Went to see this today

[Camino LS6]

...and it's good, even very good.

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/3218185531.html

But, perhaps, not quite so good as the mileage and photos might indicate.

[GMTruckGuy74]

I love the color!! So, are you really interested or were you just checking it out for fun?

[Camino LS6]

I was very interested when I went, and only slightly less so now.

Unfortunately, the seller is starting to "fix" the car, and well, let's just say that I wish he hadn't.

[ocnblu]

Tell us more, Camino.

EDIT: Oh jeez, is he pulling the motor? Modifying it?

Maybe you should have taken the asking price in cash with you, negotiated him down a bit, and trailered it home to a safe place... yer barn.

Edited September 3, 2012 by ocnblu

[Camino LS6]

Tell us more, Camino.

EDIT: Oh jeez, is he pulling the motor? Modifying it?

Maybe you should have taken the asking price in cash with you, negotiated him down a bit, and trailered it home to a safe place... yer barn.

Well, he has removed the radiator, shroud, valve covers, A/C compressor, brackets and pulleys, cut the A/C lines, and removed the bolts from the intake. Someone has him thinking that he should yank the 400 and put in a 350...

I had my cash in my pocket, but left it there.

Not sure how I feel about it at this point.

Oh, and that pushrod sure is bent! Getting it out could be interesting.

[ocnblu]

Oh man, all he's doing is destroying the value of the car. There is still time to save it though, man. Can't a/c lines be ordered through somebody like NAPA? Then you might also do a 134 retrofit.

Edited September 3, 2012 by ocnblu

[Camino LS6]

Oh man, all he's doing is destroying the value of the car. There is still time to save it though, man. Can't a/c lines be ordered through somebody like NAPA?

Maybe.

And there are places that can make them to order - but that's a new hassle that need not have been.

I wish he hadn't touched it, and just listed it for sale right away.

He has also replaced the gas tank (no rust, just dirty - don't know why he did that). And the fuel pump (new line with a big old generic fitting where it joins the old.

[ocnblu]

He sounds like a dangerous tinkerer. You know the type. If he keeps it up, he will have nothing. If you want to save it and do right by it, call him and issue a "cease and desist"!

[Camino LS6]

I'm thinking it over.

[Camino LS6]

This car is a "LuxuryLemans" sub model. But it has vinyl interior (very close to pristine), only has a 2bbl carb, and has single exhaust.

Could have been better optioned, but the condition is quite good overall.

I found a "YH" code on the block (along with some numbers I didn't manage to memorize).

Engine compartment would be a project to sort out and make right.

[balthazar]

YH is all you need. Assuming its the original 400, that is indeed the 2bbl, 190-hp (moan) 400.

Replacing a 400 with a 350 doesn't makes sense on Mars, never mind Earth.

[Camino LS6]

So, opinions?

[ocnblu]

I thought fender skirts were mandatory on Luxury LeMans models, but I see this one has full openings with moldings. I prefer the full openings, just curious what PHS might have to say... do you have the VIN? Can they shed some insight?

The car, in the photos, looks very good. How's the corners of the vinyl top? See any bubbles?

Morrokide was the standard upholstery material.

A 400 2bbl is still a 400... by 1974 it could very well have been a 350, so you're a bit ahead of the game there, imo.

The emissions sticker on the rad support, does it ID the engine as a 400?

400 2 bbl was the standard engine on Grand Ams that year. Not sure if LL was the same, or if a 350 was base. The car you're looking at appears to be Honduras Maroon (?)

WOW. 210.9" long, 77.7" wide!

A photo in the '76 brochure shows a Grand Lemans coupe without skirts, so it could have been that way in '74 also. By '76, a stinkin' (by comparison, it was a good motor in a C-10) Chevy 250 six was standard in the Grand LeMans.

Edited September 4, 2012 by ocnblu

[Camino LS6]

I thought fender skirts were mandatory on Luxury Lemans models, but I see this one has full openings with moldings. I prefer the full openings, just curious what PHS might have to say... do you have the VIN? Can they shed some insight?

The car, in the photos, looks very good. How's the corners of the vinyl top? See any bubbles?

I thought so too, and am also glad it doesn't have them. The Luxury Lemans I remember all did (and were more heavily-optioned). Vinyl top is near perfect, I found two small spots with an odd lump underneath - but no crunchy rust areas. But this car should never be left out in the rain (which it was). Not rot anywhere that I could find, but preventative work should be done under the doors and under all of the lower trim. The right front lower trim is held on with screws, and I suspect that that fender has had some paintwork at one time.

[Camino LS6]

Meant to look at the emissions sticker, but it slipped my mind (I was being rained on).

[balthazar]

I believe that this is a LeMans Sport. The Lux LeMans had a 'targa' style vinyl top, this one has a full top. The skirts support this ID, too.

http://www.lov2xlr8....pt/bilder/7.jpg

Brochure page says the Lux has a fold-down armrest on a bench seat, buckets were optional on the Sport.

• • •

350 was standard, so the 400 is one option. Vinyl roof (still called 'Cordova in '74?) and the formal quarter windows are another (vs the Colonnade's big quarter glass).

EDIT :: I think I can make out the "Luxury LeMans" script on the glove box tho. Strange...

