Any upcoming changes for the Avalon?

[Polish_Kris]

The Avalon is obviously a better car than the Corolla, but it is stupidly overpriced.

And, really, for the money, wouldn't a BMW5 look better?

Ya, and the Lucurne is better than a Pursuit, you're compairing apples to oranges.

Ya, but the difference between a Toyota and a BMW5 is that you can have the luxury, and service it at any shop (the Toyota), however BMW needs to be serviced by BMW, btw, an oil change for a BMW5 is 120$CDN, oil change for Avalon, 19,95$ at Mr. Lube, follow my drift?

The Lucurne is an alright car, but for a domestic it is overpriced for what you're getting. 38,000$CDN? for 197 hp V6, 4 speed auto, and dashboard materials out of a Cobalt? Meanwhile, Avalon is 40,150$CDN, and you get 5 speed automatic, 268 horsepower V6, and the interior of a Lexus. Now I know the base Lucurne start out at 30,000$CDN, I am comparing a simularly-equiped Lucurne with an Avalon. The Lucurne would be great if it cost around 28,000$CDN, because you're getting a durable 3800 V6, and an indistructable 4 speed automatic. Before you begin throwing accusations that I'm a Toyota troll, compare the two vehicles, and find out why Toyota is winning the market. A good product, at a competative price. GM's are too overpriced!!! How do they expect to win over import buyers? By pricing their cars almost the same, wake up GM!!! A couple thousand bucks lower than the Japanese wont help them.

[Snate]

Ya, but the difference between a Toyota and a BMW5 is that you can have the luxury, and service it at any shop (the Toyota), however BMW needs to be serviced by BMW, btw, an oil change for a BMW5 is 120$CDN, oil change for Avalon, 19,95$ at Mr. Lube, follow my drift?

Yet with the BMW you get free scheduled maintenance...not so much in the Toyota.

The Lucurne is an alright car, but for a domestic it is overpriced for what you're getting. 38,000$CDN? for 197 hp V6, 4 speed auto, and dashboard materials out of a Cobalt? Meanwhile, Avalon is 40,150$CDN, and you get 5 speed automatic, 268 horsepower V6, and the interior of a Lexus. Now I know the base Lucurne start out at 30,000$CDN, I am comparing a simularly-equiped Lucurne with an Avalon. The Lucurne would be great if it cost around 28,000$CDN, because you're getting a durable 3800 V6, and an indistructable 4 speed automatic. Before you begin throwing accusations that I'm a Toyota troll, compare the two vehicles, and find out why Toyota is winning the market. A good product, at a competative price. GM's are too overpriced!!! How do they expect to win over import buyers? By pricing their cars almost the same, wake up GM!!! A couple thousand bucks lower than the Japanese wont help them.

So what do you mean "overpriced" for a "domestic"? You do realize that Buick has better quality scores than Toyota right?

[CARBIZ]

Creative, you're sure the Avalon has 268? Is that SAE horspower, or what Toyota said? Or didn't you read what the Detroit news had to say about Toyota and Honda lying about their horsepower?

People domestic/versus import biases will undoubtedly influence their buying decisions. Every time I see an Avalon go by I just laugh: it looks awkward and unbalanced, especially from the back end. The new Impala, by comparison, is a far better balanced design.

I don't find the interior of the LTZ Impala (I wouldn't waste my money on V-8 in a FWD platform) cheap or ugly. I find the plastic in the center stack of the Avalon cheap and ugly. The LTZ in the charcoal (not the lighter grey or beige) is quite classy and modern looking, IMO

But if you will base your buying decision on not even having even DRIVEN the vehicle, then that is just SAD. Buy the LTZ and you'll have 3 or 4 years of driving FREE (the $8,000 you saved will buy you 80,000 miles of gasoline!

And BTW, try not taking your Avalon to the dealer and see what happens to your warranty down the road.

[CARBIZ]

Oh, I forgot to add that the Impala is built in the best plant in North and South America for quality, according to JD Powers, but then I guess that is why the taxis are all driving Impalas and not Avalons!

[Camino LS6]

OK, hold the phone, How much does an Avalon cost? 40k Canadian? what's that 32k US or so ? WOW! I would have guessed a base price of 25K or so. I can't imagine spending that much on an Avalon.

[CARBIZ]

The 2006 Avalon Touring sedan lists for $43,235 Canadian, including freight and air tax. Standard on this vehicle is leather heated seats, sunroof, HID headlights, 6 pk in-dash Cd changer, 5 spd. auto.

The 2006 Impala LTZ lists for $35, 425, including freight and air tax, for a difference of $7,810, not including the $500 gas card from PetroCanada or the $700 "virtual coupon" that is currently on the Impala.

So, nearly $8000 difference. Oh, and I added the Bose sound system, leather, sunroof and even put on the 6 pk, just to make both cars equal. Well, I tried to. The IMpala has OnStar and a remote starter as well.

Yeah, the Avalon does have a 5spd auto, but its 268 hp @ 6200 rpm and 248 lb ft @ 4700 rpm is really not that much better than the LTZ's 242 hp @ 6,000 rpm and 242 lb ft @ 4,800 rpm. Both engines are rated pretty close.

