Chevrolet News:Just Launched Chevrolet SS Already Threatened with Extinction

[Z-06]

Yes, it has to be Omega. Car and Driver had said the bits of the Zeta platform would be borrowed to for Omega, back when it ran a special on Elmiraj.

[ehaase]

Other than Camaro, Corvette, and Cadillac, I doubt GM will sell or produce any other RWD cars in my lifetime, and I am almost 50. I don't believe this Car and Driver article.

[GMTruckGuy74]

If it is just a matter of price, maybe the question is why GM doesn't import an Chevrolet SS with cloth seats, no navigation, no premium audio, smaller allow wheels, cheaper tires, etc. and sell it for $35K. I am sure they can, there are Commodores outfitted like that. They just think that the SS's market is niche enough and trying to deck out a few different trims simply isn't worth the effort.

For me, a decontented SS is not on my desired list; I want this:

I prefer the look and elegance of the longer Zeta. Sportier cars should be smaller, like the SS. I don't want sporty per say; I want entry level luxury/touring.

[Camino LS6]

What we all want is choice - the very thing we are denied in increasing fashion year after year.

[Robert Hall]

If it is just a matter of price, maybe the question is why GM doesn't import an Chevrolet SS with cloth seats, no navigation, no premium audio, smaller allow wheels, cheaper tires, etc. and sell it for $35K. I am sure they can, there are Commodores outfitted like that. They just think that the SS's market is niche enough and trying to deck out a few different trims simply isn't worth the effort.

For me, a decontented SS is not on my desired list; I want this:

I prefer the look and elegance of the longer Zeta. Sportier cars should be smaller, like the SS. I don't want sporty per say; I want entry level luxury/touring.

I like the looks of the Holden Caprice V..would make a nice Caprice Classic here...I like its front end much more than the overwrought SS front end.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Blake Noble]

Here's how I see the Holden Commodore conundrum playing out. However educated my guess may be, it's still just a guess but one I hope comes to pass all the same. It's a hell of a mess to unravel, so stick with me and let's try to be optimistic.

Let's break it down.

• The next-generation Malibu moves back up in size closer or precisely to the circa 2008 to 2012 model to properly address the size criticism plaguing the current model. The next-generation Malibu will certainly be sold down under as a Holden and will likely serve as the defacto replacement for the basic Commodore Evoke models. It will not carry the Commodore name and continue to be called Malibu ( ... hopefully, anyway) . Supporting evidence for this claim can be found in the Middle Eastern market where the current Malibu has already replaced the Commodore-based Lumina. The current gen Malibu is also already built in China by GM Shanghai (and, if I'm not mistaken, Australian market Malibus come from there) so if the next-generation model is to serve as a replacement for the current Commodore in Evoke trim, it would make sense the next-gen "Commodore" (meaning Malibu) would be built there in the future and sent downstream to Australia as per the rumors currently circulating.
• The next-generation Commodore arrives on a decontented version of the Omega platform (aka "Zeta II") that will serve as the basis for Cadillac's flagship model. A Ute will likely not appear this go-around. Perhaps it's possible that, since the Malibu is likely to grow in the future, the Chevrolet SS/Holden Commodore will merge with the next-generation Chevrolet Impala so that Chevrolet doesn't essentially have two flagship sedans. That's what makes sense to me anyway, because building the next-gen Impala on a rear-drive platform is the only way I can see GM effectively eliminating the overlap they delt with when the Malibu and Impala were close to the same size. It also gives them a better entry into the market for law-enforcement vehicles. It will be built in North America, possibly Oshawa.

That's just how I see this situation playing out, I dunno.

Edited December 19, 2013 by black-knight

[Drew Dowdell]

It's a reasonable guess. Additionally, since the XTS is rumored to be a One and Done car, the only other car it shares with is the current Impala. So, if Cadillac goes with Omega first then Chevrolet follows a year later with an Impala on the same platform, it would mimic the release schedule of the two current cars. Both the Cadillac XTS and Impala should have no problems running right up to 2017 or 2018... which is a familiar date

[GMTruckGuy74]

I saw this 2013 Caprice PPV Detective (9C3) car at Carlisle in June at the All-GM Nationals show; the person happens to live in the town next to me in NJ but I have yet to see the car cruising around:

This is another reason why I desire this car so much - with some simple add-ons from the GM parts bin this car looks awesome!!

This 2012 or 2013 Caprice was parked near the green one; more basic/factory than the green one (owner just bought it that week, I was told), but I do like the look of the standard wheel covers:

[Robert Hall]

I like the exterior styling of the Caprice PPV, but the interior is too plain and gray...too bad we can't get a consumer version here w/ an LTZ interior trim.

