Aucun secteur de l'Automobile

[Blake Noble]

Out with February, out with winter, out with the Challenger.

I will not be seeking an immediate replacement. The used car market in my area is a non-stop barrage of overpriced and high-mileage junk. Yesterday's retail prices have become today's wholesale values. Four-grand will only buy you an unlovable, worn out sedan or SUV with near or at 200,000 miles, a mange-riddled paint job, an arthritic suspension, and a catatonic engine. If you're really lucky, four-grand more will buy you a cramped compact sedan with 70,000 miles that's been built out of pure tapioca and subjected to a previous life of hardcore prostitution. If by the grace of God a realistic deal comes your way on something you could learn to live with, the dealer won't do business with you because you have a trade, have to finance with your co-signer, and can't pay for the difference in cash — it is tax season right now, after all, and he knows someone soon will pay the price for his shiny piece of inventory with real green.

I refuse to derogate myself to owning and using what very little amount of money I have left to buy an unsatisfying hum-drum car or one that's beyond broken. Simple fact: there isn't a single reasonably affordable interesting car on the used market right now. What's out there compels me to totally forget about owning a car anymore, to be completely honest. Horrifically sad but blatantly true. The bureaucrats and anti-auto hate groups have won again; I will become one less driver under the age of twenty-five on the highway. I am no longer free; I am now a prisoner of my own home; I now have a narrow, limited future. I now have to beg for the hospitality of others; I now have to borrow cars; I now have to ask for a ride. I can now forget about going to college; I can forget about finding work.

Winter may be on it's way out, but I'll still be left in the cold for many months — maybe even years — to come.

Oh well. I tried. I'm sure this may sound like a bunch of melodramatic banter and I suppose that's mostly right about the latter half of this post. But I've had to let go of the only car I really felt I belonged in, that I felt suited my personality and made a statement about it and my individuality. I only had it for a year, but it grew to be a part of me. It's going to take a lot of time and more than some Chevroyota Civrolla to fill the two-ton hole it's left behind.

Edited February 19, 2012 by black-knight

[SAmadei]

No notes on the Challenger's disposition? Thats OK... we'll just assume you set it on fire in a parking lot, Breaking Bad-style.

[ocnblu]

Hopefully you sold it and paid off the loan with a little left over and did not allow the bank take it back.

The worst part of this post is not the Challenger Disaster, but the decision not to return to school. I really hope that is a temporary situation. Is there a minibus anywhere that can be hopped to get you there?

Giving up is not an option!

[Turbojett]

Hopefully you sold it and paid off the loan with a little left over and did not allow the bank take it back.

The worst part of this post is not the Challenger Disaster, but the decision not to return to school. I really hope that is a temporary situation. Is there a minibus anywhere that can be hopped to get you there?

Giving up is not an option!

I remember considering two part-time jobs just to pay for school, and trying to work out scheduling to allow two p/t jobs and full time school. I ended up taking a "hiatus" of my own to pay for school that turned out to be indefinite. I really need to get back to school myself.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Turbojett

[Jeeagle]

Out with February, out with winter, out with the Challenger.

I will not be seeking an immediate replacement. The used car market in my area is a non-stop barrage of overpriced and high-mileage junk. Yesterday's retail prices have become today's wholesale values. Four-grand will only buy you an unlovable, worn out sedan or SUV with near or at 200,000 miles, a mange-riddled paint job, an arthritic suspension, and a catatonic engine. If you're really lucky, four-grand more will buy you a cramped compact sedan with 70,000 miles that's been built out of pure tapioca and subjected to a previous life of hardcore prostitution. If by the grace of God a realistic deal comes your way on something you could learn to live with, the dealer won't do business with you because you have a trade, have to finance with your co-signer, and can't pay for the difference in cash — it is tax season right now, after all, and he knows someone soon will pay the price for his shiny piece of inventory with real green.

I refuse to derogate myself to owning and using what very little amount of money I have left to buy an unsatisfying hum-drum car or one that's beyond broken. Simple fact: there isn't a single reasonably affordable interesting car on the used market right now. What's out there compels me to totally forget about owning a car anymore, to be completely honest. Horrifically sad but blatantly true. The bureaucrats and anti-auto hate groups have won again; I will become one less driver under the age of twenty-five on the highway. I am no longer free; I am now a prisoner of my own home; I now have a narrow, limited future. I now have to beg for the hospitality of others; I now have to borrow cars; I now have to ask for a ride. I can now forget about going to college; I can forget about finding work.

Winter may be on it's way out, but I'll still be left in the cold for many months — maybe even years — to come.

Oh well. I tried. I'm sure this may sound like a bunch of melodramatic banter and I suppose that's mostly right about the latter half of this post. But I've had to let go of the only car I really felt I belonged in, that I felt suited my personality and made a statement about it and my individuality. I only had it for a year, but it grew to be a part of me. It's going to take a lot of time and more than some Chevroyota Civrolla to fill the two-ton hole it's left behind.

