New York Auto Show: 2014 Cadillac CTS: Comments

[hyperv6]

CD player?

Why don't you ask for a Cosset player too. LOL! CD's are on the fast track out and while many even myself still have them everything is going blue tooth and will play from you phone or MP3 player. Even Chevy did away with the multi disc in 09 as I have the last year of the 6 disc. Even then I have my discs burned with MP3 files to nearly 800 songs in my player.
To be honest I am loving the blue tooth and Pandora in the new GMC.

Hell I even stream the audio from my Dish Network sling device through my phone and Intellilink and I can listen to anything on my satellite TV.

DSG = ick

Why?

Because from a purist stand point it is blasphemy. Some are having a hard time adjusting to the new decade. They will really hate the next ten years.

[Robert Hall]

CD player?

Why don't you ask for a Cosset player too. LOL! CD's are on the fast track out and while many even myself still have them everything is going blue tooth and will play from you phone or MP3 player. Even Chevy did away with the multi disc in 09 as I have the last year of the 6 disc. Even then I have my discs burned with MP3 files to nearly 800 songs in my player.

I have about 9000 tracks on my iPod, but audio from the iPod sounds weak in the car compared to a CD.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[hyperv6]

The GM photos make the car look fine but like many GM cars they do not give the full impact or impression. I think many who love the car now will love it even more when they see it.

Given Cadillac's lack of investment and commitment to Europe, I hope to see the new CTS next time I go to the US (or, if I'm lucky, maybe on one of my trips to Sweden).

With GM's track record, it would be interesting to have a thread for people to post their plan on how GM should bring their product line to Europe. I think people outside of the box might actually have a better chance on selling the luxury line (cadillac) and mid lux line (Buick) to Europe.

Buick is here as Opel: I expect that the core products for those two will be exactly the same in the next iterations. The trick for Opel to bridge the gap to VW (the brand, not the group) pricing is for Opel to continue to offer near-flawless product like the Astra and Insignia for the next 2 or 3 prodcut cycles and beyond. That helps Chevrolet also.

Cadillac needs time and dedication; it needs a proper dealer network (I think that pairing Cadillac with existing Chevrolet and Opel dealers could be interesting as long as the showroom floors are separate - Cadillac needs exclusive showrooms); and while all that is being put in motion Cadillac needs diesels for its existing lineup (a 4-cyl and a 6-cyl) and just as important it needs a car in the A8/7-Series/S-Class segment destined not to sell or be the most profitable of flagships, but to make a bold statement: kind of like it being the Escalade of sedans. I think the Ciel is the perfect basis for that flagship car, as the Ciel cues in the CTS worked out quite well.

As for Europe what GM needed to do is have products that were competitive with what was available there in their eyes. Also they needed a crack in the market and with the economy there being down the price of a Cadlillac may be just enough to get people to give them a try, More car for the money.

I never understood why GM did not form dealers as a GM dealer there and sell all the models under one roof. I am sure there are reasons they have avoided this but until the volume is there the support of many brands would give these dealers strength.

In Maui there is one GM dealer and it has for years sold ever make and model of GM. It is a strong dealer and with the low volume of each has thrived.

We also need to expect that Cadillac in Europe is not going to be a over night success. It will take time, patients and careful marketing to grow the brand there. Having the right product is a good start but earning trust is the key. People will buy imports there but you have to earn their trust and give them a good reason to buy. The Asian makes have made inroads so Cadillac can too but they just need to be smart.

[Robert Hall]

In Maui there is one GM dealer and it has for years sold ever make and model of GM. It is a strong dealer and with the low volume of each has thrived.

Key West, Florida has also had a dealer like that for decades...pretty neat, I remember going to it as a kid in the early '80s and seeing models from all 6 brands on one lot.

[smk4565]

Europe will be tough to crack, even if they put diesels in the ATS and CTS. Their overall product portfolio is still not strong enough, and Cadillac doesn't have the brand image or marketing needed, or the dealer network. Even with the dealer network and better cars, they still lose on image, possibly the #1 reason for buying a luxury car.