[Camino LS6]

This has Luxury Lemans badging on the fenders and the trim at the base of the trunklid at the rear bumper.

[Camino LS6]

I was very surprised to see that badging too - I went expecting a Lemans rather than a Luxury Lemans.

[ocnblu]

I don't think it has been tampered with much. Morrokide vinyl was an option that year, per Balthy's link, and buckets with console likely were as well.

And I believe by this time fender skirts were optional. Balthy's link shows the proper door trim panels for a LL, did the car have pull straps and a wide swatch of woodgrain? Because I think a base LeMans would have a different door trim panel.

Edited September 4, 2012 by ocnblu

[Camino LS6]

There really isn't much evidence of any tampering in its past.

[Camino LS6]

Thanks for doing the research guys, going to do some of my own after I run out for a snack.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Camino LS6

[ocnblu]

No. The tampering is going on right now. Sigh.

[balthazar]

Well, the answer is simple- it's coded in the VIN.

LeMans : 2AD

LeMans Sport : 2AF

Lux LeMans : 2AG

Or, it would also be on the data plate : D37 / F37 / G37

[Camino LS6]

Very cool!

Thanks Balthazar!

[Camino LS6]

Here's a pic of what's left of a Luxury Lemans without the skirts.

You can also see the trim on the bottom edges of the trunklid that other Lemans variants didn't get.

They also have a different grille than the standard Lemans.

[balthazar]

Mmmmmm... '64 Star Chief ! '64 Catalina Sport Coupe!

That must be Pontiac Heaven out in AZ.

[Camino LS6]

Frank's Pontiac Parts

[Camino LS6]

All of this reminds me of that '73 GTO I posted a few months back - wish it was available now!

[Camino LS6]

Ocn: It has the woodgrain panels.

It's an LL

[balthazar]

Either way, it's great it doesn't have frickin skirts- that body doesn't wear them well.

In a related tangent, a buddy gave me a pair of steel aftermarket Foxcraft fender skirts, in excellent shape.

After a bit of digging, I found out they were for '68-69 Torino, the last time Foxcraft offered them for that car.

Even tho the condition is great, NO ONE is going to want them, and I believe they truly are worthless.

[Camino LS6]

That would be the definition of a limited market, Balthy!

[daves87rs]

Something just says no. Not so sure about the guy....

[Camino LS6]

Meanwhile, I really don't know what to do about this car.

I'd hate to leave it to its fate, but it isn't exactly what I expected it to be.

[Camino LS6]

Then there is the transportation issue, 1.5 hours away.

Could get expensive.

[balthazar]

Oi, the excuses....

[Camino LS6]

Just thinking out loud here.

[balthazar]

Yes, but this is the usual pattern of your thinking out loud.

If you LIKE the damned thing, go BUY the damned thing!

[Camino LS6]

Yeah, yeah

[A Horse With No Name]

What happened to the 64 Camino?

[Camino LS6]

What happened to the 64 Camino?

I'm avoiding it on purpose.

[z28luvr01]

Sometimes you just have to go with your gut. if you're mainly scoping this out so that if you do buy it you're too strapped to get the Camino, it's probably not a good idea no matter what condition it's in or what its fate will be.

If the Camino is what you really want, why buy anything else? You have assets you've been willing to unload/trade for a while. Keep the guy on the line and try to work something out.

[A Horse With No Name]

Why are you avoiding the 64? Much higher value, IMHO done than your other projects...and would be far cooler.

You ought to go buy THAT and save it from getting a big block and wheel tubs, or being turned into a race car, or sitting in someone else s barn for the next twenty years.

[Camino LS6]

I like the Camino, but it would be yet another long-term project and I don't need another one of those just now.

I'm looking for something that can be up and going in short order and give me the flexibility to start moving other stuff right away.

This Pontiac could be that, but I am still considering other options.

[GMTruckGuy74]

This Pontiac could be that, but I am still considering other options.

You just had to know someone was going to post that here!!

[A Horse With No Name]

I like the Camino, but it would be yet another long-term project and I don't need another one of those just now.

I'm looking for something that can be up and going in short order and give me the flexibility to start moving other stuff right away.

This Pontiac could be that, but I am still considering other options.

So finish the mother truck, get the 64, and crap can your other long term projects.

Cars will run on electric, hydrogen, and Red bull by the time that Jag goes on the road again....

[Camino LS6]

The jag is of no consequence one way or the other (nor is any Honda, Roger!).

Mothertruck has to get done no matter what else I get into. In fact, buying something that will allow me to sell the Tahoe will move that project forward.

After all of my hunting, looking, and debating, I may go for a more boring solution that lets me move forward.

I need to be making progress even more than I need a cool project.

[Robert Hall]

This Pontiac could be that, but I am still considering other options.

You just had to know someone was going to post that here!!

Not sure if the Accord would work well w/ a snowplow on the front..isn't Camino looking for a plow truck for the winter?

[Z-06]

VTECH Kicketh Yo

[Camino LS6]

VTECH Kicketh Yo

[Robert Hall]

A Ridgeline seems like a good compromise--could make a plow truck, but it also has the car/truck style and appeal of an El Camino...

Edited September 5, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar