CNG, What would it take to convert you and the rest of America?

[SAmadei]

I do find the quote about the US also interesting considering that converted auto's tend to have no emissions, but CNG auto's built and sold by the actual auto companies do have emissions controls. Guess they learned from Europe.

Perhaps this is the case for dedicated CNG vehicles, but there is no way dual fuel vehicles are not running emissions equipment. A few searches online and you would see that there are special CNG catalytic converters. Apparently, running CNG does not damage gasoline catalytics... and also the gasoline cats are ineffective on CNG exhaust.

This article describes a Pentastar V6 being converted to dual fuel and no emissions parts were disturbed... http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/maintenance/should-you-convert-your-car-to-natural-gas

A few other interesting things noted in this article...

The opinion here is that DIY conversion is going to run afoul of the Clean Air Act and net you $5K a day fines if you drive your modified car.

Also noted is that NFPA bans storage of CNG in a home, so filling is going to be slow. The article does not mention if outdoor CNG storage would be legal.

[Drew Dowdell]

NORTHWEST CNG LLC

Yup, I pulled the trigger and picked up the Distributorship for BRC Fuelmaker CNG Fueling Stations.

I am going to do my part for getting us off oil and onto US Natural Gas.

Northwest CNG LLC

www.nwcng.com

[email protected]

206-947-5801

So my web site was a quick build, I am working on a much better detailed site to be up in the near future. Already doing qoutes as Washington State has given all Gov Agencies from state, county, city and colleges till 2016 to change all gov auto's to one of 3 choices: Electrical, BioFuel or CNG.

I felt this was the right time to make a career change. Wish me luck!

New Project is to convert my Trailblazer SS to run on CNG

When you're ready to do some online advertising :-)

Yes, Once I get everything setup and my web site fully built, then I would love to put up some advertising here.

We have a comprehensive and sophisticated ad server running here, we just aren't using it for private ad buys yet.

[G. David Felt]

I do find the quote about the US also interesting considering that converted auto's tend to have no emissions, but CNG auto's built and sold by the actual auto companies do have emissions controls. Guess they learned from Europe.

Perhaps this is the case for dedicated CNG vehicles, but there is no way dual fuel vehicles are not running emissions equipment. A few searches online and you would see that there are special CNG catalytic converters. Apparently, running CNG does not damage gasoline catalytics... and also the gasoline cats are ineffective on CNG exhaust.

This article describes a Pentastar V6 being converted to dual fuel and no emissions parts were disturbed... http://www.popularme...-to-natural-gas

A few other interesting things noted in this article...

The opinion here is that DIY conversion is going to run afoul of the Clean Air Act and net you $5K a day fines if you drive your modified car.

Also noted is that NFPA bans storage of CNG in a home, so filling is going to be slow. The article does not mention if outdoor CNG storage would be legal.

You are correct, if your caught, as Canada will do cheap converstions that are not EPA certified you end up having to pay big time.

Home CNG fueling is allowed, the PHILL unit that goes on your wall in the garage is an overnight fueling at 1/2 gallon an hour. Yet with prices for CNG at home running from a low of .68 cents to $2 a gallon, the savings over the long run add up. You can also for your home get a Small Q or Big Q fueling system. They are 1.5 gallons an hour or 3.5 gallons an hour fueling. So you can fill up much faster, but these units are required to be installed outside.

A honda civic GX CNG is a 300 miles on a tank full or about 27 mpg per their web site, so filling up overnight at home is an easy thing and you always have fast fill fueling stations you can use also.

GM Bi-Fuel trucks have a total of 655 miles using both CNG and Petrol. Funny they will not state gas mileage but will say you should get about 355 miles out of the petrol tank, so that would leave you with 300 miles on the CNG. Your still for either fuel around the 14-15 miles per gallon rate.

Edited June 8, 2012 by dfelt

[SAmadei]

You are correct, if your caught, as Canada will do cheap converstions that are not EPA certified you end up having to pay big time.

Well, this is a problem, as an awful lot of CNG conversion parts are being sold in this country. The EPA should either enforce it or let the end user have a certain amount of leeway, provided the sniffer test is happy.

Home CNG fueling is allowed, the PHILL unit that goes on your wall in the garage is an overnight fueling at 1/2 gallon an hour. Yet with prices for CNG at home running from a low of .68 cents to $2 a gallon, the savings over the long run add up. You can also for your home get a Small Q or Big Q fueling system. They are 1.5 gallons an hour or 3.5 gallons an hour fueling. So you can fill up much faster, but these units are required to be installed outside.

Do these use a tank? I like the idea of having an extra tank that is already filled at 1/2 gallon an hour... ready for a quicker fill up if needed.

[G. David Felt]

You are correct, if your caught, as Canada will do cheap converstions that are not EPA certified you end up having to pay big time.