[Blake Noble]

The Caprice is popping up on the used market and I think dealers will sell leftover inventory to civilians to clear it out.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Here in southern New Jersey, I've searched many Chevy dealer's inventories (online) for used 2011-2013 Caprice PPVs with no luck (I check AutoTrader and would have to go to GA or IA). The only dealer in my area that was stocking both 9C1 and 9C3 Caprices closed in January this year; no other surrounding Chevy dealers (including the ones with large Fleet departments) are stocking Caprices in their inventory. I was hoping to find a dealer with some 9C3 models back in October/November with no luck - firgured they might find a loop-hole by the end of the year to move the product. 2014 isn't looking any better for finding local dealers with Caprices actually on the lot - at least the helps to open the door for discussion.

Hence why I asked if anyone in the "know" had info on what could possibly be done with the Caprice for retail sales. I'm seeing more PPVs in use in both local and state PD fleets, but the Charger, Explorer and Taurus (aka Interceptors) make up the majority of new PD fleets. If GM wanted to I'm sure they could unload a lot of unsold PPVs into the retail market with some parts-bin add-ons like the green one above shows (the owner showed me all of the Holden-sources parts he installed on the Caprice since he bought it).

[GMTruckGuy74]

I like the exterior styling of the Caprice PPV, but the interior is too plain and gray...too bad we can't get a consumer version here w/ an LTZ interior trim.

I'm sure a North American retail model would have an interior similar to the Holden Caprice V interior:

[Drew Dowdell]

That's the Chevy SS interior in a mirror.

[SAmadei]

The only dealer in my area that was stocking both 9C1 and 9C3 Caprices closed in January this year;

Sidebar: Was this Classic Chevrolet? A friend drove by recently and told me it was all closed up and the lot was empty. Almost bought a Torrent there.

Seems like almost every car dealership I have come close to buying a car at is history now. Kerbeck is the only place I deal with (parts) that has thrived.

[Blake Noble]

Here's how I see the Holden Commodore conundrum playing out. However educated my guess may be, it's still just a guess but one I hope comes to pass all the same. It's a hell of a mess to unravel, so stick with me and let's try to be optimistic.

Let's break it down.

• The next-generation Malibu moves back up in size closer or precisely to the circa 2008 to 2012 model to properly address the size criticism plaguing the current model. The next-generation Malibu will certainly be sold down under as a Holden and will likely serve as the defacto replacement for the basic Commodore Evoke models. It will not carry the Commodore name and continue to be called Malibu ( ... hopefully, anyway) . Supporting evidence for this claim can be found in the Middle Eastern market where the current Malibu has already replaced the Commodore-based Lumina. The current gen Malibu is also already built in China by GM Shanghai (and, if I'm not mistaken, Australian market Malibus come from there) so if the next-generation model is to serve as a replacement for the current Commodore in Evoke trim, it would make sense the next-gen "Commodore" (meaning Malibu) would be built there in the future and sent downstream to Australia as per the rumors currently circulating.

• The next-generation Commodore arrives on a decontented version of the Omega platform (aka "Zeta II") that will serve as the basis for Cadillac's flagship model. A Ute will likely not appear this go-around. Perhaps it's possible that, since the Malibu is likely to grow in the future, the Chevrolet SS/Holden Commodore will merge with the next-generation Chevrolet Impala so that Chevrolet doesn't essentially have two flagship sedans. That's what makes sense to me anyway, because building the next-gen Impala on a rear-drive platform is the only way I can see GM effectively eliminating the overlap they delt with when the Malibu and Impala were close to the same size. It also gives them a better entry into the market for law-enforcement vehicles. It will be built in North America, possibly Oshawa.

That's just how I see this situation playing out, I dunno.

Well, someone better pick up that phone because I called it.

Full story at 11.

[Drew Dowdell]

eh, he just made the same guess that you did..... it's a reasonable guess, but that is no official announcement from GM there..

[Blake Noble]

eh, he just made the same guess that you did..... it's a reasonable guess, but that is no official announcement from GM there..

The only official announcement from GM so far is that GM Australia is ceasing producting there as late as 2017, if not earlier. GM hasn't outright said what's in store for the Commodore's future yet; there's still a lot of housekeeping to do before that. However, I don't see GM just walking away from what makes the current Commodore a Commodore. True, it was number four in sales last year, but it was still the best selling large car there. It beat the Toyota Camry by a fair margin and only lost to the smaller Corolla by just a few thousand units. Ford's Falcon didn't even register anywhere near the Commodore's sales numbers.