Like I said: pocket the 8 grand, buy a 60" plasma TV or have 3 years of gas for free! THE CHOICE IS YOURS.

Or you could just piss your money down the drain and buy the TOYOTA because it is the best, right?

[Robert Hall]

Oh, I forgot to add that the Impala is built in the best plant in North and South America for quality, according to JD Powers, but then I guess that is why the taxis are all driving Impalas and not Avalons!

Hmmm..I don't think that a car is widely used as a taxi is much of an endorsement..I certainly wouldn't want to drive a car that is known for being used as a cab!

[Camino LS6]

Hmmm..I don't think that a car is widely used as a taxi is much of an endorsement..I certainly wouldn't want to drive a car that is known for being used as a cab!

Why not? That fact is a major endorsement of its reliability.

[Camino LS6]

Who's got the US figures at hand?( Avalon/Impala base prices etc.) I can't make the Canadian pricing connection in my head.

[Domesticated]

I'd be embarrassed if I was seen driving an Avalon. I know I would be viewed as a fool for choosing one over a superior GM car. Avalon is nothing more than a Buick wannabe, and it doesn't even stack up against a Malibu to begin with.

Enjoy the bloated Tercel, maybe one day you'll realize you made a mistake and take the exhorbitant trade-in hit on a Chevrolet. It'll be worth it I say. Hopefully you have thick skin as your neighbors and friends will be laughing at you for driving a japtrap.

It's not too late CreativeVision! You can still make the RIGHT choice...

[Mr.Krinkle]

go to germany. youll find benz taxis all over. ok, dont go...take my word for it.

maybe yourre right though, i dont think id a buy a benz.

they use lincoln and fords for the taxis in nyc. a few honda odyseys but no toyotas anywhere.

the avalon is undoubtedly overpriced for what you are actually getting. talk about too many models. where does lexus fall after the fully loaded camry and avalon?

thats a lot of choices.

[Intrepidation]

Hmmm..I don't think that a car is widely used as a taxi is much of an endorsement..I certainly wouldn't want to drive a car that is known for being used as a cab!

I've yet to see an Impala Taxi. I've seen a couple Polic Cruisers, but that's it (also those were the ones before 06). Personally, I would get a 300C. It has a 340 hp V8 that trumps both the Impala and Avalon. It's RWD (or AWD if you prefer the extra winter traction). You can get HID headlights with it, Navi, 500 Watt Boston Acoustics sound system/in dash 6 disc CD changer, Leather, and more. And fully loaded the car tops out at $35,050 (according to Edmunds). That's 2k more than the Avalon..but look what you get for the money. Plus the LX cars haven't had any problems yet. And It looks awesome.

Of course, in the interest of not being "childish" that's just my opinion. Just throwing that car into the mix.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Dodgefan

[Polish_Kris]

I'd be embarrassed if I was seen driving an Avalon. I know I would be viewed as a fool for choosing one over a superior GM car. Avalon is nothing more than a Buick wannabe, and it doesn't even stack up against a Malibu to begin with.

Enjoy the bloated Tercel, maybe one day you'll realize you made a mistake and take the exhorbitant trade-in hit on a Chevrolet. It'll be worth it I say. Hopefully you have thick skin as your neighbors and friends will be laughing at you for driving a japtrap.

It's not too late CreativeVision! You can still make the RIGHT choice...

Shut up, nobody cares what you're saying, especially CreativeVision.

You sound like a member from GMI, who comes on the Asian Marques board and talks non-sense.

Go to GMI, you'll fit in nicely over there.

[Domesticated]

I like C&G alot. I do read GMI, but I don't post there, too crowded. This group is much smaller, more personable.

I hate imports, big deal, I shouldn't be blasted for trashing them. Especially on a supposed GM fansite

[Intrepidation]

I like C&G alot. I do read GMI, but I don't post there, too crowded. This group is much smaller, more personable.

I hate imports, big deal, I shouldn't be blasted for trashing them. Especially on a supposed GM fansite 

You know, I don't care for the Avalon, and personally I can't figure out why creative loves the car. but it's his money, if he wants it then let him have it. This may be a primarily GM site, but it's for car enthusiasts of any kind, and as enthusiats, we should be open to all makes and models. Now i creatve were just loving the car just because it's a Toyota, then I'd have a problem with that, but I think he just happens to like the car.

So yeah, sorry creative for questioning your love of the car, I was more curious than anything else.

[Polish_Kris]

Creative, you're sure the Avalon has 268?  Is that SAE horspower, or what Toyota said?  Or didn't you read what the Detroit news had to say about Toyota and Honda lying about their horsepower?

No, No this is SAE. When the Avalon came out with the non-SAE measures it was 280 hp, remember? They weren't lying about their hp, that's an exaggeration. They were testing their engines under Japanese standards. Therefore, under SAE, it is 268 hp.

But if you will base your buying decision on not even having even DRIVEN the vehicle, then that is just SAD.  Buy the LTZ and you'll have 3 or 4 years of driving FREE (the $8,000 you saved will buy you 80,000 miles of gasoline!

  And BTW, try not taking your Avalon to the dealer and see what happens to your warranty  down the road.

