New York Auto Show: 2014 Chevrolet Camaro & Camaro Z/28: Comments

[William Maley]

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By William Maley

Staff Writer - CheersandGears.com

March 27, 2013

Today at the New York Auto Show, Chevrolet introduced the new 2014 Camaro which features a narrower front end and revised rear end styling. These design changes add up to better aerodynamics and cooling. You still have the 3.6L V6 as the base engine, followed by the 6.2L V8 and the LSA supercharged V8.

However, the star of the 2014 Camaro lineup is the new 2014 Camaro Z/28 which is the most track capable Camaro ever built.

"We set out to make the fastest road-racing Camaro possible that was still street-legal. While the Camaro ZL1 offers exceptional performance on the street, the drag strip, and the track, the Z/28 is entirely focused on the track performance. The Z/28 will be too track-focused for most drivers, but offers road-racers one of the most capable track cars ever offered from an automaker,” said Camaro chief enginner, Al Oppenheiser.

The heart of the Z/28 is the 7.0L LS7 V8 engine. Chevrolet isn't revealing the official figures, only saying only that the Z/28 will deliver "at least 500 horsepower and 470 pound-feet of torque". A six-speed manual is the sole transmission. Other mechanical changes include a limited-slip differential, spool-valve dampers, stiffer springs, and Brembo carbon ceramic discs.

The Camaro Z/28 has also gone through a comprehensive diet, losing 300 pounds when compared to the ZL1. The diet included thinner rear glass, lighter wheels, smaller battery, removing the tire-inflator kit and sound-deadening material, and making air conditioning an option.

Outside, the Z/28 has a massive front splitter tied to a lift-curbing undertray to help with aero. Out back, a unique spoiler and diffuser help keep the Z/28 on the ground while at high speed.

Inside, the Z/28 comes with a matte-metallic finish trim named Octane, flat-bottomed steering wheel, and standard Recaro seats with microfiber suede inserts. One surprise in the Z/28 was the inclusion of a back seat. Chevrolet has modified it by eliminating the pass-through and using high-density foam.

The new 2014 Camaro arrives at dealers later this summer. The Z/28 comes out sometime in 2014.

Source: Chevrolet

William Maley is a staff writer for Cheers & Gears. He can be reached at [email protected]or you can follow him on twitter at @realmudmonster.

Press Release is on Page 2

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2014 Camaro Z/28 the Most Track-capable Camaro Ever

2013-03-27

NEW YORK – Chevrolet today introduced the restyled 2014 Camaro line at the New York Auto Show, including the return of the Z/28, the most iconic model in Camaro history.

The 2014 Camaro models feature a revised exterior design that integrates high-performance aerodynamics for more efficient cooling and stability at high speeds. The new Camaro Z/28 also features a full aerodynamics package that creates downforce at speed, which helps make it the most track-capable offering in Camaro's history.

"As the ultimate track-capable Camaro, this car restores the mission of the original Z/28, and serves as a testament to the expertise of Chevrolet as the best-selling brand of performance cars," said Mark Reuss, president, GM North America. "The build sheet is the wish list of any racer: lightweight, high-revving, dry-sump LS7 engine; carbon-ceramic brakes; integrated coolers for track use; true aerodynamic downforce, and a significant reduction in curb weight. This car could only come from Chevrolet, and could only be called the Z/28."

The first Camaro Z/28 was introduced in 1967, created to compete in the Sports Car Club of America's Trans-Am 2 class. It featured a smaller, lighter, 302-cubic-inch V-8 for improved weight balance, as well as quick-ratio steering and a heavy-duty suspension for track use. In keeping with its road-racing focus, the 1967 Camaro Z/28 was not available with an automatic transmission or air conditioning.

While the new Camaro Z/28 is not intended to compete in a specific race series, it is solely focused on track capability. In initial testing, the Camaro Z/28 is three seconds faster per lap than the Camaro ZL1. That extra speed comes from three areas:

- Increased grip: The Z/28 is capable of 1.05 g in cornering acceleration, due to comprehensive chassis revisions

- Increased stopping power: the Z/28 features Brembo carbon-ceramic brakes capable of 1.5 g in deceleration, and consistent brake feel, lap after lap

- Reduced curb weight: The naturally aspirated Z/28 weighs 300 pounds less than the supercharged Camaro ZL1, with changes ranging from lightweight wheels to thinner rear-window glass

- Like the original, the 2014 Camaro Z/28 is offered only with a manual transmission. In a nod to modern convenience, air-conditioning is available, but only as an option.

"We set out to make the fastest road-racing Camaro possible that was still street-legal," said Al Oppenheiser, Camaro chief engineer. "While the Camaro ZL1 offers exceptional performance on the street, the drag strip, and the track, the Z/28 is entirely focused on the track performance. The Z/28 will be too track-focused for most drivers, but offers road-racers one of the most capable track cars ever offered from an automaker."

The new 2014 Camaro line will arrive at Chevrolet dealers later in 2013. The Camaro Z/28 is expected to be appearing at track events across the United States in spring 2014.

High-performance aerodynamics highlight changes for 2014 Camaro

The 2014 Camaro represents the most significant redesign since the introduction of the fifth-generation Camaro as a concept car in 2006.

