IMPALA DIESEL

[regfootball]

bring it! Not the cruze! Diesel Impala would sell like hotcakes!

OK, still have the Cruze too.

Diesel Impala, how about a nice diesel 4 to outgun the passat?

[ocnblu]

I'm all for it.

[ZL-1]

Which engine?

[G. David Felt]

Should use the 2.9L Duramax Diesel Baby!

[Drew Dowdell]

While a nice idea, I doubt an Impala diesel would out gun a Passat. The Impala has a lot more heft to move around, that will hurt it in fuel economy and/or performance. Reuss already said no.

[87Chevette]

YES YES YES

[ZL-1]

Should use the 2.9L Duramax Diesel Baby!

Is the 4-cyl used in the Thai Colorado or is it the VM engine that never was (i.e. the one GM was co-developing for the CTS and that Chrysler uses in the Lancia Thema and the Euro Grand Cherokee)?

[G. David Felt]

Should use the 2.9L Duramax Diesel Baby!

Is the 4-cyl used in the Thai Colorado or is it the VM engine that never was (i.e. the one GM was co-developing for the CTS and that Chrysler uses in the Lancia Thema and the Euro Grand Cherokee)?

Yes this is the one in the Thai Colorado, it is the more powerful of the two available. 250HP/406LBS getting in the 30's for mileage if I am reading the overseas spec right.

[G. David Felt]

Great Engine Guide here:

http://www.gminsidenews.com/index.php?page=Engine_Guide

Also here is interesting info on the Diesel Engines:

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/chevy/0810dp_2010_duramax_4500_diesel/photo_03.html

[ZL-1]

Should use the 2.9L Duramax Diesel Baby!

Is the 4-cyl used in the Thai Colorado or is it the VM engine that never was (i.e. the one GM was co-developing for the CTS and that Chrysler uses in the Lancia Thema and the Euro Grand Cherokee)?

Yes this is the one in the Thai Colorado, it is the more powerful of the two available. 250HP/406LBS getting in the 30's for mileage if I am reading the overseas spec right.

Cool! It's torquey for sure

[hyperv6]

I ponder how well the [American] Public will accept them.

I will wait to see the take rate of the Cruze before I go asking for more. I think it would be a good idea but the question is how many people will be willing to pay more for them.

[G. David Felt]

I ponder how well the [American] Public will accept them.

I will wait to see the take rate of the Cruze before I go asking for more. I think it would be a good idea but the question is how many people will be willing to pay more for them.

I would not worry about the public perception and acceptance. At this point it is a Marketing War and GM/Chevy needs to hit all the right Marketing Messages for the public and make sure to have plenty of press cars ready to have them test droven and written up.

High Mileage

So Quite you will not notice it next to you.

Interior Build Quality #1

Personalization options for the cosumer

Have a catchy Tune or Torque it up or something that not only leaves the press WOWed, but also gets the public to come in and see just how cool these cars are.

[Drew Dowdell]

I ponder how well the [American] Public will accept them.

I will wait to see the take rate of the Cruze before I go asking for more. I think it would be a good idea but the question is how many people will be willing to pay more for them.

something around 1 in 4 Passats sold is a diesel. Jetta is approaching a similar take rate. The limitation primarily being VW's production capacity for the diesel engines.

[G. David Felt]

I ponder how well the [American] Public will accept them.

I will wait to see the take rate of the Cruze before I go asking for more. I think it would be a good idea but the question is how many people will be willing to pay more for them.

something around 1 in 4 Passats sold is a diesel. Jetta is approaching a similar take rate. The limitation primarily being VW's production capacity for the diesel engines.

And this take rate is with an engine that is noisy. I have yet to be next to a VW Diesel that did not knock and let you know it was a diesel.

I really hope GM makes the Cruze Diesel whisper quiet.

[regfootball]

the Impala would be aside from the Cruze the best GM car candidate for a diesel.

NEW ENGINE!!!!! i would make essentially a 2.0 four or larger. turbo. I'm super thanks for asking MPG!

I am not worried about the added heft so much. If the mpg got within 2-3 of the Passat, the Impala's sturdiness and nicer kit would be worth it. I really do think GM could move lots of diesel Impalas if they dunnit correctly. Maybe a cummins diesel four?!?!?!?!?!

[hyperv6]

I ponder how well the [American] Public will accept them.

I will wait to see the take rate of the Cruze before I go asking for more. I think it would be a good idea but the question is how many people will be willing to pay more for them.

something around 1 in 4 Passats sold is a diesel. Jetta is approaching a similar take rate. The limitation primarily being VW's production capacity for the diesel engines.

But you leave out the some major factors.

#1 it is a German car and buyers of German cars are very open to Diesel. Keep in mind these too are the same kind of folks who still buy wagons in small numbers too not something the average American sedan buyer is open too.

#2 These are VW's and most VW buyers are open to Diesel just as they are to German cars.

The reality is the only Diesels the Americans can really sell are trucks and most Asian companies have been in and out and in and out of the Diesel market due to luke warm sales in this country.

