Massachusetts proposes taxing by miles driven

[balthazar]

Legislation (H.B. 3142) to establish a pilot program to impose a vehicle mileage user fee administered by the Department of Transportation was introduced in Massachusetts. This bill is intended to supplement the gas tax and implement alternative ways to raise transportation revenue for the state. Under the bill, the Department must report to the legislature on the feasibility of permanently assessing a vehicle mileage user fee. The pilot program would include at least 1,000 drivers of trucks, passenger and commercial vehicles. These drivers would have on-board vehicle-mileage-counting equipment installed on their vehicles which can report the number of miles traveled. Payments would be collected from participants.

[G. David Felt]

Washington state has established a review board to study the possibility of going to miles taxed instead of a gas tax. This would apply to all vehicles regardless of the type of propulsion system. Personally I think it could be a better way to go and drop the crazy gas tax which Washington is one of the 5 highest in the nation.

Suck for Mass peeps as you are in essence being double taxed. One or the other not both.

[Drew Dowdell]

Because we haven't raised the gas tax in forever and because electric vehicles (of which I'm sure there are many there) don't pay the usage tax via gas purchases.

[Drew Dowdell]

The problem I have with this is: Why should a Nissan Sentra (2,832) pay the same tax per mile as a Nissan Armada (5,500)?

[jvcmike]

Only electric car drivers should be doing this, because gas powered cars get it at the pump

[Robert Hall]

Definitely should be one or the other, but a consumption tax like we have now seems the most viable...the mileage one, esp. if it requires special hardware, seems too costly to implement.

[G. David Felt]

I would like to see all Gas Tax go away and a move to Mileage tax. Cost per year is based on driving 15,000 miles

Auto Class Tax

0 - 3000lbs - $.05 per mile = $750.00

3001 - 5000lbs - $.075 per mile = $1125.00

5001 - 7500lbs - $.10 per mile = $1500.00

7501 - 15,000lbs - $.125 per mile = $1875.00

Commercial Class tax

15,000 - 50,000lbs - $.15 per mile = $2250.00

50,001lbs - unlimited $.20 per mile = $3000

Flat rate for GOV vehicles

$1000 per auto up to 15,000lbs

$1500 per commercial class auto

Remember that this could go up or down based on how much you drive. So people that only drive 3-5K miles a year would pay considerably less. I also feel the exemption that City, county and state vehicles get is wrong, they put wear and tear on the roads and should have to help pay for that. I feel many Fire and Police departments allow the employees to drive department auto's at tax payers expense calling it a perk of the job. This does not exist in many private industry jobs and should not exist in the gov sector. All people should get to the job before driving a company, gov supplied auto. I believe this would greatly reduce run away cost from departments that allow even a secretary to have a tax payer supplied auto and gas card.

[Drew Dowdell]

in your "auto class" Are there any Autos that clock in over 7500lbs?

[balthazar]

3001 - 5000lbs - $.075 per mile = $1125.00

5001 - 7500lbs - $.10 per mile = $1500.00

whatwhatWHAT?? I pay about $110/yr in state & Fed fuel tax, I need that to jump to $1500 like I need a 4-ton meteorite to smash my truck flat.

And Jersey spends more/mile in road maintenance than any other state IIRC- you would only find zero support for something like that here!

Those amounts are insanely higher than even the highest state fuel tax. If I lived in Wash State, I'd pay around $310. You are just begging for abuse & corruption with that level of a revenue gusher.

[G. David Felt]

in your "auto class" Are there any Autos that clock in over 7500lbs?

Hi Drew, I use auto loosely so that it also includes SUV's and trucks. So yes GMC 2500 truck would be in the 7500lbs class as would a Denali XL or Suburban or Escalade ESV I believe would also be in that class.

[G. David Felt]

3001 - 5000lbs - $.075 per mile = $1125.00

5001 - 7500lbs - $.10 per mile = $1500.00

whatwhatWHAT?? I pay about $110/yr in state & Fed fuel tax, I need that to jump to $1500 like I need a 4-ton meteorite to smash my truck flat.