"The 2014 Camaro is our opportunity to apply what we have learned listening to our customers, and our continuing development of high-performance models," said Tom Peters, Camaro exterior design director. "We look for solutions that are both functional and beautiful so that the result is genuine Chevrolet – simple, powerful, honest, and more than expected."

Compared to the previous model, the design represents a strong visual change front and rear, resulting in a wider, lower, more contemporary appearance. The front fascia features a wider lower opening, and a narrower upper opening that also updates the appearance of the iconic "halo ring" HID headlamps on the Camaro RS package. The functional hood vent on the Camaro SS helps reduce heat and aerodynamic lift. Moving to the rear, the sculptural decklid, horizontal lamps and diffuser complete the powerful statement.

The Camaro Z/28 also features a full aerodynamic package designed to produce downforce at track speeds. At the front, the Z/28 features a large splitter, connected to an underbody panel that further reduces lift. In profile, the Z/28 features fender flares over the front and rear wheels, as well as extended rocker panels that contribute to aerodynamic stability. An aggressive rear spoiler and functional diffuser complete the aerodynamic package.

On the interior, the Camaro Z/28 features trim in a distinctive, matte-metallic finish named Octane, the ZL1 flat-bottomed steering wheel, and standard Recaro seats with microfiber suede inserts. The new seats (also available on the coupe versions of the SS and ZL1 models), feature aggressive bolsters for high-performance driving, as well as seat cutouts inspired by the five-point harnesses found on racing seats. To save weight, both front seats incorporate manual adjustment.

The rear seats of the Z/28 have also been modified for weight reduction. A total of nine pounds (four kilograms) was saved by eliminating the seat-back pass through, as well as using high-density foam in place of the rigid structure of the seat back and steel mesh of the seat bottom.

"Unlike the Ford Mustang Boss 302, we felt it was important to keep the 2+2 configuration of the Camaro Z/28 as Chevrolet already has a world-class two-seat sports car in the Corvette," said Oppenheiser. "By modifying the construction of the rear seat, we were able to reduce the overall weight of the Z/28 while still preserving the flexibility of 2+2 seating."

7.0L, LS7 the heart of the Camaro Z/28's track-capable performance

Like the original, the new Camaro Z/28 forgoes ultimate horsepower and torque for improved weight balance and track performance.

In 1967, the most-powerful engine available in a factory Camaro was a 396 cid V-8 with 375 horsepower. To prepare the Camaro Z/28 for road racing, engineers specified a lighter, 302 cid V-8, officially rated at 290 horsepower. While the 302 was not the choice for drag racers, it proved ideal for sports-car racing.

Today, the most-powerful engine offered is the Camaro ZL1's supercharged 6.2L LSA, which delivers 580 horsepower. The heart of the 2014 Camaro Z/28 is the lighter, naturally aspirated 7.0L LS7 first introduced in the Corvette Z06.

"The LS7 is ideal for road racing because it delivers amazing performance in a compact, lightweight package," said Jordan Lee, Small Block chief engineer and program manager. "The broad torque curve and high redline of the LS7 mean fewer shifts are required for each lap, while the lightweight design improves the front-to-rear weight balance for better handling."

Co-developed with Corvette Racing, the hand-assembled 7.0L (427 cid) V-8 uses a number of high-performance components, including:

- Titanium intake valves and connecting rods, and sodium-filled exhaust valves

- CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads

- Forged-steel crankshaft and main bearing caps

- High-lift camshaft

- Hydroformed exhaust headers

- 11.0:1 compression ratio, and a 7,000 rpm redline.

- 10.5-quart, dry-sump oiling system

For the Camaro Z/28, the LS7 features unique induction and exhaust systems, and delivers at least 500 horsepower (373 kW) and 470 lb-ft of torque (637 Nm).

The racing-style, cold-air induction system and large K&N air filter provide maximum air flow.

The standard dual mode exhaust system and larger-diameter pipes enable improved air flow. By bypassing the mufflers during acceleration, the system increases both the torque and sound generated by the LS7 engine.

The Camaro Z/28 is exclusively offered with a Tremec TR6060 manual transmission. The six-speed features close-ratio gearing and 3.91:1 final drive ratio, both optimized for the power characteristics of the LS7.

Power is distributed to the rear wheels via a limited-slip differential featuring a helical gear set, rather than traditional clutch packs. The new design enables the driver to apply more power and get through corners faster, by continuously adjusting the torque bias to maximize available traction.

The differential works in unison with Chevrolet's proprietary Performance Traction Management system, which allows drivers to adjust the level of throttle and brake intervention to match their capability and driving environment.

Unlike some competitors' "track package" offerings, the Camaro Z/28 makes standard all the cooling systems required for track use. This includes the dry-sump oiling system for the LS7, which is connected to an integral liquid-to-liquid cooling system for engine oil.

A second liquid-to-liquid system provides cooling for the transmission and differential. This system pumps overcooled transmission fluid to a heat exchanger in the rear differential before traveling to the transmission. This reduces differential temperatures as much as 100 degrees F.

Camaro Z/28 chassis delivers 1.05 g in cornering grip

The singular focus of the Camaro Z/28 is most evident in the chassis, where the most has been made of every component for track use, from the ultra-high performance tires to race-proven dampers.