Well, this is a problem, as an awful lot of CNG conversion parts are being sold in this country. The EPA should either enforce it or let the end user have a certain amount of leeway, provided the sniffer test is happy.

Home CNG fueling is allowed, the PHILL unit that goes on your wall in the garage is an overnight fueling at 1/2 gallon an hour. Yet with prices for CNG at home running from a low of .68 cents to $2 a gallon, the savings over the long run add up. You can also for your home get a Small Q or Big Q fueling system. They are 1.5 gallons an hour or 3.5 gallons an hour fueling. So you can fill up much faster, but these units are required to be installed outside.

Do these use a tank? I like the idea of having an extra tank that is already filled at 1/2 gallon an hour... ready for a quicker fill up if needed.

The PHILL unit is a Time Fill only system. The Small Q and Big Q units can have holding tanks for a fast or faster fill option.

[G. David Felt]

YEA YEA YEA

http://www.nwcng.com

I am alive on the internet. So visit, bash me, trash me and tell me what ya think!

[A Horse With No Name]

What it would take is a repeal of the absurdly restrictive EPA requirements for conversions. The actual technology is cheap and well understood, only the EPA requirements make it so expensive.

The rest would follow naturally if the EPA would get out of the way.

That would also solve a lot of the problems for diesels as well....the current VW diesels would pick up about 15 or 20 MPG if they could use slightly less restrictive technology for pollution control.

...I wonder how a converted vehicle would work for competition use.

Would be cool to auto-x/race a converted vehicle.

[Intrepidation]

The tanks have 25yr certification life before retesting. Tanks are required to handle 25K PSI pressure so you really do not have to worry about being in an accident as tanks rarely ever blow.

The tanks can be retested? How much does that cost and where can it be done? The cost of expiring/expired tanks is so low that I thought retesting was not available... only replacement.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

How long did station refilling take, compared to gasoline?

So if you look above I do cover the fueling times per type of home/business fueling stations. From .5GGE per hour to 3.5GGE per hour. Now except for the base level on your garage wall fueling system PHILL, all others can have holding tanks. This allows Instant fueing at home just like a CNG or Petrol Fuel Station which is instant. CNG and Petrol take about the same amount of time for filling. Just need to have the CNG Holding tank to hold the compressed NG.

In regards to retesting, you will have to check for your local state, I am not sure if all states allow retesting or not. West coast does seem to do this as in washington you can go to a certified CNG shop and get your tanks retested and certified again.

One thing that is becoming more popular is that with new tank construction, people are going away from the traditional large circle tank to ones that fit up in the frames more custome being built of multiple smaller tanks to take advantage of the fram layout. GM did this with their Commercial CNG Vans and get much large CNG holding capacity due to using multiple various size tanks to fill a rectangular area.

I am only guessing now, but I suspect as more types of materials get approved to hold CNG, we will see better advances in tank design. Not much different than Petrol tanks.

Sweet, so when are you trading in your Tahoe for a Civic GX?

[SAmadei]

Sweet, so when are you trading in your Tahoe for a Civic GX?

Why would he do that when you can get fullsize vans, Pickups, Crown Vics, etc. running on CNG fairly cheap?

[G. David Felt]

Sweet, so when are you trading in your Tahoe for a Civic GX?

Why would he do that when you can get fullsize vans, Pickups, Crown Vics, etc. running on CNG fairly cheap?

Better yet, why would I give up my SUV's when they have EPA certified Conversion kits and I can get a sweet running ride that is Greener than now!

[SAmadei]

Sweet, so when are you trading in your Tahoe for a Civic GX?

Why would he do that when you can get fullsize vans, Pickups, Crown Vics, etc. running on CNG fairly cheap?

Better yet, why would I give up my SUV's when they have EPA certified Conversion kits and I can get a sweet running ride that is Greener than now!

Yeah, but how much do they cost after a EPA certified tech installs it? And is it a situation where its certified for a L92 but not a L76.

[G. David Felt]

Sweet, so when are you trading in your Tahoe for a Civic GX?

Why would he do that when you can get fullsize vans, Pickups, Crown Vics, etc. running on CNG fairly cheap?

Better yet, why would I give up my SUV's when they have EPA certified Conversion kits and I can get a sweet running ride that is Greener than now!

Yeah, but how much do they cost after a EPA certified tech installs it? And is it a situation where its certified for a L92 but not a L76.

True, installation can run from 5K to 10K depending on the make and model, but if you are holding onto your auto for a long time, then the cost truly is returned in the savings of CNG and clean emissions you run.

[G. David Felt]

Maxximus LNG 2000 Combines Style, Power, and Natural Gas

http://www.greencar.com/articles/maxximus-lng-2000-combines-style-power-natural-gas.php

Drive this bad boy to work and plug in at home to refuel!!

[FAPTurbo]

Sweet, so when are you trading in your Tahoe for a Civic GX?