ATS Results are in and They are Good Very Good!

[hyperv6]

Autoweek has published the first ATS full test and from what they find they feel it is world class and has what it takes to compete.

I have always found Autoweeks reviews generally the most balanced and fair in the media market [not counting those here]. They have tested all three engines in the RWD model and they love the car. In all areas it is either best in class or as good. Here are some of the highlights.

Interior is A4 matches build quality and is better than the # series.

The ATS is lightest in class by 113 pounds and the weight loss is not due to anything that will contribute to noise or harshness. In other words Cadillac did not take the easy way out.

Brakes best in class.

Ride Handling and Balanced are among the best in class magnetic shocks or not.

V6 strong meatiiest and smooth

2.0 Turbo is strong linear quiet NHV

2.5 has more NHV than the 2.0 Trubo but is better than the C class, Not rough and is a good honest not frilly car. The 2.5 might be the best bargin of the bunch.

V series almost certain to not be a V8.

Cadillac is not working on more new models now than at any point in their history. Engineers are no longer marginalized.

Sounds as if the coupe is still game on.

Suspension will use same settings world wide.

AWD was not tested but will be available in August.

6 speed tranny was good and only had a small hic up but they thought the less gears than the others made it less busy. Manual shifter was not the best but good enough to be in the mix.

The harshest words were for the thick A pillars and mirrors for blind spots but they said that is just part of todays cars and really made just a passing comment.

The ATS is light agile and fun and Cadillac has met their objectives.

So all those who had little faith you can rest at ease and know that the CTS and Camaro look to have good futures based on this first Alpha.

[A Horse With No Name]

Sounds like some of the same majic I found when I drove the Verano is present in the Caddy as well.

Glad they liked the brakes, as I felt that was really a strong point again of the Verano also.

GM seems to be doing just kick A$$ quality control and design work on interiors lately...I love how well assembled modern GM cars are on the inside. I'm especially grateful to see a quality automotive publication point this out...for awhile, I thought it was just me.

Now if GM can just push this same magic into the next Camaro, we may see another GM car in my driveway. GLAD TO SEE GM doing this well with their product....

[hyperv6]

This is an example of what Bob Lutz did at GM. He cut the BS out and told the engineers and MFG to built the cars the way they need to be built and not wait for someone to tell them to do it that way. In the past no one was given the power to fix things unless told.

GM has had the people to build cars like this but they were never told to do it and would get in trouble if they made changes on their own. Mark has carried this on and now has the funding to do more. The only thing GM is hurting on yet is time. It takes time and man power to get product out and even working as hard as they are it will take some more time to see all the changes.

I like how they stated that Cadillac is now working on more models than at any point in their history. If they do as they did with the ATS we may see an amazing change with Cadillac in the public eye.

[hyperv6]

I forgot the best line in the story.

Page 36 first paragraph.

"Measured by "light, Nimble, fun" and balance and inherent goodness, the ATS belongs in the same sentence as the BMW 3 series.

[ZL-1]

Wasn't the issue with the coupe all about positioning, i.e. as an ATS Coupe, a CTS Coupe or someting in the middle (like the Mercedes CLK was before it transformed into the E-Class Coupe)?

The rest of the news is great news; GM/Cadillac needs to shout out really loud that the ATS has arrived (and it absolutely has to offer a diesel engine for Europe).

[hyperv6]

The coupe from what I heard never really was canceled. From what little GM has said the coupe will just come later and the timing looks to take place when the CTS coupe may leave for awhile.

The marketing guy from Cadillac stated that Cadillac was really hurting in this segment. He also stated what I have said for a long time when many pissed and moaned for a flagship. He stated that all these luxury lines were built from the bottom up and in the case of BMW the 3 series built todays BMW to be what it is. You have to earn new and younger owners with the the entry level cars and let them move up. This has been what I have said for as long time. People may give you a try at $40K but not at $100K.

[A Horse With No Name]

I like the philosophy of winning buyers at the lower level, it makes a lot of sense....and then moving them up....

[regfootball]

agree. there is no point to doing a 90k cadillac that few will buy unless people are clamoring for it. there is pent up demand for the DTS/XTS, that will sell also.

I think the next 10 years the German's elaborate top end models will get clipped....the world economy and climate folks will make sure to that. Why do you think BMW and merc are investing more in front drive $h!boxes?