"We used the very best components in the industry to deliver uncompromised performance, lap after lap," said Mark Stielow, Camaro Z/28 engineering manager. "We made nearly 200 changes to improve the track performance, which cumulatively make the Z/28 capable of 1.05 g in cornering. For perspective, with all other things, equal increasing maximum grip from 1 to 1.05 g can cut up to four seconds per lap."

The Camaro Z/28 is the one of the first production cars fitted with race-proven, spool-valve dampers. Compared to a conventional damper that offers only two-way tuning for bump and rebound, a spool-valve damper allows four-way adjustment to precisely tune both bump and rebound settings for high-speed and low-speed wheel motions. The wider tuning range allowed engineers to dramatically increase the damper stiffness on the Camaro Z/28 without a significant change in ride quality. Additional chassis changes include stiffer string rates and suspension bushings for improved cornering response.

The Camaro Z/28 features 19-inch diameter wheels and tires, which reduce unsprung weight by 42 pounds (19 kilograms) per car compared to the 20-inch wheels standard on Camaro SS and ZL1. In addition, the smaller diameter wheels lower the center of gravity by 33 millimeters, further improving handling.

At all four corners, the lightweight, forged aluminum wheels are wrapped in massive 305/30ZR19 tires. This is the first production application of ultra-high performance Pirelli PZero Trofeo R tires, and believed to be the widest front tire on any production car.

To fully exploit the grip of the Pirelli tires, the Camaro Z/28 also features Brembo Carbon Ceramic Matrix™ rotors and fixed, monoblock calipers. The large 394 x 36 mm front rotors are paired with six-piston calipers, while the 390 x 32 mm rear rotors are paired four-piston calipers. Compared to similar-size, two-piece steel rotors, the lightweight carbon discs save 28 pounds (12.5 kilograms) per car.

The combination of tire grip and braking power enable the Camaro Z/28 to achieve up to 1.5 g in deceleration. With standard front brake cooling ducts, the Z/28 is also capable of continuous track use unmatched brake feel, lap after lap.

"What makes the Z/28 so addictive is it inspires confidence through every section on the track," said Stielow. "The incredible, balanced performance helps you carry much more speed through every corner: the brakes are so good you can adjust your braking points later and later; the grip and suspension damping allows you to carry more speed through the apex; and then the limited slip allows you to make the most of the LS7 as you power out of the corner."

Extensive lightweighting saved 300 pounds over the Camaro ZL1

To optimize the track performance of the Camaro Z/28, the engineering team subjected it to an intensive lightweighting program, saving 100 pounds (45 kilograms) compared to the naturally aspirated Camaro SS and 300 pounds (136 kilograms) to the supercharged Camaro ZL1.

"We looked at every subsystem for opportunities to save weight," said Oppenheiser. "Our goal was to get rid of everything that didn't make the car faster, and keep only what was required by law. For example, we wanted to eliminate the audio system completely, but we had to keep a single speaker for the seat-belt chime to meet safety requirements."

Other examples of weight savings include:

Eliminated the tire-inflator kit, except for Rhode Island and New Hampshire, where it is required by law

Removed interior sound deadener, and carpeting from the trunk

Replaced the standard LN4 battery with a smaller, lightweight, LN3 battery

Specified thinner, 3.2-mm glass for the rear window, compared to 3.5-mm glass on the standard Camaro

HID headlamps and foglights are not available

Air conditioning is only available as a stand-alone option

"The team was so fanatical about saving weight, we even stripped the unused wiring out of the harness when we eliminated the fog lights, speakers, and air conditioning," said Oppenheiser. "Every ounce saved contributed to making this the most track-capable Camaro we have ever built, and a worthy successor to the Z/28 name."

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[hyperv6]

It will be interesting to see the reaction here. It is geared for the true gear head but will those who want all the bells and whistles cry for more options? Will GM hold to their guns and limit the car to just the gear heads for two years.

[Camino LS6]

Bravo!

Bravo Chevrolet!

I am stunned that they followed the Z/28 formula so perfectly!

This is genuine Chevrolet!

[hyperv6]

I just hope sales are solid enough to let them do this formula even better on a lighter platform. I know they did a good job killing weight with the limitations but just think what they could do from the ground up on a all new Alpha.

Mark and company did good sticking to their guns but now they need the sales to back them up. If not they may get over ruled to do this on the next car. So for all those who have called for this kind of car it is time to pony up and support it with your purchase. GM did their part now do yours.

[Camino LS6]

I think it will do just fine in the market, and yes, it bodes well for the Alpha version to come.

I wonder about a few things:

1) Did they kill the 1LE ?

2) How would a drag race of the Z/28 and the ZL-1 turn out?

EDIT: I do suspect that quite a few buyers will opt for the A/C - but I love that it is optional.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Camino LS6

[William Maley]

1) Did they kill the 1LE ?

2) How would a drag race of the Z/28 and the ZL-1 turn out?

1. 1LE will be sticking around

2. Tough call since we don't the final performance figures on the Z/28. My guess would be the ZL-1 by a hair.

[2QuickZ's]

I like this exterior much better than the current car, I think. I'm surprised they made as big of styling changes as they did. If only they would have spent a little more money reworking the interior. That is where the biggest short coming is on the current car. Well, that and obesity but the Z/28 fixes that.

[Camino LS6]

Glad to hear that the 1LE is staying.