Don't get me wrong I want a Diesel offered here and the Cruze is the pertect platform for it and then the Malibu but the Impala is down the line in my book to recieve this engine in this country.

You can put the out there but it is very difficult to get anyone interested in an American sedan to buy a diesel. GM will need to get the Cruze out and market the hell out of it to teach the public the relaities of the modern Diesel and then pray the EPA does not get FN crazy and add even more regulations to make it even more difficult to build them and sell them here.

There is what you and I want and then there is what the average buyer wants and right now there is a gap that needs to be worked on before we chuck a bunch of diesels in the Impala that end up with large rebates on them to get the dealers to off them.

By all means GM should have a stake here but lets work our way up with some proof of product in the Cruze and then Malibu before you jump into the deep end.

Edited January 9, 2013 by hyperv6

[hyperv6]

the Impala would be aside from the Cruze the best GM car candidate for a diesel.

NEW ENGINE!!!!! i would make essentially a 2.0 four or larger. turbo. I'm super thanks for asking MPG!

I am not worried about the added heft so much. If the mpg got within 2-3 of the Passat, the Impala's sturdiness and nicer kit would be worth it. I really do think GM could move lots of diesel Impalas if they dunnit correctly. Maybe a cummins diesel four?!?!?!?!?!

The reality is if anyone is worried about MPG they are not looking to the Impala anyways they are looking to the Cruze of Malibu.

[Drew Dowdell]

I ponder how well the [American] Public will accept them.

I will wait to see the take rate of the Cruze before I go asking for more. I think it would be a good idea but the question is how many people will be willing to pay more for them.

something around 1 in 4 Passats sold is a diesel. Jetta is approaching a similar take rate. The limitation primarily being VW's production capacity for the diesel engines.

But you leave out the some major factors.

#1 it is a German car and buyers of German cars are very open to Diesel. Keep in mind these too are the same kind of folks who still buy wagons in small numbers too not something the average American sedan buyer is open too.

#2 These are VW's and most VW buyers are open to Diesel just as they are to German cars.

The reality is the only Diesels the Americans can really sell are trucks and most Asian companies have been in and out and in and out of the Diesel market due to luke warm sales in this country.

Don't get me wrong I want a Diesel offered here and the Cruze is the pertect platform for it and then the Malibu but the Impala is down the line in my book to recieve this engine in this country.

You can put the out there but it is very difficult to get anyone interested in an American sedan to buy a diesel. GM will need to get the Cruze out and market the hell out of it to teach the public the relaities of the modern Diesel and then pray the EPA does not get FN crazy and add even more regulations to make it even more difficult to build them and sell them here.

There is what you and I want and then there is what the average buyer wants and right now there is a gap that needs to be worked on before we chuck a bunch of diesels in the Impala that end up with large rebates on them to get the dealers to off them.

By all means GM should have a stake here but lets work our way up with some proof of product in the Cruze and then Malibu before you jump into the deep end.

Passat has gone from 22k a year in sales to 117k a year and that means 29,250 TDI Passats in 2012. They can't all be previous customers.

Don't forget the Chrysler is going to be putting out diesels too. There is a 3.0 diesel V6 Grand Cherokee coming and they've promised that engine in other vehicles too. Think Charger, 300, and Durango...

[hyperv6]

Yes but how many of the Passat owners came from an Audi, Volvo, BMW or Benz. Many people have been down sizing in this economy and VW has really reaped a lot from the other Euro MFG. They even picked up a lot of sales from Saab too. Of that 29K I would be 3/4 were previous German or Euro car owners.

The Cherokee and Durango are in the segment that will bleed over from the trucks. It would be like putting a Pick up diesel in a Tahoe.

The Charger now would be a challange no pun intended. But for Chrysler to continue any kind of volume with that car they will need to seek MPG to meet the coming regs. The Diesel will help them if they can get people to buy it.

This is a segment that needs to be grown and if you just build them and put it out there they will fail. You have to show and teach the American public how good these new engines are and show they just why they will like them. Also you will need to show how easy it is to get fuel as many people could not even tell you where they can fill up. They are common but just not everywhere and many people see that a local station does not have it and assume it is now where close. What the public dosen't know hurts the diesel much. People in general have little clue and those who know love them so it is time to teach and re educate them.

[regfootball]

the Impala would be aside from the Cruze the best GM car candidate for a diesel.

NEW ENGINE!!!!! i would make essentially a 2.0 four or larger. turbo. I'm super thanks for asking MPG!

I am not worried about the added heft so much. If the mpg got within 2-3 of the Passat, the Impala's sturdiness and nicer kit would be worth it. I really do think GM could move lots of diesel Impalas if they dunnit correctly. Maybe a cummins diesel four?!?!?!?!?!

The reality is if anyone is worried about MPG they are not looking to the Impala anyways they are looking to the Cruze of Malibu.

I do not believe there would be as much interest in a diesel Malibu if the cruze gets it, compared to the Impala. Plus, the Impala can bury the cost increase more in it's already higher price.

