June '06 C&D Impala SS Roadtest

[american_driver]

The current issue of Car and Driver did a full road test of the Impala SS. Even though the test numbers looked very good, they pretty much panned it. The said that the driving dynamics were unrewarding.

They did say that it was a good effort with an 18 year old platform.......

Thought the LTZ would be a more rewarding drive.

[Paolino]

The current issue of Car and Driver did a full road test of the Impala SS.  Even though the test numbers looked very good, they pretty much panned it.  The said that the driving dynamics were unrewarding.

They did say that it was a good effort with an 18 year old platform.......

Thought the LTZ would be a more rewarding drive.

Well, in C&D's defense, it is an OLD platform that even gets mocked by people here who are GM enthusiasts for it's shortcomings.

But, are you that surprised? It's FWD, has less hp than the 300C, c'mon... it seems as though GM is not going to do any good by critics' standards.

[pow]

Well, before we scream "BIAS!", they loved the Grand Prix GXP.

[Northstar]

The GP GXP is tuned to be much sportier. I've heard that people have tested both and the Impala SS floats and wallows in comparison, and isn't as tight as the GXP.

[Intrepidation]

Too bad the GXP torque steers like hell

[Northstar]

Too bad the GXP torque steers like hell

Umm, no it doesn't. They did a test in C&D a while ago and it didn't torque steer much because GM put wider front tires on it which reduced torque steer and made it handle better.

But in the Grand Prix GXP, with more horsepower (303 at 5600 rpm) and a lot more torque (323 pound-feet at 4400 rpm), torque steer is not a serious issue. There are hints—a little tugging when the driver cracks the throttle at low speed—but no real wrestling.

Instead of four tires of equal size, the GXP has a lot more rubber up front than at the rear: Bridgestone Potenza RE050As, 255/45-18 front, 225/50-18 rear.

http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/9964...d-prix-gxp.html

[pow]

Umm, no it doesn't. They did a test in C&D a while ago and it didn't torque steer much because GM put wider front tires on it which reduced torque steer and made it handle better.

http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/9964...d-prix-gxp.html

Actually, putting wider front tires only magnifies the torque steer. The reason why it's mild on the GXP is because of tire design, "the way the piles were wrapped", that prevents the "sidewalls [from distorting]... affecting directional stability".

:AH-HA_wink:

[daves87rs]

Ah, the Impy is more of a cruiser...windows down kinda car.

And you can light the tires every now and again...

for a 18 year old platform, it's about as good as it is going to get...

[Croc]

Ah, the Impy is more of a cruiser...windows down kinda car.

And you can light the tires every now and again...

for a 18 year old platform, it's about as good as it is going to get...

Except the GXP is better and on the same platform...

[Paolino]

Except the GXP is better and on the same platform...

He said "about" as good as you're gonna get. Let's face it, the platform is old, and it's going. Anyway, I prefer the interior to the Impala over the Grand Prix... so to me, overall they're about equal.

[DetroitNut90]

To be fair, the W-body is about as old as I am, so of course they are going to float a bit-they were developed in the late 80s, back when handling isnt what it is now. I would think that an Impala SS still handles better than a Camry. Still, GM should get some credit for at least trying to make a sporty sedan. It is a nice placeholder for the time being until the 2009 model rolls out.

[Intrepidation]

Umm, no it doesn't. They did a test in C&D a while ago and it didn't torque steer much because GM put wider front tires on it which reduced torque steer and made it handle better.

http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/9964...d-prix-gxp.html

Oh? Read this then:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...rticleId=106626

Torque Steer City

Stuffing a V8 into a front-wheel-drive platform is a surefire recipe for torque steer, and Pontiac's engineers have cooked up plenty of it. Hammering the pedal at any speed causes the car to dart around like there's a drunk behind the wheel. And laying into it from a dead stop, even with GXP's traction control turned on, results in immediate wheelspin, which slows the Grand Prix's acceleration.

It seems odd that the two road tests had different experiences, but the point is that it exists.

[regfootball]

i waited patiently all last summer for the Impala SS to come out.

then, on the day i finally was able to test drive one, I also drove a new base 06 Passat 4 cylinder automatic.

to sum up, the Passat was much more fun, and in the end i leased a snoozer or snoozers the 500.....because the 500 (as lame as it is and slower as IT is) is a more rewarding daily drive and has more function than the ancient W body Impala SS. The Impala simply was NOT sporting and it really didn't come off as any fun with its lame 4 speed auto and mush handling (for a supposed sports sedan). The SS package for the Impala is merely a v8 engine option for a typical cornfield state intersate highway cruiser car. The Impala also lacks room. The gauges and dash were cheap and the seats had no support.