And Jersey spends more/mile in road maintenance than any other state IIRC- you would only find zero support for something like that here!

Those amounts are insanely higher than even the highest state fuel tax. If I lived in Wash State, I'd pay around $310. You are just begging for abuse & corruption with that level of a revenue gusher.

I realize that these might be high and probably could even be adjusted down. I just put together a starting point of what a Mileage tax system would be like. So even if we cut the rates in half, I think it is still a far better way to go than fuel tax.

This makes it a pay as you go system rather than the Milk you as you buy gas.

[balthazar]

They are not 'perhaps' high, they are indisputably high. Even cutting them in half would raise -for example- my fuel taxes around 700%.
While I can see the point of mileage-based rather than gallon based, we have to come up with realistic, non-penalizing rates instead of hammering the populous at large. Big Gov't doesn't need another new, fat revenue stream to plunder & piss away.

I realize (hope!!) you are primarily suggesting a tiered system, but to even put those numbers in there... you're just going to frighten off any support you might hope to garner.

[regfootball]

The problem I have with this is: Why should a Nissan Sentra (2,832) pay the same tax per mile as a Nissan Armada (5,500)?

EXACTLY

for a guy like me who puts about 90 miles round trip on a day, some days 150 miles, this is particular could be bonecrushing. This could really kill job mobility, and hurt business that have lots of employees in fleet cars.

Aside from the big brother aspect and the fact that the government has NO BUSINESS keeping track of how many miles I drive a year.

This type of stuff stifles the employment market. When the housing market blew apart and people were trapped in their houses (and some still are) and can't move, at least you still have the option of driving a distance to a job to make a living. Your creating a punitive environment for people to go far out to find more and better work if need be for making a go for yourself.

[Robert Hall]

A consumption based tax still makes more sense than a mileage based, IMO.

[G. David Felt]

The mileage based system has been heavily discussed here in Washington state and what I threw out was what some are looking at. While I can see the merits of both a consumption or mileage system. There should not be both. For pure EV's, it would make sense to have these auto's taxed by miles so they pay their share of road costs.

[loki]

this would hurt the poor. because budgeting long term is harder to plan for.

i agree the fuel tax should be a % instead of a flat rate, but that's where inflation will hurt the poor AGAIN.

the bad thing is, milage out side of the state is still charged to you. so this, at face value has 1 huge drawback. ...it's like income tax and sales tax... living in that state you get dinged 2x.

a gas tax is the best way to solve this. and if plug ins get more popular... ding them on their energy bill tax rates.....?

[Blake Noble]

this would hurt the poor. because budgeting long term is harder to plan for.

This. So much f@#king this.

I'm sick and tired of automakers and industry pundits, month after month, belching out, "Blah, blah, gen y hates cars and doesn't buy new ones and probably maybe doesn't buy used, blah, blah. Damn kids are too lazy to work to buy a car and too busy texting to drive, blah, blah, blah, blah. Why can't they get on board like everyone else?" A tax like this -- where you're required to cough up as little as a few hundred to as much as a few thousand dollars a year -- in addition to the assinine prices you have to pay on insurance, gasoline, and a bank note year in and year out will certainly help to drive a big nail in the car's coffin with my generation, if it isn't indeed already true that we've just moved on to public transport and smartphones and probably aren't looking back.

But, you know, I guess a car really is a privelege for the wealthy, right? Right Boomers? Gen X? It's for the financially established. It's not for us young'uns who have to deal with the prospect of a poor job market, paying off a mountain of student loan debt, and facing the bald-faced reality that, when we do get a job, we'll be earning far less for our productivity than any prior generation in the United States, right? Right? I'm asking you since you're calling the legislative shots now. So go ahead and tax away ... you bunch of stupid, self-absorbed, short-sighted pricks.

[regfootball]

superb post. it is the task of the current generations 'in charge' seemingly, to take what once were normal expenses (cars, energy, education, health care, food) and turn them into luxuries for the privileged.......

As far as I am concerned you are absolutely justified to be pissed off. I would hate to be in your gen's shoes today.