[Camino LS6]

I'm willing to bet that they will offer a performance driving course with this car.

[Robert Hall]

Neat to see the Z/28 name come back. Couldn't imagine not ordering A/C unless I was living in the Arctic Circle (or buying to use as a race car).

[Camino LS6]

I'd have a hard time deciding on the A/C thing.

I hate hot weather, but I'd be very tempted to go with the most honest Z/28.

[Robert Hall]

I just saw a rear-end pic, looks good from behind...a bit of a '69 styling cue in the 3 element taillights w/ a twist...

[Camino LS6]

Yeah, I'm fine with the new look (except maybe the execution on the heat extractor in the hood).

Could do without the black wheels on the Z/28 - hopefully, they are optional.

[ocnblu]

Just fantastic. A true, serious sports car. Love the updates. The taillights should shut up the fools on the internet who are saying the new Stingray copied the Camaro. Absurd.

Those taillights do a great job of combining first-gen with late 2nd-gen cues. Love those! SOOOOO glad they didn't go with those uber cheesy Euro version tails. Those are so gay, in a bad way.

And I like the exclusive headlight shape of the Z/28 v. the SS, for example.

Edited March 28, 2013 by ocnblu

[Robert Hall]

I wonder how the ZL-1 will look...or the base model. So this is using the Z06 engine or a variant there of, whilst the ZL-1 uses the ZR-1 engine...nice.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[hyperv6]

Unless I was racing the car it would have air. To go air less to be noble is nutz.

I would like to see GM do some kind of racing series with these cars or do a new kind of IROC on road race tracks. With the legal issues they would have to depend on mostly Indy, NASCAR and Daytona series for drivers already in Chevys. But that would give some big names.

Or get a bunch of retired drivers like Mario, AJ, Gurney, Bell, Stuck etc. It would be fun to see them out the.

[Carguy]

There is no 5.7L V8 anywhere in this Camaro! The 6.2L V8 is the one used in non Supercharged SS and Supercharged ZL1 forms!

[Robert Hall]

I remember as a kid in Ohio in the '70s-80s my folks and my brother had many cars without air, I remember riding around on vinyl seats w/ the window down (270 or 470 air, I heard it referred to as). People put up with a lot more hardships in the olden days, I guess...I couldn't imagine not having A/C today.

Unless I was racing the car it would have air. To go air less to be noble is nutz.

I would like to see GM do some kind of racing series with these cars or do a new kind of IROC on road race tracks. With the legal issues they would have to depend on mostly Indy, NASCAR and Daytona series for drivers already in Chevys. But that would give some big names.

Or get a bunch of retired drivers like Mario, AJ, Gurney, Bell, Stuck etc. It would be fun to see them out the.

I'd love to see a modern IROC series...

[regfootball]

Z28 is a well done package. Doubt you will find one out there without the A/C at a dealer.

Not a fan of the the new front and rear though. And they didn't fix the crappy interior. Think of how long this car has languished with its killer exterior and amazing hardware, to be crippled with the junk interior design theme.

[dwightlooi]

The new tail end kinda looks like the final generation Honda Prelude. I like it though. It, along with the new front treatment, is cleaner and less cluttered than the current car's.

[hyperv6]

The interior is not great but it could be worse. They did fix the shifter and wheel which were the worst points.

I just wished people would look at the big picture and understand this was mild refresh and that the new car should be here in late 2015 at a 2016. the money and time would be much better used in the new car.

As for now it is what it is and the new front and tail fascia along with the very good left over Vette engine with a Z28 package will just have to be enough.

At least now I can see they may going less retro with the future model as the new features are less retro dependent. No mistaking them for being Chevy but less dependent on trying to look like a 6768 or 69 Camaro. Time to move on. Time to move on and create new classics.

[Camino LS6]

Is it wrong for me to daydream of a new El Camino equipped this way?

If it is, I really don't care.

[Blake Noble]

I'm still feeling lukewarm about the revised front fascia and taillights, however I do see this in the shape of the taillights (not the details):

If you're looking for a hint — if there is one — as to where the Alpha F6 Camaro may be headed in this revision, I'd say this is that hint.

[Camino LS6]

I don't really see that in the tails.

I see the change from the '67 to the '69 style more than anything else.

That said, I'd be very happy if the Alpha Camaro used second gen cues. (early second gen, that is).

[hyperv6]

The tail lights are a little mid 60's impala with a nod to the 2nd and 3rd gen in the slanted wrap.

It gives me hope the Alpha will be more of an original Camaro with just hints of the past.

The nose is Very Clean and almost has a hint of Pontiac about it to me with the side cuts. It just looks more aggressive than the usual Camaro nose. It looks as if you put a 77 beak in the center it would have made a nice BIrd.

[Camino LS6]

I never liked the original 5th gen grille (looked cartoonish to me), so I'm fine with the new face.

[hyperv6]

Well as I see it on the web emotions are mixed here.

The fact is there are two different Z/28 in the mind of the public. One is the original concept of the first 3 years where a car was built to make it legal to race. Then their is the other car built for many years that was the loaded up performance model for the Camaro line. In general many in the public are embracing the latter and rejecting this car.

It will be interesting to see how all this plays out over time.

