Chevrolet News:Spying: Chevrolet SS

[balthazar]

Also there was a rumor of Caddy using BMW's V8.

Hard to exceed the travesty of that move WRT image.

[hyperv6]

But lets just let GM show us what the standard model is before we get too far ahead.

Yeah, let's see the product unveiled to see where GM is aiming at.

I just hope, though, that GM would introduce the engine on a Cadillac and then have it trickle down to Chevrolet. I know it's all GM Engineering so it is (being 100% objective) the exact same thing, but... Cadillac having precedence in the engine's introduction would be a tiny but welcome step in the perception side of things (Chevrolets getting a Cadillac engine and not the other way around)...

There is one big issue. GM has spent too many years promoting this as a Small Block Chevy when in truth it pretty much is a new engine unto it's self. The Cadillac angle would have been nice but difficult at this point to change boats in mid river.

The other issue is GM will not have a car for a V8 till the new CTSv is ready and it is a little ways off yet. As it is the Vette was stated as the first model to show off the new engine and then the rest.

I still wonder what they have planned for the Omega. I really expect something special there and not just a juiced up Gen V.

CTS should have a non-V V8 model, so the car for that V8 is just around the corner, a year or so away

Re the Omega's engine, wasn't there a rumor going around of a DOHC version of the Gen V having been designed by GM?

Also there was a rumor of Caddy using BMW's V8.

I have heard that too. A deal like the Lotus/GM Designed ZR1 engine could be done but the more I see with where GM is today post Chapter 11 I feel this option is no longer needed.

I just have a better feeling we will see something done at the Wixcom center.

[ZL-1]

A V12 would be pure sex... Not going to happen though...

[balthazar]

As long as it would be a Cadillac V-12; if it's BMW built, I'd rather have a 6.

[hyperv6]

A V12 would be pure sex... Not going to happen though...

I have to agree a V12 just will not happen unless something crazy comes about.

I do think there is something special coming because there are enough people there who understand what is needed. It is also to hide an engine in plain site in a plain old VE Holden for testing. They could be doing this now and we would never know.

On one level I have seen were some of the Euro companies are moving to more Turbo V8 engines and it makes me wonder if they would be looking at that. But what ever it is it needs to be done right. It need to be more than just a cobbled up engine based on some other engine. The days of where they wanted to adapt two Quad 4 engines to make a V8 make my skin crawl. GM no longer has to resort to this.

If Lotus was not in so much trouble I would love to see GM build a nice engine and share it with them for one of their cars. I am still shocked they nevere said much about the work Lotus did on the Ecotech Turbo.

[riviera74]

As long as it would be a Cadillac V-12; if it's BMW built, I'd rather have a 6.

I presume you mean an inline six. What are the advantages of a BMW I6 compared to a GM V6 or (more likely) a small block V8?

[balthazar]

No; an inline 6 is an ancient configuration, but besides that, my objection is the origin; BMW. I would NEVER buy a Cadilac with a BMW engine.

[G. David Felt]

No; an inline 6 is an ancient configuration, but besides that, my objection is the origin; BMW. I would NEVER buy a Cadilac with a BMW engine.

I totally agree with you. No German auto engine in my Caddy!!!

[hyperv6]

We will get a 6 speed Manual in the SS at some point. I just saw we should expect it to happen after intro.

[ZL-1]

A V12 would be pure sex... Not going to happen though...

I have to agree a V12 just will not happen unless something crazy comes about.

I do think there is something special coming because there are enough people there who understand what is needed. It is also to hide an engine in plain site in a plain old VE Holden for testing. They could be doing this now and we would never know.

On one level I have seen were some of the Euro companies are moving to more Turbo V8 engines and it makes me wonder if they would be looking at that. But what ever it is it needs to be done right. It need to be more than just a cobbled up engine based on some other engine. The days of where they wanted to adapt two Quad 4 engines to make a V8 make my skin crawl. GM no longer has to resort to this.

