40mpg + manual trans, no hybrid, '00+

[PurdueGuy]

I've started looking at options for my wife's next commuter car. Looking for some input on options I might not have thought of. She currently drives a '99 Saturn SC1.

Requirements:

- near or better than 40mpg highway

- manual trans

- 2000 or newer (newer preferred)

- not a hybrid (we buy vehicles for long-term, I'm not interested in replacing a $5k+ battery one or twice in the timespan we expect to own the car)

- reasonable to expect to be able to buy with under 50k miles for about $10k or less in a couple years

Options so far:

- Chevy Cruze Eco

- Chevy Sonic

- Chevy Spark

- Ford Focus

- Ford Fiesta

Edited April 22, 2013 by PurdueGuy

[Lamar]

Passat or Jetta TDI? But people who buy those usually keep them forever, now that I think of it...

[Turbojett]

I'm partial to the newest Focus myself. I know a few people who've recently gotten one, and it's a really sharp car. Especially in 5-door form. Haven't gotten to drive one myself yet, but the auto mags (yeah, I know, I know) have given it good reviews. As a bonus, the manual transmission is the better choice as the automatic is a DCT with very un-DCT-like behavior (slow, clunky, daft)

Also, what about the Mazda3?

Edited April 22, 2013 by Turbojett

[the_yellow_dart]

Civic

Fit

2013 Sentra

SX4

Impreza

[Drew Dowdell]

Cruze Eco

Jetta TDI

[G. David Felt]

CRUZE DIESEL Baby!!!

[PurdueGuy]

Passat or Jetta TDI? But people who buy those usually keep them forever, now that I think of it...

Not sure I'm ready to deal with VW quality issues, but I may glance at them when the time comes.

Civic

Fit

2013 Sentra

SX4

Impreza

Best mpg I can find for a 2000's Civic with a manual trans is 36mpg highway.

The fit is actually worse - 33-34mpg highway

Sentra manual trans is 36mpg highway (BTW, the best Versa is also 36mpg highway)

SX4 gets a whopping 30mpg highway

Impreza's best model is pretty impressive that it gets 36mpg highway while being AWD, but still doesn't meet the requirements

Now that I actually look up some numbers, I see that some of the cars I was looking at don't fit the bill either:

Chevy Cruze manual - 38mpg highway

Chevy Cruze Eco manual - 42mpg highway

Chevy Sonic manual 1.4L - 40mpg highway

Chevy Spark manual - 38mpg highway

Ford Focus manual - 36mpg highway

Ford Fiesta manual - 39mpg highway

[G. David Felt]

If you go used hybrid then buy the 5yr bumper to bumper warranty and have them replace the battery pack considering a used Hybrid with 50K miles will have a good chunk of the battery life used up.

[the_yellow_dart]

Passat or Jetta TDI? But people who buy those usually keep them forever, now that I think of it...

Not sure I'm ready to deal with VW quality issues, but I may glance at them when the time comes.

>Civic

Fit

2013 Sentra

SX4

Impreza

Best mpg I can find for a 2000's Civic with a manual trans is 36mpg highway.

The fit is actually worse - 33-34mpg highway

Sentra manual trans is 36mpg highway (BTW, the best Versa is also 36mpg highway)

SX4 gets a whopping 30mpg highway

Impreza's best model is pretty impressive that it gets 36mpg highway while being AWD, but still doesn't meet the requirements

Now that I actually look up some numbers, I see that some of the cars I was looking at don't fit the bill either:

Chevy Cruze manual - 38mpg highway

Chevy Cruze Eco manual - 42mpg highway

Chevy Sonic manual 1.4L - 40mpg highway

Chevy Spark manual - 38mpg highway

Ford Focus manual - 36mpg highway

Ford Fiesta manual - 39mpg highway

I sometimes forget that the American and Canadian mileage estimates are so far out of wack. Here are the Canadian highway mileage estimates. All numbers are for the MANUAL trans. Our measurement methods are obviously different, but also keep in mind that our Imperial gallon was bigger and they still use that rather than the american gallon when giving us mpg numbers (most people use l/100km now).