Note too that this car will not be cheap. Anything with lap times faster then the ZR1 is not going to be cheap. Also GM will not want to sell many 7.0 liters so price will also help limit sale in respect of the Café. Yes that is a factor like it or not. [Not my opinion but GM's view].

While this car will make the purist happy the real issue remains with the general Camaro buyer. A lot of this may effect what we see in the next Gen.

I am glad they built this car but with the general reaction I suspect GM may have been better keeping the 1LE name or a new option name and replace the SS with the Z/28 name in the publics eye.

The truth be told the Z/28 name holds more equity as a model as vs. the original intent of what the original option package was. 3 years vs. how many other years we had a Z built a different image in the minds of many owners over the years. It is hard to undo that.

I just hope this controversy does not overshadow a great car. To many will miss out on a great car just because of the name plate. If you have not read many of the out cry check it out. I was surprised so many got so worked up.

This may be a good collectors car someday as there will be few of these built. It will be like the original not cheap and few in number. A true limited edition.

[Drew Dowdell]

This will be an instant classic for anyone with the checkbook to spring for one. Low production numbers + 30 months of production max. Buy it and stick it in a barn.

[hyperv6]

One problem Dew is that so many other will do the same and like some of the limited Mustangs they will be worth more than a stock one but will not be ultra rare unobtainium.

too many people today buy these and stash them when in the old days they were used up as race cars etc. How many original ZL1 Camaros have been brought back from the edge of the scrap heap and how many never came back.

You guys might want to read over on the Camaro sites as this car is causing a lot of rage on both sides right now. There are many happy people but just as many upset people too.

I saw one guy saying they did not do enough and was crying for Carbon fiber doors, hood, trunk lid and titanium exhaust. Imagine what that would add to the price that he already has no clue about. Those things on a Z06 are right at $98,000 with the carbon edition sticker I saw.

[Blake Noble]

The tail lights are a little mid 60's impala with a nod to the 2nd and 3rd gen in the slanted wrap.

It gives me hope the Alpha will be more of an original Camaro with just hints of the past.

I wouldn't be suprised if the sixth-gen Camaro is more second-gen based than first-gen based overall. Considering that the next-generation pony cars (with the exception of the 2015 Challenger, which will embrace its role as the lone muscle coupe in America) are going to be smaller and lighter in order to make them more palatable to European buyers, it's sort of fitting. The second-gen Camaro drew heavily from contemporary European sports cars and it, quite arguably, felt somewhat European early on in its day. I don't think it'll be a blatant throwback, but then again the current Camaro isn't really either.

Edited April 2, 2013 by black-knight

[hyperv6]

Word is the car is going to have some 2nd gen to it but it will not be as blatant as the present car. Sorry todays car is a modern interpretation on a 69 no matter how you try to cut it. Todays car was a show car that made it to market and it embraces the past heavily.

I would note the changes in the new car as a clue on what to expect. The new car could have a fastback like the 2nd gen but you will not pin it to any one year.

The smaller and lighter is part Europe but as Settlmire has stated CAFE is a major issue in the future of the car and a major issue they have to deal with. This segment will have to do some major changes to survive and they have to find ways to give the public what they want while giving the government what they demand.

There is little known on the new car but there will be some major changes coming. The car is in deep cover as few know much and those I know who do know are not talking like they used to be able to years ago. In fact at this point we know less on the new car than we knew on the C7 at this point of the development.

The 2nd gen was a design they lifted from some of the styling they saw in Italy. Bill Mitchell was intrigued with Italian design back then and was where he wanted to take the car. Low, fast looking and elegant. It was not by chance he had a V12 Ferrari engine installed in the Pontiac based Pegasus show car. It became his driver since they could not show the car in public with a non GM engine.

It has been a while since I have read the story on the origin of the 2nd gen but it is a interesting one.

[G. David Felt]

No matter what, some of these bad boys will end up in a Barn Find 20 years from now.

[Blake Noble]

Word is the car is going to have some 2nd gen to it but it will not be as blatant as the present car. Sorry todays car is a modern interpretation on a 69 no matter how you try to cut it. Todays car was a show car that made it to market and it embraces the past heavily.

I would note the changes in the new car as a clue on what to expect. The new car could have a fastback like the 2nd gen but you will not pin it to any one year.

The smaller and lighter is part Europe but as Settlmire has stated CAFE is a major issue in the future of the car and a major issue they have to deal with. This segment will have to do some major changes to survive and they have to find ways to give the public what they want while giving the government what they demand.

There is little known on the new car but there will be some major changes coming. The car is in deep cover as few know much and those I know who do know are not talking like they used to be able to years ago. In fact at this point we know less on the new car than we knew on the C7 at this point of the development.

The 2nd gen was a design they lifted from some of the styling they saw in Italy. Bill Mitchell was intrigued with Italian design back then and was where he wanted to take the car. Low, fast looking and elegant. It was not by chance he had a V12 Ferrari engine installed in the Pontiac based Pegasus show car. It became his driver since they could not show the car in public with a non GM engine.

It has been a while since I have read the story on the origin of the 2nd gen but it is a interesting one.

Sorry hyper, the fifth-gen isn't quite the shameless riff on the '69 Camaro you're making it out to be. There are an extremely limited handful of design cues that reference those early Camaros, the rest simply do not translate back to it. It's a design that's inspired by those early cars; it doesn't aspire to be one itself. That's the difference here and it's what makes the car overall farily non-retro versus other designs like the new Beetle and -- even though I adore it -- the Challenger.