Edited December 8, 2013 by regfootball

[Blake Noble]

superb post. it is the task of the current generations 'in chare' seemingly, to take what once were normal expenses (cars, energy, education, health care, food) and turn them into luxuries for the privileged.......

As far as I am concerned you are absolutely justified to be pissed off. I would hate to be in your gen's shoes today.

That's only the tip of the iceberg, too. The rabbit hole goes so deep, you can go probably for years without seeing the light at the end of it.

I mean ... what can I say? We really do have a one-lane, narrowed-shouldered hell of a future coming our way, and to put the blame squarely on our shoulders is true fool-hearted ignorance. We've graduated high school only to have been burdened with a mountain of debt the next morning after, most of us barely 18, the proverbial deck of cards stacked against our odds right out of the gate. We are set to inherit our parents' and grandparents' table scraps; we have been willed a complete and total mess. We will be handed what's left of a failing global economy diseased by the spread of consumerism and materialism, fruitlessly tolling our way through a job market that doesn't support us, regularly rejects us, and cannot pay us, virtually bankrupt before we even see our early to late 30s. We are a generation of wage slaves, at best. Our labor and productivity is worth nothing more than the dirt in the ground.

Then, to top it all off, we are verbally spat upon by our predecessors who berate us by saying we're too lazy and unambitious, that we expect to have everything handed to us. Perhaps the best insult out of all of them is the claim that we are narcissistic. Imagine that, labeled narcissistic by two highly narcissistic generations that have essentially buried us alive. Hey, Pot, you're black, too.

Sadly, I'm not even sure that there's even a real prospect that we'll be able to fix anything when we have our turn to sit behind the wheel. We'll be stretched too thin to manage to take control, our health dwindling under the stress of razorline financial resources, prematurely aged and burned out before our prime.

... Eh, I'll just shut the taps off on my rant now. I really don't like thinking about where the future's headed.

[A Horse With No Name]

The problem I have with this is: Why should a Nissan Sentra (2,832) pay the same tax per mile as a Nissan Armada (5,500)?

Exactly!

[Drew Dowdell]

if we could have an honest talk about raising the fuel taxes, gradually, to appropriately cover our crumbling infrastructure, we wouldn't need these experimental ideas. Those driving EVs and even PEVs, yes, should probably have to get taxed per mile.

[balthazar]

"probably have to get taxed" is the guiding mantra of Big Gov't. Blech.

Would love to see the scientific hard data on the additional 'road damage' of a 5500 LB vehicle vs. one that weighs 3000.

IF –and this is a huge 'if' IMO– this can in any slipshod manner be quantified by D.C., one can actually hear from here the salivating at the tax rate on 80,000 LB vehicles ("Never mind that Revenue behind the curtain!").

[Drew Dowdell]

How else do you propose to fund the roads? Why should EVs get a free ride?

[Robert Hall]

I hate how the right wingers oppose paying taxes but still like to use the roads...want everything for free, leeches...

[A Horse With No Name]

if we could have an honest talk about raising the fuel taxes, gradually, to appropriately cover our crumbling infrastructure, we wouldn't need these experimental ideas. Those driving EVs and even PEVs, yes, should probably have to get taxed per mile.

This would help the economy as well. I would be all for this!

I hate how the right wingers oppose paying taxes but still like to use the roads...want everything for free, leeches...

Like that clown Bundy out west? He is as much of a welfare queen as any inner city mother.....ugh....stopping now before this gets closed.

[balthazar]

How else do you propose to fund the roads? Why should EVs get a free ride?

Currently, EVs are still approx. 3% of the yearly sales volume, or less than some year-to-year fluctuation in volume.

My disgust is twofold- that highway monies are misappropriated to so many NON transportation projects, and that politicians are only quick to enact more taxes, and never quick to improve efficiencies or follow their own proposed intents.

The 'second shoe' is that EVs are NOT causing any measurable shortfall in any way, this is just another means to put sticky fingers on more dollars. IOW; this is not a "free ride" AFA politicians are concerned, but an opportunity for more taxation. It's akin to the toll charge to pay for a highway's building, that continues decades after it is. DC has a chronic addiction.

They have no data to support their contention.