Civic: 52 mpg

Fit: 50 mpg

Sentra: 51 mpg

SX4: 47 mpg

Impreza: 48 mpg

Cruze: 54 mpg

Cruze Eco: 61 mpg

Sonic: 55 mpg

Spark: 55 mpg

Focus: 51 mpg

Fiesta: 55 mpg

So when you said 40 mpg highway, that didn't seem like that high of a bar to me, so I didn't even check, just listed some cars.

[regfootball]

isn't Dart 41 mpg highway?

[PurdueGuy]

I sometimes forget that the American and Canadian mileage estimates are so far out of wack. Here are the Canadian highway mileage estimates. All numbers are for the MANUAL trans. Our measurement methods are obviously different, but also keep in mind that our Imperial gallon was bigger and they still use that rather than the american gallon when giving us mpg numbers (most people use l/100km now).

Civic: 52 mpg

Fit: 50 mpg

Sentra: 51 mpg

SX4: 47 mpg

Impreza: 48 mpg

Cruze: 54 mpg

Cruze Eco: 61 mpg

Sonic: 55 mpg

Spark: 55 mpg

Focus: 51 mpg

Fiesta: 55 mpg

So when you said 40 mpg highway, that didn't seem like that high of a bar to me, so I didn't even check, just listed some cars.

Ah, that makes sense, thanks for explaining.

The SX4 is a big disappointment in the mpg category, which is a shame since it seems to have some pretty good reviews, and seems like a neat little car. Of course, I don't know if it would make sense as a long-term purchase anyway since Suzuki left the US market, and they didn't exactly sell a ton of them.

isn't Dart 41 mpg highway?

Looks like the Dart Aero with manual trans is, so it goes on the list. We'll see how the reliability shakes out in the next couple years. I like the looks & what I've heard about it so far, but where it's still brand spankin' new, and Chrysler doesn't have quite as consistent a record on reliability (and throw in the whole it's-essentially-a-Fiat thing) I can't help but feel a bit extra need for a cautious eye on the Dart until it proves itself. It also has a serious ding against it in that it requires premium, where some others like the Sonic and Cruze Eco don't.

Same goes for the Fiat 500 - it gets 40mpg highway, but requires premium.

The diesels require some similar comparison - what is the difference in fuel cost, and thus the real operating cost. However, diesels have more appeal to me since they tend to be hearty engines that last a long time, and seem to generally be easier to beat the ratings with. Plus there's just a cool factor with owning a diesel car.

Edited April 24, 2013 by PurdueGuy

[G. David Felt]

Thinking long term, take a Diesel cruze and convert it to CNG, this way cheap CNG with only 10% use of Diesel and you get awesome low cost fueling.

Course you can take and normal car and convert it to CNG and then have cheap fueling.

ROI on cost is about 1 1/2 to 3 years depending on how many miles you drive. Biggest savings around if you keep a auto long term.

[pow]

It is unlikely that any of these cars mentioned can be had for under $10,000 with fewer than 50,000 miles, especially the diesels, over the next 4 years.

Edited April 24, 2013 by pow

[ocnblu]

After a grand total of 2600 miles... no issues to report. LOVE my VW diesel.

[regfootball]

I sometimes forget that the American and Canadian mileage estimates are so far out of wack. Here are the Canadian highway mileage estimates. All numbers are for the MANUAL trans. Our measurement methods are obviously different, but also keep in mind that our Imperial gallon was bigger and they still use that rather than the american gallon when giving us mpg numbers (most people use l/100km now).

Civic: 52 mpg

Fit: 50 mpg

Sentra: 51 mpg

SX4: 47 mpg

Impreza: 48 mpg

Cruze: 54 mpg

Cruze Eco: 61 mpg

Sonic: 55 mpg

Spark: 55 mpg

Focus: 51 mpg

Fiesta: 55 mpg

So when you said 40 mpg highway, that didn't seem like that high of a bar to me, so I didn't even check, just listed some cars.

