Ethusiasts Push GM to Make Camaro

[Intrepidation]

DETROIT — General Motors executives say they are being inundated with e-mail messages — sometimes 300 or more in one day — from Camaro enthusiasts who are anxious to get their hands on a production version of the concept car shown in January at the North American International Auto Show.

"People will not get off Camaro," Bob Boniface, GM director of advanced design, told Inside Line. "Those people were hurt when that car went out of production, and they're letting us hear about it."

IL reported in January that GM expects to build the Camaro by 2009, according to supplier sources.

Boniface would not confirm last week's reports in a Canberra, Australia, newspaper that a task force at GM Holden is working on a production version of the Camaro concept. He said the business case for a future Camaro is still being "analyzed." Still, he was relatively upbeat about the car's future. "A lot of programs make it to the 10-yard line and get canceled," Boniface said. "But this is buildable [and] believable."

He noted that in discussions about the future Camaro, designers are "going back to the icon," the original version of the car. "The '69 Camaro," he said, "was the king of the pony cars." He added: "If it made it to production, it would look exactly like the concept. That would be the intent."

A major shift from the original would come in the future Camaro's interior, Boniface noted. "The Camaro was never known for its interior," he said. "The materials were poor and there were not comprehensive gauges. [GM Vice Chairman Bob] Lutz said the gauges looked like Westclox, a cheap production design."

What this means to you: So should we build this car that people seem to actually want? Real tough decision…

Link: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=110197

C'mon GM, build the damn thing and have a runaway hit for once! It's a no brainer!

[Variance]

Ahem...:AH-HA_wink:

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...?showtopic=8266

[Intrepidation]

Ahem...:AH-HA_wink:

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...?showtopic=8266

[AmericanMuscle]

I can't wait for its reappearance, at that time I should just have gotten out of the Air Force and be able to replace mine with a new one. I hope they bring back firebird/trans am too though because that's what I really like best, I just couldn't get one because they're a little harder to find than Camaro, same car though.

[Chicagoland]

$$ talks, fans should put down deposits for cars, show that there is a business case.

[regfootball]

yeah, folks pay $$$ for sedans. so GM will pour $$$ into making a niche car like Camaro but neglect the Malibu.

[Satty]

Duh reg, 65,000 coupes make loads more money than 350,000 sedans. Didn't you read the instructions that came with the Camaro Kool-Aid?

Enthusiasts do NOT make the majority of new car purchases, its housewives andmiddle-class working dads who gave Toyota all that money they have that allows them to sell the Prius at a loss and develop all sorts of cool technology that may need some bugs worked out, but its on the showroom floor.

[CaddyXLR-V]

yeah, folks pay $$$ for sedans.  so GM will pour $$$ into making a niche car like Camaro but neglect the Malibu.

192,000 Mustang sold. Should I name how many sedans that car sold more than?

[evok]

192,000 Mustang sold. Should I name how many sedans that car sold more than?

There is a lot more loyalty at Ford with the Mustang than the Camaro at GM. Ford is the Mustang and is a bread and butter car over there. The Camaro has been and will be still be an after thought at GM. When people think Ford, people think Mustang. When people think Camaro, well they think other things.

There is a lot more that can be said about the 64 1/2 Mustang and its effect on a generation of people than any Camaro. Ford nailed it with the new Mustang.

I do not care how much better the next Camaro will be when compared to the current Mustang and it will be but the Camaro will never touch the Mustangs sales. Not even close.

[pow]

There is a lot more loyalty at Ford with the Mustang than the Camaro at GM.  Ford is the Mustang and is a bread and butter car over there.  The Camaro has been and will be still be an after thought at GM.  When people think Ford, people think Mustang.  When people think Camaro, well they think other things.

There is a lot more that can be said about the 64 1/2 Mustang and its effect on a generation of people than any Camaro.  Ford nailed it with the new Mustang.