Amazing to me that anyone would willingly & intelligently support vast, widespread & pervasive taxation on everything & anything based on the PR statement of it's "purpose".

If we don't start objectively examining the circumstances, motivations and money trails beyond the PRs, we're doomed to financial servitude.

Edited May 12, 2014 by balthazar

[Drew Dowdell]

EVs are not causing a shortfall today, but the increase in fuel economy in vehicles across the board is. I'm driving a V6 8-speed dodge durango this week. Highway I'm getting 26mpg. 20 years ago when the gas tax was last adjusted, I would have been getting 18 mpg tops in the same vehicle.

[balthazar]

Then perhaps DC should consider using a greater percentage of the gas tax on actual roads/bridges, than that which they manage to squeeze out now.

But that's not the way our broken-assed system works; I know.

[G. David Felt]

Washington state for the last 3yrs has been studying this idea to replace the gas tax with an actual mileage tax and all Auto's no matter how they are propelled would be taxed based on a sliding scale of weight and miles driven.

So far they have not come up with a solid idea yet, but I agree with many of the comments here that they need to truly put all the gas tax to the infrastructure and stop using it for other pet projects or socialist programs but rebuild the foundation of this country.

I believe that the mileage tax would be the fairest of tax's so that you truly pay as you go. Public transportation would need to increase fairs also have riders pay a break even fare for riding the bus. This is a privilege not a right to own an auto and ride public transportation.

[A Horse With No Name]

I pretty much think that we need to simplify the whole thing, and yes, use gas tax for infrastucture.

[loki]

has technology not improved how durable roads are?

so many taxes are percentages, why not the gas tax?

DC has a gas tax, states (typically have gas taxes, localities have gas taxes... and most of the time dc blackmails states for funding...

[Drew Dowdell]

What point is it if the gas tax is a per gallon or percent rate?

[smk4565]

I think the per mile tax is a fairly good idea. Because a Prius weighs more than a Corvette, so if it is about road damage and wear and tear, why should the Prius driver pay 1/2 or 1/3 as much in tax as a Corvette driver? And what happens the day 50% of the cars are hybrid or electric, should 50% of drivers not pay to fund the roads they are driving on? It has to change eventually, it is possible that in 2050 that a gasoline engine is only 10% of cars, so you can't fund roads with a per gallon tax forever.

They could do a hybrid tax system for now. For example, Pennsylvania has a 41 cent tax per gallon of gas, what if they dropped it to 20 cents per gallon but added a per mile tax that you paid when you registered your vehicle every year? Then you have 2 revenue streams, and can still get revenue from the EVs. You can't just keep upping the tax on gasoline because it will motivate people to move away from gasoline and switch to an alternative.

[balthazar]

>>"Because a Prius weighs more than a Corvette, so if it is about road damage and wear and tear, why should the Prius driver pay 1/2 or 1/3 as much in tax as a Corvette driver?"<<

Because there is no quantified data to show a prius does ANY more wear to a given roadway than a Corvette does.
Therefore, in the absence of proof, this is nothing more than a penalty for drivers who made a choice to burn less fuel/mile ... which is exactly what Gov't is strongly advocating, all the time.

Which F'ing way do they want it (if they have any collective view)??

[G. David Felt]

Washington state has one of the countries highest gas tax's.

http://www.gaspricewatch.com/web_gas_taxes.php

I bet that if they dropped the gas tax by half and went with .05 cent a mile road tax, they would generate more income to support the state DOT in building new bridges, roads, repairing existing roads and bridges etc.

This I base on the fact that at 55 cent tax per gallon and if the average car gets 20 miles per gallon, they collect only 55 cents where at .05 cents per mile, they collect $1.00

The key is these tax's MUST only go to the DOT and not into the general state fund where they get spent on social programs or what ever else the idiot politicians can think up on spending.

So at 15,000 miles a year for an auto that gets 15 miles per gallon, one would pay $750 a year for miles tax versus $550 a year in gas tax.

