The $25,000 question....

[daves87rs]

If every other car but the Prius, Mitsu Galant and Honda Accord got wiped off the earth, the Accord is a good idea. The Accord is just one step above a beige Camry, and buying a beige Camry is admitting you have given up on life.

You can get a used Passat TDI in southwestern PA for $25k or less, but they are harder to find. There are loads of Chrysler 300's to pick from at that price or cheaper. The Chrysler 300 is a bit obstentatious as well though.

+1

Agreeing with this....

[daves87rs]

Still like the Cruze Eco myself, but somehow I feel the Cruze Diesel is not going to be as outgoing as the VW's...

So I'm calling it- either a Jetta or Passat. Judging by your likes, I see you leaning toward these....

[Drew Dowdell]

Well the Jetta was never really on the list, even as a TDI.

[smk4565]

The Cruze itself isn't that good of a car to me, adding the diesel isn't going to make it better than a Passat, which has more room, more features, looks better, etc. If you take MPG out of the equation, the Cruze is no where near the car a Passat or Chrysler 300 are. It's too bad the Passat CC didn't offer a diesel.

I haven't driven a Passat or 300, but I've sat in both at auto shows, I think the Passat has better build quality, and the 300/Charger to me seem really tall and wide, my car is big, but it looks little parked next to a 300 or Charger.

[Drew Dowdell]

The cars that are on the list are cars that I've driven extensively (except the Cruze Diesel, but that is a power train only difference) and already know that I would be comfortable with... and thus... all would be acceptable to me at the right price. Since all of them are close to the right price, I'm working out which would bring the most satisfaction or the best deal.

I really enjoy the 300 C... to me it is a budget S-class in ride, drive, and handling. I've already said that if Chrysler sold a 300D, I'd just buy that and be done with it.... they don't... so I have to work backwards from there.

[Drew Dowdell]

Hmm.... recent discovery yields substantial change of course..

[G. David Felt]

What discovery??????

[Drew Dowdell]

The unexpected low price of another car, used with surprisingly low miles, that I am already very familiar with and would work well for my purposes.

Like $10k - $12k cheaper than the target price that started this thread. Not a MPG monster by any means, but not terrible either. Good enough that it would be fine many times over at that $10k discount.

[caddycruiser]

Sounds like a good find.

I often wonder if I was not doing what I am now, and didn't have the Regal GS lease I never drive anyway, what would peak my interest.

Wait and see what you've found, sounds interesting.

[Intrepidation]

He found and Avalon.

[A Horse With No Name]

What about Volt?

$39,995 MSRP

- $3,600 dealer discount

- $3,000 GM rebate

- $7,500 federal tax credit

- $3,000 PA state rebate (As of May 1, 2013, 422 rebates remain at $3,000)

$22,895 effective cost + 0% financing for 48 months + 3 cents per mile on electricity

And those are just private costs. Greater EV adoption will also generate knowledge spillovers (stimulates further innovation), network externalities (as more people drive EVs and need charging infrastructure, the more valuable this infrastructure becomes), and economies of scale (cheaper EVs for all).

This and the fee dub would be my thoughts, sir.

[Robert Hall]

Definitely an interesting topic... I may have to replace my Jeep in the next year (145k but still going) and I'm thinking of something full size, low mileage, clean and used for around $25k....late model DTS, Town Car or Grand Marquis, Charger or 300 are on my radar..

Edited June 1, 2013 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[A Horse With No Name]

There are 40 2012 Chrysler 300's for sale for $25,000 or less within 100 miles of Pittsburgh, most are Limited. Lots to choose from.

I still like the bee dub or the volt...cpo cts?

[smk4565]

Definitely an interesting topic... I may have to replace my Jeep in the next year (145k but still going) and I'm thinking of something full size, low mileage, clean and used for around $25k....late model DTS, Town Car or Grand Marquis, Charger or 300 are on my radar..

