CNG, What would it take to convert you and the rest of America?

[G. David Felt]

So I have been spending some time looking at CNG Fueling stations. I was going to bring this up on the thread I remeber on this site about anouncing that GM was starting to sell CNG trucks/suv's or something to that line.

So currently here in Washington, NG is at $2 per Thousand Cubic feet.

So what would the ROI be on changing over?

Your looking at about 500-1000 for a cng conversion kit for your auto and about $5000 for a home fueling kit. The current thought is this make the best sense for America to kick the Oil Habit, we need a stepping stone to the eventual holy grail of Pure Electric. Since the US has the 2nd largest reserves of NG in the world and most people have NG at their house, it would tend to make sense for people to install a CNG home fueling system and if they do not want to deal with fueling overnight, get a holding tank so it can fill up the tank with CNG and this would give you a fast typical 3-5 min fueling time.

Here is a site that breaks down details at the time of CNG ROI based on January 2011.

http://www.mudomaha.com/naturalgas/pdfs/cng.faq.pdf

One thing is the crazy high cost of a conversion kit as I have found them much cheaper than stated here. Also the stated cost of a $1.78 per gallon. The same gallon of CNG give the same as a gallon of gas.

if you drive 12000 miles a year at $4 a gallon at an average MPG of 25 you use 480 gallons of gas at $1920 fuel bill yearly.

12000 miles a year at $1.78 per CNG gallon (local CNG Pump) at 25MPG using 480 gallons of CNG equals $854.40 per fuel bill for the year.

12000 miles a year at .86 per CNG gallon (home) at 25MPG using 480 gallons of CNG equals $412.80 per fuel bill for the year.

With a average additional cost of $5K for the vehicle and about $5K for the Fueling system at home does it make sense for you to conver over?

If you go with CNG but no home fueling station, you end up with about 4 1/2 years for ROI.

If you go with CNG and Home Fueling station you end up with about 6 1/2 years for ROI.

So DOES it make sense to convert or change your vehicles over to driving CNG for you?????

http://www.cngprices.com/index.php

CURRENT CAR LIST

• Honda Civc GX (factory CNG)
  
• Chevy Impala (2010)
  
• Chevy Silverado (2010-2012, 5.3 or 6L)
  
• Chevy Savana (2010)
  
• Ford Transit Connect (2010-2012)
  
• Ford Crown Victoria (2010-1011)
  
• Ford F150 (2010-2012)
  
• Ford F250/350 (2011-2012)
  
• Ford E450 (2011-2012)
  
• Ford Escape (2011-2012)
  
• Izusu NPR (2012)
  

[SAmadei]

You have to refigure your numbers. DIY CNG conversion is going to cost you more like $2500-$5500, depending on what tanks you use. Cheap tanks are likely small or have expired, or will be soon. If you have cheaper price quotes, please post them.

OTOH, I have seen CNG vans and pickups going cheap on some parts of the country... $3K-$6K, but the tanks are also rapidly expiring on these, as well. Its still a question to me if having expired tanks are enforced.

Also, I would try to avoid the home refueling, as my mileage is not really enough. I can buy $2.20 GGE (gas gallon equivilent) at two stations within 10 miles. Takes reportedly about twice as long to fill up as gasoline.

My friend with a E-350 who delivers stuff, puts about 300 miles a week on the truck. On gas it gets about 12 mpg... so 25 gallons of gas per week... at $3.80, $95. A similar CNG van would get 11 mpg... 27 GGE, at $2.20 GGE, $59. For a $4000 truck (or conversion), it takes about 102 weeks.... slightly less than 2 years to pay for itself.

For him to use a home refueling unit, it changes things. A GGE is 114,000 BTU... 1.14 Therms. South Jersey Gas appears to be roughly $0.57 a therm right now... that's about 64 cents a GGE... so for the same 27 GGEs needed, it would be $17.28... but now he would have a $4000 truck and $5000 refueler... saving $78 a week, would take 115 weeks, slightly more than 2 years to pay for it.