If anything, I know a mechanic working for GM, and he tells me it's very hard to get warranty work out of GM. I was told that GM will tell the mechanic to do anything not to award the warranty. I know two guys who worked for Toyota, and there was no discussion, just claim warranty. And as for pocketing $8000, I'm sure you will at purchase, but 3 or 4 down the road, you will still get back an extra $8000 because you will still get allot for the Avalon, meanwhile you wont get much back for an Impala (believe me I know). If you buy domestic, it's good to lease, because you don't have to worry about selling it, and getting nothing back for it, or buy it, and keep it til it dies.

[Intrepidation]

No, No this is SAE.  When the Avalon came out with the non-SAE measures it was 280 hp, remember?  They weren't lying about their hp, that's an exaggeration.  They were testing their engines under Japanese standards.  Therefore, under SAE, it is 268 hp. 

If anything, I know a mechanic working for GM, and he tells me it's very hard to get warranty work out of GM.  I was told that GM will tell the mechanic to do anything not to award the warranty.  I know two guys who worked for Toyota, and there was no discussion, just claim warranty.  And as for pocketing $8000, I'm sure you will at purchase, but 3 or 4 down the road, you will still get back an extra $8000 because you will still get allot for the Avalon, meanwhile you wont get much back for an Impala (believe me I know).  If you buy domestic, it's good to lease, because you don't have to worry about selling it, and getting nothing back for it, or buy it, and keep it til it dies.

That's how I plan for my cars to be. If I'm shelling out money for a new car, no matter who makes it, I'm keeping it

Plus, I don't think I'd have the heart to give up a car.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Dodgefan

[CARBIZ]

Polish, your info is BULLS**T. GM service advisors will try and put it through warranty - why would the dealer care? The dealer gets paid either way. In the interest of customer relations, of course they would rather put it through warranty. Of course, GM does audit dealers and with forensic accounting methods will be able to spot a dealer that is being too, shall we say generous, with warranty claims.

Every manufacturer has "goodwill" warranty extensions and can even appeal to district level in extraordinary circumstances. However, I know from experience (our company owns two Toyota stores!) that over at Toyota you had better be able to prove the vehicle was dealer maintained if you have a serious problem under warranty.

At Ford and GM you can do your own oil changes (although I would not recommend that route) as long as you keep your receipts.

FOR A FACT, ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS TOYOTA ENJOYS SUCH A STERLING REPUTATION IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE ALWAYS INSISTED THE VEHICLE BE DEALER MAINTAINED, OR YOU WILL LOSE YOUR WARRANTY.

Never hear of Toyota's engine coking problems? The dealers in the States were threatening lawsuits to get Toyota to finally put a power train warranty on the engines!

And ever hear of cost of money? $8,000 in a GIC at 2 or 3 % will net another $1,000 in earnings over a 4 or 5 year period, plus the cost savings on servicing (the Impala only needs to go in every 6 months) and generally lower insurance costs on domestics - well, I could go on, but then I am in the business and know what I am talking about.

Then again, you must work for Toyota because your HEARSAY and "I used to know two mechanics" bull$h! is the same kind of crap that is sinking GM now!

I have been doing this for 9 years and, believe me, the horror stories and crap over at our sister Toyota store is buried very deep, but they have just as many bodies buried there!

Toyota builds decent vehicles, to be sure, but it is the unbridled CRAP that import humpers spew about the Big Three that gets my goat.

"I used to know...." OMIGOD, I gotta have a drink....................

[enzl]

Polish, your info is BULLS**T.  GM service advisors will try and put it through warranty - why would the dealer care?  The dealer gets paid either way.  In the interest of customer relations, of course they would rather put it through warranty.  Of course, GM does audit dealers and with forensic accounting methods will be able to spot a dealer that is being too, shall we say generous, with warranty claims.

  Every manufacturer has "goodwill" warranty extensions and can even appeal to district level in extraordinary circumstances.  However, I know from experience (our company owns two Toyota stores!) that over at Toyota you had better be able to prove the vehicle was dealer maintained if you have a serious problem under warranty.

  At Ford and GM you can do your own oil changes (although I would not recommend that route) as long as you keep your receipts.

  FOR A FACT, ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS TOYOTA ENJOYS SUCH A STERLING REPUTATION IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE ALWAYS INSISTED THE VEHICLE BE DEALER MAINTAINED, OR YOU WILL LOSE YOUR WARRANTY.

  Never hear of Toyota's engine coking problems?  The dealers in the States were threatening lawsuits to get Toyota to finally put a power train warranty on the engines!

  And ever hear of cost of money?  $8,000 in a GIC at 2 or 3 % will net another $1,000 in earnings over a 4 or 5 year period, plus the cost savings on servicing (the Impala only needs to go in every 6 months) and generally lower insurance costs on domestics - well, I could go on, but then I am in the business and know what I am talking about.

  Then again, you must work for Toyota because your HEARSAY  and "I used to know two mechanics" bull$h! is the same kind of crap that is sinking GM now!

  I have been doing this for 9 years and, believe me, the horror stories and crap over at our sister Toyota store is buried very deep, but they have just as many bodies buried there!

  Toyota builds decent vehicles, to be sure, but it is the unbridled CRAP that import humpers spew about the Big Three that gets my goat.