Ah, that makes sense, thanks for explaining.

The SX4 is a big disappointment in the mpg category, which is a shame since it seems to have some pretty good reviews, and seems like a neat little car. Of course, I don't know if it would make sense as a long-term purchase anyway since Suzuki left the US market, and they didn't exactly sell a ton of them.

>isn't Dart 41 mpg highway?

Looks like the Dart Aero with manual trans is, so it goes on the list. We'll see how the reliability shakes out in the next couple years. I like the looks & what I've heard about it so far, but where it's still brand spankin' new, and Chrysler doesn't have quite as consistent a record on reliability (and throw in the whole it's-essentially-a-Fiat thing) I can't help but feel a bit extra need for a cautious eye on the Dart until it proves itself. It also has a serious ding against it in that it requires premium, where some others like the Sonic and Cruze Eco don't.

Same goes for the Fiat 500 - it gets 40mpg highway, but requires premium.

The diesels require some similar comparison - what is the difference in fuel cost, and thus the real operating cost. However, diesels have more appeal to me since they tend to be hearty engines that last a long time, and seem to generally be easier to beat the ratings with. Plus there's just a cool factor with owning a diesel car.

Just to chime in on the Suzukis since I sold them,

the SX4 had really low epa ratings. the fwd ones exceeded epa, the AWD ones were tougher on gas.

The CVT automatic SX4 the mpg would go down if you did more city driving and were hard on the throttle. Generally the everyday mpg's were consistent with other competitors. That being high twenties, and in the thirties highway if it was without much stopping.

The 6 speed manual ones, made out nice with mpg but the top gear was turning more rpm at high cruising speeds than the CVT. Still, i had one guy tell me his sportback got 32-35 consistently in mixed driving. Suzuki's policy part of which did them in was to be really conservative on EPA testing numbers, to avoid Hyundai style litigation. One of the corporate people told us that.

Where this matters, despite the pullout from the market, the vehicles will still be serviced and under warranty. If you can find a preowned at a much more substantial discount than something else you are looking at, it may not be a bad idea to save some dough. The vehicles themselves are as simple as it gets in 2013 era, and parts are available for worldwide distribution. Basically if it were a low investment proposition, it might be worth looking at. A sportback SX4 with the 6 speed manual is quite a sprite little basic hatch, and even for what it lacks in style points, it makes up in simplicity and lightness. The shifter is nice and it's got enough power. 4 wheel discs, stability control, etc.

I've sort of been watching the used to prices to see if they will start to tank, and they have not yet. Everyone thought Saturn and Pontiac values would tank also. They did not.

Personally I believe Suzuki will come back to US and Canada in a few years. I think they needed to clear the books and go into hiding. The US market is too big to ignore. I don't care if they say its to pursue other emerging global markets. The GM sale and VW ownership hurt them huge.

One car that you ought to research, and I am not joking. I have wanted to check out a 2011 Saab 9-5 with stick, that is a car that plummeted in values. You could probably still find one under 20 grand and it would be a nice ride with good mpg, even if its not a 40 mpg car. FWIW, the older more base 9-3's (2004+) all get pretty good mpg.

[PurdueGuy]

I might pay some attention to the SX4 when the time comes. I can believe it does better than the EPA rating, but it would have to do very well to compete with the Sonic & Cruze Eco. And warranty is not my concern, as my ownership will far exceed any warranty. My wife's SC1 has about 150k miles on it and I'm looking to wait another 1-2 years to replace it, with a 50 mile daily commute. So the issue is long-term parts availability, and since the SX4 didn't sell in huge numbers, I question how well the aftermarket companies will pick up on parts supply, and I don't know that I can expect OEM parts availability to be good either.

Saab is the same story, except add on the issue of expensive parts anyway. I've had friends with Saabs, and they've loved them right up until they've had to repair them.

The S-Series has been different. In spite of Saturn being axed, GM is still very much around, and since they were selling 250-350k a year for 11 years (many of the parts are the same across all the years), parts availability has been no problem at all, whether OEM, aftermarket, or used.