GM plus?............. who should GM partner with? (Mazda?)

[regfootball]

Just thinking. GM got in bed with PSA.... GM used to be with some other mfr's.

Is there anyone on the world stage that maybe WOULD make sense for GM to be with?

For example, Mazda needs help, and GM could possibly benefit. Thoughts?

[Carguy]

Part of me would like to see Mazda and GM come together due to Mazda's unique way of doing things! But how would that work with their seemingly growing relationship with Fiat? I wish GM and Lotus would join so as to develope a new DI Turbo 4VPC DOHC V8 for both to use! Cadillac truly needs a premium Turbo V8 as does Lotus for their future models!

[hyperv6]

I would like to see GM team with a much stronger partner. Honda is a company that wants to remain independent but they are also facing the rising cost of development and will need to share in cost with someone at some point.

GM and Honda if they could work together well enough to share things to help in development of drivelines and platforms it would help each. They both could share money and technology, Both are very strong in technology and would make each much better with new MPG products etc.

Mazda really has little to offer. They once were on a roll but now have stallled out. If there was any value Ford would not have left the party.

Mazda, Suzuki, and Isuzu really have little to offer. Companies like BMW and Honda are both companies that want to remain independent and each will need a partner. BMW is looking to be getting closer to Toyota for help in shared cost and development. Most of the other companies of any real value are already tied up. Honda is still free player but will need to share cost. The only real issue is has GM changed enough to make it possible for Honda to work easily with them. I know in the past the politics inside GM made it difficult for GM to deal with GM let alone an outsider.

Lotus cars is a dead horse. Now Lotus technology is a group GM should have never sold. I would like to see them join closer again as GM still works with them. They did much of the work in the Eco Turbo and is one of the reasons this engine has been as trouble free as it has been. If GM did join them again or buy them they would need to make sure not to try to change them and let them operate as they have been.

[hyperv6]

Anyone read the new lately?

Anyone see the news where GM is working on some projects with Honda and they both would like to work together on more in the future.

See my above post from 2012

[balthazar]

Project partnering is fine, but an actual merger/acquisition would primarily reverse 2008's downsizing. Gm still has a full plate, and as much as I would daydream for a return of some shuttered divisions; no.

[Drew Dowdell]

I like Mazda's 4-cylinders and the efficiency of their automatics seems good.  Aside from that, I don't see any benefit to GM for the partnership.

 

I am beginning to wonder about Honda's health. I drove the new Pilot twice and the new RLX Hybrid.   There are some serious deficiencies in both of these products that point to severe cost cutting.

 

The Pilot is a particular head-scratcher to me, and it will be interesting to see what the rest of the motoring press says about it. I'm guessing they'll fluff it up as the best in class..... but I simply cannot see it. It doesn't trump any of the major competition, some of which has been on the market for years already.  Traverse, Pathfinder, Explorer, Durango, Highlander, all have vastly superior interiors...   The $46k spent on the Pilot Elite that I drove would buy you a lot of Explorer.... but the interior felt like a base CR-V...... it actually felt worse than my 2004 CR-V. 

 

Something serious is brewing at Honda, and I don't know how much longer their reputation will sustain them without outside help.

[regfootball]

Honda if i recall is not near as strong in their own country as we perceive them to be in this country.

 

Honda has struggled with which side of the line they are on when it comes to automobiles.  Are they a refined, well engineered piece, or are they a cheap and efficient value based $h!box?

 

I'd rather see Honda prevail than Toyota but all factors suggest Toyota is the juggernaut and now especially more so considering the tie up with Subaru.

 

You are not the only one to notice the craptasticism of Honda recently.  I believe it started near the end of the 00's with the last Pilot and then it proceeded to extend to last new Civic and a bit to the Accord.  The designs lost their edge and almost had a Korean feel to them.  

 

Every one of the last gen Honda products I've been brave enough to be in have been NVH bombs with cheapness inside.  My most recent test of the CRv which is in reader reviews, I came away reviled with how bad it was (and why in the hell do people buy them)?

 

My opinions were validated I feel when a good buddy of mine who has leased 2 Pilots and one or two CR'vs recently switched to a Toyota Highlander and he kept going on about how bad the CR-v was.  I mean really how downright bad it was.  And for crying out louds the Highlander is not bad but when a Toyota product feels like luxury compared to a Honda, there is a problem.

 

Acura is unfocused and maybe some would suggest is it even needed anymore?  Honda appeared to take themselves downmarket and I think they risk losing some fans.

 

Just in time arrives the new Civic though.  I have to admit I am flabberghasted at the new direction for the Civic.  It has increased in size and it's cavernous inside.  They are trying to make it sporting and there may be a coupe.  Honda even is wading into the turbo waters.  This may be the Civic that can take back people that moved away from Honda to other brands, pull them back.

 

Outside of the Civic though yes I think Honda has some misdirection that should cause for concern.

 

Even with Honda's engineering prowess I don't think I like the notion of GM cars becoming Hondaized in anyway.  If Hondas process for reliability rubbed off some, maybe. But seriously, Honda can't match the prowess of a CTS-v or Corvette as far as I am concerned and I don't think GM should gravitate their products to an Asian feel quite so much either.