[ZL-1]

The coupe from what I heard never really was canceled. From what little GM has said the coupe will just come later and the timing looks to take place when the CTS coupe may leave for awhile.

So, that's 2 coupes: ATS and NG-CTS? Interesting!

[balthazar]

The "moving-up" theory is just that. No one comes into, for EX, BMW on the 3, then moves thru the 5 to the 7. I mean, if you like the 3- enough to purchase one, why would you care if there was a 7-series - what does that have to do with the 3-series? BMW's owner loyalty is only about 30%. They bring in new buyers, but don't retain them or move them up.

[PurdueGuy]

The "moving-up" theory is just that. No one comes into, for EX, BMW on the 3, then moves thru the 5 to the 7. I mean, if you like the 3- enough to purchase one, why would you care if there was a 7-series - what does that have to do with the 3-series? BMW's owner loyalty is only about 30%. They bring in new buyers, but don't retain them or move them up.

But would the buyer of the 7-series make that purchase without knowing someone who had a good experience with a 3 or 5 series? I think you may be right about the moving-up theory not really working, at least now how you stated, but I do think a brand can better sell at a price point if they've built a good reputation at a lower but adjacent price point already. For example, a company that's built a good reputation selling $30-40k cars can probably somewhat easily sell a new product (or even a higher optioned product) in the $40-50k range, but they won't do nearly as well to go from selling $30-40k cars to offering a $50-60k car. Even tougher if they tried to jump to $60-70k. Big jumps don't generally work.

[regfootball]

ATS first.

Then, CTS.

then the stage is set for the flagship.

[G. David Felt]

Sweet, so glad to hear the ATS is world class like we wanted and hoped for.

[hyperv6]

The coupe from what I heard never really was canceled. From what little GM has said the coupe will just come later and the timing looks to take place when the CTS coupe may leave for awhile.

So, that's 2 coupes: ATS and NG-CTS? Interesting!

I said the ATS coupe may appear once the CTS goes away for a while. Who knows if it will return or even when. None have been seen in testing yet.

The first Alpha coupe I expect will be the Camaro.

I expect the ATS V6 may dip into the low 14's high 13's in the 1/4 mile and the Turbo will be very similar. To compare the much heavier Camaro with the same 3.6 will do 14.3 with the manual. I would assume the ATS should better that even with the Auto.

Edited July 20, 2012 by hyperv6

[Robert Hall]

The new ATS around the world driving video was pretty cool..

[hyperv6]

The "moving-up" theory is just that. No one comes into, for EX, BMW on the 3, then moves thru the 5 to the 7. I mean, if you like the 3- enough to purchase one, why would you care if there was a 7-series - what does that have to do with the 3-series? BMW's owner loyalty is only about 30%. They bring in new buyers, but don't retain them or move them up.

You can explain around it but the modern BMW line was built on the back of the 3 Series and as the owner get older and more money they moved to the 5 and 7 Series. The history from the 70's up shows the path of growth.

BMW must have retains a good number of people as they are not selling less cars each year and have been keeping profitiable.

When you are poor you buy a 3 series and when you finally make it you buy a 5, 7 or even something better.

We also have seen Cadillac try to sell the big dollar car with no love for the line and we know where that went. You have to earn the public trust and then you can enhance your image. Once you do that then it opens the door for a flagship. If you can make a $40,000 car worth a damn then why should someone trust you with $80-100L?

Either way GM is doing it the right way and has the cart behind the horse for once.

[G. David Felt]

The "moving-up" theory is just that. No one comes into, for EX, BMW on the 3, then moves thru the 5 to the 7. I mean, if you like the 3- enough to purchase one, why would you care if there was a 7-series - what does that have to do with the 3-series? BMW's owner loyalty is only about 30%. They bring in new buyers, but don't retain them or move them up.

You can explain around it but the modern BMW line was built on the back of the 3 Series and as the owner get older and more money they moved to the 5 and 7 Series. The history from the 70's up shows the path of growth.

BMW must have retains a good number of people as they are not selling less cars each year and have been keeping profitiable.

When you are poor you buy a 3 series and when you finally make it you buy a 5, 7 or even something better.