  "I used to know...."  OMIGOD, I gotta have a drink....................

Toyota absolutely will accept warranty claims for cars with maintenance done outside....as long as you keep the receipts...which is what most manufacturer's insist upon...We own a Toyota store. Plenty of warranty work is done on outside cars...I just have to call BS on you because you're pulling it on someone else!

The only unbiased part of your rant is that every service rep will put through whatever you bring in the door. Money is money, whether from Manufacturer or owner.

[sciguy_0504]

I have only seen Sienna taxis and mainly in NYC for large groups of people. There are also Odyssey taxis, too. I have seen a few Impala taxis in Philly. Taxis, taxis, taxis.

[Snate]

I saw alot of Toyota taxis in Hawaii. Mainly Siennas but also a Camry or two. At least half of the rentals were Toyotas too...I guess it must have something to do with the large population of Asian visitors.

[The O.C.]

Toyota and Honda apologists are far too forgiving for vehicles like the Avalon and Ridgeline.  I spent some time in both of them recently and was somewhat shocked at the ugly plastic inside.

  I just don't get the Avalon.  Never have.  The Camry, at least, is a balanced looking car and is more reasonably priced.  I just can't see anybody in their right mind paying $8,000 more for an Avalon over an Impala LTZ.

  The trunk is unforgivably small.  The interior is plasticky.  IMO, the outside design is not balanced.  I wouldn't call this car ugly, but I would by the Lexus ES over the Avalon any day.

  Why would one pay $40,000 for a Toyota?  At least buy a Lexus!

Well, I gotta chime in by now.

I looked at a bunch of Avalons on the Toyota lot when I was scanning the new Camry and I've gotta tell you the Avalon Touring is the deal......

For $31-32K, you've got a pretty-well loaded Avalon with leather, moonroof, yadda, yadda AND the touring's slightly firmer suspension tuning AND the silver metallic trim replacing the bright wood. Plus you get a more attractive wheel-and-tire package.

I really question ANYONE that calls an Avalon's interior "plasticky" and then wonders why anyone wouldn't pick an Impala LTZ over it. Have these people literally sat in both cars and compared?

Impala's okay....and a nice GM effort....but the interior isn't nearly as large inside, or as comfortable in the back, AND it certainly doesn't have as nice of materials inside as the Toyota.....cheesy center stack doors or not.....

Plus, for low-30's......you get a strong and super smooth V6 that punts the Avalon from 0-60 in 6secs flat. The ONLY GM sedan that can beat it (and barely at that) is an Impala SS or Grand Prix GXP at around 5.7secs 0-60.....and I'm guessing the Avalon will provide WAY better real-world fuel economy.

To get a closely comparably-driving Lucerne, you are looking at AT LEAST a CXS model at around $36K-$38K. The CXL is too floaty and boaty....the V6 is too underpowered....hell the V8 isn't near as quick....

SO....based on what he's looking for, I'd say Avalon Touring is the way to go.

I would probably take a fully-loaded Lucerne CXS over the Avalon.....but then I'll spend alot more money for it.....so if price is a serious issue, the Avalon Touring at $32K looks very attractive next to the Lucerne at $38K.

[The O.C.]

Ya, but the difference between a Toyota and a BMW5 is that you can have the luxury, and service it at any shop (the Toyota), however BMW needs to be serviced by BMW, btw, an oil change for a BMW5 is 120$CDN, oil change for Avalon, 19,95$ at Mr. Lube, follow my drift? 

Ahhh.....but you don't have to pay for ANY service (even brakes) on any BMW for the life of the warranty (4yrs/50K miles.)

Who cares if you end up going to a BMW dealership for that (free) service? Any time I had to go, I made an appointment....and waited for a LOF just like anywhere else I went.....and sometimes I even got a loaner....

[The O.C.]

Creative, you're sure the Avalon has 268?  Is that SAE horspower, or what Toyota said?  Or didn't you read what the Detroit news had to say about Toyota and Honda lying about their horsepower?

Every time I see an Avalon go by I just laugh: it looks awkward and unbalanced, especially from the back end.  The new Impala, by comparison, is a far better balanced design.

Yep.....268hp.....and even better, compare C&D test numbers.....

Avalon 0-60 in 6.0secs flat. Lucerne NorthStar, 0-60 in 6.9secs.....REGARDLESS of what the Avalon's actual "SAE" number is. The performance is there....as is the fuel economy if you read C&D's actual "test" mpg numbers.

Oh....and Impala looks like nothing more than a "Hertz Rental Car Special." Avalon certainly doesn't.

AND I wouldn't call Impala's overly huge front-and-rear overhangs (thanks, ancient W-car/GM-10 architecture) a "better balanced design."

[The O.C.]

Yeah, the Avalon does have a 5spd auto, but its 268 hp @ 6200 rpm and 248 lb ft @ 4700 rpm is really not that much better than the LTZ's 242 hp @ 6,000 rpm and 242 lb ft @ 4,800 rpm.  Both engines are rated pretty close.

You are seriously out of touch here.

I've also driven both (okay my 3.9L drive was in a Monte Carlo) and the Avalon spanks the Chevy so bad it's not even funny. (and the 3.9 doesn't run that bad either....)