 

Call me weird, but if GM hooks up with any Japanese name these days I wonder if Nissan wouldn't bring the best long term results (just leave the CVT out of the mix)

[Drew Dowdell]

Call me weird, but if GM hooks up with any Japanese name these days I wonder if Nissan wouldn't bring the best long term results (just leave the CVT out of the mix)

 

What does Nissan have to offer GM?  The VQ? Nah, the newest GM 3.6 is far more advanced.  CVTs?  Maybe on the Spark and Sonic, but GM seems to have them lined up already.  Other transmission tech?  What would Nissan contribute that the granddaddy of Automatic transmission builders can't or hasn't done already?  Lower weight platforms?  GM already has that in the works. 

 

I just don't see anything that Nissan has to offer that GM might want.

[hyperv6]

I like Mazda's 4-cylinders and the efficiency of their automatics seems good.  Aside from that, I don't see any benefit to GM for the partnership.

 

I am beginning to wonder about Honda's health. I drove the new Pilot twice and the new RLX Hybrid.   There are some serious deficiencies in both of these products that point to severe cost cutting.

 

The Pilot is a particular head-scratcher to me, and it will be interesting to see what the rest of the motoring press says about it. I'm guessing they'll fluff it up as the best in class..... but I simply cannot see it. It doesn't trump any of the major competition, some of which has been on the market for years already.  Traverse, Pathfinder, Explorer, Durango, Highlander, all have vastly superior interiors...   The $46k spent on the Pilot Elite that I drove would buy you a lot of Explorer.... but the interior felt like a base CR-V...... it actually felt worse than my 2004 CR-V. 

 

Something serious is brewing at Honda, and I don't know how much longer their reputation will sustain them without outside help.

Drew it all comes down to development money. Honda just does not have the ability to do all the do on their own anymore and they are in need of a dance partner that can work with them but not expect to merge with them. GM is the perfect partner in that they are all about saving money but yet making better systems for cars. They really do not want to merge with Honda but they could make a good working relationship happen.

I read a while back the major players that could do it all yet were Toyota, GM, Ford, Benz, VW. Just about everyone else needs to find a partner. Even these companies are willing to work with others to save cost as new systems like transmission, engines and platforms are so expensive today. Also the hybrid and EV technology has little profit but needs to continue to develop. The large companies can save a lot on this and help some of the smaller companies.

But companies like Honda, Hyundai, BMW and others while strong independent companies they still will need help in the future working with others while remaining strong enough to remain independent.

Other players like FCA, Mitsubishi, Mazda and others are prime for take over but right now most companies are putting the money back into themselves now and are not wanting to expand.

Mazda is on the line between take over material or remaining independent. They have gained strength in my eyes and have move closer to do like Honda and remain independent but working with another partner. Just not sure who at this point. Ford would be natural but I am not sure Ford wants them again. Thing ended on a sour note there.

Honda and GM have much in common and have respect for each other. I could see this deal growing into the future.

[daves87rs]

Have to say, there are some things Honda does well...might work well in our favor. We will have to see though.....

[hyperv6]

Keep in mind this would be much like the Ford deal on the transmissions where most of the shared technology would remain buried in the vehicles to the point few will know or notice. It is more about sharing cost and remaining independent.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

I like Mazda's 4-cylinders and the efficiency of their automatics seems good.  Aside from that, I don't see any benefit to GM for the partnership.

 

I am beginning to wonder about Honda's health. I drove the new Pilot twice and the new RLX Hybrid.   There are some serious deficiencies in both of these products that point to severe cost cutting.

 

The Pilot is a particular head-scratcher to me, and it will be interesting to see what the rest of the motoring press says about it. I'm guessing they'll fluff it up as the best in class..... but I simply cannot see it. It doesn't trump any of the major competition, some of which has been on the market for years already.  Traverse, Pathfinder, Explorer, Durango, Highlander, all have vastly superior interiors...   The $46k spent on the Pilot Elite that I drove would buy you a lot of Explorer.... but the interior felt like a base CR-V...... it actually felt worse than my 2004 CR-V. 

 

Something serious is brewing at Honda, and I don't know how much longer their reputation will sustain them without outside help.

Drew it all comes down to development money. Honda just does not have the ability to do all the do on their own anymore and they are in need of a dance partner that can work with them but not expect to merge with them. GM is the perfect partner in that they are all about saving money but yet making better systems for cars. They really do not want to merge with Honda but they could make a good working relationship happen.

I read a while back the major players that could do it all yet were Toyota, GM, Ford, Benz, VW. Just about everyone else needs to find a partner. Even these companies are willing to work with others to save cost as new systems like transmission, engines and platforms are so expensive today. Also the hybrid and EV technology has little profit but needs to continue to develop. The large companies can save a lot on this and help some of the smaller companies.

But companies like Honda, Hyundai, BMW and others while strong independent companies they still will need help in the future working with others while remaining strong enough to remain independent.

Other players like FCA, Mitsubishi, Mazda and others are prime for take over but right now most companies are putting the money back into themselves now and are not wanting to expand.