[2QuickZ's]

Europe will be tough to crack, even if they put diesels in the ATS and CTS. Their overall product portfolio is still not strong enough, and Cadillac doesn't have the brand image or marketing needed, or the dealer network. Even with the dealer network and better cars, they still lose on image, possibly the #1 reason for buying a luxury car.

Hmm. This is a tough one. They currently have ATS, CTS, XTS, SRX and Escalade. What of those should they even consider trying to sell in Europe? ATS & CTS for sure. SRX yes. XTS and Escalade? Probably not worth the effort.

I think if GM made a serious effort in Europe, the ATS and new CTS could do quite well. Will they commit to the powertrains that would be required to make it a serious effort? Small displacement gas and diesel engines in the ATS and CTS? A larger "performance" diesel in the CTS? Manual transmissions available? Will they build them in RHD? Will they build wagon variants of each? That would be required. A coupe would be nice but probably not necessary. A diesel in the SRX?

It could work if GM was committed to making it work. The problem is, I think GM would be happy just to have Cadillac being a respected niche player in that market, at least in the short term, so I don't think they would make the commitment required for a serious effort.

Edited April 6, 2013 by 2QuickZ's

[hyperv6]

They have two models and a third with the Omega car. I also think there is a limited market for Limo style XTS and a limited number of Escalades. I ship tons of parts to Europe for GM SUV's as there is a small core group there that love them.

Merging Cadillac into a GM dealer with the present Chevy and maybe Opel and Vauxhall may help support a stronger dealer network vs. them all going it alone. Lets face it even Opel could use some help now with new and different product since they are struggling in Europe themselves.

I will wait till I know more on the other new products like the SRX before I will decide if they are good for Europe. I suspect the SRX will be a surprising change over the present one and It just may fit in to Europe well too.

GM and Cadillac will not be #1 soon and nor do they have to be. They just need to build a strong profitable arm there and keep working on it.

Anyone who thinks they will be or expect to be number one there in 10 years is a fool.

The fact is you have got to have skin in the game. If you do enter a market you can work to build it up but if you never enter the market you will never gain any share. No one said it would be easy and a fast market climb but it is damn impossible if you do not enter the market.

The key here again is just to have a profitable operation and worry about volume later. The key for GM is to work smarter not just harder.

Edited April 6, 2013 by hyperv6

[smk4565]

Lexus's top 2 sellers in Europe are the RX (which has a hybrid) and the CT200h (a hybrid hatchback). Those 2 are over 50% of Lexus' European sales, because they like hatchbacks and high fuel economy there. But still they sell in tiny volume compared to the Germans. Cadillac's cars don't fit over there, no diesels, no hybrids, no hatchbacks and the CTS wagon just died. ATS and CTS are a start, but 2 cars doesn't make a lineup.

Money is the other factor, when Lexus spent $1 billion to build the first LS400, Mercedes turned around and spent $1 billion to redesign the S-class (already the class leader) for 1991. The Germans aren't going to let anyone just waltz on in, they will double down and drive newcomers right back out.

I think at some point Cadillac has to try, they can't just sit on the sidelines forever, but it is a near impossible task to take the Germans on in Europe when they can't beat them in the USA.

Edited April 6, 2013 by smk4565

[balthazar]

Cadillac's omission in Europe is not offering mass-volume, stripped-down, entry-level fleet cars. That's the bulk of volume for the Germans in Europe, and until Cadillac matches that, their volume can only hope to be as good as the slim retail sales the Germans have there; not enough to survive on. Reputation is secondary at best, more likely tertiary.

[hyperv6]

Cadillac's omission in Europe is not offering mass-volume, stripped-down, entry-level fleet cars. That's the bulk of volume for the Germans in Europe, and until Cadillac matches that, their volume can only hope to be as good as the slim retail sales the Germans have there; not enough to survive on. Reputation is secondary at best, more likely tertiary.

This is about profits not volume. GM can make it there at lower volumes but they need to be smart and sell the cars in the right markets at the right prices. They do need to grow the volumes but they will never need to resort to the dumping of gutted models over there as they will never match the shear volumes of Benz as they do not need to.