[2QuickZ's]

All I know is they need to do something here in Michigan as our roads look like they were carpet bombed by a B52. It is an absolute embarrassment. The Rebublicans in control were going to try and give some surplus tax money back but some many people have been shouting about the roads I think they have finally decided the money would be spent repairing our dismal roads.

I personally think a mixed gas/mileage based system would make the most sense as it would still encourage people to shift toward more fuel efficient vehicles while also encouraging them to drive less. What would constitute a reasonable tax rate is another matter entirely.

[loki]

What point is it if the gas tax is a per gallon or percent rate?

the percent rate would be a sales tax.... just like most everything else has. when i started driving a gallon was ~$1. at a ~$.18 per gallon federal and $.17 for missouri.

so if it was a percent.... Mo's would be ~26%

federal would be 27.7%

today in IL gas is ~$3.65 - the taxes = ~$3.30. make them percentages...3.3 * ~1.53 = $5.04. think we'd be complaining about the conditions of the road anymore if that money was going where it was supposed to?

yes i simplified and didn't do anything for the state change...

http://www.irs.gov.edgesuite-staging.net/pub/irs-soi/00gastax.pdf

I personally think a mixed gas/mileage based system would make the most sense as it would still encourage people to shift toward more fuel efficient vehicles while also encouraging them to drive less. What would constitute a reasonable tax rate is another matter entirely.

i think if this happened rural areas would suffer... or walmarts would start poping up in towns with less than 5K people

[2QuickZ's]

What point is it if the gas tax is a per gallon or percent rate?

the percent rate would be a sales tax.... just like most everything else has. when i started driving a gallon was ~$1. at a ~$.18 per gallon federal and $.17 for missouri.

so if it was a percent.... Mo's would be ~26%

federal would be 27.7%

today in IL gas is ~$3.65 - the taxes = ~$3.30. make them percentages...3.3 * ~1.53 = $5.04. think we'd be complaining about the conditions of the road anymore if that money was going where it was supposed to?

yes i simplified and didn't do anything for the state change...

http://www.irs.gov.edgesuite-staging.net/pub/irs-soi/00gastax.pdf

I personally think a mixed gas/mileage based system would make the most sense as it would still encourage people to shift toward more fuel efficient vehicles while also encouraging them to drive less. What would constitute a reasonable tax rate is another matter entirely.

i think if this happened rural areas would suffer... or walmarts would start poping up in towns with less than 5K people

Even a gas tax is a tax on miles driven when you think about it. I guess my thought was it doesn't let the drivers of electrics or hybrids off the hook for paying for the roads they use along with everybody else but also doesn't encourage them to go out and buy a gas guzzler either. My thought is that the gas tax would drop by a similar amount to what could be expected to be recouped via the mileage based tax but not fully so they would get a net revenue gain. Unfortunately I don't have the right answer but I can say that doing nothing is definitely not it.

[balthazar]

>>"My thought is that the gas tax would drop by a similar amount to what could be expected to be recouped via the mileage based tax..."<<

Don't hold your breath.

[A Horse With No Name]

superb post. it is the task of the current generations 'in charge' seemingly, to take what once were normal expenses (cars, energy, education, health care, food) and turn them into luxuries for the privileged.......

As far as I am concerned you are absolutely justified to be pissed off. I would hate to be in your gen's shoes today.

There is a good book called Generation Broke that talks about how bad your gneration really has it. I now work for a private Unviersity, often a degree in a relevant field still leaves people unemployed or working at Subway.

Our society sucks for anyone trying toa ctually work and make a living.

[G. David Felt]

All I know is they need to do something here in Michigan as our roads look like they were carpet bombed by a B52. It is an absolute embarrassment. The Rebublicans in control were going to try and give some surplus tax money back but some many people have been shouting about the roads I think they have finally decided the money would be spent repairing our dismal roads.

I personally think a mixed gas/mileage based system would make the most sense as it would still encourage people to shift toward more fuel efficient vehicles while also encouraging them to drive less. What would constitute a reasonable tax rate is another matter entirely.

With such an amazing country to see, why would you want people to drive less? This is cast system thinking of keep people in their place. Politicians from either party are idiots as they only think of themselves and never truly work for the people. Term limits and accountability need to be instilled into our gov again.