Drive a Genesis, they are really good, and the V8 is really powerful. I like the car a lot, but it just seems too boring for me, and it is a little soft. And the odd thing about the Genesis, is it feels sort of soft in corners, because it has a little body roll, but in straight lines the suspension seems to firm up. It should be the opposite, but none the less, they are a nice driving car, and pretty cheap used. If it was more interesting I think it would be my top choice, but every time I see one I just think it looks so bland.

The unexpected low price of another car, used with surprisingly low miles, that I am already very familiar with and would work well for my purposes.

Like $10k - $12k cheaper than the target price that started this thread. Not a MPG monster by any means, but not terrible either. Good enough that it would be fine many times over at that $10k discount.

Buick Lucerne? Those have to sell for dirt cheap on the used market. But there is a reason for that.

[daves87rs]

The Cruze itself isn't that good of a car to me, adding the diesel isn't going to make it better than a Passat, which has more room, more features, looks better, etc. If you take MPG out of the equation, the Cruze is no where near the car a Passat or Chrysler 300 are. It's too bad the Passat CC didn't offer a diesel.

I haven't driven a Passat or 300, but I've sat in both at auto shows, I think the Passat has better build quality, and the 300/Charger to me seem really tall and wide, my car is big, but it looks little parked next to a 300 or Charger.

Mostly because the Cruze is way out of class with those cars....of course they would be better. In it's class though, it is sadly much better than the heap I call the Cobalt. It's a sad day when I'd rather drive a 90's designed Cavalier than the Balt.......The cruze reminds me of the toyota corolla, but better looking and faster.....

That being said, I'm not sure he'll get a cruze anyways.....

[Drew Dowdell]

Sounds like a good find.

I often wonder if I was not doing what I am now, and didn't have the Regal GS lease I never drive anyway, what would peak my interest.

Wait and see what you've found, sounds interesting.

It's not one specific car exactly... it's a make/model that that I already like but appears to have rock-like depreciation. It won't be the most popular choice here..but it is one that wouldn't suprise any of you and I already know it is one that would suit me.

That said, I'm really all over the place on this... I got back to thinking about small trucks again... but I couldn't do a Ranger or Colorado/Canyon (hate the interiors on all 3) or Tacoma (You guys would string me up after the frame broke) or any recent Dakota (ditto the other domestics) or Ridgeline (I'd have to sell C&G).... so that leaves me with... Nissan Frontier and Suzuki Equator

[Drew Dowdell]

Definitely an interesting topic... I may have to replace my Jeep in the next year (145k but still going) and I'm thinking of something full size, low mileage, clean and used for around $25k....late model DTS, Town Car or Grand Marquis, Charger or 300 are on my radar..

You could spend $10k less than that and still get a DTS with just 35k on the clock and loaded to the gills.

The unexpected low price of another car, used with surprisingly low miles, that I am already very familiar with and would work well for my purposes.

Like $10k - $12k cheaper than the target price that started this thread. Not a MPG monster by any means, but not terrible either. Good enough that it would be fine many times over at that $10k discount.

Buick Lucerne? Those have to sell for dirt cheap on the used market. But there is a reason for that.

Looked at but no... couldn't do it. You're the warmest so far though.

[smk4565]

What about a 1992 Rolls-Royce Silver Spur. Those are around $20-25k and have a roomy interior and pillowy ride.

Mid 2000s BMW 7-series and Audi A8 can be had for $25k.

[smk4565]

Looked at but no... couldn't do it. You're the warmest so far though.

Is it a 2003 Buick Regal Joseph Abboud or early 2000s Park Avenue Ultra?

[Robert Hall]

Buick Lucerne? Those have to sell for dirt cheap on the used market. But there is a reason for that.

Looked at but no... couldn't do it. You're the warmest so far though.

1st gen LaCrosse or it's Regal predecessor?

[Camino LS6]

I guess I'd better keep my mouth shut...

[smk4565]

Every GM sedan pre 2008 is pretty bad by today's standards. I did just have a thought though, the 2005-2010 STS sells for dirt cheap now, and it does give you a fairly nice interior with a lot of equipment. Plus most people that bought that car were 70 and parked it in a garage, so there are many low miles, clean examples to pick from. They ride a little soft for my liking but Drew likes a soft ride.

