UAW wants Camaro

[99camaroSS]

OKLAHOMA CITY -- Union leaders at the idled General Motors Corp. plant would like to one day produce the next generation of the Chevrolet Camaro sports car.

GM stopped production of sport utility vehicles at the plant in February, putting 2,200 members of United Auto Workers Local 1999 out of work and forcing hundreds of layoffs at area suppliers.

The automaker unveiled a concept version of a 400-horsepower Camaro at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit in January. The 2002 model year was the last for the Camaro.

"We're still trying to get the Oklahoma City plant a product to build for the future," said Bob Alexander, president of UAW Local 1999. "With the quality of work that has come out of our plant, we're not giving up."

Last month, union officials, state Rep. Richard Morrissette, D-Oklahoma City, and former Democratic Gov. David Walters presented the local plant's strengths to GM executives in Detroit. The executives were noncommittal, so the group is lobbying to take the case directly to GM's board of directors.

But plant manager Tyree Minner said Thursday that he believes it's unlikely a new product ever will come to Oklahoma City. GM has offered buyout and early-retirement packages to hourly employees across the country, including those in Oklahoma City.

"I don't want them to hold out hope and pass up their chances for this package," Minner said.

The company is in preliminary discussions with one of its plants in Oshawa, Ontario, about the Camaro, although GM hasn't decided if it will build the car.

"It's a hot product," GM spokeswoman Nancy Sarpolis said. "A lot of people would like to see it built, and a lot of people would like to build it."

Before the Oklahoma City plant was idled, it produced extended versions of the Chevrolet TrailBlazers and GMC Envoys.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...336/1148/AUTO01

[the_yellow_dart]

I remember hearing something, can someone confirm or deny?

When GM canned the 4th gen and thus pulled out of the contract they had with the government of Quebec, they agreed that if the Camaro was ever brought back, it would be built in Quebec again.

[Hudson]

I remember hearing something, can someone confirm or deny?

When GM canned the 4th gen and thus pulled out of the contract they had with the government of Quebec, they agreed that if the Camaro was ever brought back, it would be built in Quebec again.

This story has been confused so many times. I believe it was related to the Ste. Therese plant in particular. Since the plant has been leveled, they don't have that to fall back on. And GM has no other assembly plants in Quebec.

The Camaro will be produced in Oshawa.

[91z4me]

The Camaro will be produced in Oshawa.

So does this mean Willmington didn't get the nod? That does not bode well for that plant. I can see GM building as many cars as it can in Oshawa, good quality and output with no health benefits to worry about. Also it makes sense under their new lean and green business model.

[Hudson]

So does this mean Willmington didn't get the nod?  That does not bode well for that plant.  I can see GM building as many cars as it can in Oshawa, good quality and output with no health benefits to worry about.  Also it makes sense under their new lean and green business model.

The products for Oshawa are just about set. It's only four vehicles at the moment.

[Croc]

I'd rather have a Canadian Camaro than a UAW-built Camaro. Oshawa has a lot better quality than just about any U.S. plant.

[91z4me]

The products for Oshawa are just about set. It's only four vehicles at the moment.

So the plan has not been fully approved, correct? Also you didn't say anything about Willmington is that subject off limits for now?

[turbo200]

So the plan has not been fully approved, correct?  Also you didn't say anything about Willmington is that subject off limits for now?

what could possibly happen with wilmington? it's future seems guaranteed as long as solstice/sky are in production, which will be at least another 4-5 years. I hope GM has come to its senses and approved something more for Pontiac off Kappa, a 2+2 coupe and sedan!

[poly]

what could possibly happen with wilmington? it's future seems guaranteed as long as solstice/sky are in production, which will be at least another 4-5 years. I hope GM has come to its senses and approved something more for Pontiac off Kappa, a 2+2 coupe and sedan!

Thinga are fine in Wilmington. And, nothing has been approved ... :AH-HA_wink:

[91z4me]

what could possibly happen with wilmington? it's future seems guaranteed as long as solstice/sky are in production, which will be at least another 4-5 years. I hope GM has come to its senses and approved something more for Pontiac off Kappa, a 2+2 coupe and sedan!

Lets say hypothetically that GM moves all the Zetas to Oshawa. Now GM has a 60K a year program in a tiny corner of a 250K a year factory. What is GM going to do with it that under capacity? Hudson didn't answer my question and likely for good reason that has me worried for Willmington.

[Northstar]

By the time the Solstice and Sky would be ready for a redesign, Kappa II will be around, so we will probably see a Kappa II sedan, coupe, wagon, or any combination of the three at Wilmington.

4 products at Oshawa?