This photo probaby says it best. Sure, it's the 2006 concept version, but it isn't that much different from the production car, as we both know.

I can only spot three major cues that reference the old car on the fifth-gen: the way the beltline and the leading edge of the front fender interface with one another, the shape of the "hips" in the rear quarter panel, and the line that bisects the middle of the car. I would include the daylight opening here, but it's actually very different from the original car. In fact, even the three cues that visually link the new Camaro to the old one are all somehow subtly different from the original. Granted, they all are significant in giving the car a similar feel to the old one, but nothing was directly lifted from the original.

That same line of thinking will probably continue with the upcoming car. It'll probably reference the old car in the roofline, like you said, and possibly the daylight opening and profile lines of the car, but it won't look exactly the same by any means.

While there isn't a lot of info out there on the sixth-generation Camaro, it isn't all that hard to fill in the blanks.

Camaro: An American Icon is probably one of the best books out there that documents the design process of the second-generation Camaro. It's one of the reasons why I bought a copy of it. The second-generation Camaro was inspired by various Ferraris -- in particular, the 250 SWB (in fact, the two have a hell of a lot in common) -- as well as the Jaguar E-Type. According to Pete Estes on page 44 of the book, "We wanted it to last like a Ferrari. There is no reason to change cars so often if you do the job right." I'd say they did the job right because the second-gen lasted for 11 frigging years. That's ancient even by standards back then and today, and even though the car was so old by the time it was finished paying its dues on the market, it never had a bad sales year.

[G. David Felt]

Very cool info, Thanks for sharing

[hyperv6]

Word is the car is going to have some 2nd gen to it but it will not be as blatant as the present car. Sorry todays car is a modern interpretation on a 69 no matter how you try to cut it. Todays car was a show car that made it to market and it embraces the past heavily.

I would note the changes in the new car as a clue on what to expect. The new car could have a fastback like the 2nd gen but you will not pin it to any one year.

The smaller and lighter is part Europe but as Settlmire has stated CAFE is a major issue in the future of the car and a major issue they have to deal with. This segment will have to do some major changes to survive and they have to find ways to give the public what they want while giving the government what they demand.

There is little known on the new car but there will be some major changes coming. The car is in deep cover as few know much and those I know who do know are not talking like they used to be able to years ago. In fact at this point we know less on the new car than we knew on the C7 at this point of the development.

The 2nd gen was a design they lifted from some of the styling they saw in Italy. Bill Mitchell was intrigued with Italian design back then and was where he wanted to take the car. Low, fast looking and elegant. It was not by chance he had a V12 Ferrari engine installed in the Pontiac based Pegasus show car. It became his driver since they could not show the car in public with a non GM engine.

It has been a while since I have read the story on the origin of the 2nd gen but it is a interesting one.

Sorry hyper, the fifth-gen isn't quite the shameless riff on the '69 Camaro you're making it out to be. There are an extremely limited handful of design cues that reference those early Camaros, the rest simply do not translate back to it. It's a design that's inspired by those early cars; it doesn't aspire to be one itself. That's the difference here and it's what makes the car overall farily non-retro versus other designs like the new Beetle and -- even though I adore it -- the Challenger.

This photo probaby says it best. Sure, it's the 2006 concept version, but it isn't that much different from the production car, as we both know.

I can only spot three major cues that reference the old car on the fifth-gen: the way the beltline and the leading edge of the front fender interface with one another, the shape of the "hips" in the rear quarter panel, and the line that bisects the middle of the car. I would include the daylight opening here, but it's actually very different from the original car. In fact, even the three cues that visually link the new Camaro to the old one are all somehow subtly different from the original. Granted, they all are significant in giving the car a similar feel to the old one, but nothing was directly lifted from the original.

That same line of thinking will probably continue with the upcoming car. It'll probably reference the old car in the roofline, like you said, and possibly the daylight opening and profile lines of the car, but it won't look exactly the same by any means.

While there isn't a lot of info out there on the sixth-generation Camaro, it isn't all that hard to fill in the blanks.

Camaro: An American Icon is probably one of the best books out there that documents the design process of the second-generation Camaro. It's one of the reasons why I bought a copy of it. The second-generation Camaro was inspired by various Ferraris -- in particular, the 250 SWB (in fact, the two have a hell of a lot in common) -- as well as the Jaguar E-Type. According to Pete Estes on page 44 of the book, "We wanted it to last like a Ferrari. There is no reason to change cars so often if you do the job right." I'd say they did the job right because the second-gen lasted for 11 frigging years. That's ancient even by standards back then and today, and even though the car was so old by the time it was finished paying its dues on the market, it never had a bad sales year.

Word is the car is going to have some 2nd gen to it but it will not be as blatant as the present car. Sorry todays car is a modern interpretation on a 69 no matter how you try to cut it. Todays car was a show car that made it to market and it embraces the past heavily.

I would note the changes in the new car as a clue on what to expect. The new car could have a fastback like the 2nd gen but you will not pin it to any one year.

The smaller and lighter is part Europe but as Settlmire has stated CAFE is a major issue in the future of the car and a major issue they have to deal with. This segment will have to do some major changes to survive and they have to find ways to give the public what they want while giving the government what they demand.