Reference my above post quoting C&D acceleration numbers.

[CreativeVision]

Creative, you're sure the Avalon has 268?  Is that SAE horspower, or what Toyota said?  Or didn't you read what the Detroit news had to say about Toyota and Honda lying about their horsepower?

  People domestic/versus import biases will undoubtedly influence their buying decisions.  Every time I see an Avalon go by I just laugh: it looks awkward and unbalanced, especially from the back end.  The new Impala, by comparison, is a far better balanced design.

  I don't find the interior of the LTZ Impala (I wouldn't waste my money on V-8 in a FWD platform) cheap or ugly.  I find the plastic in the center stack of the Avalon cheap and ugly.  The LTZ in the charcoal (not the lighter grey or beige) is quite classy and modern looking, IMO

  But if you will base your buying decision on not even having even DRIVEN the vehicle, then that is just SAD.  Buy the LTZ and you'll have 3 or 4 years of driving FREE (the $8,000 you saved will buy you 80,000 miles of gasoline!

  And BTW, try not taking your Avalon to the dealer and see what happens to your warranty  down the road.

268HP is the new SAE standard. 280 is what it used to be claimed as by Toyota prior to the new regulations. You are entitled to your opinion just the same as I am to mine. My last post should have cleared this up, I just see things differently on the interior standpoint. I'm not here to argue which is better, that could go on forever as neither of us would want to concede that the other is correct. My last post also addressed your comment about driving the cars. I haven't yet test drove any car, as I am not in the market yet. But first impressions from seeing the car in person and sitting in them at the Auto show go a long way to me. I agreed with the poster who stated the test drive is the ultimate tell-tale on basing a purchase decision. I plan to test drive a multitude of vehicles before I buy. Could I end up buying a Lucerne or LTZ...sure!

BTW: do you really want to have the same car as all the taxis? Isn't this almost worse than a rental car in terms of what it does to a car's resale value.

This thread has really gotten way off the original topic. My original intent was to ask a simple question as to upcoming changes to the Avalon. Now I find myself defending my taste in vehicles because posters couldn't stay on topic.

[CreativeVision]

I'd be embarrassed if I was seen driving an Avalon. I know I would be viewed as a fool for choosing one over a superior GM car. Avalon is nothing more than a Buick wannabe, and it doesn't even stack up against a Malibu to begin with.

Enjoy the bloated Tercel, maybe one day you'll realize you made a mistake and take the exhorbitant trade-in hit on a Chevrolet. It'll be worth it I say. Hopefully you have thick skin as your neighbors and friends will be laughing at you for driving a japtrap.

It's not too late CreativeVision! You can still make the RIGHT choice...

And as embarrassing as you think you would be driving an Avalon(or other "japtrap" as you call it), imagine how embarrassing you are to this forum due to your lack of an open mind. I understand this is a GM fansite first and foremost, but there are other mfg forums for a reason. If you can't stand being seen in the car, why spend so much time inside this forum? Your a closet import lover aren't you?

I think I am making the RIGHT choice by avoiding any car that would be associated with people like you who are so one-track minded and ensure the world will always have discriminations.

[CreativeVision]

You know, I don't care for the Avalon, and personally I can't figure out why creative loves the car. but it's his money, if he wants it then let him have it. This may be a primarily GM site, but it's for car enthusiasts of any kind, and as enthusiats, we should be open to all makes and models. Now i creatve were just loving the car just because it's a Toyota, then I'd have a problem with that, but I think he just happens to like the car.

So yeah, sorry creative for questioning your love of the car, I was more curious than anything else.

Dodgefan: Thanks for the apology. It wasn't necessary but I appreciate the extension.

I am definitely not one for "jumping on the bandwagon" so to speak, and I'm glad you recognize I don't want the Avalon due to it being a Toyota. If it were another make, I would like it just the same.

[Ravenfreak13]

All I have to say is 300C

[pow]

Well, I gotta chime in by now.

I looked at a bunch of Avalons on the Toyota lot when I was scanning the new Camry and I've gotta tell you the Avalon Touring is the deal......

For $31-32K, you've got a pretty-well loaded Avalon with leather, moonroof, yadda, yadda AND the touring's slightly firmer suspension tuning AND the silver metallic trim replacing the bright wood.  Plus you get a more attractive wheel-and-tire package.

I really question ANYONE that calls an Avalon's interior "plasticky" and then wonders why anyone wouldn't pick an Impala LTZ over it.  Have these people literally sat in both cars and compared? 

Impala's okay....and a nice GM effort....but the interior isn't nearly as large inside, or as comfortable in the back, AND it certainly doesn't have as nice of materials inside as the Toyota.....cheesy center stack doors or not.....

Plus, for low-30's......you get a strong and super smooth V6 that punts the Avalon from 0-60 in 6secs flat.  The ONLY GM sedan that can beat it (and barely at that) is an Impala SS or Grand Prix GXP at around 5.7secs 0-60.....and I'm guessing the Avalon will provide WAY better real-world fuel economy.

To get a closely comparably-driving Lucerne, you are looking at AT LEAST a CXS model at around $36K-$38K.  The CXL is too floaty and boaty....the V6 is too underpowered....hell the V8 isn't near as quick....