I do not care how much better the next Camaro will be when compared to the current Mustang and it will be but the Camaro will never touch the Mustangs sales. Not even close.

Exactly. My mom recognizes the Mustang as a Ford, the Corvette as a Chevy, the Civic as a Honda, and the Beetle as a VW, but she has no idea what the hell a Camaro is. To most people, "Camaro" isn't as iconic as GM wants to believe.

Mustang appeals to 16 y/o girls, tourists, and people with midlife crisis, in addition to just enthusiasts.

[regfootball]

Exactly. My mom recognizes the Mustang as a Ford, the Corvette as a Chevy, the Civic as a Honda, and the Beetle as a VW, but she has no idea what the hell a Camaro is. To most people, "Camaro" isn't as iconic as GM wants to believe.

Mustang appeals to 16 y/o girls, tourists, and people with midlife crisis, in addition to just enthusiasts.

Camaro is iconic if you wear gold chains.

hey i like camaros too, i just hope this camaro program isn't hurting their ability to produce much more badly needed product.

[Northstar]

The 2008 Malibu will be here in a year or so, so I think GM has their sedan coming. Whether it's going to set the world on fire, who knows, but what we've heard about it sounds impressive.

It's interesting that Detroit always seems to build "Detroit style" vehicles better than the Japanese can, but the Japanese usually build better bread-and-butter vehicles. Look at the Corvette, T900s, Mustang, F-150, Camaro (when it comes), 300, Charger, and so on. The Japanese don't build anything that can touch those. However, when it comes to your bread-and-butter family and compact cars, the Japanese always win with the Camry, Accord, Altima, Civic, Corrolla, etc.

Maybe Detroit should focus on Detroit-style vehicles. The next Impala will certainly be "Detroit-style," and so far the LX cars have been successful. Maybe Detroit needs to forget about taking sales from the Camcord with their own Camcord, and build their own style of vehicles that they're actually good at. Obviously it's not a good idea to abandon those segments, but it seems as though they have more success in other segments because the Japanese control those segments.

[ehaase]

There is a lot more loyalty at Ford with the Mustang than the Camaro at GM.  Ford is the Mustang and is a bread and butter car over there.  The Camaro has been and will be still be an after thought at GM.  When people think Ford, people think Mustang.  When people think Camaro, well they think other things.

I was ridiculed here almost 3 years ago for posting the same sentiment when people were working themselves up about a new Camaro, but I agree completely. Edited April 30, 2006 by ehaase

[ehaase]

Maybe Detroit should focus on Detroit-style vehicles. The next Impala will certainly be "Detroit-style," and so far the LX cars have been successful. Maybe Detroit needs to forget about taking sales from the Camcord with their own Camcord, and build their own style of vehicles that they're actually good at. Obviously it's not a good idea to abandon those segments, but it seems as though they have more success in other segments because the Japanese control those segments.

Absolutely correct. Maybe the new proposed CAFE rules (which appear to be based on the size of the car instead of a particular average for the entire company, if I understand them correctly) will allow Detroit to get out of markets where they are not competitive and concentrate on the cars that can make them profits. Edited April 30, 2006 by ehaase

[regfootball]

well maybe saturn is being geared up to compete with the camry crowd. but at the same time i don't think chevy should revert back to AMURCHAN iron and retro only.

[evok]

I was ridiculed here almost 3 years ago for posting the same sentiment when  people were working themselves up about a new Camaro, but I agree completely.

Yea - I am just waiting for some of the enthusiasts to see my post. I am sure I will be ridiculed soon. But heck, if the enthusisast really were that big of a factor we would not be discussing the potential RETURN of the Camaro icon.

[CaddyXLR-V]

There is a lot more loyalty at Ford with the Mustang than the Camaro at GM.  Ford is the Mustang and is a bread and butter car over there.  The Camaro has been and will be still be an after thought at GM.  When people think Ford, people think Mustang.  When people think Camaro, well they think other things.