[Robert Hall]

Every GM sedan pre 2008 is pretty bad by today's standards. I did just have a thought though, the 2005-2010 STS sells for dirt cheap now, and it does give you a fairly nice interior with a lot of equipment. Plus most people that bought that car were 70 and parked it in a garage, so there are many low miles, clean examples to pick from. They ride a little soft for my liking but Drew likes a soft ride.

STSes are nice.I had a couple of them as rentals back in '10-11..had one for a week, seems like a very nice car to live with.

[ocnblu]

How much is a current model LaCrosse 3.6 going for, CPO?

[Drew Dowdell]

I guess I'd better keep my mouth shut...

I'm actually enjoying the guesses. :-) but yes, you're disqualified Camino ;-)

[Drew Dowdell]

Looked at but no... couldn't do it. You're the warmest so far though.

Is it a 2003 Buick Regal Joseph Abboud or early 2000s Park Avenue Ultra?

Think younger, both in model year and perceived image.

[Drew Dowdell]

Every GM sedan pre 2008 is pretty bad by today's standards. I did just have a thought though, the 2005-2010 STS sells for dirt cheap now, and it does give you a fairly nice interior with a lot of equipment. Plus most people that bought that car were 70 and parked it in a garage, so there are many low miles, clean examples to pick from. They ride a little soft for my liking but Drew likes a soft ride.

Well remember, I'm not aiming for an S-class here. It's just gotta be solid car, big enough, and have some basic premium options. You're getting warmer.

[smk4565]

The sad thing is the Chrysler 300 diesel exists in Europe as the Lancia Thema with a 239 hp V6 and 400 lb-ft of torque.

2008-09 CTS are under $25k, I imagine 2010 LaCrosse's must be also.

[pow]

Impala 3.6?

[regfootball]

Sounds like a good find.

I often wonder if I was not doing what I am now, and didn't have the Regal GS lease I never drive anyway, what would peak my interest.

Wait and see what you've found, sounds interesting.

It's not one specific car exactly... it's a make/model that that I already like but appears to have rock-like depreciation. It won't be the most popular choice here..but it is one that wouldn't suprise any of you and I already know it is one that would suit me.

That said, I'm really all over the place on this... I got back to thinking about small trucks again... but I couldn't do a Ranger or Colorado/Canyon (hate the interiors on all 3) or Tacoma (You guys would string me up after the frame broke) or any recent Dakota (ditto the other domestics) or Ridgeline (I'd have to sell C&G).... so that leaves me with... Nissan Frontier and Suzuki Equator

You won't get stellar gas mileage from the Equator / Frontier. 22mpg MAYBE max on the v6.

Impala 3.6?

i yo impalas with the 3.6 and low miles go for about 15 in these parts.

[regfootball]

in side news, the Impala got a high praise and second place in the July 13 C/D comparo. The cheap interior was a contributor in that. But they seemed to really praise the car, they just couldn't give it the win, gotta have someone besides GM win. AVALON.

[smk4565]

The Impala is terrible. It screams rental car. Some cars are cool, and probably 80% are appliances that no one else aspires to have. The 300C has some cool factor to it, even though it isn't really my cup of tea. The Passat with the 5 spoke wheels looks expensive and has that German build quality expensive look to it that makes people turn their heads to look at it.

[frogger]

STS v6?

[Drew Dowdell]

... those of you who know me well enough should see the hint I'm giving with the "I'm already familiar with..." line.

[Robert Hall]

1st gen CTS or Avalanche?

[Drew Dowdell]

Cubi got it - 1st or 2nd gen CTS. I've found large numbers of the former and a few of the latter, in the $13k - $17k range, with absurdly low mileage for the price/equipment. There is a familiarity factor here which makes it an easier sell at home. Mine was rock solid for the 48k miles I had it, so finding them out there with 32k - 36k on the clock is reassuring that the next few years with the car would be mostly trouble free.