SO....based on what he's looking for, I'd say Avalon Touring is the way to go. 

I would probably take a fully-loaded Lucerne CXS over the Avalon.....but then I'll spend alot more money for it.....so if price is a serious issue, the Avalon Touring at $32K looks very attractive next to the Lucerne at $38K.

Two of our neighbors have bought Avalon Tourings, and if I wanted a big family sedan, that's the one I'd get. A quick check of the Toyota site shows that the Touring model is $29,025 with standard Xenons, fogs, power front seats, leather, side curtain airbags, and reclining rear seats.

[Polish_Kris]

The 2006 Avalon Touring sedan lists for $43,235 Canadian, including freight and air tax.  Standard on this vehicle is leather heated seats, sunroof, HID headlights, 6 pk in-dash Cd changer, 5 spd. auto.

  The 2006 Impala LTZ lists for $35, 425, including freight and air tax, for a difference of $7,810, not including the $500 gas card from PetroCanada or the $700 "virtual coupon" that is currently on the Impala.

  So, nearly $8000 difference.  Oh, and I added the Bose sound system, leather, sunroof and even put on the 6 pk, just to make both cars equal.  Well, I tried to.  The IMpala has OnStar and a remote starter as well.

  Yeah, the Avalon does have a 5spd auto, but its 268 hp @ 6200 rpm and 248 lb ft @ 4700 rpm is really not that much better than the LTZ's 242 hp @ 6,000 rpm and 242 lb ft @ 4,800 rpm.  Both engines are rated pretty close.

  Like I said: pocket the 8 grand, buy a 60" plasma TV or have 3 years of gas for free!  THE CHOICE IS YOURS.

  Or you could just piss your money down the drain and buy the TOYOTA because it is the best, right?

Polish, your info is BULLS**T.  GM service advisors will try and put it through warranty - why would the dealer care?  The dealer gets paid either way.  In the interest of customer relations, of course they would rather put it through warranty.  Of course, GM does audit dealers and with forensic accounting methods will be able to spot a dealer that is being too, shall we say generous, with warranty claims.

  Every manufacturer has "goodwill" warranty extensions and can even appeal to district level in extraordinary circumstances.  However, I know from experience (our company owns two Toyota stores!) that over at Toyota you had better be able to prove the vehicle was dealer maintained if you have a serious problem under warranty.

  At Ford and GM you can do your own oil changes (although I would not recommend that route) as long as you keep your receipts.

  FOR A FACT, ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS TOYOTA ENJOYS SUCH A STERLING REPUTATION IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE ALWAYS INSISTED THE VEHICLE BE DEALER MAINTAINED, OR YOU WILL LOSE YOUR WARRANTY.

  Never hear of Toyota's engine coking problems?  The dealers in the States were threatening lawsuits to get Toyota to finally put a power train warranty on the engines!

  And ever hear of cost of money?  $8,000 in a GIC at 2 or 3 % will net another $1,000 in earnings over a 4 or 5 year period, plus the cost savings on servicing (the Impala only needs to go in every 6 months) and generally lower insurance costs on domestics - well, I could go on, but then I am in the business and know what I am talking about.

  Then again, you must work for Toyota because your HEARSAY  and "I used to know two mechanics" bull$h! is the same kind of crap that is sinking GM now!

  I have been doing this for 9 years and, believe me, the horror stories and crap over at our sister Toyota store is buried very deep, but they have just as many bodies buried there!

  Toyota builds decent vehicles, to be sure, but it is the unbridled CRAP that import humpers spew about the Big Three that gets my goat.

  "I used to know...."  OMIGOD, I gotta have a drink....................

CARBIZ: I noticed you're very partisan when it comes to the imports, especially Toyota. Like O.C. said, you are out of touch, using numbers that are LOWER, and still saying it is not a big difference Then making personal attacks against me, and then telling us these horror stories of your sister's Toyota. Isn't that hearsay as well? I'm speaking from a realistic point of view, but you, and some members on the board, are so partisan, that no matter what Toyota does, it's always going to be bad.

[CARBIZ]

My sister's Toyota? She's never had a Toyota. Can you even read?

All of the prices I have quoted and horsepower numbers are right off Toyota's labels. I am quoting CANADIAN PRICES and they are directly off Toyota's website. Go on to www.toyota.ca if you don't believe me.

If you don't consider $8,000 a big difference, then I'd love to be your accountant. As I said earlier, at least buy a Lexus is you must buy an import!

I give Toyota and others their due when they deserve it. I have harped on the point (as has FOG and others) that although Toyota builds decent cars, they don't deserve the free ride they are getting from CR and others.

I mean, all things being equal, wouldn't you rather save your neighbors job than send $40,000 to Tokyo?

[CreativeVision]

I mean, all things being equal, wouldn't you rather save your neighbors job than send $40,000 to Tokyo?

That depends...what if my neighbor works at a US Toyota assembly plant, a US based regional office, or at a Toyota dealership in the US. Wouldn't I equally want to help save his/her job by buying a Toyota then?