There is a lot more that can be said about the 64 1/2 Mustang and its effect on a generation of people than any Camaro.  Ford nailed it with the new Mustang.

I do not care how much better the next Camaro will be when compared to the current Mustang and it will be but the Camaro will never touch the Mustangs sales. Not even close.

I'm not saying I disagree. Though GM needs to find a way to sell the Impala in volume off Zeta, while still being able to sell the Camaro off Zeta as well. Might as well make a wagon off Zeta and call it the Nomad. Why not add an additional 75-100k off an already shared platform?

And your point about the Mustang name, couldn't that be used for the Camry as well? Meaning no matter how good GM makes the Malibu, it will never touch the Camry sales? Just like the Accord can't beat the Camry in sales, even though it has been a better car. Hardly a reason to just give up.

[Northstar]

well maybe saturn is being geared up to compete with the camry crowd.  but at the same time i don't think chevy should revert back to AMURCHAN iron and retro only.

I agree, but it certainly doesn't need multipul vehicles going against the Camcord. Right now, Chevy has no traditional American cars. They have a imported car from Korea, a car that's comparable to a Civic, a car that's comparable to an Accord, and a car like the Avalon. There is nothing there for the typical American buyer, and the LX cars show that there IS a market for cars like that. The next Impala will address this problem, as will the Camaro, but Pontiac and Buick both need cars that aren't trying to hide there American-ness and be Japanese.

Look at every successful American car. How many of those are trying to be Japanese? How many are saying "F*** being Japanese, I'm an American car!"? Now look at every unsucessful American car and ask the same questions.

[evok]

I'm not saying I disagree. Though GM needs to find a way to sell the Impala in volume off Zeta, while still being able to sell the Camaro off Zeta as well. Might as well make a wagon off Zeta and call it the Nomad. Why not add an additional 75-100k off an already shared platform?

That is similar to something I have laid out in the past. In essence it is what they eventually will have out.

And your point about the Mustang name, couldn't that be used for the Camry as well? Meaning no matter how good GM makes the Malibu, it will never touch the Camry sales? Just like the Accord can't beat the Camry in sales, even though it has been a better car. Hardly a reason to just give up.

Besides the Corvette brand, GM's model brands have almost no equity anymore. All of Chevys names are new or are ressurections of names from a forgotten era. Forget about the other division. I have arguments for and against the alph numeric names. But that is another story/

A long time ago I posted my thesis of brand management and stated that GM does not have any brands with equity beyond the divisional names anymore.

[evok]

No one is going to ridicule you. As long as the supply of Camaros is one less than the demand their shouldn't be any problems. The Camaro was never meant to be a volume car like the Malipoo or any other mid sizer so it would be foolish to try to compare the sales. I have an inkling GM will do the same thing they did with the Kappas and limit the volume then brag they are sold out.

Personally i am not concerned about the first full year the Camaro is on the market, it's the following years that I have a problem with.

My only argument for the Camaro is that it could generated some good will for the company. Hell every time I see a Mustang I applaude Ford because it is nice to see it on the road. It is an icon done right. But I do not see the Camaro as an icon. The concept was sweet but it is still not the same thing. The Mustang is the Camry of the pony cars but the Camaro done right could have a similar but lesser effect.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I agree, but it certainly doesn't need multipul vehicles going against the Camcord. Right now, Chevy has no traditional American cars. They have a imported car from Korea, a car that's comparable to a Civic, a car that's comparable to an Accord, and a car like the Avalon. There is nothing there for the typical American buyer, and the LX cars show that there IS a market for cars like that. The next Impala will address this problem, as will the Camaro, but Pontiac and Buick both need cars that aren't trying to hide there American-ness and be Japanese.

Look at every successful American car. How many of those are trying to be Japanese? How many are saying "F*** being Japanese, I'm an American car!"? Now look at every unsucessful American car and ask the same questions.