We also have seen Cadillac try to sell the big dollar car with no love for the line and we know where that went. You have to earn the public trust and then you can enhance your image. Once you do that then it opens the door for a flagship. If you can make a $40,000 car worth a damn then why should someone trust you with $80-100L?

Either way GM is doing it the right way and has the cart behind the horse for once.

+1 I totally agree!

[A Horse With No Name]

I just wish I were poor enough for a new BMW 3 series....

Cause then I could go buy a CTS!

[hyperv6]

We all need to keep in mind that we are talking in terms of the volume luxury market. This is where people often buy at the low end and work their way up as they progress in life.

Now this used to apply to other classes of cars but no longer. Say in the value brands like Chevy people tend to buy for several reason. The type of car that fits them the best and the one they can best afford. At Chevy you don't expect all buyers to start at a Sonic and move to a Camaro.

Now in the Luxury class some start off at the low end say at BMW like a 3 Series and they move up as they increase income. The 3-5-7 are all sedans with an odd mix of coupes and generally offer just more of the same as you move up and increases in power and luxury.

So the build from the bottom up is what works in this class but I would not ever expect or want to see Chevy do similar. Chevy needs to be all things to all people and present it at a good value.

This is where Buick is stuck. The room between Chevy and Cadillac is not great and it leaves Buick little room to operate. As Cadillac moves up the scale with their new models it will give Buick more room to operate. But It concerns me that cars like the Impala LTZ will be $40,000. This steps on the toes of the Lacrosse that is not ready to move up. almost think Buick needs to look to create a new nich for themselves and offer cars that sets them better appart from a high end Chevy and a lower Cadillac. If their price is similar they need to make things available you can not get on any Chevy.

Until there is a bigger gap for Buick it will be difficult for them. This is why vehicles like the Enclave do so well as they are not like anything Cadillac offers and it is much nicer than anything Chevy sells.

Times and markets are just much more complex than the Sloan era.

Either way Cadillac is doing it right.

[frogger]

I dunno if I had a 328, I would much rather move up to an M3 than the less nimble luxury cars.

[balthazar]

ATS is looking pretty formidable overall. Looking forward to Cadillac stealing marketshare in this segment (as it did with the CTS).

[hyperv6]

It looks like they finally have the hardware and now it is just up to marketing to sell it. The next punch to the market will be the new improved CTS. I expect no less from the CTS.

GM is on a roll as the press so far likes nearly every new car they have built including the Spark, XTS and Metro. The only tepid reviews were the Eco Malibu and that will change once the LT and LTZ hit the market.

I want to see what they think of the new Impala. The preview from Motor Trend was promising.

[A Horse With No Name]

New Impala should really win some people over, I think.

I really miss being a kid in the 1970's when owning an Impala was a rite of passage into middle class suburbia....and our neighbors had tons of them....

[Drew Dowdell]

I dunno if I had a 328, I would much rather move up to an M3 than the less nimble luxury cars.

You say that now, but when you're 70 with grandkids...

[hyperv6]

New Impala should really win some people over, I think.

I really miss being a kid in the 1970's when owning an Impala was a rite of passage into middle class suburbia....and our neighbors had tons of them....

The new passage has been handed to the Malibu as GM has raised the price and lowered volume expectations of the Impala. Sorry to say but the rite of passage has been handed to the mid size group.

[Drew Dowdell]

Well... equinox or traverse...

[ocnblu]

New Impala will once again be aspirational, something it has not been since at least 1996.

[balthazar]

New Impala will once again be aspirational, something it has not been since at least 1996 1966.

[ocnblu]

Well, the Super Sport in 1996 was a B-Body zenith not seen in many a year before it. And I like a few Impalas post-'66, for example, the '67 that inspires the '14, and stars in Supernatural with two cute guys.

[smk4565]

I dunno if I had a 328, I would much rather move up to an M3 than the less nimble luxury cars.

True dat. 3-series lovers aren't going to go for a personal limo like the 7-series, they may go for a 5-series, but I think most would want a faster 3, like a 335i sport or M3.

I think there should be an ATS coupe. Mercedes makes coupes on C, E and S class (CL for now) and 2 roadsters plus the SLS AMG in coupe and convertible. If they can make six 2-door cars, I am sure Cadillac can find room for two.

[smk4565]

I dunno if I had a 328, I would much rather move up to an M3 than the less nimble luxury cars.