People are not attracted to the Malibu right now the way it is. The Impala will be a magnet. I think a diesel Impala would generate tons of market buzz. Impala is closer in interior size to the Passat than the Malibu.

Malibu should have a real hybrid powertrain like Fusion and Camry before it would get a diesel. That segment requires a hybrid, a real hybrid practically.

If we guess that Impala can sell at least 200,000 units for the 14 version a year, i see no reason that they couldn't move at least 10,000 of them as diesel.

Edited January 10, 2013 by regfootball

[Drew Dowdell]

Yes but how many of the Passat owners came from an Audi, Volvo, BMW or Benz. Many people have been down sizing in this economy and VW has really reaped a lot from the other Euro MFG. They even picked up a lot of sales from Saab too. Of that 29K I would be 3/4 were previous German or Euro car owners.

The Cherokee and Durango are in the segment that will bleed over from the trucks. It would be like putting a Pick up diesel in a Tahoe.

The Charger now would be a challange no pun intended. But for Chrysler to continue any kind of volume with that car they will need to seek MPG to meet the coming regs. The Diesel will help them if they can get people to buy it.

This is a segment that needs to be grown and if you just build them and put it out there they will fail. You have to show and teach the American public how good these new engines are and show they just why they will like them. Also you will need to show how easy it is to get fuel as many people could not even tell you where they can fill up. They are common but just not everywhere and many people see that a local station does not have it and assume it is now where close. What the public dosen't know hurts the diesel much. People in general have little clue and those who know love them so it is time to teach and re educate them.

I won't bet. I'll just ask VW for the conquest rates.

[hyperv6]

It would be interesting to see where the VW Diesels came from.

[hyperv6]

Just for grins and giggles I spoke with my resident VW owner and fan at work and asked him for his imput on the Passat and Diesels in general.

He has owned 3 Passats over the last few years and before that a series of GTI Golfs and a series of Sirocco's. Here is what he had to offer with no prompting from me.

I asked what he thought of the Passat Diesel. He stated he loved the car and it drove better than the gas version he owns. He stated he would love to have one but the added cost is all that stopped him. He is considering the next VW he buys may be a Diesel.

I told him around 29K were sold and asked him where most of the buyers came from. He said of all those he knew that owned them and drive them were all prev VW owners and many Audi owners. Being involved with VW groups I asked what he knew of American converts to the VW Diesel. He knew of none. He said there were many American owners converted to the Gas models but not many with the Diesel.

I asked what he thought of a Cruze Diesel as we are expecting and he said it would be a good place to start as it should run well and get well over 50 MPG. He noted the real issue is cost. He said if they can not keep the price resonable or cheaper than some models it could be a hard sell. He pointed out the Passat Diesel is treated as a high end model because of the cost and they load the car up with options to help make it feel as a good value.

I asked what he would think of the new Impala Diesel. He said it was a nice looking car but he is not sure how it would play if it cost too much with the diesel. I advised the loaded LTZ would be just over $42K and he felt it would be a hard sell at that price with the other more popular Euro offerings.

He felt that American companies if they want to sell diesels that the price and education are the key points and he said they should not expect great sales as it will take time for people to accept them. In other words don't give up if they don't have a big take rate after 5 years.

I asked about the Malibu having a Diesel and he felt the Regal would be better with this engine as with better options and a more Euro like car [he noted it was a Opel] it would have more appeal to the Euro buyers. He said even his VW friends like the GS.

Anyways that is what he stated to me.

[G. David Felt]

Very Interesting input, I wish there was a way to see what the actual conquest rate for diesel auto's across the board was. This would be a great amount of insight.

[regfootball]

impalas have no chance of selling for 42k. Sticker on a new LTZ will be 40 possibly but no way will Impalas sell to chevy folk for 40k.

The incentive and discount machine will kick in and the loaded impalas should settle in at max 35 geezels.

There is no reason an Impala LT1 with a 4 cylinder diesel couldn't stay under the 30 mark OTD with a typical dealer discount. That would be a lot better proposition than a 28k Malibu diesel.

The reason your buddy thinks the Passat diesel runs better than the gas version is because the Passat 2.5 5 cylinder engine is JUNK JUNK JUNK. Runs like $h!.

[Guest ChevetteLover]

I don't know of any Passat TDI buyer who migrated down from Mercedez Benz, or Audi, or BMW. Those buyers have migrated up, either from other VW diesel cars, or Japanese imports, and many from GM itself.

The genius who said that the Impala is too hefty, compared to a Passat, hasn't seen the German behemoth; the Passat is only 300 lbs. lighter:

http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/passat/2014/features-specs.html?style=200485290

http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/impala/2014/features-specs.html

You can probably account for the difference in weight to the heavier Impala V-6, as well as to larger 19-inch wheels, and to geriatric spec-ed comfy seats.

A diesel Impala need not have a 250 hp engine to compete with this German sedan, for the Passat TDI only has 148 hp: the diesel engine of the Cruze is sufficient.

[daves87rs]

Thinking the Impy is simply too big.....better put in a small truck......more useful too..