That's kind of what I was thinking. The American automakers need to find a way to make it cool to own an American car again. Take everything that made American cars great in the past(power and great styling), and bring it back, while using the ride dynamics of a European car, and being refined like a Japanese car.

[turbo200]

That is similar to something I have laid out in the past.  In essence it is what they eventually will have out.

Besides the Corvette brand, GM's model brands have almost no equity anymore.  All of Chevys names are new or are ressurections of names from a forgotten era. Forget about the other division.  I have arguments for and against the alph numeric names.  But that is another story/

A long time ago I posted my thesis of brand management and stated that GM does not have any brands with equity beyond the divisional names anymore.

This is something I strongly agree with but I have to put it in context. In the '90's there was a lot of context left. The Japanese were up and coming, and GM still had good equity left thanks to some solid products along the way. In the 2000's and until now, they haven't had a good solid hit, or a good comparable car. Not truck, car. This has severely damaged equity. When they stopped being relevant is some time after they stopped producing relevant product. The product situation has been dire for some time. Poor in every sense, and nothing worth the price of entry. Nothing that could command a premium hurts big time. Like the guy that went on a test drive with me today, "Americans [products] are rubbish." Unfortunately, that was succinct and correct in too many ways to begin to dissect.

[turbo200]

Personally i am not concerned about the first full year the Camaro is on the market, it's the following years that I have a problem with.

My only argument for the Camaro is that it could generated some good will for the company.  Hell every time I see a Mustang I applaude Ford because it is nice to see it on the road.  It is an icon done right.  But I do not see the Camaro as an icon.  The concept was sweet but it is still not the same thing.  The Mustang is the Camry of the pony cars but the Camaro done right could have a similar but lesser effect.

Okay, I was going to argue your earlier post about Camaro and its impact. But I can see your projections are in solid territory, though I don't ultimately agree with the numerical value you've given. This is the way I see it, just humor me. Camaro in the context of having no world-class sedan is a bad situation. That is why I think, as usual with GM, Camaro is coming at a seemingly bad time for the company. To have no sedan that can even be considered amongst the top, and to be left so far behind in the biggest category, is humiliation without a doubt. This is the context of why Camaro is bad. Camaro is an icon, will make an impact, and will begin a tide of change back towards GM products, if only begrudgingly because of good style and value. Camaro has a great impact, but it is no Mustang. Camaro is however a great looking sports coupe, something to compete with 3-series, truthfully, albeit at a lower price point and with lesser content. But on a driving level, could begin to be considered as a, distant, but still significant, ompetitor, to that car, because of power and American style. I think it will co-exist nicely with the Mustang, stang at around its current levels, or some less, and camaro at around 150k sales, after first year demand. This is of course pending reasonable gas prices, call me for a reevaluation if prices reach and level at $4. Then all hell breaks loose.

[regfootball]

That's kind of what I was thinking. The American automakers need to find a way to make it cool to own an American car again. Take everything that made American cars great in the past(power and great styling), and bring it back, while using the ride dynamics of a European car, and being refined like a Japanese car.

^

[evok]

This is something I strongly agree with but I have to put it in context. In the '90's there was a lot of context left. The Japanese were up and coming, and GM still had good equity left thanks to some solid products along the way. In the 2000's and until now, they haven't had a good solid hit, or a good comparable car. Not truck, car. This has severely damaged equity. When they stopped being relevant is some time after they stopped producing relevant product. The product situation has been dire for some time. Poor in every sense, and nothing worth the price of entry. Nothing that could command a premium hurts big time. Like the guy that went on a test drive with me today, "Americans [products] are rubbish." Unfortunately, that was succinct and correct in too many ways to begin to dissect.

I am heading to bed shortly but I want to answer this post. PM me if I forget. I do have something to add and share.