You say that now, but when you're 70 with grandkids...

But a 60-something probably isn't buying a 3-series. One might buy a 3-series then 25 years later get a 7-series, but my guess a lot don't go from one to the other quickly.

[smk4565]

New Impala will once again be aspirational, something it has not been since at least 1996.

I don't think it is that aspirational, no more than a Taurus or Avalon is. The Impala is much better than the Malibu though, the Malibu reviews are fairly weak and compared to the 2013 Fusion, the Malibu is a dud. Plus with a new Altima and Camry, and a strong Sonata and Optima on sale, the Malibu I think is in trouble.

[Drew Dowdell]

Smk, you don't know how much in agreement we are right now, but you will on Wednesday.

[hyperv6]

Well... equinox or traverse...

We are speaking cars not Crossovers. Hard to compare something that was not around back then.

I am far from writing the Malibu off yet as we have yet to see anything but the Eco yet tested. I did read a review on the LTZ and they seem to like the many changes it brings in performance and trim inside and out. Bigger wheels, more power, better interior and no battery to lug around with an under powered 4.

I also expect Chevy to be fast with changes if needed to make the car right.

[hyperv6]

Anyone take note of the statment from Cadillac that they will work to be number one in the USA. This is smart and show confidence and with the ATS now out it also shows they really mean what they say.

First I would want all my divisions goals to be number one as that is the only way to do buisness. Who goes in wanting to be #2 or 2?

Second it is a attainable goal with the new products they have coming and their comitment to building class leading cars as shown my the ATS. To me the ATS is the first fully post Chapter 11 car and it shows that the changes have taken within GM.

Third I like how they stated there is no time table. This is an honest statment as who could predict that? The keys are product accpetance, Proper marketing and the market. The market is always fluid and who knows what will happen to what product or MFG. One false unintended acceleration case and it can hurt a MFG for years as Audi already knows.

To me the market is like racing and if you run in the top 4 every week in time you will start winning and once you win you keep moving up. Right now I see Cadillac now starting to run in the top 5 and with all the new products that will be coming they will be taking some wins finally.

As for others like Lincoln they have yet to really make a move to even be in the race. You can't keep rebading Fords and then expect to be taken as a winner. Cadillac may share the Alpha with the Camaro but it was engineered as a Cadillac first. I see this as a winning way as it is best to build it right and pass it down not up.

[balthazar]

Saw the Cadillac release, not happy. Aiming to be #1 in volume is a mistake, esp at this stage.

Aim to be #1 in aspiration, in quality, in performance, in profit...; volume will follow that. The PR doesn't read that way to me.

[smk4565]

I am far from writing the Malibu off yet as we have yet to see anything but the Eco yet tested. I did read a review on the LTZ and they seem to like the many changes it brings in performance and trim inside and out. Bigger wheels, more power, better interior and no battery to lug around with an under powered 4.

Malibu Eco is not cheap, some of the hybrids are similar in price, and the base Altima has better mileage anyway if you want to live with that CVT, which most of these buyers won't know what that is anyway, they will just read the mpg label. The Malibu LTZ with a 2.0T may solve some problems of the Malibu Eco, but the LTZ will likely top $30k and will not be a lot of volume. The base Malibu and Eco are the trims that produce volume. I really like the new Fusion, still like the Optima and Sonata, and the new Altima has a rather nice interior. Plus the Accord gets redone soon too, and despite them being boring or maybe not even that good, people still buy Camrys and Accords on name alone. GM undershot on the Malibu.

Back to the ATS, I don't think they undershot on it, from early reports it seems they at least took most of the necessary steps. But this is Mercedes engineering and safety, Audi interiors, and BMW braking/steering/handling they are going after. Not to mention the reputation of those 3 brands. I think Cadillac can get in the game, but I don't know if they have the big guns to prevail here.

[smk4565]

Saw the Cadillac release, not happy. Aiming to be #1 in volume is a mistake, esp at this stage.

Aim to be #1 in aspiration, in quality, in performance, in profit...; volume will follow that. The PR doesn't read that way to me.

Agreed, but I think they want the volume to come by way of the ATS, CTS, SRX, XTS, Escalade and a future Volt variant and flagship sedan. I don't get the feeling that volume will come from $25,000 cars with Cadillac badges just for the sake of volume. I think they want volume from cars at $40,000 and up.