I never tried the GXP GP, but I assume it would be a lot more to my liking and probably would have been the type of car I really wanted but it was too pricey.

Edited April 24, 2006 by regfootball

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

F_O_G SCREAMS: BIAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ONLY reason the GXP was approved and the Impala panned is because of sales trends.

GXP cannot hold it's own, DESPITE their praise, against the competition. Impala, on the other hand, is lighting up the sales charts (And ESPECIALLY the SS--- as per GM press releases) therefore C&D decided to do the noble thing and bitchslap it around some (What a surprise---their timing is becoming impeccable) JUST like they did with the HHR, G6 and Lucerne.

[jbartley]

F_O_G SCREAMS: BIAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ONLY reason the GXP was approved and the Impala panned is because of sales trends.

GXP cannot hold it's own, DESPITE their praise, against the competition. Impala, on the other hand, is lighting up the sales charts (And ESPECIALLY the SS--- as per GM press releases) therefore C&D decided to do the noble thing and bitchslap it around some (What a surprise---their timing is becoming impeccable) JUST like they did with the HHR, G6 and Lucerne.

Yeh what he said.

And C/D hates the idea that a FWD *GASP* sporty Chevy is selling like mad.

C/D and everyone else wanted it to bomb so they could say "told ya it needed to be RWD and a brand new platform like chrysler"

the impala is an excellent platform, the avg person wouldn't be able to tell you how old the "design" of the platform dates, That just proves how good it is.

Much to C/D dismay, Impala doesn't need to go RWD, there is a chance to alienate alot of drivers, just like killing the DTS is a BAD IDEA.

Again, they rip the DTS, but GM has no problem unloading them like hotcakes!

[ponchoman49]

The Impala, Lucerne and DTS are all very fine examples of FWD sedans. My buddy and I drove a 3LT Impala with it's 17" tires and were shocked at the handling of this car. We pulled that car around some very sharp curves and were amazed that it didn't even let out a peep from the tires and remained composed throughout. The yuppie crew over at Honda & Driver needed to find a way to justify once again that american cars all suck, the Accord and Camry are automatically superior and should be considered over the terrible GM FWD outdated cars but people are thankfully finding out what a nice job GM did with these refreshes. It's funny but very few car nuts I know even bother with C&D as it is the same ol $h! month after month with them.

[enzl]

Or, C & D has a point and the biased here at C&G are needlessly bashing C & D.

Do you really think a dated architecture has any place on one of GM's best selling vehicles in the heart of the market??? Is the Impala excellent for what it is? Absolutely. The problem lies in the assumption that its competitors have stood still or not advanced the game a few steps. As to the Accord or Camry, I don't even consider them the problem, its the 300/Charger/Magnum that make GM look silly and unimaginative...tell me that GM couldn't use another model that sells at a higher price point. The current Impala is still a rental car queen. GM sold 30% of its 1st quarter inventory to fleet users...that SS buyer is going to kill himself come trade-in time....the car will be worth as much as used tin-foil...Is that what GM really wants for its customers?

[evok]

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet...=74&docid=24824

From GM's sales PR.

"Consumers and dealers continue to respond very favorably to the new Chevrolet Impala. Retail sales in March were 16 percent greater than February and the sales mix has been very favorable, with strong demand for the SS version."

GM's statements mean nothing.

What does strong demand for the SS version mean?

Without a breakdown of the sales mix, the statement is without context.

Impala Sales March

24,071 2006

25,072 2005

Impala Sales Feb.

18,714 2006

19,135 2005

Retails sales up compared to Feb 2006 but total delieveries are down. How does this compare to the same period last year? Were the March 2005 retails sales up also when compared to Feb.?

Really, relying on the latests sales PR does not mean anything. There are more questions than answers.

[enzl]

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet...=74&docid=24824

From GM's sales PR.

"Consumers and dealers continue to respond very favorably to the new Chevrolet Impala. Retail sales in March were 16 percent greater than February and the sales mix has been very favorable, with strong demand for the SS version."

GM's statements mean nothing.

What does strong demand for the SS version mean?