[thegriffon]

There is still a limited core of American cars that have a global brand equity. not much, and beside the Corvette and Mustang, almost no current models. Charger has a little, Camaro, Chevelle and Nova more. Pontiac, well GTO and maybe Tempest. Certainly no Mercurys, no other Dodges, no Chryslers, no Lincolns and no Cadillac other than perhaps an early El Dorado (barely). Firebird? Most people think it's called a Trans Am if they can remember it at all. The rest have either no equity or worse, negative equity (baggage). Which is not to say there isn't a history there which can be mined if you do it right. The brands themselves are a different matter. Everbody knows what a Jeep is, even if it's a generic SUV. Chevy and Ford have a lot, as do Cadillac and to a lesser extent even Lincoln, Buick and finally Dodge (if only trucks). With he right product and marketing GM has a lot of potential to build up their brands, but that requires a lot more revenue per vehicle than they get at the moment. The commonly voiced solution is to cut the number of models and brands, but that only cuts the total revenue as well, and doesn't solve the problem. GM's globalisation drive, selling the same model worldwide is a big part of the solution, but it only works for Chevy, Cadillac, Saab, Hummer and to a lesser extent Saturn/Opel and Buick. Pontiac is left out in the cold, the only answer to cust costs and boost transaction prices and hope that one doesn't work too much against the other. I'll give credit too them , they're certainly trying, with a lot more money being spent on development, but it will be a tough call for every program, and you folks will have to stop baulking at prices that get closer to what Toyota and Honda and for God's sake even Hyundai charge for a similar product. With each new, better model prices will have to rise, a lot, or GM will never be able to match Toyota in develoipment and marketing and just fade away.

[evok]

Okay, I was going to argue your earlier post about Camaro and its impact. But I can see your projections are in solid territory, though I don't ultimately agree with the numerical value you've given. This is the way I see it, just humor me. Camaro in the context of having no world-class sedan is a bad situation. That is why I think, as usual with GM, Camaro is coming at a seemingly bad time for the company. To have no sedan that can even be considered amongst the top, and to be left so far behind in the biggest category, is humiliation without a doubt. This is the context of why Camaro is bad. Camaro is an icon, will make an impact, and will begin a tide of change back towards GM products, if only begrudgingly because of good style and value. Camaro has a great impact, but it is no Mustang. Camaro is however a great looking sports coupe, something to compete with 3-series, truthfully, albeit at a lower price point and with lesser content. But on a driving level, could begin to be considered as a, distant, but still significant, ompetitor, to that car, because of power and American style. I think it will co-exist nicely with the Mustang, stang at around its current levels, or some less, and camaro at around 150k sales, after first year demand. This is of course pending reasonable gas prices, call me for a reevaluation if prices reach and level at $4. Then all hell breaks loose.

Since I did not post any estimates I will post that GM should tool up to 100k Camaros a year. Anymore would be a waste of money after demand settles down to equilibrium with annual sales around 70 - 90k.

The Mustang is the Mustang to Ford. Ford will also deal the vehicle more than GM because of its significance to Ford's volume. The Camaro is a nice vehicle to have but it is not as a significant program as the Mustang is to Ford. Also, the Mustang is an icon to the brand as I have stated. That is something the Camaro is not but next to the Vette it is the closest they have. The Camaro and Firebird have not been on the market for years now goes to show just that. I would put the Camaro in the same league as the Thunderbird name.

Also I would not compare the Camaro to the BMW 3. Come on Turbo!

The Camaro should do well and be profitable much the same way the LX cars are for DCX. GM will be able to run the price from $20 - $40k depeding on options and pt configurations. Even still the public has a short attention span and we are beginning to see LX sales get soft. Even the Mustage is a lot softer than the sales indicate. Ford is dealing them right now.

So I estimate a good number for the Camaro is in the 100k area on the high side. That still is a good number to add to the bottom line.

[bowtie_dude]

I hope the next Camaro is a decent looking, unretro car. The concept looked good, but honestly, I'd much rather have a nice, modern-looking car.