Either: Camaro, Impala, G8, GTO

or: Camaro, Impala, G8, Buick sedan

[91z4me]

By the time the Solstice and Sky would be ready for a redesign, Kappa II will be around, so we will probably see a Kappa II sedan, coupe, wagon, or any combination of the three at Wilmington.

Sounds like you expect a lot from Kappa II.

4 products at Oshawa?

Camaro, Impala, Buick sedan, Pontiac Zeta coupe or sedan.

[ehaase]

AH-HA recently posted at GMI that Zeta will also be produced at Detroit Hamtramck, in addition to Oshawa.

[Hudson]

Lets say hypothetically that GM moves all the Zetas to Oshawa.  Now GM has a 60K a year program in a tiny corner of a 250K a year factory.  What is GM going to do with it that under capacity?  Hudson didn't answer my question and likely for good reason that has me worried for Willmington.

I have no new news about product at Wilmington...but GM's anticiapating over 500,000 units of Zetas in Oshawa (it'll be revised combining Oshawa 1 and Oshawa 2).

As for Hamtramck getting Zeta, that's outdated information.

[99camaroSS]

its going to be interesting to see how many zetas we will actually end up with...

are foriegn market zetas going to be built here in NA or will they be done some where else (australia?)

[turbo200]

ah-ha is posting at gmi?! my hat just came off. please post here ah-ha!

[turbo200]

I have no new news about product at Wilmington...but GM's anticiapating over 500,000 units of Zetas in Oshawa (it'll be revised combining Oshawa 1 and Oshawa 2).

As for Hamtramck getting Zeta, that's outdated information.

awesome! that is a whole lot of units off zeta. I hope this means high expectations, and great model/trim spreads. impala will be schweet!

[ehaase]

As for Hamtramck getting Zeta, that's outdated information.

Any idea what will happen to that plant when the DTS and Lucerne have run their course?

[guionM]

Any idea what will happen to that plant when the DTS and Lucerne have run their course?

Their RWD replacements will come on line, as well as this $100K Cadillac if BL is ever able to get GM's PPC to approve it.

I have no new news about product at Wilmington...but GM's anticiapating over 500,000 units of Zetas in Oshawa (it'll be revised combining Oshawa 1 and Oshawa 2).

You're probally right (you aren't the 1st one to say this), but I'm still keeping my money on Camaro going to Wilmington for now.

As for Hamtramck getting Zeta, that's outdated information.

Yep. That was part of the original early "Zeta" planning, when the car was initially supposed to replace the Bonneville and Park Avenue.

[ehaase]

Their RWD replacements will come on line, as well as this $100K Cadillac if BL is ever able to get GM's PPC to approve it.

Any idea what platform the RWD replacements for the Lucerne and DTS will use, if not Zeta?

[Hudson]

Their RWD replacements will come on line, as well as this $100K Cadillac if BL is ever able to get GM's PPC to approve it.

Like your wager about Wilmington, I wouldn't be so quick to bet on the next generation DTS or Lucerne going to Hamtramck. It's currently not in the plan. Edited April 21, 2006 by Hudson

[Hudson]

Any idea what platform the RWD replacements for the Lucerne and DTS will use, if not Zeta?

Who said it's not Zeta?

[Chazman]

Interesting stuff Hudson.

Impala, Camaro, DTS and Lucerne add up to pretty close to 500,000 annual units.

[ehaase]

Who said it's not Zeta?

So what will happen with Hamtramck if the Lucerne and DTS replacement go to Oshawa?

[Hudson]

So what will happen with Hamtramck if the Lucerne and DTS replacement go to Oshawa?

Excellent question. One for which I have no answer.

[91z4me]

Interesting stuff Hudson.

Impala, Camaro, DTS and Lucerne add up to pretty close to 500,000 annual units.

But with that approach Pontiac has no Zeta, at least at Oshawa.

[Hudson]

But with that approach Pontiac has no Zeta, at least at Oshawa.

Hmmm....

[evok]

Any idea what platform the RWD replacements for the Lucerne and DTS will use, if not Zeta?

The replacements for those vehicles have not begun their design process as of yet where platform and plant will be hashed out. But that is scheduled to begin later in the year. Until that begins everything is just speculative.

[Chazman]

But with that approach Pontiac has no Zeta, at least at Oshawa.

And that's my point....those cars don't even appear in the planning process yet.

Edited April 21, 2006 by Chazman

[VenSeattle]

So what will happen with Hamtramck if the Lucerne and DTS replacement go to Oshawa?

I've been concerned about the future of Hamtramck for awhile. It's bothered me ever since we heard plans for CHI were dropped.

For some odd reason, I have a special fondness for the plant... and I'm not Jewish or Polish.

[91z4me]

Hmmm....