Of course, he actually has more trucks, so he could get more mileage out of the refueler... but I'll stop there.

[riviera74]

$5000 to convert a gasoline engine to CNG? How will that work with, say, a supercharged engine such as the 3800 Supercharged in my Park Avenue Ultra?

More importantly, conversion will have to be cheap and CNG stations would have to be plentiful in order for me (and most of the USA) to convert gasoline cars to CNG. Automakers would instead have you buy NEW cars instead of converting old ones.

[Camino LS6]

What it would take is a repeal of the absurdly restrictive EPA requirements for conversions. The actual technology is cheap and well understood, only the EPA requirements make it so expensive.

The rest would follow naturally if the EPA would get out of the way.

[Z-06]

What it would take is a repeal of the absurdly restrictive EPA requirements for conversions. The actual technology is cheap and well understood, only the EPA requirements make it so expensive.

The rest would follow naturally if the EPA would get out of the way.

This. Actual conversion can be had for sub $1K if the "need" from EPA did not exist.

[SAmadei]

What it would take is a repeal of the absurdly restrictive EPA requirements for conversions. The actual technology is cheap and well understood, only the EPA requirements make it so expensive.

The rest would follow naturally if the EPA would get out of the way.

This. Actual conversion can be had for sub $1K if the "need" from EPA did not exist.

We're only speaking DIY conversions here, so the EPA is not really a cost factor here. $1000 gets you a CNG kit for a V8, but does not get you tanks... and the tanks are expensive... generally due to safety issues related to the aging of the tank.

$5000 to convert a gasoline engine to CNG? How will that work with, say, a supercharged engine such as the 3800 Supercharged in my Park Avenue Ultra?

More importantly, conversion will have to be cheap and CNG stations would have to be plentiful in order for me (and most of the USA) to convert gasoline cars to CNG. Automakers would instead have you buy NEW cars instead of converting old ones.

64 cents for a "gallon" (Gas Gallon Equivalent) of CNG should be pretty compelling.

[Camino LS6]

This is the way forward if the vested interests can be curbed along with the damned EPA.

[G. David Felt]

So there is a defuct Pizza Chain here in Seattle called Pizza Heaven and they had over 30 CNG pickup trucks with Pizza Warmer ovens in the bed, can hold up to 10Pie's. Selling them off at state auction later next month. Wonder If I could pick one up for less than a grand. Then add the CNG fueling station on my garage wall and I am all set.

[SAmadei]

So there is a defuct Pizza Chain here in Seattle called Pizza Heaven and they had over 30 CNG pickup trucks with Pizza Warmer ovens in the bed, can hold up to 10Pie's. Selling them off at state auction later next month. Wonder If I could pick one up for less than a grand. Then add the CNG fueling station on my garage wall and I am all set.

If they are dedicated CNG vehicles, I would imagine their value will be inversely related to the time left on the tanks. Check the notice on the fuel filler door. 1998-on tanks are good for 20 years. 2007-on tanks are good for 25 years.

[G. David Felt]

So there is a defuct Pizza Chain here in Seattle called Pizza Heaven and they had over 30 CNG pickup trucks with Pizza Warmer ovens in the bed, can hold up to 10Pie's. Selling them off at state auction later next month. Wonder If I could pick one up for less than a grand. Then add the CNG fueling station on my garage wall and I am all set.

If they are dedicated CNG vehicles, I would imagine their value will be inversely related to the time left on the tanks. Check the notice on the fuel filler door. 1998-on tanks are good for 20 years. 2007-on tanks are good for 25 years.

Thanks, that is some good info. I will take a look at the tanks.

[G. David Felt]

Today is a COOL Day for me. Pretty Cool I think. Talk back peeps and tell me what you think.

I just got the Distributor ship paper work for the following company:

BRC Gas Equipment of Italy

http://www.brc.it/ge...nid=168&lang=en#

They have an awesome Home Fueling station as well as Commercial Fueling Station.

http://www.brcfuelma...a/chi_siamo.asp

Edited April 27, 2012 by dfelt

[G. David Felt]

So GM has expanded their CNG fleet.