[evok]

This is something I strongly agree with but I have to put it in context. In the '90's there was a lot of context left. The Japanese were up and coming, and GM still had good equity left thanks to some solid products along the way. In the 2000's and until now, they haven't had a good solid hit, or a good comparable car. Not truck, car. This has severely damaged equity. When they stopped being relevant is some time after they stopped producing relevant product. The product situation has been dire for some time. Poor in every sense, and nothing worth the price of entry. Nothing that could command a premium hurts big time. Like the guy that went on a test drive with me today, "Americans [products] are rubbish." Unfortunately, that was succinct and correct in too many ways to begin to dissect.

Really with few exceptions most of the product from the big 3 have been irrelevant to the larger market over the last 20-30 years.

Brands like Lincoln, Mercury, Buick and Pontiac have had no significant product in the market since 2000 relative to the competition. 2000 was the year where these brands lost value. That is why they are damaged brands today. There has been nothing to get excited about. Years ago, those brands sold product on the strength of their dealers and equity alone no matter how questionable their product was, but now with the heated competition, they do not stand out.

All four of those brands need a Cadillac style make over and investment. The problem is a lack of money and resources.

Lincoln up until the late 80s was always a niche player in the luxury market. Their sales were in the 60-80k vehicle range.

That compared to Cadillac selling in the high 200k.

Mercury was always a tarted up Ford, and now Lincoln is selling just rebadged Fords, next to Mercurys.

Buick and Pontiac's images were set in the 50s and 60s. They have been running on the publics good will since then.

Today there is very little brand equity left for the brands I just mentioned. With luxury brands going downscale and entry brands moving upscale - there is little room left for the middle brands. They are getting squeezed out of the market.

In many ways an OEM like Toyota is a poster child for the Smale/Zarella brand managment done right. Each of Toyotas vehicles are a brand to themselves. They have reached a significance in the market where Camry, Avalon, Corolla are brands with meaning.

The same can not be said for the US OEMS. The problem I see is that not only have the big 3s individual models lost their relevance, the brands themselves have lost their value, significance and focus to the market.

To correct that will take discipline, luck, money and a forgiving public.

I will close with this example. When the original Fiero was first released, Pontiac sold 100,000 2 seaters. That could not be duplicated today. Think about that number 100,000 Fieros! That is a reflection on the good will Pontiac had given that the product was questionable and the Fiero was a limited appeal in theory 2 seat vehicle.

Edited May 2, 2006 by evok

[longtooth]

I'm not saying I disagree. Though GM needs to find a way to sell the Impala in volume off Zeta, while still being able to sell the Camaro off Zeta as well. Might as well make a wagon off Zeta and call it the Nomad. Why not add an additional 75-100k off an already shared platform?

And your point about the Mustang name, couldn't that be used for the Camry as well? Meaning no matter how good GM makes the Malibu, it will never touch the Camry sales? Just like the Accord can't beat the Camry in sales, even though it has been a better car. Hardly a reason to just give up.

Impala, GTO, Camaro will be built together at the reviving Oshawa assembly complex. expect to see a "manhattan project" type push to make this happen beginning (what time is it?)...shortly.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Really with few exceptions most of the product from the big 3 have been irrelevant to the larger market over the last 20-30 years.

Brands like Lincoln, Mercury, Buick and Pontiac have had no significant product in the market since 2000 relative to the competition.  2000 was the year where these brands lost value.  That is why they are damaged brands today.  There has been nothing to get excited about.  Years ago, those brands sold product on the strength of their dealers and equity alone no matter how questionable their product was, but now with the heated competition, they do not stand out.

All four of those brands need a Cadillac style make over and investment.  The problem is a lack of money and resources.

Lincoln up until the late 80s was always a niche player in the luxury market.  Their sales were in the 60-80k vehicle range.

That compared to Cadillac selling in the high 200k.