I know what your trying to say, buy a japanese car and the money goes to Japan. But I had another post(can't remember if it were on this website or Autoweek.com), that posed this very question. Sure most of the profits are helping a Japan based company, but as much as their origins reside in Japan, they also employ tens of thousands(?) here in the US. As much as people don't like it, Japanese(and European, Korean, and soon Chinese) mfgs are here and they are here to stay. They do play a very important role to the US economy.

Besides your in Canada...do you buy all your products in the US to help our economy and save jobs here? Maybe some, but I'm sure not everything.

[regfootball]

LOL, i see a lot of comparisons where someone says you can get a new plasma tv with your money saved......lots o folks want the plasma tv these days.

The 2006 Avalon Touring sedan lists for $43,235 Canadian, including freight and air tax.  Standard on this vehicle is leather heated seats, sunroof, HID headlights, 6 pk in-dash Cd changer, 5 spd. auto.

  The 2006 Impala LTZ lists for $35, 425, including freight and air tax, for a difference of $7,810, not including the $500 gas card from PetroCanada or the $700 "virtual coupon" that is currently on the Impala.

  So, nearly $8000 difference.  Oh, and I added the Bose sound system, leather, sunroof and even put on the 6 pk, just to make both cars equal.  Well, I tried to.  The IMpala has OnStar and a remote starter as well.

  Yeah, the Avalon does have a 5spd auto, but its 268 hp @ 6200 rpm and 248 lb ft @ 4700 rpm is really not that much better than the LTZ's 242 hp @ 6,000 rpm and 242 lb ft @ 4,800 rpm.  Both engines are rated pretty close.

  Like I said: pocket the 8 grand, buy a 60" plasma TV or have 3 years of gas for free!  THE CHOICE IS YOURS.

  Or you could just piss your money down the drain and buy the TOYOTA because it is the best, right?

[Mr.Krinkle]

give me the box!

ill take the box!!

yeah, but i get what 'biz is saying. unless you really want the other thing for whatever reason, you are paying a premium.

the other options out there arent garbage and the price difference can be substantial.

gas, a plasma tv, a lawnmower, gas for your lawnmower...whatever with the saved money.

you want to spend more just be sure you know what yourre getting, what you think yourre getting, and what you actually are getting.

god bless freedom of choice.

i still like the box though anyway.

:AH-HA_wink:

edit: i just happen to walk my ass to the store over here and saw a brand new avalon parked on the corner...

i gotta say it looked alright, i just got a very generic feeling as i was walking up to it...not bad, just ehhh. i thought the interior looked nice but it just left me cold overall.

ya know, whatever floats your boat...just my 2 cents.

j

Edited April 27, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[Polish_Kris]

My sister's Toyota?  She's never had a Toyota.  Can you even read? 

My bad I was half-asleep when I read your post, but you get my point, and I sort of get your point. You're a bit right about the $8,000, however, you gotta take a less partisan approach to this, and face the fact that as much as all of want, GM is currently not producing world-class vehicles like Toyota is, and until that happens it's best of them to drop the prices lower in order to stay heavily competative. Like they were doing fifteen years ago, when Japanese cars were almost twice as much expensive than American cars, and buying an American car was worth it because of the lower price. Now the domestics have almost tied with the Imports, so what's the better deal?

[Intrepidation]

My bad    I was half-asleep when I read your post, but you get my point, and I sort of get your point.  You're a bit right about the $8,000, however, you gotta take a less partisan approach to this, and face the fact that as much as all of want, GM is currently not producing world-class vehicles like Toyota is, and until that happens it's best of them to drop the prices lower in order to stay heavily competative.  Like they were doing fifteen years ago, when Japanese cars were almost twice as much expensive than American cars, and buying an American car was worth it because of the lower price.  Now the domestics have almost tied with the Imports, so what's the better deal?

For the sake of arguing, Toyota's not producing world class cars either. Quality wise, they are very good, but world class also includes design, performance, handling, and reliability. Toyota's got reliability nailed for the most part. But design and performance wise, they are still lacking? Are they getting better? Yes and no. Designs are showing progress, but they still haven't figured out the performance part. They feel too much like appliances, and the eectrobnic nannies are so intrusive it's impossible to have any fun. That's my problem with the IS for example. Looks way better than the new 3 series inside and out, but the 3 series is such a great handling, responsive car that it's more than the sum of its parts. I know this is devating from t he Avalon topic, but yeah

Also, I'm not saying GM has world class cars, cuz they don't, not y et. The new CTS may indeed be world class, if the spyshots are any idication, I would say the new GMT900s are world class by full size SUV standards, but the Impala or Lucerne? eh...not really.

I like the Lucerne's exterior, and I like the Avalon's power/interior. But I'd much prefer a 300C. Out of all the aformentioned cars in, I think it'd be closest to World Class. RWS, 340 HP hemi, lots of standard and optional features, great, distinctive looks, and pretty good quality. No wonder why they still fly off the shelves.

