Natural gas in PA

[Camino LS6]

http://www.pennlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2012/11/natural_gas_vehicles_are_coming_to_pennsylvania.html

[G. David Felt]

Very cool, and as I have said before, this is our counteries future for getting off arab oil.

[ocnblu]

I posted that to my Facebook page. Thanks Camino.

[Camino LS6]

My pleasure.

I really think that this is the answer to so many problems.

[G. David Felt]

My pleasure.

I really think that this is the answer to so many problems.

We just need to make sure the uneducated tree huggers who have misdirected agendas do not get the gov to ignore this very solid way of moving forward and reducing this country's dependance on oil.

[Camino LS6]

I'm trying to do that, but the propaganda is intense.

[G. David Felt]

I'm trying to do that, but the propaganda is intense.

Yea I saw a trailer for GasLand and boy is this movie now that I have seen it just full of false info and outright lies. I am surprised Robert Redford would lend his name to a movie that is so full of lies, but then I guess people hate to learn the truth, they would rather just spread false info in a vain attempt to be eco warriors.

Truthland was made to counter all the lies in Gasland and according to the news article I guess the gasland idiots are going to make a follow up film.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/neighborhoods-south/natural-gas-industry-speaks-up-with-film-645348/

[Intrepidation]

Very cool, and as I have said before, this is our counteries future for getting off arab oil.

You do realize the US imports most of its oil from Canada and Latin America right?

I wish we had Natural Gas in this part of the state, hate home heating oil. So damn expensive, I'd wager electric heating is cheaper at this point.

[G. David Felt]

Very cool, and as I have said before, this is our counteries future for getting off arab oil.

You do realize the US imports most of its oil from Canada and Latin America right?

I wish we had Natural Gas in this part of the state, hate home heating oil. So damn expensive, I'd wager electric heating is cheaper at this point.

Yes I do realize that most of the oil comes in from Canada and Latin America but oil is still so much more expensive than natural gas.

Where do you live as I would bet you could get Natural Gas piped to your house and while adding the natural gas line from the street to the house would be a small investment, how clean it is would surprise you as oil burning furnaces tend to create a bunch of soot that most people do not realize till they change over and clean up and then realize they are not dealing with the oil mess.

[Intrepidation]

You don't have to convince me of the benefits of NG heating, where I used to live we had one and it was great. No waiting for fuel delivery, when the power went out we still had heat and hot water. That said, neither the oil fired furnace or water heater create soot in our house. On the flip side oil fired homes tend not to explode.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm trying to do that, but the propaganda is intense.

Yea I saw a trailer for GasLand and boy is this movie now that I have seen it just full of false info and outright lies. I am surprised Robert Redford would lend his name to a movie that is so full of lies, but then I guess people hate to learn the truth, they would rather just spread false info in a vain attempt to be eco warriors.

Truthland was made to counter all the lies in Gasland and according to the news article I guess the gasland idiots are going to make a follow up film.

http://www.post-gaze...th-film-645348/

The issue isn't is fracking safe... the issue is are fracking companies doing the fracking safely? are they disposing of their waste safely? is the extraction being done safely? there is a sufficient amount of evidence to at least raise these questions.... and they are not unfair questions to ask.

[G. David Felt]

I'm trying to do that, but the propaganda is intense.

Yea I saw a trailer for GasLand and boy is this movie now that I have seen it just full of false info and outright lies. I am surprised Robert Redford would lend his name to a movie that is so full of lies, but then I guess people hate to learn the truth, they would rather just spread false info in a vain attempt to be eco warriors.

Truthland was made to counter all the lies in Gasland and according to the news article I guess the gasland idiots are going to make a follow up film.

http://www.post-gaze...th-film-645348/

The issue isn't is fracking safe... the issue is are fracking companies doing the fracking safely? are they disposing of their waste safely? is the extraction being done safely? there is a sufficient amount of evidence to at least raise these questions.... and they are not unfair questions to ask.

Those are valid questions, sadly GasLand the movie twists this all into lies with stating that fracking is destroying the ground water, killing off grazing lands for cattle and making your kitchen sinks running bombs.

We should always and I do believe based on my own experience that most companies do follow the EPA guidelines for safe responsible fracking and recovery of Natural gas.