At the same time, all these brands want to be #1, Lexus says they will be, Audi wants to be the global #1, etc. But Mercedes has the volume, the profit, the aspiration, the quality, the owner loyalty, etc. They are just better than all these other brands. It is almost like another amusement park saying they want to be #1 and dethrone Disney World, they can dream all they want, but it just isn't going to happen.

Smk, you don't know how much in agreement we are right now, but you will on Wednesday.

Well, it is good for us to agree a few days a year at least, lol.

[regfootball]

Chevy's math = Impala volume + Malibu volume > Fusion + Taurus volume.

Malibu might only move 150,000 units, but the Impala may move just as many.

Fusion could move 250k units now with the incentivized leases and prices, but not on the new model. Taurus sales will never get much over 50-60k. Impala + LaCrosse + XTS sales will be way over Taurus + MKS sales.

I'll be honest, on the spec sheet the Malibu looks to have some challenges but in person it's impressive, barring one major flaw....rear seat / foot space is an embarassment. Which, the Impala takes care of. I think it's going to be a car you'll have to drive instead of just internet shop. It looks dynamic in person.....huge overhangs withstanding. The rear end is a knockout and totally distinctive from the Impala.

The new Fusion, like the new twice recalled Escape, may be over the top and too weird for some. The Impala and Malibu score big in the looks department. Chevy is going to ride this train. Every chevy sedan product is solid up and down the line now. It's time frickin burn up the charts.

The new CVT in the Altima is what gets the 38mpg. I like CVT's but admit they are not all there yet. And most people don't drive at 65mph in cruise making no stops. It was probably easy to program the CVT to take advantage of the epa test. The exterior of the new Altima is dull. The interior is nice, but not game changing.

If Chevy can match the Sonata's mpg ratings I think it will be fine. I expect the car to get decent mpg's overall. What the Altima gets in the real world will be dependent on how it's driven. Leadfoot a CVT and the mileage drops. I can take my Kizashis out and do things like a 40 mpg loops at avg 60 mph with very few stops and pull 37 mpg overall but if i start hitting major stop and go I am down to 25-27. One time i rented the 2010 Altima and put 1000 miles on it and only got like 27 mpg. My buddy has gotten 30-32 highway mostly on his Malibu.

Edited July 22, 2012 by regfootball

[A Horse With No Name]

New Impala will once again be aspirational, something it has not been since at least 1996 1966.

I was thinking the same thing, sir...

[A Horse With No Name]

I agree reg, the Altima is boring....

And I think the Malibu is going to do okay, I am with you on this as well, reg...

[smk4565]

To Reg's point on sales, they may sell a lot of Malibus, but I suspect 40% of them will be to rental companies, while the Fusion is going to have people paying sticker. Impala sales will drop considerably from where they are now, but that is a good thing, because I don't think they sold a retail Impala in the past 4 years. I think this new Impala will price around $28k base and ride up to near $40k. I think it will sell more in the 60,000 per year realm, and take some sales from the LaCrosse. I actually wouldn't be surprised if the Impala starts as high as $29,875.

[regfootball]

believe or not, the Impala was in many chevy stores selling more Impalas at retail than Malibus. The older customers liked the extra headroom and cabin space and more windows that the Malibu did not have. If anything, as much as the Impala has been fleet, the Malibu was too.

Current Fusion has been propped up since the last redo with cheap leases and tons of incentives. It became the defacto cheap large car for Ford and much of the domestic market. Ford whored them out. Ford is out for profit now on the new model. And rightfully so. Taurus sales may even go up a little in the meantime.

Most new Impalas should come in close to the basic LaCrosse in price. GM has priced the Malibu so in some trims with deals it will be closer to 20k than 25k. And it will be the ad leader for leases. Impalas have never leased well as late, so if anything the Malibu should do the bulk of the lease volume for Chevy.

What really is crazy is that Chrysler moves so many of the Avenger and 200's now. Hopefully the Malibu can get back some of those customers.

Chevy has it rolling now so when the SS sedan comes out, it's just a low volume car, a halo car, just to get PR and satisfy the whipping $h!ties crowd. Which is a tiny subset of the car public. It will cap Chevy's line perfectly.

Edited July 22, 2012 by regfootball

[A Horse With No Name]

200 is a good redesign...I actually like what they did.