You can now get Vans that average 16mpg and are good for 250 miles on a fill up. 16,000 of these vans were delivered last year to people.

http://gas2.org/2011/02/10/gm-is-getting-serious-about-cng-fleet-vehicles/

Prety amazing to see that GM has 17 alternative fuel vehicles and 5 hybrid versions.

http://www.media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/news/news_detail.brand_gm.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2010/May/0518_fco_cng

I think those of us that get in on this will end up being where the rest will be in the next 5 to 10 years.

[riviera74]

Natural Gas may not stay cheap forever though, especially if the oil companies find a way to export it to China and/or Europe since both locales are paying 4-6 times as much. It was not that long ago that regular gas was about $1 a gallon, compared to now.

[Camino LS6]

All it would take to make this work is some backbone.

[Drew Dowdell]

How many cubic feet makes a gallon of CNG?

[SAmadei]

How many cubic feet makes a gallon of CNG?

126.67 cu ft... 114,000 BTU. At 3600 psi, its only 0.51 cu ft.

Edited May 12, 2012 by SAmadei

[Drew Dowdell]

Oh wow, that does end up being cheap

[SAmadei]

If I understand the South Jersey Gas tariff correctly, its about 64 cents a GGE right now.

[G. David Felt]

So in doing my research here in washington state, I end up with these figures for the cost of going CNG with a fueling system at home:

15,000 miles a year average travel 45% city, 55% highway driving

As of 5/8/2012 average fuel prices per gallon for Washington state

Regular - $4.00

Midgrade – $4.10

Premium - $4.20

Diesel - $4.35

CNG station - $1.89

CNG home - $0.68

Electricity – 0.15 per kilowatt hour

E85 - $3.75

LPG - $3.99

60-90% less smog producing than regular gas

30-40% less greenhouse gas emissions

Less expensive than gasoline

ROI Info for CNG Auto’s

2012 Honda Civic CNG - http://automobiles.h...ic-natural-gas/

CNG Tank – 8.03 Gallons at 3600PSI 27 city / 38 hwy / 31 combined

15,000 miles / 31MPG = 483.870 gallons of CNG per year @ 0.68 per gallon = $329.03 fuel cost per yr

483.870 gallons of gas @ $4 per gallon = $1935.48 fuel cost per year for a $1606.45 yearly savings

$5000 cost installed for a phill CNG gives you a Return on Investment of 3 years and 1 month.

Ford

Ford commercial truck alternative-fuel choices include the following vehicles, all capable of conversion to CNG operation when equipped with an optional prep engine and modified by approved third-parties:

• Transit Connect – 22 city / 27 highway
  
• E-Series cargo vans 13 city/17 highway
  
• E-Series cutaways, stripped chassis 13 city/17 highway
  
• E-Series wagons 13 city/17 highway
  
• F-Series Super Duty
  
• F-350-F-550 Super Duty chassis cabs
  
• F-650/ F-750 Super Duty chassis cabs
  
• F53, F59 stripped chassis
  

GM

Chevy Express & GM Savana Van - http://www.gmfleet.c...G_Cargo_Van.pdf

3 tank system is 15.8 gallons good for 200 miles –4 tank system is 22 gallons good for 300 miles

- 13mpg Gasoline version get 15mpg 15,000 miles @13mpg = 1154 gallons @ .68pg = $784.62 yearly fuel cost. Compared to 15,000 miles @ 15mpg = 1000gallons @ $4pg = $4000 yearly fuel cost. Yearly savings of $3215.38 or ROI of 1yr 6 months.

Chevy & GMC Full size trucks BiFuel – 36 gallon gasoline tank at 12city/18highway 15 average @ 15,000 miles a year @ $4 = $4000 yearly fuel cost. CNG 3600PSI Tank at 17GGE. CNG 17gallons at 15mpg = 255 miles @ 15,000 miles a year @ .68 a gallon = $680 yearly fuel cost. ROI $3320 a year savings equals 1yr and 3 months.