[Drew Dowdell]

And selling nearly as many Commodores as Toyota sells Corollas, with the substantial difference in price, pulls in quite a bit of money.

I wouldn't be surprised if Holden made more revenue on Commodore than Toyota did on Corolla even though Corolla sold more.

[hyperv6]

Well the SS is not doomed as GM stated not long after it was announced that it would only be around 2-3 years and a new car was already in the works. The time line also lines up with the new Camaro's arrival. Add to this that GM has stated and has encouraged to say the SS is like a 4 door Camaro.

GM would have not put this car in NASCAR just for a couple years for a 4K unit car. There are more unannounced long term plans and that is what we will have to wait for. GM could have waited will the car went into production here but they needed the car in NASCAR now so a token import of the car was in order to make it legal.

The car will be an Alpha here and will be an even better car with the new platform. Also we will see more options and more engines when it arrives.

There is a plan and we will see more to come. But the reality here is that this is not the Caprice of old where it was the volume car for GM as these full size cars have become more and more a niche model. The MPG, Price and size are not what the general public wants or can afford anymore. Cars like the Cruze and trucks needed the attention first as they pay the bills and make it possible for lower volume cars to happen.

Even when up to production the SS will never sell many more than 30K units in NA and will export 20-30K down under. Add in the production of a shared platform Camaro and you will have a pretty busy plant.

I also expect a version of the Camaro adapted to a Monaro.

The fact is most companies could easily survive with any car that does not sell more than 100K units. Those models under 100K units are just added income and volume. So while they help they are secondary in value to the higher volumes.

.

[Blake Noble]

Hmmmm ...

 

 

I also expect a version of the Camaro adapted to a Monaro.

 

You don't say? Interesting ... hmmmmm ...

[smk4565]

Toyota plans to make a sedan version of the GT86/Subaru BRZ, and add a 2.0 turbo engine to it. That could be interesting as it is a light weight car to begin with, and supposed they utilize one of the Subaru WRX engines in that. That would put a small cheap RWD sedan on the market.

My prediction is GM keeps the RWD cars to Cadillac, Camaro and Corvette. I like RWD and wish they made more rwd cars, but I just don't see them doing it, the bean counters lover FWD products that you can make 4 versions of (see W-bodies, epsilon 1 and 2, and Lambda as examples). Maybe the Malibu should go to rear drive, no one wants the fwd one and it gets clobbered by the competition, Chevy never will build a better fwd mid-size sedan than Toyota/Honda and likely never beat the Sonata/Fusion/Altima, so why not just go rwd and attack it like that.

[ehaase]

I agree with the first two sentences of the second paragraph in the post above. There will never be another RWD Chevrolet sedan after the SS. I was on C&G over 10 years ago when AH-HA gave us the big announcement of GM planning a big new program of RWD cars to replace most of its large and mid size lineup. We all know what became of that.

I regret that GM merely updated the W and G bodies during 2004 through 2006 because RWD Grand Prix, Lacrosse, Impala, DTS, and Lucerne would have succeeded then, before the Great Recession. Today, the mass market only cares about FWD compact and mid size sedans and crossovers and pickup trucks. I just wonder how profitable the RWD Cadillacs of the last 10 years have been.

As far as converting the Malibu to RWD, I have read that one former Ford executive (I think it was Chris Theodore) proposed a sedan based upon the Mustang because Ford could never compete with Camry/Accord, etc. However, that was proven wrong because the Fusion has succeeded. The next generation FWD Malibu will succeed with better styling and a roomier interior.

I am very confident that the next generation Impala will continue to use a LWB version of whatever platform the Malibu has and will not use the RWD Omega platform.

[smk4565]

Chevy hasn't competed with the Accord/Camry in 25 years, I don't see why the next Malibu will be any different. What magic formula will they use that they didn't use in 2004, 2008, or 2013. They make an all new Malibu every 5 years and they still fall short. The Impala looks good and is roomy, and I like the interior also, but it is also in a segment with few competitors, and a shrinking segment.

[Blake Noble]

I was on C&G over 10 years ago when AH-HA gave us the big announcement of GM planning a big new program of RWD cars to replace most of its large and mid size lineup. We all know what became of that.

Huh? I remember the Great $h!storm too and I don't think it was quite that long ago. Circa '06 maybe?