There is little known on the new car but there will be some major changes coming. The car is in deep cover as few know much and those I know who do know are not talking like they used to be able to years ago. In fact at this point we know less on the new car than we knew on the C7 at this point of the development.

The 2nd gen was a design they lifted from some of the styling they saw in Italy. Bill Mitchell was intrigued with Italian design back then and was where he wanted to take the car. Low, fast looking and elegant. It was not by chance he had a V12 Ferrari engine installed in the Pontiac based Pegasus show car. It became his driver since they could not show the car in public with a non GM engine.

It has been a while since I have read the story on the origin of the 2nd gen but it is a interesting one.

Sorry hyper, the fifth-gen isn't quite the shameless riff on the '69 Camaro you're making it out to be. There are an extremely limited handful of design cues that reference those early Camaros, the rest simply do not translate back to it. It's a design that's inspired by those early cars; it doesn't aspire to be one itself. That's the difference here and it's what makes the car overall farily non-retro versus other designs like the new Beetle and -- even though I adore it -- the Challenger.

This photo probaby says it best. Sure, it's the 2006 concept version, but it isn't that much different from the production car, as we both know.

I can only spot three major cues that reference the old car on the fifth-gen: the way the beltline and the leading edge of the front fender interface with one another, the shape of the "hips" in the rear quarter panel, and the line that bisects the middle of the car. I would include the daylight opening here, but it's actually very different from the original car. In fact, even the three cues that visually link the new Camaro to the old one are all somehow subtly different from the original. Granted, they all are significant in giving the car a similar feel to the old one, but nothing was directly lifted from the original.

That same line of thinking will probably continue with the upcoming car. It'll probably reference the old car in the roofline, like you said, and possibly the daylight opening and profile lines of the car, but it won't look exactly the same by any means.

While there isn't a lot of info out there on the sixth-generation Camaro, it isn't all that hard to fill in the blanks.

Camaro: An American Icon is probably one of the best books out there that documents the design process of the second-generation Camaro. It's one of the reasons why I bought a copy of it. The second-generation Camaro was inspired by various Ferraris -- in particular, the 250 SWB (in fact, the two have a hell of a lot in common) -- as well as the Jaguar E-Type. According to Pete Estes on page 44 of the book, "We wanted it to last like a Ferrari. There is no reason to change cars so often if you do the job right." I'd say they did the job right because the second-gen lasted for 11 frigging years. That's ancient even by standards back then and today, and even though the car was so old by the time it was finished paying its dues on the market, it never had a bad sales year.

Sorry styling is subjective and while you see the glass half full I see it half empty.

You can dance all around it as much as you like the in the eyes of the public this car is a modern retro take off of a 69 Camaro.

Even GM did not hide the fact they wanted the car to be considered as a modern version of the 69 or they would not have taken this photo of them together at the tech center. Or should they have pulled a 82 Camaro out of the collection since it looks so much like an 1982?

I will not say you are wrong but I can tell you one thing Slice it and dice all you like the image of the car was based on the 69. Just ask anyone what past Camaro it looks like. I would never mistake it for a 70 split bumper heritage. LOL!

I look for them to move a little farther away from using a specific year as an image but it will have tell tale cues that will scream Camaro from several different Gens. The new tail lights alone scream 66 Impala with a late 2nd gen and 3rd gen wrap to them.

The nose is showing more of the new Chevy face and shares more with the new Impala.

I think we will see a more original car but you will not see them parking a specific year next to it for comparison.

In the end 50% will love it 50 % will hate it and in the end 80% of the haters will get over it in 6 months.

The first one up will be the Mustang people. I think it will be very painful at Ford for a while as the retro theme was there much longer and their owners are not as open minded to new and fresh styling. They have boxed their stylist into a corner for much too long.

With out new fresh styling there will never be new classics just old rehashed ideas.

The C7 is a good example of a image of a Vette but in a fresh new way and not afraid to do some new things to advance the styling. I would hate to be a 911 owner as there is a new highly advanced car under those old looking duds.

[hyperv6]

Very cool info, Thanks for sharing

You should read up on Bill Mitchell if you have not. He is very interesting and learned from Harley Earl that if you steal ideas steal them from the best. Many of GMs best styling elements were taken from the best in nature and even other auto makers in Europe. Harley never hide the fact he took some of his best ideas form some of the worlds greatest cars. Bill also did the same.

I love the story on the Black and Gold TA and the screaming Chicken. Mitchell hated the bird until John Schinella painted the black and gold of Mitchell well loved Norton John Player Triumph motorcycle. After he saw it in this trim he approved the bird.

[hyperv6]

Very cool info, Thanks for sharing

You should read up on Bill Mitchell if you have not. He is very interesting and learned from Harley Earl that if you steal ideas steal them from the best. Many of GMs best styling elements were taken from the best in nature and even other auto makers in Europe. Harley never hide the fact he took some of his best ideas form some of the worlds greatest cars. Bill also did the same.

I love the story on the Black and Gold TA and the screaming Chicken. Mitchell hated the bird until John Schinella painted the black and gold of Mitchell well loved Norton John Player Triumph motorcycle. After he saw it in this trim he approved the bird.

No matter what, some of these bad boys will end up in a Barn Find 20 years from now.