Without a breakdown of the sales mix, the statement is without context.

Impala Sales March

24,071 2006

25,072 2005

Impala Sales Feb.

18,714 2006

19,135 2005

Retails sales up compared to Feb 2006 but total delieveries are down.  How does this compare to the same period last year?  Were the March 2005 retails sales up also when compared to Feb.?

Really, relying on the latests sales PR does not mean anything.  There are more questions than answers.

I think that all this means is that the current SS model is selling as a larger part of the model mix than the last model's lame V6 SS attempt.

That shouldn't be a tough task, should it? (Then again, we're still waiting for the 09 Camaro to surface...)

[evok]

I think that all this means is that the current SS model is selling as a larger part of the model mix than the last model's lame V6 SS attempt.

That shouldn't be a tough task, should it? (Then again, we're still waiting for the 09 Camaro to surface...)

I think I know what it means also but the problem I have with the PR is that I have to think, instead of laying it all out and being open. A poster above recently referred back to the PR as a supporting claim. My point is that there is nothing in the PR that actually supports anything without a solid model by model comparison instead of a quick snap shot. If it is that important for GM to point out, than have the breakdown in the sales numbers so it can be properly quantified off line if need be.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Or, C & D has a point and the biased here at C&G are needlessly bashing C & D.

Do you really think a dated architecture has any place on one of GM's best selling vehicles in the heart of the market??? Is the Impala excellent for what it is? Absolutely. The problem lies in the assumption that its competitors have stood still or not advanced the game a few steps. As to the Accord or Camry, I don't even consider them the problem, its the 300/Charger/Magnum that make GM look silly and unimaginative...tell me that GM couldn't use another model that sells at a higher price point. The current Impala is still a rental car queen. GM sold 30% of its 1st quarter inventory to fleet users...that SS buyer is going to kill himself come trade-in time....the car will be worth as much as used tin-foil...Is that what GM really wants for its customers?

I largely agree with that post on the issues with the Impala... It's a good car, but Chevrolet certainly needs MORE.

That said, I do not appreciate C&D's BLATANT disdain for GM and Ford (Notice how DCX is left out now because they are not an american company)

[turbo200]

that's because the PR is spin.

[The O.C.]

Too bad the GXP torque steers like hell

I test drove a GXP and was SHOCKED at the LACK of torque steer.

That's one thing GM is getting really good at managing.....

[The O.C.]

Except the GXP is better and on the same platform...

.....yet uglier.....

<groan>

Who was the product planner at Chevrolet that didn't have enough smarts to basically duplicate the suspension tuning on the SS to mimic the GXP?

And don't ANYONE on here tell me that the Pontiac is "supposed to have a sportier ride" or that Chevy had to "dumb down" the SS to "protect Pontiac..."

It's crap like that that gave the Lucerne the lower-powered Northstar.....in Bob Lutz' words..."we needed to protect Cadillac."

[Flybrian]

I test drove a GXP and was SHOCKED at the LACK of torque steer.

That's one thing GM is getting really good at managing.....

Acura and Nissan are just now weening out the torque steer from their high-horse cars.

[The O.C.]

Acura and Nissan are just now weening out the torque steer from their high-horse cars.

I don't want to cast a shadow on my previous positive statement about GM....but I wonder just how much actual steering feel has been lost in cars like the SS and GXP (compared to TLs and such) in order to COMPENSATE for the torque steer?

I've driven the GMs.....but have never driven a TL yet....but it's supposed to be a pretty-good-driving FWD sedan.....

[pow]

The TL doesn't have much torque steer in automatic form. It's the LSD in manual cars that yanks the front-end around under hard acceleration.

[enzl]

Bottom line is that FWD is not ideal, regardless of maker, if you're going to put 250hp+ through them.

*especially if you're calling the product a sports car.

[2005 EquinoxLS]

I didnt have too much of a problem with torque steer in the 2004 Impala SS I drove but I also couldnt help thinking that they probably shouldnt try to put more power through this platform. I may have to try a new SS to see if I was right. Yes FWD is better in snow and I wouldnt want to go backwards to a RWD for that reason, but I must also say the GTO I drove a little after the Impala SS handled its V8 a lot better.