Toyota

Camry Hybrid - http://pressroom.toy...article_id=1792

Mileage – 32 city/34 highway combined average of 33mpg CNG 4 tank system @ 3600psi equal to 8 gallon tank. 15,000 miles at 33mpg = 454 gallons of cng yearly @ .68 = $309.09 yearly cost of fuel. Gasoline mileage – 25 city/35 highway/28 average. = 535.71 gallons @ $4 = $2142.86 yearly cost of Fuel. $1833.76 yearly savings with CNG. ROI = 2years 9 months.

Chrysler – 2016 CNG cars as 2017 models.

2500 dodge ram with 18.2 gallon CNG tank good for 255 miles as well as an 8 gallon gas tank good for 112 miles on gasoline. CNG = 14mpg and gas = 14, 15,000 miles a year at 14mpg = 1071.42 gallons of CNG per year @ .68 = $ 728.57 per year fuel compared to gas @ $4 per gallon = $4285.68 fuel cost, ROI = 1 year and 2 months.

Edited May 18, 2012 by dfelt

[Drew Dowdell]

Do you get the same mpg on CNG as you would on gasoline?

[Camino LS6]

Do you get the same mpg on CNG as you would on gasoline?

Generally, no.

But that could change with engines optimized for CNG.

[Drew Dowdell]

Well what is the mpg penalty?

I ask because it looks like the assumptions above use the gasoline mpgs...

[Camino LS6]

Well what is the mpg penalty?

I ask because it looks like the assumptions above use the gasoline mpgs...

I don't have the numbers at hand, but call it 10% and you'll be close. Higher compression engines can erase much of that.

[Camino LS6]

With CNG there are other saving to be had as well, service intervals can be extended dramatically and engine life is all but eternal.

[G. David Felt]

Do you get the same mpg on CNG as you would on gasoline?

Honda, GM and Dodge have tuned their engines to give the same MPG on both CNG and Petrol. These Bi-Fuel auto's do not change in this regard, but Chrysler and Ford both say 10% less MPG. Not sure why the some can get the same efficiency compared to others. But at 130 Octane rating, CNG does burn clean and has power.

Also the numbers I state are the CNG numbers and if they had two sets, I would have put them, but Honda, GM and Dodge swear CNG and Petrol gives you the same MPG. Ford is the one that will not state CNG numbers. I am thinking with all the new CNG Transport taxis delievered to LA and NY that they might still be tuning the engines to get them into the same range before stating the MPG numbers.

Edited May 18, 2012 by dfelt

[G. David Felt]

With CNG there are other saving to be had as well, service intervals can be extended dramatically and engine life is all but eternal.

Yes on the LinkedIn forum for alternative Bi-Fuel cars run by GM, they say that the CNG Trucks are a million mile engine with just basic oil changes with little loss in power. Honda also give their CNG Civic twice the engine life compared to a petrol powered engine under basic service.

[Drew Dowdell]

Why so much longer service lives on CNG in an otherwise identical engine?

BTW, I may turn this whole thread into an article from the information you all have provided.

[Justin Bimmer]

Okay, time for me to chime in on this discussion.

I have had extensive experience with CNG transit buses. I drove them for 4 years. I fueled them for 2 years, talked to the mechanics who worked on them etc. Here is what I experienced:

CNG is less efficient than diesel. Cummins and formerly John Deere have had CNG specific engines for a decade now. At first, they were converting diesel engine models to run on CNG, but now Cummins has the experience engineering etc to build them on their own merit and not copy a diesel engine.

CNG fueling in large quantities requires HUGE HUGE compressors. Fueling to 3,000 PSI on these buses would take much longer than filling a bus up with diesel that drove the same distance. Also, CNG compressors tend to fail a lot more than a diesel pump. CNG compressors require lots of electricity to operate.