So many people seem to think you can create energy out of nothing and fight the needs humanity has for fossil fuels.

[Intrepidation]

Watching the trailers for both, one has a whiff of sensationalism while they other looks like someone got a mighty big paycheck to make it.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm trying to do that, but the propaganda is intense.

Yea I saw a trailer for GasLand and boy is this movie now that I have seen it just full of false info and outright lies. I am surprised Robert Redford would lend his name to a movie that is so full of lies, but then I guess people hate to learn the truth, they would rather just spread false info in a vain attempt to be eco warriors.

Truthland was made to counter all the lies in Gasland and according to the news article I guess the gasland idiots are going to make a follow up film.

http://www.post-gaze...th-film-645348/

The issue isn't is fracking safe... the issue is are fracking companies doing the fracking safely? are they disposing of their waste safely? is the extraction being done safely? there is a sufficient amount of evidence to at least raise these questions.... and they are not unfair questions to ask.

Those are valid questions, sadly GasLand the movie twists this all into lies with stating that fracking is destroying the ground water, killing off grazing lands for cattle and making your kitchen sinks running bombs.

We should always and I do believe based on my own experience that most companies do follow the EPA guidelines for safe responsible fracking and recovery of Natural gas.

So many people seem to think you can create energy out of nothing and fight the needs humanity has for fossil fuels.

Some of those things have happened though... not because of fracking, but because of unsafe fracking practices.

Think of it this way: The general public is typically used to corporations getting away with literal murder and then having the government take the companies' side. Some fracking companies have been less than careful in their drilling practices. I don't blame people for being scared.

[Camino LS6]

I do.

Being scared is useless and leads to knee-jerk judgments when what is needed is sober and logical oversight.

[Drew Dowdell]

I do.

Being scared is useless and leads to knee-jerk judgments when what is needed is sober and logical oversight.

The companies try to refuse and thwart oversight at every turn.

[Camino LS6]

I do.

Being scared is useless and leads to knee-jerk judgments when what is needed is sober and logical oversight.

The companies try to refuse and thwart oversight at every turn.

And that should be the target that the protesters go after, not the technology itself. And resorting to outright falsehoods in an attempt to ban fracking altogether is just shameful.

[Intrepidation]

http://www.marcellus...e-Truthland.htm

Whoops. Look which documentary is lying now.

[Camino LS6]

What "whoops" ?

[Intrepidation]

Research has revealed that there is trouble in truth land. One of the Depue wells (8H) is severely flawed with a bubbling annulus. An annulus is the cemented layer between layers of steel, you know, the one that 'never leaks' and can survive cannon-type explosions as seen toward the end of the "Truthland" movie. Two more of the Depue wells (2H and 6H) have Pennsylvania DEP violations, which are shown below. Needless to say, it's not going nearly as well as all the "experts" interviewed in the Truthland movie led Shelly to believe it would!

Depue 8H is located at 41.924375,-75.8729 in Franklin Township, Susquehanna County, Pennsylvania. The well (DEP permit number 115-20461) was SPUD on November 18, 2010 by Williams Production Appalachia. Williams subsequently spun off Williams Production Appalachia to become WPX Energy, which the Pennsylvania DEP currently lists as the operator of Depue 8H. The DEP cited WPX on July 28, 2010 for failing to file production reports.

Depue 8H has been the subject of multiple DEP violation notices. On February 15, 2011, violation ID 604972 (Inspection ID 1950415) is described in the DEP eFACTS database as "Failure to report defective, insufficient, or improperly cemented casing w/in 24 hrs or submit plan to correct w/in 30 days".

The actual inspection report notes "Failure to properly cement intermediate casing." (Inspection reports are not currently on-line but are available to the public through the DEP 'File Review' and 'Right To Know' processes.)

The rest here: http://www.marcellus...e_in_truth_land

More than a year later on March 20, 2012, it appears the problem was not fixed. In Inspection Report 2053535, DEP inspector Stephen Watson reports: "Well is online. Observed bubbling on 9" x 13" annulus. Can see bubbling at surface. Bubbling is consistent and visible on all sides of casing."