[regfootball]

i drove an SS impala v8 and it wasn't all that fun. but it didn't really have any torque steer. ride and handling were no fun, and only 4 speeds really handicapped it. a mediocre/cheap/small interior with no support in the seats was as big of a drag. the 2.0 passat i drove right after that that day was much more engaging.

the Impala SS is a cornfield state cruiser. i agree with the one who said the SS ought to share suspension with the GXP. I bet the GXP is fun.

Edited April 30, 2006 by regfootball

[rkmdogs]

All of you "handling pundits" need to go read the California and Michigan police car test reports.

You will have to eat some of your words!

In a somewhat biased abbreviated report, go to: www.allpar.com/squads/police-cars/charger-police-testing.html

There you will get the FACTS on handling tests!

But it raised a question for me that maybe one of you might know a factual answer.

In the new 9C1 Impala package, the only engine offered is the 3.9 V-6.

Insider info says that the V-8 is not offered due to airflow/idling/overheat issues

with the V-8 in police-style testing. Can Anybody contribute some facts on this?

I would be curious to see a comparison test of the 3.9L V-6 Impala 9C1 car

with a regular V-8 Impala SS.

Can anybody comment here----- not opinion now, but facts!

[samuel]

i drove an SS impala v8 and it wasn't all that fun.  but it didn't really have any torque steer.  ride and handling were no fun, and only 4 speeds really handicapped it.  a mediocre/cheap/small interior with no support in the seats was as big of a drag.  the 2.0 passat i drove right after that that day was much more engaging.

the Impala SS is a cornfield state cruiser.  i agree with the one who said the SS ought to share suspension with the GXP.  I bet the GXP is fun.

You either didn't really drive the SS, or you have been brainwashed into believing what good handling is.

The Impala SS is a much more satisfying drive than the weak Passat, and a better quality car to boot.

Maybe actually form your own opinions next time, instead of letting car and drive decide for you?

[The O.C.]

You either didn't really drive the SS, or you have been brainwashed into believing what good handling is.

The Impala SS is a much more satisfying drive than the weak Passat, and a better quality car to boot.

Maybe actually form your own opinions next time, instead of letting car and drive decide for you?

Obviously you haven't even been IN a new Passat much less driven one.....

It's a far superior car to ANY GM W-body/GM-10 sedan. I've driven a Passat 2.0T and spent about 4 days in a Passat 3.6L.

Interior quality is far superior, as is roominess in the back seat....and the 3.6L stays right with a V8 SS Impala (C&D 0-60 in 5.9secs for Passat.)

I have YET to drive an Impala setup (rental-car-grade or SS) that has as nice of a handling feel AND good ride quality as even a base Passat.....

[daves87rs]

Obviously you haven't even been IN a new Passat much less driven one.....

It's a far superior car to ANY GM W-body/GM-10 sedan.  I've driven a Passat 2.0T and spent about 4 days in a Passat 3.6L.

Interior quality is far superior, as is roominess in the back seat....and the 3.6L stays right with a V8 SS Impala (C&D 0-60 in 5.9secs for Passat.)

I have YET to drive an Impala setup (rental-car-grade or SS) that has as nice of a handling feel AND good ride quality as even a base Passat.....

I wasn't very impressed with the Passat at all. I thought it came out kinda weak.

It would depend on how you like to drive your Impy...I though the SS was crude, but lots of fun to drive.

I think you'll like driving the TL..I did.

[samuel]

Obviously you haven't even been IN a new Passat much less driven one.....

It's a far superior car to ANY GM W-body/GM-10 sedan.  I've driven a Passat 2.0T and spent about 4 days in a Passat 3.6L.

Interior quality is far superior, as is roominess in the back seat....and the 3.6L stays right with a V8 SS Impala (C&D 0-60 in 5.9secs for Passat.)

I have YET to drive an Impala setup (rental-car-grade or SS) that has as nice of a handling feel AND good ride quality as even a base Passat.....

Wrong. Perceived interior quality may be higher, actual quality is certainly not. The V8 is easily a better drive than either Passat offering, the ride is superior, and the value is superior. Simply quoting a 0.60 time indicates to me that you have little understanding of the effects of a fat torque curve on how fast a car feels.

Yes, I have driven both. If you have (which I doubt) then possibly try and leave some of your bias at home? If it isn't bias, you may just not be a very good judge of things automotive. Try putting down the car mag and form your own opinion. When you do, you'll come to a different conclusion.

[CARBIZ]

I can't even believe I'm reading this thread: Passat versus the Impala? Please. Those two cars aren't even closely matched. They're not even in the same target market. SHEESH!