[G. David Felt]

Our society sucks for anyone trying to actually work and make a living.

Very true, I am the worst at playing politics and as such have been screwed out of job openings due to others that played better politics and could kiss ass like a hoover even though they could barely perform in their existing role and ended up getting promoted. Eventually things collapse and the idiots who got ahead will fall hard. I believe what goes around comes around and eventually the morons will loose who abused the system.

[A Horse With No Name]

Our society sucks for anyone trying to actually work and make a living.

Very true, I am the worst at playing politics and as such have been screwed out of job openings due to others that played better politics and could kiss ass like a hoover even though they could barely perform in their existing role and ended up getting promoted. Eventually things collapse and the idiots who got ahead will fall hard. I believe what goes around comes around and eventually the morons will loose who abused the system.

it's called the Peter Princial, everyone is promoted to the level where they are alas no longer competent.

All I know is they need to do something here in Michigan as our roads look like they were carpet bombed by a B52. It is an absolute embarrassment. The Rebublicans in control were going to try and give some surplus tax money back but some many people have been shouting about the roads I think they have finally decided the money would be spent repairing our dismal roads.

I personally think a mixed gas/mileage based system would make the most sense as it would still encourage people to shift toward more fuel efficient vehicles while also encouraging them to drive less. What would constitute a reasonable tax rate is another matter entirely.

With such an amazing country to see, why would you want people to drive less? This is cast system thinking of keep people in their place. Politicians from either party are idiots as they only think of themselves and never truly work for the people. Term limits and accountability need to be instilled into our gov again.

the economy is Michigan is shot, there is no money left to fix things. It's what you get when you outsource everything to China and try to live life at the bare minumum of effort needed. And those comments are directed towards our society as a whole, not just Michigan.

[2QuickZ's]

All I know is they need to do something here in Michigan as our roads look like they were carpet bombed by a B52. It is an absolute embarrassment. The Rebublicans in control were going to try and give some surplus tax money back but some many people have been shouting about the roads I think they have finally decided the money would be spent repairing our dismal roads.

I personally think a mixed gas/mileage based system would make the most sense as it would still encourage people to shift toward more fuel efficient vehicles while also encouraging them to drive less. What would constitute a reasonable tax rate is another matter entirely.

With such an amazing country to see, why would you want people to drive less? This is cast system thinking of keep people in their place. Politicians from either party are idiots as they only think of themselves and never truly work for the people. Term limits and accountability need to be instilled into our gov again.

+1 for your post as I pretty much agree with everything in it. [rant] We definitely need term limits. I actually voted against ALL incumbents a couple of elections ago as a protest, not that it did any good. The average uninformed American voter just checks the box for the name they recognize. While we are at it, why not reform the primary setup so we don't keep getting these radical candidates from each side? It makes it hard for an independent moderate like me to pick a "good" candidate. I can't recall a recent election where I didn't feel I was choosing between dumb and dumber. I don't get to vote for a good candidate, just a less bad one. [/rant]

I strictly meant the drive less in terms of people's proximity to work, not in regard to recreational driving. The Michigan tourism folks (Pure Michigan anyone?) would not be real happy with discouraging tourism.

[2QuickZ's]

the economy is Michigan is shot, there is no money left to fix things. It's what you get when you outsource everything to China and try to live life at the bare minumum of effort needed. And those comments are directed towards our society as a whole, not just Michigan.

The economy in Michigan was pretty bad for a while but it has rebounded and even property values are coming back in a big way. The problem right now isn't so much the economy as it is politics. Tax increase is verboten in a completely Republican controlled state (thanks redistricting!) and they pretty much have full control to implement their agenda which does not include any serious effort to fix the roads. I think they are too busy fighting a new international border crossing where all the money is being fronted by Canada because they are afraid something might no go according to plan and the state may have to pay something out of our own pocket. Plus Matty Moroun has deep pockets to pay them all off to fight it. In case you don't know good ol' Matty, he is the owner of what I believe is the only privately held border crossing in the U.S. He is using his money to convince our fine upstanding legislators that any new border crossing between Michigan and Ontario should also be privately held. --EDIT: Okay, apparently it isn't the only one. See the newly attached links if interested in more info--