Mercury was always a tarted up Ford, and now Lincoln is selling just rebadged Fords, next to Mercurys.

Buick and Pontiac's images were set in the 50s and 60s.  They have been running on the publics good will since then. 

Today there is very little brand equity left for the brands I just mentioned.  With luxury brands going downscale and entry brands moving upscale - there is little room left for the middle brands.  They are getting squeezed out of the market.

In many ways an OEM like Toyota is a poster child for the Smale/Zarella brand managment done right. Each of Toyotas vehicles are a brand to themselves.  They have reached a significance in the market where Camry, Avalon, Corolla are brands with meaning.

The same can not be said for the US OEMS.  The problem I see is that not only have the big 3s individual models lost their relevance, the brands themselves have lost their value, significance and focus to the market.

To correct that will take discipline, luck, money and a forgiving public.

I will close with this example.  When the original Fiero was first released, Pontiac sold 100,000 2 seaters.  That could not be duplicated today.  Think about that number 100,000 Fieros!

Great post! Yeah, as far as the middle/luxury brands go, I see exactly what you mean. Back around 1930, Buick sprouted off the Marquette series; Oldsmobile, the Viking, and Cadillac, the LaSalle. The Viking and Marquette, junior versions of their respective divisions' main cars, died after only a couple years, though LaSalle wasn't dropped until after the 1940 model year, replaced by a smaller/less-expensive Cadillac. If it means anything, that's just a way of saying history repeats itself, so don't be surprised if it happens again-unfortunately, it happened with Oldsmobile, and if Buick loses its grip, that might well happen. There is nothing at all compelling about Pontiac right now-the G6 coupe styling looks okay, but there's really nothing else positive I have to say about that car. Torrent is somewhat popular, but other than Solstice and G6, all the other Pontiacs are needless and doomed rebadges not worth the minor styling changes and slightly higher prices than a Chevrolet. And ever since the expansion of the 1986 Caprice lineup (after Olds Delta 88/Buick LeSabre switched to front-drive and Impala was retitled the base Caprice), Chevy has been moving upscale in a sense ever since, IMO.

[Intrepidation]

Since I did not post any estimates I will post that GM should tool up to 100k Camaros a year.  Anymore would be a waste of money after demand settles down to equilibrium with annual sales around 70 - 90k. 

The Mustang is the Mustang to Ford.  Ford will also deal the vehicle more than GM because of its significance to Ford's volume.  The Camaro is a nice vehicle to have but it is not as a significant program as the Mustang is to Ford.  Also, the Mustang is an icon to the brand as I have stated.  That is something the Camaro is not but next to the Vette it is the closest they have.  The Camaro and Firebird have not been on the market for years now goes to show just that.  I would put the Camaro in the same league as the Thunderbird name.

Also I would not compare the Camaro to the BMW 3.  Come on Turbo!

The Camaro should do well and be profitable much the same way the LX cars are for DCX.  GM will be able to run the price from $20 - $40k depeding on options and pt configurations.  Even still the public has a short attention span and we are beginning to see LX sales get soft.  Even the Mustage is a lot softer than the sales indicate.  Ford is dealing them right now. 

So I estimate a good number for the Camaro is in the 100k area on the high side.  That still is a good number to add to the bottom line.

Good post, but the only thing I can't agree with is the LX sales. Last I checked, the Charger had it's best month so far, as did the 300. Both cars are selling as good or better than they were. The Magnum sales are soft, which is understandabe, America is still high on SUVs, and doesn't want to trade them in for the stigma of a wagon, however cool looking and good it may be.

Chrysler's sales are downs somewhat, but i would atribute that to slmping sales of the Durango, and slow sales of the outdated midsizers. When the Sebring/Avenger debut, sales should pick up nicely, so long as the cars are good (and so far, they look it). The LX's will remain ston sales I think, namely because of their unique styling, value, and performance.