Cadillac last month out sold Audi here but odds are Audi made more profit. The one who wins makes more money not cars.

Reputation can be lost in one sordid night but can take years to build. Cadillac needs to build it's rep back one model year at a time. Once proven to be back on track you can win back peoples trust. This is not a one year we are back deal.

[hyperv6]

Lexus's top 2 sellers in Europe are the RX (which has a hybrid) and the CT200h (a hybrid hatchback). Those 2 are over 50% of Lexus' European sales, because they like hatchbacks and high fuel economy there. But still they sell in tiny volume compared to the Germans. Cadillac's cars don't fit over there, no diesels, no hybrids, no hatchbacks and the CTS wagon just died. ATS and CTS are a start, but 2 cars doesn't make a lineup.

Money is the other factor, when Lexus spent $1 billion to build the first LS400, Mercedes turned around and spent $1 billion to redesign the S-class (already the class leader) for 1991. The Germans aren't going to let anyone just waltz on in, they will double down and drive newcomers right back out.

I think at some point Cadillac has to try, they can't just sit on the sidelines forever, but it is a near impossible task to take the Germans on in Europe when they can't beat them in the USA.

The new SRX will better fit Europe with the massive weight loss. Cadillac has a Diesel coming as well as they have indicated that they are looking as even smaller cars and hatches not necessarly meant for the US market. Cadillac has dropped clues that they are working on much more than we even have a clue.

Just look at the reaction to the CTS as until they showed it few really had a clue what to expect and many were wrong on what they predicted.

No it is not going to be a cake walk but they need to be global. They will do fine in the NA market and China and only really need to be profitable player in Europe. Just look at how many years Audi was just a low volume car in the US market and finally has worked their way up. They will never be number one here but they are making money and enjoy good sales. Lets face it years ago their rep for rust and unintended acceleration was horrid but they have turned it around and are doing fine here.

This is not a game where you have to be #1 everywhere. Cadillac just needs to try to be number one here and make money elsewhere. The spoils will come with time.

[smk4565]

Cadillac definitely has to go global, but the road will be long and expensive. I don't know if GM wants to make that sort of commitment. Mercedes has 28 new or redesigned models coming in the next 7 years, and Audi and BMW aren't holding back either. I'd like to see Cadillac make a run at it, but I just can't see GM putting billions upon billions of Dollars into Cadillac to make it happen. Cadillac doesn't stick with things over time, their longest surviving nameplate is the Escalade which came out in 1999, and they have had 5 marketing agencies since 2007.

Here is what Cadillac needs in the next 3 years:

- 8 or 9 speed automatic standard on every model

- hybrid drivetrain (either I4 or V6)

- turbo diesel 4 cylinder, turbo diesel V6

- ATS coupe and convertible

- CTS coupe and wagon (but the wagon won't sell here)

- 4-door coupe slotted above the CTS

- full size luxury sedan

- 2 seat sports car/roadster

- all new Escalde

- all new SRX

- V-series of ATS, CTS, big sedan, SRX (if rear drive) and the sports car

That all is going to cost a lot, and I don't know if the General's pockets are deep enough, they still need to feed Buick and GMC and redo the Malibu.

[hyperv6]

8 Speed is coming soon.

A form of Hybrid is coming ETA?

Cadillac will have a Diesel for China and Europe

Coupe Possible convertible smarter move than a 2 seat sports car. These are more important for So Cal vs. Munich.

I expect a wagon for Europe but in a ATS more than a CTS. Could be three door?

No need for a 4 door coupe at this time. It is more a styling/marketing gimmick than a real coupe.

LTS is coming

Sports cars are nice but they are just frosting on the cake, Cadillac needs to get the cake right first.

New Escalde is coming

All new SRX is coming

V series is coming but the SRX will remain AWD/FWD. Again no sports car till they get everything else right.

The Malibu is paid for as they had expected to do a refresh soon as it was an old design Slow sales just reinforced it. Buick Is well on the way already.

Cadillac is doing well with the 3 cars they have and the SUV mix they have coming.