On the plus side, they actually took a public beating for trying to give surplus tax money back so it looks like now they may decide to spend it on some road resurfacing instead.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/us/12bridge.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-05-03/matty-moroun-detroits-border-baron

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10241088

Edited May 15, 2014 by 2QuickZ's

[G. David Felt]

I strongly feel as an Independent Middle of the road that the people of this country need to revoke all current politicians and force change on the Gov to be held accountable to an actual budget that takes the specific tax dollars and puts it into the proper Infrastructure and defense of this country.

The political system has had long enough to properly fix and remove a General fund so that the areas such as Roads, police, fire departments and schools get funded.

Also where in our constitution does it say that we will defend the world, Police the world and pay for everyone's life style. {rant}

In regards to the Mass proposal I strongly am leaning more towards removing ALL Gas tax and have a mileage tax.

Driving just like cell phones, internet and TV are Privileges you earn, not Rights! As such, level the playing field and have everyone pay a standard much like we need a income tax system that tax's everyone equally rather than allowing for certain groups to make millions while paying little in tax's compared to the average person.

2 to 3 cents per mile tax would work out well.

State, Regional and Federal collection of Gas Tax Amounts through 2009

http://www.gaspricewatch.com/imgs/popup.html?motor_fuel_rev.gif

More current info seems to be here:

http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/fuel-taxes.aspx

Current copy of the first quarter 2014 fuel taxes here:

http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/~/media/Files/Statistics/state-motor-fuel-taxes-report-summary.pdf

Detailed tax on fuel by state, a break down that shows the federal, state, county, city taxes for a gallon. Pretty interesting.

http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/~/media/Files/Statistics/StateMotorFuel_OnePagers.pdf

Chart of the above PDF for quicker comparison.

http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/~/media/47E397E1D3B14F61BAADCB6CA56A9F84.pdf

It would seem that in federal tax collected it runs depending on the site and report from 68 billion to 78 billion in tax's collected and this is before the states add their tax's on, so when you consider like Washington state, the 18.5 cents in federal tax plus the 41 cents state tax, they do collect billions and yet with going into a general fund, it really is lost on going back into the roads as it should.

As such, remove the gas tax and charge everyone the same fee, 2 cents per mile tax.

Semi trucks would be something else that would have to be tackled. How do you properly charge trucks moving between states, estimated miles based on delivery, require all trucks to stop at the border and report / pay?

I see how this would be a brain twister for some but I think it would balance out in the end with all registered auto's semi's etc in the state paying a per mile tax. For cross country trucks, you have a permit fee to come into Washington.

Thoughts?

[loki]

decentralized taxes are better.

mileage taxes just try to reduce people's movement instead of advancing efficiency. this would be fine for few miles a day people, but the ones that have jobs that deliver, you're hurting them.

if driving isn't a right? then get the money at the dmv. upfront.

[balthazar]

In general this goes end-around the problem. We're talking about tax rates & methods in order to fund infrastructure, but it is those on control of collection/distribution that are the problem. 75 billion isn't enough but they're pulling money out to pay for other projects??? THERE'S your problem area.

When Joe Blow takes money that doesn't belong to him, its larceny or embezzlement. When politicians do it, taxes have to be increased.

Lawlessness, or at least from common sense & stated purpose.

[A Horse With No Name]

In general this goes end-around the problem. We're talking about tax rates & methods in order to fund infrastructure, but it is those on control of collection/distribution that are the problem. 75 billion isn't enough but they're pulling money out to pay for other projects??? THERE'S your problem area.

When Joe Blow takes money that doesn't belong to him, its larceny or embezzlement. When politicians do it, taxes have to be increased.

Lawlessness, or at least from common sense & stated purpose.

For once, I absolutely effing agree with you here.

[Drew Dowdell]

The problem is that no one ever wants to pay for anything and they never want to be inconvenienced. There is one project going on near me where they are only allowed to do work after 10pm and before 6am, so they end up paying a bunch extra to have overnight workers.