Anyone Else happy with the first CTS VSport reviews?

[hyperv6]

Having read many of the other web sites with the new CTS V Sport reviews things look very good. Even Consumer reports loved it and stated it drove better than the Germans.

The CUE is still a point of complaint. I hope Cadillac will address it soon.

These reports have been out all week and no one here even mentioned anything?

[regfootball]

all the punks and pretty bois will still love their German cars

in the meantime, the new CTS will be kicking ass!

imagine when that TTv8 is rolling..........

[hyperv6]

all the punks and pretty bois will still love their German cars

in the meantime, the new CTS will be kicking ass!

imagine when that TTv8 is rolling..........

I am wondering will we see a AWD 600 plus HP CTS V this time. Lets face it they can add more power to the CTS but they have to remove the power just to hook it up. A real Haldex system here to handle the power would really make for a car that would challenge any sedan and many sports cars.

Making great power is one thing but it is use less unless you can hook it up. The CTS V is finally in the price range that it can support a proper AWD system.

[regfootball]

great idea

[justusforus]

There are some that will always think there is more status with a European brand, but Cadillac is showing a shift in design as well as a new (and hipper) ad campaign.

[hyperv6]

There are some that will always think there is more status with a European brand, but Cadillac is showing a shift in design as well as a new (and hipper) ad campaign.

Too many use this obvious excuse for Cadillac to never try to compete with them when the fact is there are also a large base that would never own a German car too.

Contrary to what some here believe Cadillac has not really held much significance since the 60's and it was waning even then.

The point is that no car is going to win the entire world market 100% but that is not an excuse for not trying to win as much as you can. Cadillac can own a good share of this market in time but they have to own their reputation back with each and every new model.

Cadillac will take time to grow and build it's markets and image. In this segment there is no problem with not being number one in each market as longs as you continue to improve and remain profitable.

Right now Cadillac has gone from crap to being taken serious now by the media and slowly by the unwashed public. The next step is to back it up. We must remember Cadillac not so long ago in the 80's was seen as Lincoln is today as a joke. Today we are seeing people in Cadillac's that would never had considered them 25 years ago. They hit some bumps and setbacks along the way but now they have the proper funding and leadership to pull this off.

This war is not going to be won in one year or one model so do not expect the LTS to dominate this segment even if it is the best car.

The markets way of thinking can change and at some point Cadillac can and will dominate but it will take consistently good product and time. Just look back in the 70's and remember how many said the Japanese would never dominate Detroit. That people is proof possible anything can happen.

GM needs to make sure to give the people what the want today and stop living so much in the past. We have people today who want to argue that they need the wreath and there are so many other important things to worry about in their cars.

The Elmirage is a good example of where they are going and yes a open 4 door and 2 door are cool the sedan will be first and improve on what they have now. Why because that is where the market is at. The coupe will come in time just as the ATS coupe will.

The CTS is proof that GM has improved on the ATS and we will see an improvement on the LTS and other like models from here out.

[Drew Dowdell]

Our very own will be going up on Monday.

[balthazar]

Cadillac's image / perception decline started in the later 1970s, not the '60s, and even then it was slight. Around the time the Seville came out there was an beginning undercurrent where you'd see criticism of product, and IMO it was justified in a number of areas. Plus, you started to hear a beginning positive undercurrent WRT Daimler & BMW (but not much- as these were not luxury cars at the time, but spartan 'sports sedans', to a degree they had little in the way of performance, but they showed a decent step up in handling).

Where Cadillac fell of the cliff, screaming, began right about 1980, with the triple whammy of the GM diesel, the V8-6-4 and the C-car. But in the 1960s, Cadillac was still very much at the pinnacle overall. You can pick at that to a limited degree (discontinuation of the Eldo Brougham, discontinuation of the unique-bodied Eldorado) but the '67 E pretty much restored at least the later of those. IMO, by circa '73-74, the senior cars were looking a bit behind where things were going, but the '77 downsize was a home run at the time.

DD- looking forward to the C&G take on the CTS!

[hyperv6]

Cadillac's image / perception decline started in the later 1970s, not the '60s, and even then it was slight. Around the time the Seville came out there was an beginning undercurrent where you'd see criticism of product, and IMO it was justified in a number of areas. Plus, you started to hear a beginning positive undercurrent WRT Daimler & BMW (but not much- as these were not luxury cars at the time, but spartan 'sports sedans', to a degree they had little in the way of performance, but they showed a decent step up in handling).