CNG engines do blow up and require overhauls. Their turbos go out. They can overheat because they run hotter than diesel engines.

CNG works well for things like UPS and buses which have a planned route and home base where a large compressor house can be stored. For the public, there is still lots of work that needs to be done. Commercial over-the-road trucking LOL! Not going to happen for a loooooooong time.

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't think we were really talking about over the road trucking at all.... but more like the possibility of a CNG passenger vehicle like a Civic or Camry.

[G. David Felt]

I don't think we were really talking about over the road trucking at all.... but more like the possibility of a CNG passenger vehicle like a Civic or Camry.

First off just to clear things up, Trucks & Buses use totally different cng system compare to a car, truck or suv that is now available. Whilte trucks/buses tend to be turbo charged converted engines. New CNG Built motors tend to be Direct injection, none turbo engines with long life.

2nd thing, I have just picked up my own CNG Fueling station Distributorship and as such have been on a crash course of learning a ton about CNG auto.

Unlike Trucks or Buses of old, the industry has standardized on 3600PSI fueling. This has been found to be the best for compressing natural gas into Liquid or Compressed Natural Gas. Paccar has now also standardized on 3600PSI. The new CNG busses used here in Seattle also are now standardized on 3600PSI. Older 3000PSI is still found on the east coast and Canada.

Natural gas is lighter than Petrol and much safer since it evaporates much faster than gas and even under high pressure, will dissapate and not affect the enviornement compared to Petrol.

Reasons for the Engines to last 4 times longer than Petrol is how hot and clean they run. With 130 octane, a small block GM motor running CNG burns very clean ending up with virtually no gumming of the interior of the motor. Synthetic lubrication is a requirement for this long life of the engines.

The tanks have 25yr certification life before retesting. Tanks are required to handle 25K PSI pressure so you really do not have to worry about being in an accident as tanks rarely ever blow. Also they have shut off valves so that in an accident, the tank full of liquid Natural Gas is shut off at the tank protecting people from fire.

Fueling comes in multiple options depending on what you want to pay.

CNG Fueling stations in Seattle are instant fill no different than Petrol. Oregon and California are the same. They have a compression system that fills the holding tanks and so when you stop by to fill up, it is just as fast as petrol to fill up your tanks.

In regards to Home or business use, there are 4 models offered. BRC the Italian manufacture who is the only certified EPA approved Fueling systems for home and business use start with the following:

PHILL unit that fuels at .5 GGE per hour. Just plug in the auto and let if fill over night. This unit is installed in your garage.

FMQ in 2 models is 1.5 or 3 GGE per hour. Again just plug in the auto and let if fill. This unit is installed only outside. Has up to two filling hoses, so two Auto's fueling each at 1.5 or 3 GGE's per hour.

Big Q fueling system 3.5GGE per hour, Has remote filling point, up to 4 connections at one time, each connection at 3.5 GGE.

Both FMQ and Big Q can be installed with Holding tank so that you can have you system be an instant fill system just like a commercial fueling point.

I also will be selling the commercial fueling stations.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Edited May 18, 2012 by dfelt

[Drew Dowdell]

What is the typical electricity usage for a home CNG generator?

[G. David Felt]

What is the typical electricity usage for a home CNG generator?

The industry calls these units CNG Fueling Stations, even the small Phill unit that goes on your garage wall is a Home Fueling Station.

The phill units use traditional 110 outlet.

The FMQ and Big Q require a 220 connection.

I am at my job, so I do not off the top of my head remember what the expected cost is per year to run the system, but over all it was not very expensive and when you compare to the fuel savings it was still awesome.

Edited May 18, 2012 by dfelt

[Drew Dowdell]

Yeah, I don't doubt it would be cheap. Even just charging a Volt every day for a full charge won't increase your electric bill more than $50 a month. I was just curious... it does need to be factored into the costs.

[G. David Felt]

Yeah, I don't doubt it would be cheap. Even just charging a Volt every day for a full charge won't increase your electric bill more than $50 a month. I was just curious... it does need to be factored into the costs.