One of the advantages of being in the business is you talk to a lot of people from different walks of life and get their opinions of what they've seen and driven. I don't think in my going on 9 years in this business I've ever had someone comparing an Impala (in any trim level) against the Passat.

Their ride, handling and heft are VASTLY different from each other. Like comparing a horse and camel - yeah, they do have 4 legs.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Obviously you haven't even been IN a new Passat much less driven one.....

It's a far superior car to ANY GM W-body/GM-10 sedan.  I've driven a Passat 2.0T and spent about 4 days in a Passat 3.6L.

Interior quality is far superior, as is roominess in the back seat....and the 3.6L stays right with a V8 SS Impala (C&D 0-60 in 5.9secs for Passat.)

I have YET to drive an Impala setup (rental-car-grade or SS) that has as nice of a handling feel AND good ride quality as even a base Passat.....

VW and interior quality...

Oxymoron at best!

[regfootball]

You either didn't really drive the SS, or you have been brainwashed into believing what good handling is.

The Impala SS is a much more satisfying drive than the weak Passat, and a better quality car to boot.

Maybe actually form your own opinions next time, instead of letting car and drive decide for you?

don't fk with me. i drove the car. it handles like a floppy boat. its faster than the passat, but the passats tranny was much uch more responsive and in handling and comfort the BASE passat has it over the sloppy mushy impala SS.

are you telling ME what i don't like a car? screw you. the car's handling sucks. don't go frikkin telling me what I think about a car. I TELL YOU what I THINK about a car.

the Impala SS had no roll control, the ride was good and soft if you like that. the steering was dead and slow. the tranny was slow to kick down. hardly a sporting car at all. FLUFFWAGON.

i want to try the GXP because its likely tuned the way i would prefer it if i had that much dough to spend.

the passat had a good ride and steering feel and felt composed. Not a hot rod, but at least it was refined and not sloppy or junky.

Edited May 2, 2006 by regfootball

[The O.C.]

Wrong. Perceived interior quality may be higher, actual quality is certainly not. The V8 is easily a better drive than either Passat offering, the ride is superior, and the value is superior. Simply quoting a 0.60 time indicates to me that you have little understanding of the effects of a fat torque curve on how fast a car feels.

Yes, I have driven both. If you have (which I doubt) then possibly try and leave some of your bias at home? If it isn't bias, you may just not be a very good judge of things automotive. Try putting down the car mag and form your own opinion. When you do, you'll come to a different conclusion.

I'll laugh again.....

And in an instance of being a bit bold, you don't know anything about me....OR my experience in the car industry....OR the number of cars I get to get into and drive all the time.....

It seems that it's not ME that needs to leave the "bias" at home......

When GM actually DESERVES credit, I am one of the first ones to give them that credit....

[The O.C.]

don't fk with me.  i drove the car.  it handles like a floppy boat.  its faster than the passat, but the passats tranny was much uch more responsive and in handling and comfort the BASE passat has it over the sloppy mushy impala SS. 

are you telling ME what i don't like a car?  screw you.  the car's handling sucks.  don't go frikkin telling me what I think about a car.  I TELL YOU what I THINK about a car.

the Impala SS had no roll control, the ride was good and soft if you like that.  the steering was dead and slow.  the tranny was slow to kick down.  hardly a sporting car at all.  FLUFFWAGON.

i want to try the GXP because its likely tuned the way i would prefer it if i had that much dough to spend.

the passat had a good ride and steering feel and felt composed.  Not a hot rod, but at least it was refined and not sloppy or junky.

Thanks, Reg.....I agree with you completely.

You know.....something as simple as GXP suspension-tuning and tire-technology would go a LONG way to improving the SS.....AND let's give the SS some decent seats, shall we? (....think DCX SRT-8 seats, or even GTO seats....)

BUT in the end, there's only SO much you can do with such an ancient architecture....

[evok]

I'll laugh again..... 

And in an instance of being a bit bold, you don't know anything about me....OR my experience in the car industry....OR the number of cars I get to get into and drive all the time.....

It seems that it's not ME that needs to leave the "bias" at home......

When GM actually DESERVES credit, I am one of the first ones to give them that credit....

LOL - 37 posts on the board and he wants to take you on when it comes to the product. Ha ha ha - some people need to sit back and read to find out who is who before directly posting like that.