Where Cadillac fell of the cliff, screaming, began right about 1980, with the triple whammy of the GM diesel, the V8-6-4 and the C-car. But in the 1960s, Cadillac was still very much at the pinnacle overall. You can pick at that to a limited degree (discontinuation of the Eldo Brougham, discontinuation of the unique-bodied Eldorado) but the '67 E pretty much restored at least the later of those. IMO, by circa '73-74, the senior cars were looking a bit behind where things were going, but the '77 downsize was a home run at the time.

DD- looking forward to the C&G take on the CTS!

Matter of opinion.

Other than the Eldorado the 60's showed a decline every year in styling that did not improve in the 70's and the lack of reaction to the market changes in the 80's or in their case over reaction in the wrong direction was just the last nail.

The values of the cars of the 60's reflect the value people have yet see in them today. The 50's were tough to top.

Our very own will be going up on Monday.

Better late than ........

[balthazar]

You are right; styling is a matter of opinion... however, I was addressing market position, image & perception, esp vs. competition (like I stated), not merely my personal opinion of styling.

RE valuation today- this is not an indication of Cadillac's product/image/etc, but a wider view of the eras in question. Look at a '55 mercedes S vs. a '65 S; the former is worth 5 times the latter. BMW is in the same boat- '50s stuff is just that highly valued. High retail for a '53 Eldorado is $225,000.

[J Reinhardt]

It's a car that does everything well and offers the performance of cars almost twice the price. What's not to like? Spend a little bit on tuning and it'll fly.

In terms of refinement there still not there but it's getting there.

[hyperv6]

You are right; styling is a matter of opinion... however, I was addressing market position, image & perception, esp vs. competition (like I stated), not merely my personal opinion of styling.

RE valuation today- this is not an indication of Cadillac's product/image/etc, but a wider view of the eras in question. Look at a '55 mercedes S vs. a '65 S; the former is worth 5 times the latter. BMW is in the same boat- '50s stuff is just that highly valued. High retail for a '53 Eldorado is $225,000.

Styling and quality were on the decline in the 60's and the wheels came off when the market changed in 1973. People started to change their opinions and wants in Luxury cars. They no longer wanted floating boats and they really did not miss the large hunks of chrome. Cadillac reacted with the Seville but it was a weak attempt they never really follow through on. To be fair Lincoln failed even worse here.

America moved on and the American automakers just did not understand the changes. The panic moves in the 80's just were the final nail to an issue that they ever understood or fixed until recently.

It is the same problem they also faced when they tried to send Cadillac to Europe. Over there you have to sell, build and market cars differently as they are not Americans. In Germany they really stress and market as cars engineering. This is the aspect of Germans that they see value in. If GM goes back they need to learn and sell cars with high technical value and interest to these people. I know they may never take over the market there but they can and need to have a presents and make a profit there.

[hyperv6]

It's a car that does everything well and offers the performance of cars almost twice the price. What's not to like? Spend a little bit on tuning and it'll fly.

In terms of refinement there still not there but it's getting there.

I am not sure they are not that far off on refinement. They are right in there and the small details will be worked out with each year and model. The jump From ATS to the CTS has been great and I see the LTS even moving nearer the goal.

To be sure they are watching in Europe and know that their sales can take a hit here with these cars. The B boys are not what they once were and have slipped a little in the detail refinements in some areas too.

[balthazar]

wheels came off when the market changed in 1973. People started to change their opinions and wants in Luxury cars. They no longer wanted floating boats and they really did not miss the large hunks of chrome. Cadillac reacted with the Seville but it was a weak attempt they never really follow through on.

You need to check Cadillac's production figures thruout the '70s. They tell the facts vs. your account.
Seville was a clean gut-check to mercedes, who thought they had Cadillac right where they wanted them. It was quite a strong contender and got very good press, but by that same year I mentioned above, the 2nd gen veered off in another direction.
Fact of the matter is, mercedes changed up their game from the '60s to the '80s to become a LOT more like Cadillac than the other way around. Clearly, they benchmarked. But Roger Smith's '80s sure made things easier for the Germans...

Anyway, it's an incredible time to watch Cadillac, the ATS & CTS sure go miles to restore the established tradition @ Cadillac. Meanwhile the german twins are working hard on FWD 'value' cars.