Yes that is one of the things I am working on building is ROI for the various cars with the various Fueling Stations and estimated electrical cost. This way people can compare.

With the US having such large reserves, if we could only get people to move over to CNG we could truly stop the outflow of money for oil to terrorist counteries.

[Drew Dowdell]

Yeah, I don't doubt it would be cheap. Even just charging a Volt every day for a full charge won't increase your electric bill more than $50 a month. I was just curious... it does need to be factored into the costs.

Yes that is one of the things I am working on building is ROI for the various cars with the various Fueling Stations and estimated electrical cost. This way people can compare.

With the US having such large reserves, if we could only get people to move over to CNG we could truly stop the outflow of money for oil to terrorist counteries.

I'm not sure our Canadian members would appreciate you calling them terrorists....

[Justin Bimmer]

Jalop just wrote about CNG today

http://jalopnik.com/5911513/why-we-arent-driving-natural-gas-powered-cars

[G. David Felt]

Yeah, I don't doubt it would be cheap. Even just charging a Volt every day for a full charge won't increase your electric bill more than $50 a month. I was just curious... it does need to be factored into the costs.

Yes that is one of the things I am working on building is ROI for the various cars with the various Fueling Stations and estimated electrical cost. This way people can compare.

With the US having such large reserves, if we could only get people to move over to CNG we could truly stop the outflow of money for oil to terrorist counteries.

I'm not sure our Canadian members would appreciate you calling them terrorists....

True, sorry Canada, I forgot to exclude you from the oil terrorist of the world.

Course if they get their pipeline to the gulf and then ship it over seas to higher prices, then the US is screwed again. Right now we should build the refineries by the border and then truck the finished product around the NE & NW corners.

Maybe we should put all the speculators in that group too.

Edited May 18, 2012 by dfelt

[Camino LS6]

Clean is an understatement when it comes to gaseous fuels in cars, your oil never gets dirty, there is no varnish buildup in the fuel system, spark plugs don't turn black. That's why the engines last so long.

[SAmadei]

Clean is an understatement when it comes to gaseous fuels in cars, your oil never gets dirty, there is no varnish buildup in the fuel system, spark plugs don't turn black. That's why the engines last so long.

And I can personally vouch for this on the slant 6 on the CNG genset. Clean as new, 24 years after being put into service.

[SAmadei]

The tanks have 25yr certification life before retesting. Tanks are required to handle 25K PSI pressure so you really do not have to worry about being in an accident as tanks rarely ever blow.

The tanks can be retested? How much does that cost and where can it be done? The cost of expiring/expired tanks is so low that I thought retesting was not available... only replacement.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

How long did station refilling take, compared to gasoline?

[G. David Felt]

The tanks have 25yr certification life before retesting. Tanks are required to handle 25K PSI pressure so you really do not have to worry about being in an accident as tanks rarely ever blow.

The tanks can be retested? How much does that cost and where can it be done? The cost of expiring/expired tanks is so low that I thought retesting was not available... only replacement.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

How long did station refilling take, compared to gasoline?

So if you look above I do cover the fueling times per type of home/business fueling stations. From .5GGE per hour to 3.5GGE per hour. Now except for the base level on your garage wall fueling system PHILL, all others can have holding tanks. This allows Instant fueing at home just like a CNG or Petrol Fuel Station which is instant. CNG and Petrol take about the same amount of time for filling. Just need to have the CNG Holding tank to hold the compressed NG.

In regards to retesting, you will have to check for your local state, I am not sure if all states allow retesting or not. West coast does seem to do this as in washington you can go to a certified CNG shop and get your tanks retested and certified again.

One thing that is becoming more popular is that with new tank construction, people are going away from the traditional large circle tank to ones that fit up in the frames more custome being built of multiple smaller tanks to take advantage of the fram layout. GM did this with their Commercial CNG Vans and get much large CNG holding capacity due to using multiple various size tanks to fill a rectangular area.