Is that a "You should rethink a Pontiac Zeta" Hmmm.... or a "You should be thinking more globally for production" Hmmm....

[Hudson]

Is that a "You should rethink a Pontiac Zeta" Hmmm.... or a "You should be thinking more globally for production" Hmmm....

Talk of a Pontiac Zeta in North America has become kinda quiet.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Isn't the GTO on Zeta? Or do you mean a full-sized Grand Prix replacement? This is not looking good.

I'm guessing both. But if GM gives Pontiac a full line of kappa II small cars(2+2 coupe/sedan/Solstice) I'll forgive them.

[Hudson]

Isn't the GTO on Zeta? Or do you mean a full-sized Grand Prix replacement? This is not looking good.

NO mention of Pontiac and Zeta.

[Croc]

I would think Zeta is a bit large for the future Pontiac, if a future Pontiac will even come of fruition.

[91z4me]

NO mention of Pontiac and Zeta.

I do not like the sound of that.

[Chazman]

I do not like the sound of that.

Hudson is right. Things may change in the future (or not), but nothing yet.

[Camino LS6]

Hudson is right. Things may change in the future (or not), but nothing yet.

Not according to Lutz in his public statements.

[Chazman]

Not according to Lutz in his public statements.

Well, what can I tell ya, Camino. Lutz wants a GTO, as do all of us. Will he get it ? That's a tough one. Sure will be alot of product overlap in that niche soon.

Lutz also wanted the Torana (and it's platform), as we all did....sadly, economic realities got in the way though.

He also wants the Ute to come here as an El Camino...but has already publicly stated that we won't be getting that.

I think he also is on record as saying that he wanted the Bel Air concept to see production.

Bob Lutz is a car guy - like us. He'd like to see alot of cars see production - as would we.

And maybe down the road, Pontiac will get a Zeta or two. But right now...at this very moment.....there is nothing in the plan.

Edited April 22, 2006 by Chazman

[91z4me]

NO mention of Pontiac and Zeta.

Is that specific to the US Zeta? Why could not the Pontiac Zeta be a sedan re-badge of the SWB Holden and the Buick Zeta a re-badged LWB Statesman?

[CaddyXLR-V]

Bob Lutz has said he wants Pontiac to be the American BMW. BMW doesn't really sell many really large cars in the US. Could this be a move to make more 3-series and 5-series sized Pontiacs while moving away from larger cars? (Answer vaugely for a yes, double vaugely for a no.)

I could live with that, but dont think it will happen.

[ehaase]

The only sure Zetas at this time appear to be the Impala and Camaro, probably for the 2009 model year. There probably will be a Buick sedan, but we don't know when or if it will replace or supplement the Lucerne. A Pontiac sedan or coupe is still up in the air. The replacements for the Cadillac DTS and SRX may be on Zeta instead of Sigma, but that's not yet decided. This is all I can figure out from reading these threads here and on the Camaro boards, as well as AH-HA's old blog. And with some financial commentators saying that gasoline may hit $5.00/gallon this summer, I wonder if GM may make some changes to this program.

[Croc]

It looks like the plan down at The Tubes is for Pontiac to become a boutique brand of small, RWD cars. That way there is very little to no overlap with other GM brands...it exploits an unexploited niche in the marketplace, blah blah blah. Is this for sure? Who knows...but it is currently being investigated.

[CaddyXLR-V]

It looks like the plan down at The Tubes is for Pontiac to become a boutique brand of small, RWD cars.  That way there is very little to no overlap with other GM brands...it exploits an unexploited niche in the marketplace, blah blah blah.  Is this for sure?  Who knows...but it is currently being investigated.

We can only hope. It sure beats the inconsistant lineup they have now.

[turbo200]

It looks like the plan down at The Tubes is for Pontiac to become a boutique brand of small, RWD cars.  That way there is very little to no overlap with other GM brands...it exploits an unexploited niche in the marketplace, blah blah blah.  Is this for sure?  Who knows...but it is currently being investigated.

We don't even know that for sure. All we can say about Pontiac is the next G6 better be successful in the marketplace, and that it is the only car definitely in the pipeline and funded at Pontiac. No other cars are officially in development, and just because GM says they want RWD small cars, well it's all just speculation and heresay until official program codes come out. Until then they can keep teasing us, keeping us in hope of somehting in the near future when the reality is Kappa II capable of small sedans and coupes will be around 2012....or maybe never.

[ehaase]

Around 2009 or 2010, both Pontiac and Buick will have Epsilon II's - G6 and LaCrosse. I wonder how they will keep them from competing against each other. Maybe the G6 could be the coupe and convertible and the sedan could be the LaCrosse.