Impala is actually a great car for what it is....for mom and op and three kids on their way to church or a basketball game in Kansas, it is one hell of a car.

...and even if they are going cheap, I still really like what Ford did with the fusion. Doubt I'll ever own one, though.

[regfootball]

i say this after having 5 fords and over 300k miles now, all pretty much trouble free.....

I do think there is a bit more zest in the GM stuff. More with a little fun and emotion.

that said, the new Fusion and obviously the focus are pretty cool. but there is a stale property that is present in most fords.

And Ford has pretty much abandoned the past. Not really a bad thing. But GM cars, you can photo a 13 Malibu and something from just about any GM generation and that flavor still is there. At least more so.

In fact, what is appealing to me about the 13 Malibu...although I liked the 08-12 exterior a lot, the 13 Malibu would look just fine in the company of cars like say, the early 2000 Bonnevilles and so on.

that's not really a knock as much as it is a complement that they could bring a GM look forward many years later.

[hyperv6]

I am far from writing the Malibu off yet as we have yet to see anything but the Eco yet tested. I did read a review on the LTZ and they seem to like the many changes it brings in performance and trim inside and out. Bigger wheels, more power, better interior and no battery to lug around with an under powered 4.

Malibu Eco is not cheap, some of the hybrids are similar in price, and the base Altima has better mileage anyway if you want to live with that CVT, which most of these buyers won't know what that is anyway, they will just read the mpg label. The Malibu LTZ with a 2.0T may solve some problems of the Malibu Eco, but the LTZ will likely top $30k and will not be a lot of volume. The base Malibu and Eco are the trims that produce volume. I really like the new Fusion, still like the Optima and Sonata, and the new Altima has a rather nice interior. Plus the Accord gets redone soon too, and despite them being boring or maybe not even that good, people still buy Camrys and Accords on name alone. GM undershot on the Malibu.

Back to the ATS, I don't think they undershot on it, from early reports it seems they at least took most of the necessary steps. But this is Mercedes engineering and safety, Audi interiors, and BMW braking/steering/handling they are going after. Not to mention the reputation of those 3 brands. I think Cadillac can get in the game, but I don't know if they have the big guns to prevail here.

The average price of a car is $30K now and most midsized cars today of any value will all top $30K it top trim. Hence that is why we have a Cruze and Sonic etc.

They did not uder shoot as the ATS has proven to have best inclass in most areas. For once GM did not try to match BMW or Benz. Again you need to do a little homework on just what is really going on inside GM today and understand the changes that are now in place. Lutz changed many things in GM and how many of the engineers and designers are no longer restricted to do as they are told. In other words if it need done then do it and don't wait to be told to do it. The ATS is the first full car to show this openess to enabled engineering. .

[smk4565]

They did not uder shoot as the ATS has proven to have best inclass in most areas. For once GM did not try to match BMW or Benz. Again you need to do a little homework on just what is really going on inside GM today and understand the changes that are now in place. Lutz changed many things in GM and how many of the engineers and designers are no longer restricted to do as they are told. In other words if it need done then do it and don't wait to be told to do it. The ATS is the first full car to show this openess to enabled engineering. .

What has the ATS proved, they haven't even sold one of them yet. BMW over the past 30 years has proved the 3-series is the best car in that class. They did a lot of things right with the ATS, but Lexus also had 2 tries with the IS, and aimed for the correct size, weight, horsepower, etc, and had a shelf full of JD Power awards saying how they build the most reliable car, and they failed. The ATS may be good, I'd like to drive one to find out, but the ATS doesn't have the badge of BMW or Mercedes. If you buy an ATS you still have to justify why you didn't buy a BMW or Benz instead.

[Drew Dowdell]

The IS had all that but one key ingredient missing..... passion. Say what you will about the ATS, it's not generic and there is no mistaking who makes it.

[ocnblu]

Well, if Cadillac builds this car as a lease car, it will match Benz and BMW. If it builds it as a car to purchase, it will match Cadillac. I would rather purchase a car than lease it, because after the free maintenance plan is overwith, which car would you rather pay to keep on the road?

[A Horse With No Name]

The Cadillac ...much better car to keep than the Lexus or BMW or Benz...Benz runs forever, but is pricey to maintain.

Cadillac FTW!