Mazda is on the line between take over material or remaining independent. They have gained strength in my eyes and have move closer to do like Honda and remain independent but working with another partner. Just not sure who at this point. Ford would be natural but I am not sure Ford wants them again. Thing ended on a sour note there.

Honda and GM have much in common and have respect for each other. I could see this deal growing into the future.

 

 

 

What was clear to me after driving the Pilot and RLX was that Honda Motor Company takes the "Motor" part of their name most seriously, but then gives up after that.  That may be where Honda can work a partnership..... get someone else to chip in for development costs in the powertrain and then Honda can put more development into the interiors.

[riviera74]

One Q: What does Honda have to offer that GM actually needs right now?  30-35 years ago, the answer would be dead simple: experience making small cars.  GM no longer needs that.  Remember that Honda itself is more engine maker than car company.  Honda makes a LOT of different types of things.  They may need a partner, but I am not sure what GM needs from them.

[Drew Dowdell]

One Q: What does Honda have to offer that GM actually needs right now?  30-35 years ago, the answer would be dead simple: experience making small cars.  GM no longer needs that.  Remember that Honda itself is more engine maker than car company.  Honda makes a LOT of different types of things.  They may need a partner, but I am not sure what GM needs from them.

 

It's not what GM needs right now, but what GM might need in the future.  Co-developing small engines and CVTs, and working together on battery tech would be good places to start for both companies. 

 

It's more about sharing costs of future development rather than sharing current technology.

[hyperv6]

One Q: What does Honda have to offer that GM actually needs right now?  30-35 years ago, the answer would be dead simple: experience making small cars.  GM no longer needs that.  Remember that Honda itself is more engine maker than car company.  Honda makes a LOT of different types of things.  They may need a partner, but I am not sure what GM needs from them.

What GM needs is sharing of cost just as Honda. This may be some technology sharing in Hydrogen but if they choose to do a transmission or other sub system together they will share the cost.

For the most part the Ford/GM deal on transmissions was mostly GM doing the work and Ford paying their share and adding only their own tuning and bits they needed. Much like the BMW/GM transmission deal. GM got pretty much a free transmission for their own use with letting BMW use it for 2 years before Cadillac and Chevy.

I expect they will share in other areas some things but for the most part it will mostly comedown to cost savings for both on things the average buyer will never know was worked on by either company.

[hyperv6]

I like Mazda's 4-cylinders and the efficiency of their automatics seems good.  Aside from that, I don't see any benefit to GM for the partnership.

 

I am beginning to wonder about Honda's health. I drove the new Pilot twice and the new RLX Hybrid.   There are some serious deficiencies in both of these products that point to severe cost cutting.

 

The Pilot is a particular head-scratcher to me, and it will be interesting to see what the rest of the motoring press says about it. I'm guessing they'll fluff it up as the best in class..... but I simply cannot see it. It doesn't trump any of the major competition, some of which has been on the market for years already.  Traverse, Pathfinder, Explorer, Durango, Highlander, all have vastly superior interiors...   The $46k spent on the Pilot Elite that I drove would buy you a lot of Explorer.... but the interior felt like a base CR-V...... it actually felt worse than my 2004 CR-V. 

 

Something serious is brewing at Honda, and I don't know how much longer their reputation will sustain them without outside help.

Drew it all comes down to development money. Honda just does not have the ability to do all the do on their own anymore and they are in need of a dance partner that can work with them but not expect to merge with them. GM is the perfect partner in that they are all about saving money but yet making better systems for cars. They really do not want to merge with Honda but they could make a good working relationship happen.

I read a while back the major players that could do it all yet were Toyota, GM, Ford, Benz, VW. Just about everyone else needs to find a partner. Even these companies are willing to work with others to save cost as new systems like transmission, engines and platforms are so expensive today. Also the hybrid and EV technology has little profit but needs to continue to develop. The large companies can save a lot on this and help some of the smaller companies.

But companies like Honda, Hyundai, BMW and others while strong independent companies they still will need help in the future working with others while remaining strong enough to remain independent.

Other players like FCA, Mitsubishi, Mazda and others are prime for take over but right now most companies are putting the money back into themselves now and are not wanting to expand.

Mazda is on the line between take over material or remaining independent. They have gained strength in my eyes and have move closer to do like Honda and remain independent but working with another partner. Just not sure who at this point. Ford would be natural but I am not sure Ford wants them again. Thing ended on a sour note there.

Honda and GM have much in common and have respect for each other. I could see this deal growing into the future.

 

 

What was clear to me after driving the Pilot and RLX was that Honda Motor Company takes the "Motor" part of their name most seriously, but then gives up after that.  That may be where Honda can work a partnership..... get someone else to chip in for development costs in the powertrain and then Honda can put more development into the interiors.

Honda has always built to their own drummer. They really have had many quirky things over the years and some really down right cheap things. Their trucks interior was really at best was Colorado level trim with the rubber floor.

But that is kind of what they do best is odd and different. They are the less odd Saab of Japan.

Either way the odd stuff should not be an issue for GM as those parts will still be their deal. Most of the things shared will be technology and inter systems in the vehicles.