But like all things this will take some more time. GM knew going in from the Chapter 11 it would take them 10 years to get to where they would like to be and then expand from there. With a drunk recovery is one day at a time. With an automaker in this bad of a stew it is one model year at a time.

Build the core business up with the sedans and SUV's. Establish profits make the division secure then go for volume and then expand from there.

[smk4565]

But BMW and Lexus have an 8-speed now, Mercedes will have 9-speed in 2014.

Mercedes and BMW each make 4 convertibles, Audi has 3.

Audi, BMW and Mercedes all make a 4-door coupe.

BMW and Mercedes each make 2 SUVs with over 500 hp.

Back in 2003 when the CTS came out, Cadillac had the STS coming to fight the E-class, the XLR coming to fight the SL, the SRX coming to fight the X5 and M-class and Cadillac only had a 5-speed but a 6-speed was coming, a supercharged V8 was coming, then when it all arrived the Germans had something better and the STS, XLR and SRX all tanked. Cadillac has to move faster.

[hyperv6]

You can plead all this as you like but GM is not going to go head to head in each and every segment against each and ever car they offer in Europe. Only fool would try to take that on at one time.

GM will work to secure a footing in the sedan segment and build from there. Cadillac can not and will not be all things to all people in Europe but they can build a relationship with the public and build from there. BMW and Audi all started here with only a few models in a couple segments and did not try to challenge Cadillac or anyone else head to head in ever segment.

Right now the market is down in the dirt over there. Selling cars is difficult for even the home teams. With many buyers not buying and down sizing the market is prime for a well priced ATS to land and help lure buyer to take a chance on the. GM can under cut the prices of the others and offer as much or more car. You will not win them all over but there will be many willing to give them a try just as many here are moving to Hyundai here for the same reasons.

Like I stated GM is not going to go and become number one next year or even in ten years. The key it so establish a line of profitable cars and rebuild a reputation that will enable you to build more expensive cars and challenge in the other segments as the market allows.

Right now Benz and BMW are in a panic because they know they will need to enter the small car segment. They also know they will have to enter the FWD segment too. Here is an area that Cadillac can more than challenge but even beat them with their technology and engineer of these cars for years. Audi as VW to fall back on but Benz and BMW are pretty much on their own accept for some borrowing from Mini.

The way the market is there now will be a shadow of what it will be in 10-12 years. The new segments and challenges will be great for two companies that are now struggling in their home markets now. The Green movement will only get larger over there and things will change more and more as the public lets the liberal Environmental parties get their ways. Once that ground is given up it will be difficult to reclaim the ground back. the congestion tax in London is only the beginning.

Cadillac just needs to work smarter and not harder. Pick and choose their segments as they go and build on the reputation with quality and service. It matters little who sells the most cars there but it does matter makes the most money per unit.

While you sit here worried about how many gears the Germans are more worried on how the will sell FWD after years of bashing it.

[smk4565]

Cadillacs convertibles, coupes, sports cars, 4-door coupes, etc for the USA, before they even get to Europe. BMW and Benz have so many model variants they attract a wide array of buyers. Compare to Lincoln, Acura, Infiniti who mostly have used a 2-3 sedan line and a couple cookie cutter SUVs based off a Honda or Nissan.

The Germans aren't worried, Audi already sells the A3 hatch, the new A3 sedan will sell better and attract a new kind of buyer, although perhaps a VW buyer. The Mercedes CLA will sell, and probably steal a lot of people off Acura, Volvo, VW, etc.

[hyperv6]

We already know they will have some coupes and more likely a convertible for the US market in the future. They can translate to the Euro market when the time is right.

I love sports cars but that is last on the list of needs at Cadillac right now. When the time is right then pull the trigger. Besides it will give them time to let people forget about the last two botched attempts.

I already pointed out the Audi is ok. The small cars are all shared with VW. The new Benz may or may not sell. Time will tell The price will pick up on those who just want the Benz image here but in Europe how will it play with the home crowd.

As for Lincoln, Acura and Infiniti they all have little in common with the others. If anything they are all good targets for Buick once they get their new product.