If Lotus was not in so much trouble I would love to see GM build a nice engine and share it with them for one of their cars. I am still shocked they nevere said much about the work Lotus did on the Ecotech Turbo.

But pairing 2 LFX engines would be sweet!

[hyperv6]

Paring engines is a old stunt that leads to more cylinders and not always a better engine.

GM would be better off doing it right or just using a Gen V vs some cobbled up mess.

If GM not afford to do a special engine right they would be better off just modifying the new Gen V. Cylinder count does not have the draw it once had with the public. An advanced and refind hi output engine is more important vs how many cylinders.

[smk4565]

They still have to sell this car. If a 450 hp V8 is the base engine, they will charge $45-50,000 for it. They are about to charge $34k for an ATS 2.5 liter, a V6 Impala will probably be $30k, seeing as a 4-cylinder LaCrosse is over $30k. Figure they charge $50k for a base Corvette, so a Corvette engine in a full size sedan is going to cost that much. I don't see people spending $50k for a Chevrolet sedan, Cadillac struggles to get people to spend $50k for a sedan.

And as Balthazar has mentioned, the hierarchy would be messed up. If Cadillac has the ATS, CTS, XTS in the $34-45,000 range for base prices, how do you put a Chevy up there and with a V8 when none of those 3 Cadillacs offer a V8 except for CTS-V. This is part of the problem with GM, Cadillac should be the grand daddy of them all, not behind Chevy.

[balthazar]

^ It has nothing to do with V8s, it's the HP issue, esp when at the mega levels.

You are twisting my post.

[smk4565]

^ It has nothing to do with V8s, it's the HP issue, esp when at the mega levels.

You are twisting my post.

Ok, well still, you can't have a 450 hp Chevy, let alone a 600 hp Chevy when the ATS has a 195 hp or 200 hp 4-banger, the next gen CTS is getting a 4-banger and the XTS has 300 hp. And mega horsepower cars cost a lot, and Chevy is a value brand, and they need some volume. But I fear the "old GM" will rear its ugly head here and we will basically get a direct from Australia import that has the same flaws the GTO and G8 did. At least the G8 had a V6 model that wasn't crazy expensive, imaging if the G8 was only the GXP model, they would have sold 20 a month.

[balthazar]

^ Again- wrong. You cannot seriously be proposing zero overlap in HP by marque- that's insanely divided from reality. Try again.

G8 & GTO weren't Chevy's; therefore not the volume brand.... never mind clearly not volume models.

[hyperv6]

Let it go guys you are arguing about somthing that may never happen and if it does it would be only a handfull of limited editions on a already limite production car.

The only think known is we will get a Chevy RWD and it is expected to be approx 450 HP and cost in the $39K-49 range. Lets get this one first and then disagree on what may come later.

It just seems so anal around here anymore since GM has been more witholding on info. We are down to disagreeing on things that may never come.

[balthazar]

I'm downright disagreeing on the "known" 450 HP Chevy sports sedan.

[hyperv6]

Look you can disagree all you like but I am not going to argue with you.

Time will prove!

Note it was approx 450 HP for the future low volume flagship with the new DI Gen V.

Edited June 9, 2012 by hyperv6

[smk4565]

^ Again- wrong. You cannot seriously be proposing zero overlap in HP by marque- that's insanely divided from reality. Try again.

G8 & GTO weren't Chevy's; therefore not the volume brand.... never mind clearly not volume models.

I am not saying power can't overlap, obviously a Camaro and Corvette are going to have 400 hp engines because people buy them for speed. But GM can't keep doing high performance Chevys while Cadillac gets a bunch of 4-cylinders and the V6 from an Impala. I don't care if they drop a Corvette engine in a big Chevy sedan, they aren't going to sell that many anyway, they would need a V6 model to go against the V6 Charger. I am just saying GM can't forget about Cadillac, that is the crown jewel, Cadillac should do everything better than Chevy, that is why it is a Cadillac.