I am only guessing now, but I suspect as more types of materials get approved to hold CNG, we will see better advances in tank design. Not much different than Petrol tanks.

[G. David Felt]

NORTHWEST CNG LLC

Yup, I pulled the trigger and picked up the Distributorship for BRC Fuelmaker CNG Fueling Stations.

I am going to do my part for getting us off oil and onto US Natural Gas.

Northwest CNG LLC

www.nwcng.com

[email protected]

206-947-5801

So my web site was a quick build, I am working on a much better detailed site to be up in the near future. Already doing qoutes as Washington State has given all Gov Agencies from state, county, city and colleges till 2016 to change all gov auto's to one of 3 choices: Electrical, BioFuel or CNG.

I felt this was the right time to make a career change. Wish me luck!

New Project is to convert my Trailblazer SS to run on CNG

[Camino LS6]

Oh so very cool!

Congrats!

[ocnblu]

Hearty congratulations, Mr. dfelt! I hope it works out perfectly for you.

[Z-06]

Here is a study I found about emissions comparisons of CNG vs. Diesel performed in Europe:

This study on the emission performance of both diesel and CNG buses was linked to a comprehensive national program on bus emissions carried out by VTT Processes in Finland. For emission testing of buses VTT is using a 2.5 meter dia. dynamic chassis dynamometer and a full flow constant volume sampler (CVS) system. VTT has been granted accreditation for its emission and fuel consumption measurements of heavyduty vehicles.

For the CNG section of the study, seven European vehicles, three diesel buses and four natural gas buses were evaluated for dynamic emission performance. All vehicles were model year 2002...2004 vehicles in prime condition. The diesel buses represented Euro 3 technology with electronically controlled injection. The exhaust after-treatment options were without exhaust after-treatment, with oxidation catalyst, and with continuously regenerating trap (CRT) (particle filter) particulate filter installed by the original equipment manufacturer (OEM). The diesel fuel used was ultra-low sulphur diesel. All CNG vehicles were equipped with catalysts, and the emission certification ranged from Euro 3 to enhanced environmentally friendly vehicle (EEV).

For the evaluation of emissions, two dynamic duty cycles were used, the European Braunschweig and the US Orange County cycle. The list of emission components evaluated is comprehensive, including regulated emissions, unregulated gaseous components, chemical composition of particles, and even particle number and mass size distributions.

The results demonstrate that regarding particle mass and number emissions, the CNG vehicles, on average, are equivalent to CRT filter equipped diesel vehicles. The particle matter (PM) emissions of both CRT diesel and CNG vehicles were some two orders of magnitude lower compared with the baseline diesel engine. No abnormity could be found regarding the numbers of nanoparticles emitted from CNG vehicles. The formaldehyde emission of the catalyst equipped CNG vehicles was low, as well as the emission of polyaromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) components. The genotoxicity of CNG emissions was extremely low, determined by the Ames mutagenicity tests and calculated as a reference value per unit of driven distance. As for NOx emissions, CNG vehicles provide similar or superior emission performance, depending on the emission certification class.

The results for the unregulated emissions from this study are in conflict with some US studies showing high toxicity for natural gas exhaust. One explanation is that US natural gas vehicles normally are not equipped with catalysts, whereas all European manufacturers use exhaust after-treatment and sophisticated fuel injection on heavyduty natural gas vehicles.

[G. David Felt]

Here is a study I found about emissions comparisons of CNG vs. Diesel performed in Europe:

This study on the emission performance of both diesel and CNG buses was linked to a comprehensive national program on bus emissions carried out by VTT Processes in Finland. For emission testing of buses VTT is using a 2.5 meter dia. dynamic chassis dynamometer and a full flow constant volume sampler (CVS) system. VTT has been granted accreditation for its emission and fuel consumption measurements of heavyduty vehicles.