[buyacargetacheck]

Posters here crack me up. How many of you who complain about the handling of the SS or the Impala in general have families? This car in all its trims is all about hauling your family around with power, comfort and economy. The Passat? Get real. And get your checkbook out for the many after-warranty repairs and special German parts. Don't forget that even the base engines in many European cars require premium fuel. I worshiped C&D's opinion when I was 12. Now well into my 30s I understand that they understand very little about real world car ownership. Who gives a &#036;h&#33; about "feel" and how many Gs you can do around a skidpad??? Not most buyers. Bedard, Csere and especially Yates are a bunch of coddled shills.

Check out John McElroy's piece about Tyranny of the Enthusiasts for an eloquent elaboration:

http://wardsauto.com/commentary/tyranny_of_enthusiasts/

[evok]

Posters here crack me up.  How many of you who complain about the handling of  the SS or the Impala in general have families?  This car in all its trims is all about hauling your family around with power, comfort and economy.  The Passat?  Get real.  And get your checkbook out for the many after-warranty repairs and special German parts.  Don't forget that even the base engines in many European cars require premium fuel.  I worshiped C&D's opinion when I was 12.  Now well into my 30s I understand that they understand very little about real world car ownership.  Who gives a &#036;h&#33; about "feel" and how many Gs you can do around a skidpad???  Not most buyers.  Bedard, Csere and especially Yates are a bunch of coddled shills.

Check out John McElroy's piece about Tyranny of the Enthusiasts for an eloquent elaboration:

http://wardsauto.com/commentary/tyranny_of_enthusiasts/

I understand your point but McElroy's article is pointless in the real world. Personally I really wish more companies had more product enthusiasts running the show. But I can assure you if companies like GM had the product enthusisast that he claims making the decisions, GM would have a lot more hits on their hands and less duds like, well you know.

Product enthusisasts are the life line of this industry.

Hell besides a couple niche models and just recently, the US Big 3 did not produce much for that 8% anyway.

In either case I do not read the rags at all for the most part but when you do drive as many product as C&D and do back to back comparisons, the obvious flaws in the US Big 3 product become apparent.

Product enthusiasts bring solidly build, well styled vehicles with good attention to detail that are confident to drive, that translates into the average buyer thinking they are driving a good product for the money.

Edited May 2, 2006 by evok

[buyacargetacheck]

I understand your point but McElroy's article is pointless in the real world.  Personally I really wish more companies had more product enthusiasts running the show.  But I can assure you if companies like GM had the product enthusisast that he claims making the decisions, GM would have a lot more hits on their hands and less duds like, well you know.

Product enthusisasts are the life line of this industry.

A real enthusiast to me is the dedicated mechanical engineer who understands the real world driving situations of 99% of buyers and who engineers suspensions accordingly. Not all enthusiasts like cars such as the crude and obnoxious SRT-4. In other words, an enthusiast can also appreciate the fuel-economy wonders of small-car engineering or the beauty of low NVH and traditional ride of a Buick that doesn't leave you feeling worn out after a few hours of driving (while protecting your wallet at the same time).

Product enthusiasts like those found at the car buff mags are the bane of the industry not the life line. The true enthusiasts are quietly doing their jobs at GM, Ford, Toyota, etc. churning out mainstream cars.

[regfootball]

Thanks, Reg.....I agree with you completely.

You know.....something as simple as GXP suspension-tuning and tire-technology would go a LONG way to improving the SS.....AND let's give the SS some decent seats, shall we?  (....think DCX SRT-8 seats, or even GTO seats....)

BUT in the end, there's only SO much you can do with such an ancient architecture....

THAT'S ALL IT WOULD TAKE!!!!!!!!!

WHY IS IT SO FLIPPIN HARD FOR GM TO BUILD A CAR LIKE THAT?

damn, i need to go drive a GXP.

[evok]

A real enthusiast to me is the dedicated mechanical engineer who understands the real world driving situations of 99% of buyers and who engineers suspensions accordingly.  Not all enthusiasts like cars such as the crude and obnoxious SRT-4.  In other words, an enthusiast can also appreciate the fuel-economy wonders of small-car engineering or the beauty of low NVH and traditional ride of a Buick that doesn't leave you feeling worn out after a few hours of driving (while protecting your wallet at the same time).