One piece of info I may have left out is that this is only intended to be a 2 - 3 year car for me. So if I trade it in 24 months, don't be surprised.

[daves87rs]

CTS could work....like the 2nd gens....

[G. David Felt]

Nice Drew, cannot go wrong with a CTS. Sweet rides and truly trouble free.

[GMTruckGuy74]

One piece of info I may have left out is that this is only intended to be a 2 - 3 year car for me. So if I trade it in 24 months, don't be surprised.

Well, now you're just trying to compete with ocnblu and caddycruiser

[Drew Dowdell]

No no.. those two buy/lease new.

[smk4565]

I sort of wondered why the CTS didn't come up before, but I just figured you didn't like the current one and 2007 was too old. Since I am looking for under $25k rear drive cars I thought about one too, but I am not a a big fan of the bulky styling and like how the Genesis V8 more. But I need to drive an E-class because I think that is what I'll end up with. I'll probably keep the car 10 years, and Mercedes last forever.

[Robert Hall]

For me, I just can't warm to the Genesis and prefer to stick w/ a domestic brand. I've had experiences w/ older Mercedes and they seem to become money pits as they age (esp. w/ the electronics). A CTS, STS, or even a DTS are cars on my radar...as are the Chrysler/Dodge LX models...and even as an ancient as they are, I like the Panthers....

[smk4565]

The Genesis does lack passion and soul. They put in the engineering work, the luxury features, the double glazed windows, the big V8, etc, but they forgot the heart and soul. Sort of the opposite of an Alfa Romeo, which has the flair and forgot the engineering.

[regfootball]

1st gen CTS has an attitude the 2nd gen lacks IMHO.

[daves87rs]

1st gen CTS has an attitude the 2nd gen lacks IMHO.

Not sure about that....I think the 2nd gen carries higher style.....

[GMTruckGuy74]

No no.. those two buy/lease new.

I know that. I was just teasin' ya!

I vote for the 2^nd Gen CTS. I liked the CTS when it originally debuted, but IMO the 2008-2013 model just blows away the 1^st Gen's styling. I'm so-so with the upcoming '14 model, not liking the rear end styling (practically everything past the B-pillar). If we were in the market for a new car, I'd really push my wife into an outgoing '13 CTS sedan (though discounted, I'm sure it'd still likely to be too pricey for our wallets).

[Robert Hall]

I've driven a couple of rental 2nd gen ('12) CTSes, one a 3.6 and one a base. Both were very nice, they seem like cars I could live with as a daily driver..very comfortable, fun on twisty roads. I do like the STS quite a bit also.

[Drew Dowdell]

I sort of wondered why the CTS didn't come up before, but I just figured you didn't like the current one and 2007 was too old. Since I am looking for under $25k rear drive cars I thought about one too, but I am not a a big fan of the bulky styling and like how the Genesis V8 more. But I need to drive an E-class because I think that is what I'll end up with. I'll probably keep the car 10 years, and Mercedes last forever.

I didn't realize the low resale values on the first generation CTS... I figured they'd all be up in the very high teens to low 20s still... for not much more, I could get the 300. At $13k for an '07 CTS with 35k miles...... I got time for that.

If you think an out of warranty Aurora is expensive to maintain... just wait till you get into an out of warranty Benz.

[Robert Hall]

If you think an out of warranty Aurora is expensive to maintain... just wait till you get into an out of warranty Benz.

Yes..I've got folders full of the last 10 years of maintenance/repair receipts for my sister's two Mercs...$1200 here, $2000 there, $4000 there....fun stuff.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[smk4565]

Recent Mercs are rated pretty high in reliability by JD Power and some others. The 2009 E-class has good scores, it was at the end of the model run and they had the bugs worked out by then.

I did find a 2006 STS-V for $21,000, but I don't want that. I've thought about the Genesis since it has the 10 year warranty and and cooled driver's seat, and for some stupid reason only the V8 E-class has the cooled driver's seat, (not on E350's) and E550's are hard to find and are thirsty and I could probably never use the power.

Edited June 4, 2013 by smk4565