[hyperv6]

wheels came off when the market changed in 1973. People started to change their opinions and wants in Luxury cars. They no longer wanted floating boats and they really did not miss the large hunks of chrome. Cadillac reacted with the Seville but it was a weak attempt they never really follow through on.

You need to check Cadillac's production figures thruout the '70s. They tell the facts vs. your account.

Seville was a clean gut-check to mercedes, who thought they had Cadillac right where they wanted them. It was quite a strong contender and got very good press, but by that same year I mentioned above, the 2nd gen veered off in another direction.

Fact of the matter is, mercedes changed up their game from the '60s to the '80s to become a LOT more like Cadillac than the other way around. Clearly, they benchmarked. But Roger Smith's '80s sure made things easier for the Germans...

Anyway, it's an incredible time to watch Cadillac, the ATS & CTS sure go miles to restore the established tradition @ Cadillac. Meanwhile the german twins are working hard on FWD 'value' cars.

Well you might want to check reality vs. your dream.

At 1973 the market really began to change and start the decline. It did not happen over night but the monster beast cars were done in that era. While the Seville raised eyebrows the car was nothing but a good looking Nova. As time passes no one was fooled. They moved to the hump back to try to change minds but that did not work either. It was till the first STS that they finally go the idea but due to the lack of fund were not able to complete the deal. Today the development money is there and they are very close to closing the deal started with the original Seville concept.

Keep in mind this is also the GM that tried to convince the Grand AM was a Germany competitor too.

As for your last comment I agree and I believe that having Buick around to take up that price segments FWD market will pay off for Cadillac as it will nor dilute their mission. GM having three distinct division here may just pay off and give them the ability to do what the others can not do.

[Drew Dowdell]

Our very own will be going up on Monday.

Better late than ........

Rude. Ya know, I do have a day job. I can't make it to every drive event out there. I drove the car Thursday and you'll have the review Monday... what more do you want from me unless you're proposing to fully fund this site and my travel costs yourself?

[hyperv6]

Our very own will be going up on Monday.

Better late than ........

Rude. Ya know, I do have a day job. I can't make it to every drive event out there. I drove the car Thursday and you'll have the review Monday... what more do you want from me unless you're proposing to fully fund this site and my travel costs yourself?

This is not about waiting around for your test. This is about the lack of a post on recent info and test that have been out on many products.

This site no longer always post the latest news like it used to for debate and people will and have gone elsewhere.

This has been my loyal prime place to come for the latest GM news and debate but of late to get the latest news and info I have had to go else where. I am not alone.

This is not a personal attack on you but just disappointment that things are just not leading as they used to be here. I hate to see a good thing lose it's edge. Debates here are tough and info used to be up to the minute and it made us all better.

There was a time where the other reports were noted and it was stated we will have our report in a couple days. In the interim we would has out the reports we did have and then balance against the one here. But this week it has been no news and a debate on an old Eldorado. It is fine to bring up the old things but while new news is breaking nothing is even posted.

Edited September 22, 2013 by hyperv6

[Drew Dowdell]

Sounds like you just volunteered to be an editor/reporter. Suit up!

[balthazar]

While the Seville raised eyebrows the car was nothing but a good looking Nova. As time passes no one was fooled.

[hyperv6]

Sounds like you just volunteered to be an editor/reporter. Suit up!

You do not pay enough! LOL!

Sorry nothing personal. I just was aggravated as I wanted to talk new CTS and this is the place to debate it but it is no longer the first place for news anymore. The other places with the news have so many people with no clue it really is not much of a conversation.

Now if you can arrange it So I can hang out with Lutz for a week I may take you up on that. The value of the cigars is more than adequate compensation.

I am Sorry Drew this was anything directed at you. I understand what you are up against.

While the Seville raised eyebrows the car was nothing but a good looking Nova. As time passes no one was fooled.

Damn if they had just lost the Wreath sooner things would be all that more sunny.

LOL!

[Drew Dowdell]

We were never ever the first place for news...well except the first time the Outlook got cancelled. Every news post we have references another article somewhere else.

If you want to post something, post it. No one is stopping you and you don't need to wait for William or I. If you have a problem with how quickly things get posted here, either suit up and post or don't complain.

[balthazar]

We were never ever the first place for news...well except the first time the Outlook got cancelled. Every news post we have references another article somewhere else.

Yea; I didn't get that claim, either, and I've been hanging out here for 11 years now.

[hyperv6]

Never mind I need to catch up somewhere else.

[hyperv6]

Never Mind! I will just catch up on other sites.