Regardless, AH-HA's information wasn't incorrect. When the VE Commodore neared completion, GM North America began investigating how to use GM Australia's global rear-drive platform (aka Zeta) for cars outside of domestic production for the Australian market and the exportation thereof. The Buick Velite was one of those studies, as was the GMC Denali XT and original Chevrolet Camaro concept. They were also looking into replacing the Chevrolet Impala with a rear-drive model and introducing a flagship model for Cadillac, all using some version of the VE's platform. The 2008 financial crisis halted these plans, with only the Pontiac G8 and Chevrolet Camaro squeaking out. A year later, in 2009, GM went bankrupt and the rest is history.

Well, except I would like to point out that GM would have likely picked those studies back up if it wasn't for government influence (see Pontiac, for example) and possible corporate infighting.

Edited December 23, 2013 by black-knight

[ehaase]

I don't think AH-HA was incorrect, but I think GM made a huge error updating the W and G bodies in the 2004 to 2006 timeframe instead of having RWD replacements. The economy was healthier (or pumped up thanks to Greenspan's bubble and Bush's tax cuts and deficits) and RWD cars would have been a big hit at the time.

[Blake Noble]

I don't think AH-HA was incorrect, but I think GM made a huge error updating the W and G bodies in the 2004 to 2006 timeframe instead of having RWD replacements. The economy was healthier (or pumped up thanks to Greenspan's bubble and Bush's tax cuts and deficits) and RWD cars would have been a big hit at the time.

I'll agree with you that GM should have put the W-Body and G-Body front-drive large-car platforms out to pasture long before 2004. The W-Body platform especially is the perfect amalgam of what was wrong with pre-bankruptcy General Motors and the cars they were building.

It wasn't that GM hadn't put the cards on the table before the early and mid-2000s rolled around to replace those platforms with rear-drive cars. In fact, GM had flirted with the idea of introducing new rear-drive cars by the turn of the 21st century during the mid-90s (see the Buick XP2000 and Chevrolet Intimidator concept cars). As always, though, they managed to warm their feet at the last moment, and wound up at the party by the time the beer had almost run out and the bedrooms were all occupied.

GM didn't leave itself much of an option, I'm afraid. When the Global Rear-Drive platform finally became whole, that was around 2004 and GM North America didn't start seriously investiagating using it until probably early 2005. I think we all know what happened soon after. As much as I can criticize GM for keeping the W-Body cars around for longer than I've been alive, they really had no other choice by the time the last W-Body cars rolled out in the mid-2000s.

Edited December 25, 2013 by black-knight

[ZL-1]

The Commmodore going FWD rumour is coming on strong again, but until it's confirmed, it's just that: a rumour. If the issue is strong AUD exchange rates, a RWD Commodore can still be built elsewhere and exported to AUS, and a NA Chevrolet SS can still be made. The big issue is how will the Holden faithful react to an imported Commodore...

Credit to GM regarding the timing of the announcement: they followed Ford on the decision to close manufacturing in AUS and can basically say "the guys across the street are to blame; it's because of them the supply chain is no longer sustainable making Holden manufacturing unprofitable; blah, blah, blah"...

[Drew Dowdell]

It's just suspicious to me that the death of Zeta, the birth of Omega, the first big refresh of Alpha, and the end of the current Epsilon II cars all happens right around the same time. The long and short of it is that GM can go in either direction for any car on the current platforms and not really screw up the timeline.

[GMTruckGuy74]

The only dealer in my area that was stocking both 9C1 and 9C3 Caprices closed in January this year;

Sidebar: Was this Classic Chevrolet? A friend drove by recently and told me it was all closed up and the lot was empty. Almost bought a Torrent there.

Seems like almost every car dealership I have come close to buying a car at is history now. Kerbeck is the only place I deal with (parts) that has thrived.

Yes, it was Classic Chevrolet in Moorestown/Maple Shade, NJ. Closed at the end of January, demolished by the end of November - it's just an empty lot right now. A Super Wawa is slated to be built in its place, with room on the pad for a fast food joint to be added too. No construction started as yet, but it's been in the local papers pretty heavy the past couple of months so I'd say it will happen soon.

[ZL-1]

It's just suspicious to me that the death of Zeta, the birth of Omega, the first big refresh of Alpha, and the end of the current Epsilon II cars all happens right around the same time. The long and short of it is that GM can go in either direction for any car on the current platforms and not really screw up the timeline.

I'd say the basic design is pretty much locked in for a 2016 debut...

[Drew Dowdell]

probably

[ZL-1]

What I mean is that the next Commodore is already locked into an architecture... I think it will be RWD, but I admit it's 50% guessing and 50% wishful thinking...

[Drew Dowdell]

in that case, the rumors of a FWD Commodore are pretty strong.