[Z-06]

^ Again- wrong. You cannot seriously be proposing zero overlap in HP by marque- that's insanely divided from reality. Try again.

G8 & GTO weren't Chevy's; therefore not the volume brand.... never mind clearly not volume models.

I am not saying power can't overlap, obviously a Camaro and Corvette are going to have 400 hp engines because people buy them for speed. But GM can't keep doing high performance Chevys while Cadillac gets a bunch of 4-cylinders and the V6 from an Impala. I don't care if they drop a Corvette engine in a big Chevy sedan, they aren't going to sell that many anyway, they would need a V6 model to go against the V6 Charger. I am just saying GM can't forget about Cadillac, that is the crown jewel, Cadillac should do everything better than Chevy, that is why it is a Cadillac.

You mean just like how VW has a V6 in Passat and A4 is stuck with a 4 banger? Or how Tuareg Hybrid has more HP than Audi Q7?

Or how the engines are shared between VW, Audi, and Porsche?

[riviera74]

I think we need to relax (all of us, me included) until we can actually see one at a local Chevy dealership. Then we can either sing its praises or completely trash it on merit.

[Robert Hall]

^ It has nothing to do with V8s, it's the HP issue, esp when at the mega levels.

You are twisting my post.

Ok, well still, you can't have a 450 hp Chevy, let alone a 600 hp Chevy when the ATS has a 195 hp or 200 hp 4-banger, the next gen CTS is getting a 4-banger and the XTS has 300 hp. And mega horsepower cars cost a lot, and Chevy is a value brand, and they need some volume. But I fear the "old GM" will rear its ugly head here and we will basically get a direct from Australia import that has the same flaws the GTO and G8 did. At least the G8 had a V6 model that wasn't crazy expensive, imaging if the G8 was only the GXP model, they would have sold 20 a month.

Your logic makes no sense...a V8 Chevy competes in a different market niche to a different customer than a 4cyl Cadillac. Apples and oranges.

[smk4565]

You mean just like how VW has a V6 in Passat and A4 is stuck with a 4 banger? Or how Tuareg Hybrid has more HP than Audi Q7?

Or how the engines are shared between VW, Audi, and Porsche?

Passat is larger than an A4, and you can get an A4 with a 310 hp/325 lb-ft supercharged V6. The Toureg Hybrid is also priced like an Escalade, it costs more than a Q7, they share a diesel and the Q7 V6 makes more power than a Toureg V6. And they do make a V12 Q7, they just don't sell it in the USA. Porsche shares a couple of those powertrains but they also have a 500 hp option.

Obviously Cadillac is going to share turbo 4s and V6 with Buick or Chevy, but Cadillac still needs something to make Cadillac special. GM is putting in a plan to make three V8 Chevy cars, while Cadillac has 1? What happened? It used to be every Cadillac had a V8, they were the first automaker to mass produce a V8. Now they are just sending Cadillac down the CAFE highway to hell so they can make V8 Chevy sports cars and V8 Chevy trucks?

[hyperv6]

I think we need to relax (all of us, me included) until we can actually see one at a local Chevy dealership. Then we can either sing its praises or completely trash it on merit.

I agree. Better to let this go till GM at the very least gives you something real to argue about.

To argue bout the power of this car now is like complaining about styling with camo in place or a unfiinshed interiror.

Too many here are suffering Premature Speculation.

[balthazar]

And when it's on the showroom floor, it'll be 'why argue about something we can't change- let's focus on what's to come in the future'.

Why discuss anything at all.

[smk4565]

This could be a sweet car if done right. To me, the Genesis is a great car in a bland package. The Charger and 300 have bold packages but sort of old chassis at this point, and despite the improvements on interior, Chrysler isn't setting any standards. Chevy has a chance here to have a modern, updated large RWD sedan that is a good car and has good styling. I fear though we get another car like the GTO and G8 that don't quite hit the mark.

[Daryl Z71]

I wish the name was different so IMO they haven't started it off right. Hopefully the styling changes that for me.