Product enthusiasts like those found at the car buff mags are the bane of the industry not the life line.  The true enthusiasts are quietly doing their jobs at GM, Ford, Toyota, etc. churning out mainstream cars.

McElroy is still off base - He writes an editorial that summarily opions that all these companies are designing cars for the latest C&D drag strip comparision. That is just not true and really is a naive view of the industry if he actually believes what he wrote.

[samuel]

don't fk with me.  i drove the car.  it handles like a floppy boat.  its faster than the passat, but the passats tranny was much uch more responsive and in handling and comfort the BASE passat has it over the sloppy mushy impala SS. 

are you telling ME what i don't like a car?  screw you.  the car's handling sucks.  don't go frikkin telling me what I think about a car.  I TELL YOU what I THINK about a car.

the Impala SS had no roll control, the ride was good and soft if you like that.  the steering was dead and slow.  the tranny was slow to kick down.  hardly a sporting car at all.  FLUFFWAGON.

i want to try the GXP because its likely tuned the way i would prefer it if i had that much dough to spend.

the passat had a good ride and steering feel and felt composed.  Not a hot rod, but at least it was refined and not sloppy or junky.

Nah, the SS is far from a floppy boat. It actually handles very well, and as I said, it is a far better value than the Passat (and judging from recent VW quality, better built). As I said, if you can drive the car without a pre-determined outcome in your mind, you will realize that your initial impressions were misguided to say the least. No offense intended, just learn to approach these things with an open mind and it will be pretty clear that your impressions were very biased.

[regfootball]

YOU STILL DON'T GET THAT I DROVE THE SS!!!!!! GET A LIFE. I THOUGHT IT WAS LAME IN THE HANDLING AND DRIVING DEPT!!!!

if you had driven the base passat, which by the way isn't that high priced, you would know its a quiet, comfortable solid car which also happens to handle and ride decently. it makes it a breeze to drive quicker yet still feel comfortable.

A mazda 6 and Galant GTS are also both examples of very composed (dynamically)family type cars. I would assume the specB Legacy and Accord to be the same way. And none of those cars offer any practical sacrifices for daily use.

Hate to be but my 1989 (YES NEARLY 20 years) model SHO was a great example of what a sedan chassis for enthusiasts should be dynamically. Taut ride, not bone jarring. Great quick steering but a confidently sure chassis. All weather prowess with great tires. Smooth power low and high. Dead quiet at cruising speeds. Soulfully nice to listen to when on the gas.

Another car I like right now is a maxima. A nice blend of basic sport and comfort. The G6 GTP and GP GXP and Malibu SS are all cars I bet i could like or maybe they are just darn close. None of those cars suffer as family haulers.

Unfortunately the Impala falls so short dynamically and functionally as a sporty car. Why bother with 'SS' if all that is just a tease of an engine?

Posters here crack me up.  How many of you who complain about the handling of  the SS or the Impala in general have families?  This car in all its trims is all about hauling your family around with power, comfort and economy.  The Passat?  Get real.  And get your checkbook out for the many after-warranty repairs and special German parts.  Don't forget that even the base engines in many European cars require premium fuel.  I worshiped C&D's opinion when I was 12.  Now well into my 30s I understand that they understand very little about real world car ownership.  Who gives a &#036;h&#33; about "feel" and how many Gs you can do around a skidpad???  Not most buyers.  Bedard, Csere and especially Yates are a bunch of coddled shills.

Check out John McElroy's piece about Tyranny of the Enthusiasts for an eloquent elaboration:

http://wardsauto.com/commentary/tyranny_of_enthusiasts/

Edited May 2, 2006 by regfootball

[samuel]

I'll laugh again..... 

And in an instance of being a bit bold, you don't know anything about me....OR my experience in the car industry....OR the number of cars I get to get into and drive all the time.....

It seems that it's not ME that needs to leave the "bias" at home......

When GM actually DESERVES credit, I am one of the first ones to give them that credit....

Relax. I am just pointing out that your judgements about cars are not that accurate (based on your judgements in this thread). No reason to get mad,, maybe you're just not a car person.

[regfootball]

McElroy is still off base - He writes an editorial that summarily opions that all these companies are designing cars for the latest C&D drag strip comparision.  That is just not true and really is a naive view of the industry if he actually believes what he wrote.

McElroy is an idiot by that article and thus you can tell why he's 56. dinosaur. the quest is a great driving minivan. perfect handling and power for what i want.