For the CNG section of the study, seven European vehicles, three diesel buses and four natural gas buses were evaluated for dynamic emission performance. All vehicles were model year 2002...2004 vehicles in prime condition. The diesel buses represented Euro 3 technology with electronically controlled injection. The exhaust after-treatment options were without exhaust after-treatment, with oxidation catalyst, and with continuously regenerating trap (CRT) (particle filter) particulate filter installed by the original equipment manufacturer (OEM). The diesel fuel used was ultra-low sulphur diesel. All CNG vehicles were equipped with catalysts, and the emission certification ranged from Euro 3 to enhanced environmentally friendly vehicle (EEV).

For the evaluation of emissions, two dynamic duty cycles were used, the European Braunschweig and the US Orange County cycle. The list of emission components evaluated is comprehensive, including regulated emissions, unregulated gaseous components, chemical composition of particles, and even particle number and mass size distributions.

The results demonstrate that regarding particle mass and number emissions, the CNG vehicles, on average, are equivalent to CRT filter equipped diesel vehicles. The particle matter (PM) emissions of both CRT diesel and CNG vehicles were some two orders of magnitude lower compared with the baseline diesel engine. No abnormity could be found regarding the numbers of nanoparticles emitted from CNG vehicles. The formaldehyde emission of the catalyst equipped CNG vehicles was low, as well as the emission of polyaromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) components. The genotoxicity of CNG emissions was extremely low, determined by the Ames mutagenicity tests and calculated as a reference value per unit of driven distance. As for NOx emissions, CNG vehicles provide similar or superior emission performance, depending on the emission certification class.

The results for the unregulated emissions from this study are in conflict with some US studies showing high toxicity for natural gas exhaust. One explanation is that US natural gas vehicles normally are not equipped with catalysts, whereas all European manufacturers use exhaust after-treatment and sophisticated fuel injection on heavyduty natural gas vehicles.

Very interesting study, thank you for posting it.

I do find the quote about the US also interesting considering that converted auto's tend to have no emissions, but CNG auto's built and sold by the actual auto companies do have emissions controls. Guess they learned from Europe.

[Z-06]

I have another one from India as well, basically stating the same conclusions. As far as gasoline is concerned the CNG data was compared for two stroke engines, which are dirtier than modern four strokes.

[riviera74]

If you really want to get the USA off of foreigh oil, convert at least the civilian fleet of vehicles (federal, state, and local) to CNG. While you're at it, get the US military to do the same (except when nuclear makes more sense). That way, at least our government can do its part to reduce our trade deficit and budget deficits. (Not to mention stop shipping cash to terrorist-friendly regimes in the Middle East!)

[Drew Dowdell]

NORTHWEST CNG LLC

Yup, I pulled the trigger and picked up the Distributorship for BRC Fuelmaker CNG Fueling Stations.

I am going to do my part for getting us off oil and onto US Natural Gas.

Northwest CNG LLC

www.nwcng.com

[email protected]

206-947-5801

So my web site was a quick build, I am working on a much better detailed site to be up in the near future. Already doing qoutes as Washington State has given all Gov Agencies from state, county, city and colleges till 2016 to change all gov auto's to one of 3 choices: Electrical, BioFuel or CNG.

I felt this was the right time to make a career change. Wish me luck!

New Project is to convert my Trailblazer SS to run on CNG

When you're ready to do some online advertising :-)

[G. David Felt]

NORTHWEST CNG LLC

Yup, I pulled the trigger and picked up the Distributorship for BRC Fuelmaker CNG Fueling Stations.

I am going to do my part for getting us off oil and onto US Natural Gas.

Northwest CNG LLC

www.nwcng.com

[email protected]

206-947-5801

So my web site was a quick build, I am working on a much better detailed site to be up in the near future. Already doing qoutes as Washington State has given all Gov Agencies from state, county, city and colleges till 2016 to change all gov auto's to one of 3 choices: Electrical, BioFuel or CNG.

I felt this was the right time to make a career change. Wish me luck!

New Project is to convert my Trailblazer SS to run on CNG

When you're ready to do some online advertising :-)

Yes, Once I get everything setup and my web site fully built, then I would love to put up some advertising here.