Remeber how she said, in direct quote, "They said they actually are working hard and getting better every day."? That whoops.

Oh and "The film and its “full-scale website and social media campaign” was planned from start to finish by the natural gas industry. Even its web domain, truthlandmovie.com, was registered by industry giant Chesapeake Energy. The origin of Truthland as an industry PR campaign is confirmed by EID spokesman Chris Tucker’s presentation to a meeting of West Virginia oil and natural gas industry representatives in May."

So it looks like I was correct when I smelt a big paycheck watching that trailer.

[Camino LS6]

The problems at those two wells are precisely what should be under scrutiny - I have no issue with folks holding the company's feet to the fire on that point.

As for the film, I don't think they ever tried to hide the financing. I don't think that the industry had any choice but to respond the the fraud of "Gasland".

Fox's film was as fake as that smear job done on GM with the gas tanks.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Camino LS6

[Drew Dowdell]

But.

They.

Aren't.

Gov. Corbet wants to REDUCE oversight and restrictions. We can't even get the companies to play by the rules NOW.

[Camino LS6]

I wish both sides of this would quit playing politics, it is far too important that we do this (and do it well) to be wasting time with BS propaganda.

[Drew Dowdell]

I wish the companies would stop putting raw profit over people's lives and livelyhoods. They'd find a lot less resistance that way.

[Camino LS6]

The knee-jerk opposition is just as guilty if not more.

It's high time to start dealing with facts instead of hyperbole.

[Camino LS6]

What we have now is companies resisting all regulation and disclosure and the opposition creating falsehoods and fear of what might happen.

That's no way to leverage a resource.

[G. David Felt]

What we have now is companies resisting all regulation and disclosure and the opposition creating falsehoods and fear of what might happen.

That's no way to leverage a resource.

Very true, I have a company that is wanting to install time fill CNG appliances on site at their business to fuel their bus fleet over night and the Fire Marshell said they just need to fuel at the fast fill 5 miles down since it is safer, blah blah blah blah. I supplied all the CSA certifications and that everything meets the NFPA 52 rules and how much safer these fueling appliances are than even a business hot water tank or heater run on natural gas.

He went into a full blown rage on green, the trees and environment to protect, blah blah blah blah. I finally went over his head to the Seattle Fire board with my documentation and the company now has approval to move forward with their time fill solution. Cost is just about $125,000 but since their bus fleet drives a bit over 25,000 miles a year, they are looking at a ROI of about 6-9 months at $1.25 per gallon versus $2.25 per gallon at the fast fill station.

Fear mongering is one of the biggest problems in Advanced Fuel solutions such as CNG. The technology is solid and good, but we still need companies to play properly on drilling and processing of the gas. Will it ever be perfect? No I doubt it will.

Yet America can kick the importation of Oil and reduce cost and clean up the air by moving to CNG as the advance fuel solution while the engineers work to get electric to the point that you can have a battery the size of a laptop that can run a car for 500 miles.

[Camino LS6]

Yep.

It's an issue of pragmatism, or the lack of it.

[G. David Felt]

Yep.

It's an issue of pragmatism, or the lack of it.

Just think how nice your Camino LS6 would run on CNG 130 Octane fuel. Better yet get the SS version with the LS9 running on CNG.

[Camino LS6]

Such thoughts have crossed my mind...

[G. David Felt]

Such thoughts have crossed my mind...

Dreams never die, they just get bigger and more detailed.

[Drew Dowdell]

What we have now is companies resisting all regulation and disclosure and the opposition creating falsehoods and fear of what might happen.

That's no way to leverage a resource.

Again, incorrect. We have documentation of the bad stuff happening.

[Camino LS6]

What bad stuff?

What documentation?

[G. David Felt]

What we have now is companies resisting all regulation and disclosure and the opposition creating falsehoods and fear of what might happen.

That's no way to leverage a resource.

Again, incorrect. We have documentation of the bad stuff happening.

Olds, other than some bad practices in the early days of the 90's in Natural Gas drilling, I have not found any recent reports showing problems. In fact other than the lies spread by the Anti CNG movement / Anti Natural Gas crowd I have not found anything that says the last 12 years has or still has environmental issues in regards to destorying the property, ground water or pasture lands for animals.