Sad truth is few will be barn finds. Too many people buy these cars today and store them away and send them to auction later on. What made the original collector cars like an original Z/28 or ZL1 so valuable is they were expensive, most were used up as race cars and most were horrible street cars and were not meant for daily driving. Few bought them and those who did destroyed them. Today only people with money buy them and too many just store them away so it is never hard to find a low mileage clean original.

Todays collectables for the future are often the ones no one wants today or one that did get used up. GMC Syclones and Grand Nationals in original condition with low miles are difficult to find. A Turbo GTA pace car will see higher values in time as it is a pace car and also the only 3rd gen turbo. Even a 86-87 2+2 may find a better value in the future as there are so few and not many saved them.

[G. David Felt]

I will put the Trailblazer SS AWD in this bucket that finding low mileage in good shape one will be hard to find. While I keep mine in mint condition, I do enjoy driving it and while it is a 2008, it has only 42K miles on it, but with the wife driving it daily now, I expect it to rack up the miles.

Fun auto's should be driven. IMHO.

[Camino LS6]

Hyper has something of a point on this. I may not entirely agree, but I will say that if a car like the current COPO Camaro where street legal in 2013 (like the car it is named for), it would be the future barn find 5th gen.

Some stuff just isn't possible anymore.

[ocnblu]

I see a blend of '68 and '69 in the current car. The lack of speed lines off the wheel arches erases a blatant '69 vibe for me. It has the smooth sides of the '67-'68, but with the quarter panel hash marks from the '69. The front is so-so '69, or '67-'68. The taillights are unique, set in a rear end that could be '67-'69 inspired.

I would like to see the next car break clean from the past... but it must have the FEEL of a Chevy Camaro in the design. The '70-'73 would be a great place to look for a bit of inspiration, but not as a carbon copy.

[hyperv6]

Hyper has something of a point on this. I may not entirely agree, but I will say that if a car like the current COPO Camaro where street legal in 2013 (like the car it is named for), it would be the future barn find 5th gen.

Some stuff just isn't possible anymore.

There may still be some jewels out there but often they are overlooked till years later.

Many COPO cars were not worth a dime for years as they were either used up or made poor street cars. The Superbird was discounted by dealers to get rid of them a year or so after they were dumped on dealers because back then people made fun of the looks.

Also factor in how many people hid these cars away back then. If 10% were kept in prime condition or original condition you would be lucky when today 90% or more are left stock and in the wrapper.

Today everyone wants the next Cobra or Ferrari 250 GTO and years ago you could not give them away. Hell in the 70's people pulled Hemi engines and big blocks and tossed them out as they did not want to pay the money for gas if they could get it in 73.

The key to a high valued car is often surprise. Often supply and demand is key and often the high value comes when the supply is very low because no one saved the cars. Today it will be hard to predict some future prized cars. One I will watch is the HHR SS panel. They were built in the hundreds. With the styling and the fact most are being used up few will be left in good condition. It is one I suspect may surprise in the future. The Solstice Turbo Coupe too as there are few and I have seen few put away by collectors.

[Camino LS6]

G8 GXP

Scyclone

Typhoon

[hyperv6]

G8 GXP

Scyclone

Typhoon

Not sure on the G8 with the second coming of the SS.

On the other two they will be players if you can get parts.

That will be the real issue on many of the 80's cars as the plastics and electronics give up and few will be reproduced.

My side glass in my Fiero has some fine scratches and the OE glass in next to impossible to find for the doors. I found someone that had LOF reproduce the glass in the original molds and I was lucky to get them when I did as they are nearly sold out after a month. I show the cars so the small scratched from the fail GM pad were an issue for me. Nearly every Fiero has these scratches and generally all the used glass is trash even on low mileage cars. The rear window Is almost gone from supplies and taking a used one out in one piece is difficult.

I expect Camaro and Mustangs to see a lot of repo parts and some Monte SS but many others will struggle. Just talk to a guy restoring a SVO Mustang and see how difficult it is.

[G. David Felt]

I think we are also over looking other great options that will appreciate in time.

Trailblazer SS is top on my list.

[hyperv6]

I think we are also over looking other great options that will appreciate in time.

Trailblazer SS is top on my list.

Oh there will be more from the 90's on but it is too early to tell. Most of the cars done by the GM performance group like the Trailblazer SS and my HHR SS are cars a cut above the regular production cars in not only engine but suspension tuning. I could make a long list of prospects but it is early.

Generally it all comes to supply and demand and while some may be cool cars if there is a large supply and not as much demand the prices will be ok but not big money. Look at cool cars like the Corvair and Fiero where they are very special cars and have a good sized following. Even with a good following demand vs supply is a killer on value. In the case of the Fiero in the short time it was with us they built nearly 350,000 units. Even with 1/3 being V6 is not much help on value. I can still buy a low or zero mile model someone stored away for less than $20K fully loaded. Now if I stick a Ferrari body on it and a SBC I can get the $20K after spending $25K LOL.

The fact is out side some of the GM performance cars there are few of the 500 or less built cars out there and if there are they are many are stored away so finding a low mile model is not hard to do if you really want one.

Most rare and valuable cars just happen and are not created. No one knew when the 250 GTO was built in such low numbers that demand would ever grow to what it has become.