As for price...The Impala is a good buy but I think the Avalon is more upscale. Again, my choice would be the 300C, but I'm not the one buying

Edited April 27, 2006 by Dodgefan

[CreativeVision]

For the sake of arguing, Toyota's not producing world class cars either. Quality wise, they are very good, but world class also includes design, performance, handling, and reliability. Toyota's got reliability nailed for the most part. But design and performance wise, they are still lacking? Are they getting better? Yes and no. Designs are showing progress, but they still haven't figured out the performance part. They feel too much like appliances, and the eectrobnic nannies are so intrusive it's impossible to have any fun. That's my problem with the IS for example. Looks way better than the new 3 series inside and out, but  the 3 series is such a great handling, responsive car that it's more than the sum of its parts. I know this is devating from t he Avalon topic, but yeah

Also, I'm not saying GM has world class cars, cuz they don't, not y et. The new CTS may indeed be world class, if the spyshots are any idication, I would say the new GMT900s are world class by full size SUV standards, but the Impala or Lucerne? eh...not really.

I like the Lucerne's exterior, and I like the Avalon's power/interior. But I'd much prefer a 300C. Out of all the aformentioned cars in, I think it'd be closest to World Class. RWS, 340 HP hemi, lots of standard and optional features, great, distinctive looks, and pretty good quality. No wonder why they still fly off the shelves.

As for price...The Impala is a good buy but I think the Avalon is more upscale. Again, my choice would be the 300C, but I'm not the one buying

DodgeFan: I think you got it right about the Impala being a good buy. I totally agree with this...but is not in the same class as the Avalon. I think this is what I was struggling with earlier in this thread. For the life of me I can't understand how people can put the Impala and Avalon in the same comparo. The Avalon is Toyota's flagship car, and yet the Impala is just a basic family commuter in the mid-size class(?), more in line to compete against the Camry/Accord. No wonder you can come up with a $8,000 price difference. Throw in the Lucerne and now I get how it competes with the Avalon. Price point, interior refinement and general customer base all make for a better (and fair) comparison. As I said before, the Lucerne would only need a 5- or 6-speed, and a stronger (240?) HP V6 to draw me back to the US.

Edited April 28, 2006 by CreativeVision

[Intrepidation]

DodgeFan: I think you got it right about the Impala being a good buy.  I totally agree with this...but is not in the same class as the Avalon.  I think this is what I was struggling with earlier in this thread.  For the life of me I can't understand how people can put the Impala and Avalon in the same comparo.  The Avalon is Toyota's flagship car, and yet the Impala is just a basic family commuter in the mid-size class(?), more in line to compete against the Camry/Accord.  No wonder you can come up with a $8,000 price difference.  Throw in the Lucerne and now I get how it competes with the Avalon.  Price point, interior refinement and general customer base all make for a better (and fair) comparison.  As I said before, the Lucerne would only need a 5- or 6-speed, and a stronger (240?) HP V6 to draw me back to the US.

"As for price...The Impala is a good buy but I think the Avalon is more upscale." I agreed with you

I agree, teh Lucerne needs a 5 or 6 speed.

So just out of curiousity...have you considered the 300? I think the Touring is supposed to get a 5-speed auto paired with the 250 hp V6 soon. You can get a Nav and all kinds of goodies on it...and you can get real wood trim in it; something you can't get on either the Avalon or the Lucerne.

[CARBIZ]

I didn't know that 202" was considered "mid-size." The Impala is bigger than the Camry, while the Camry is bigger than the Malibu.

I guess those of us who grew up with GM and watched in horror as the first Toyopets and Datsuns threw up on our shores, can't believe anyone would WANT to pay $43,000 (Canadian) for a Toyota. Where will it end?

Toyota is going to be guilty of blurring the lines, just like GM has done with its brands. Really: a $40,000 Toyota? Lexus, fine - but not Toyota.

GM did the same thing in 1966 with the Caprice tagged onto the Impala line, and then from there the price just kept going up until the price of a Caprice was the same as a LeSabre.

The Japanese may have learned a few tricks, but they seem to be hell-bent on making the same mistakes, too.

[El Scorcho]

I didn't know that 202" was considered "mid-size."  The Impala is bigger than the Camry, while the Camry is bigger than the Malibu.

Yeah, the size thingie is based on a combination of interior and trunk volume.

[ponchoman49]

Hopefully Toyota will change the following for MY 2008:

1) 6 speed automatic tranny with smoother shifts than the current one

2) A trunk bigger than 14.4 cubic feet

3) More distinctive front and rear styling that makes it look less bloated

4) Bodyside protection molding to ward off dings and help the dull side appearance

5) Less gimmicky interior

6) Darker color woodgrain and maybe a little less of it

7) A better designed navigation system. Consumers on Edmunds site it as a poor design

Softer seats. The current ones are too hard for the intended elderly audience

9) Less teething problems. Far too many people having troubles with this car than should be for the price it commands. Check out all the forums on Edmunds, Yahoo and MSN.

[Bluesman]

Two of our neighbors have bought Avalon Tourings, and if I wanted a big family sedan, that's the one I'd get. A quick check of the Toyota site shows that the Touring model is $29,025 with standard Xenons, fogs, power front seats, leather, side curtain airbags, and reclining rear seats.

Yup, been a GM man all my life. I currently own (3) GM products. Even worked as a mechanic for (2) different GM dealers in the 80's.

My next new car will be a 2007 Toyota Avalon Touring.........

To answer the initial question on this thread, I'm told the new 6 speed trans. is a "definite" for 2007 and possibly an 18 inch wheel.