I do not know much about you or what your exact predicament is, but the above highlighted pretty much says alot. Seems your saying your too good to drive some "low-life ho-hum" car. So maybe you should just go buy some "High-Life" shoes and walk to wherever you need going since you cannot "derogate" yourself from such placment you are accustom to.. As much of a Auto enthusiast I am, I understand the basic principle of the automobile. Transportation, getting your butt from one area to another. I drive a Eagle Vision and a Jeep Cherokee respectively and while they may not be the excitement I long for, I sure as heck get my moneys worth out of them. They may not be the cars to be "seen" in but they do their job and do it well. Beats walking or sticking my thumb out.

And for what it is worth, the 1993 Eagle was bought in 2005 for 1K with 108,000 miles. Now in 2012 it has 201K miles and runs better than when I got it. My 1997 Jeep was a gift, mostly given to me so it would not sit and slowly die. Both cars over time have had many factory upgrades, modifications, and the absolute snot beat out of them. Don't need a mountain of debt I blame the government on, to enjoy daily my commute.

Perhaps you have forgotten, it isn't truly not what you drive, but how you drive it.

[Blake Noble]

I do not know much about you or what your exact predicament is, but the above highlighted pretty much says alot. Seems your saying your too good to drive some "low-life ho-hum" car. So maybe you should just go buy some "High-Life" shoes and walk to wherever you need going since you cannot "derogate" yourself from such placment you are accustom to.

I've already posted my rebuttal. From the last paragraph of the original post:

I'm sure this may sound like a bunch of melodramatic banter and I suppose that's mostly right about the latter half of this post. But I've had to let go of the only car I really felt I belonged in, that I felt suited my personality and made a statement about it and my individuality. I only had it for a year, but it grew to be a part of me. It's going to take a lot of time and more than some Chevroyota Civrolla to fill the two-ton hole it's left behind.

As much of a Auto enthusiast I am, I understand the basic principle of the automobile. Transportation, getting your butt from one area to another. I drive a Eagle Vision and a Jeep Cherokee respectively and while they may not be the excitement I long for, I sure as heck get my moneys worth out of them. They may not be the cars to be "seen" in but they do their job and do it well. Beats walking or sticking my thumb out.

And for what it is worth, the 1993 Eagle was bought in 2005 for 1K with 108,000 miles. Now in 2012 it has 201K miles and runs better than when I got it. My 1997 Jeep was a gift, mostly given to me so it would not sit and slowly die. Both cars over time have had many factory upgrades, modifications, and the absolute snot beat out of them. Don't need a mountain of debt I blame the government on, to enjoy daily my commute.

Perhaps you have forgotten, it isn't truly not what you drive, but how you drive it.

I want to make one thing absolutely clear — my rants about what’s out there to buy on the used car market today are not meant to be taken as insults to what you or anyone else drives. I'm not saying any one is taking them personal, but it sure seems that way.

You can bet good money that I'd never turn down the opportunity to give any nice, clean, good-running Jeep a loving home for free. I also wouldn't pass up a good, clean LH car with less than 110,000 miles for a grand either. However, my luck hasn't permitted me to own a nice, free Jeep or decent mileage, good condition car for only a grand. In fact, the current state of the used car market prohibits any chance of that.

I don't know. That's about all I have to say, other than I'll find someway to get back into college and I appreciate any earlier concern.

I guess this post can be childishly marked down below the negative vote threshold now, since that's the way my posts always wind up in these threads of mine. If I weren't up and actually heartbroken last night, I wouldn't have bothered with this thread to begin with for that very reason.

Edited February 20, 2012 by black-knight

[FAPTurbo]

There's no bureaucracy and there's no 'anti-auto hate group' conspiracy. There's just a string of bad financial decisions and hard luck. But if you stick to your guns, you can be back in the seat of a Challenger in due time.

Is there no way at all to start a semester of college in the summer? I didn't just go into journalism from the get-go. I built up a base of credits in the summer and applied them to the program when the fall semester started. It has lessened the load considerably. Find out what non-journalism courses are required, like Poli-Sci and Econ 101. General classes like that run every semester and you can likely catch them in the summer.

What I also did was take mechanics. I have full motorcycle technician training behind me. If you aim to do automotive journalism, see if you can find something that pertains to the category. Something like a mechanics or even a body-work or painting course. It gives you a leg-up in two ways: a) you show the school you're serious about your goals; b) you have something you can use if you don't make it in the first time.

And seriously, find yourself the White Accord. If you crave handling and RWD thrills, get a ~600cc motorcycle for cheaps and insure it for the spring/summer, then insure the car for the fall/winter.

[fullmoon97]

i am truly sorry that you lost a car that you really enjoyed and was actually a good car. but at the same time i find it hard to be sympathetic. you and me are the same age. ive been driving since i was 16 owned a car since i was 18 from 16 to 21(in 2 months) i have owned 1 car. from what i understand you have owned 7 or 8 cars? this sounds like poor choices were made along the way. ones that could have been fixed. i went into college right out of high school and tried to ensure my future before spending big on big deal cars. you and me cant be picky about the car we get. listen to Pervez try and find some classes try to set a future for yourself before you spend money you don't have. the amazing thing about classes is after you finish a couple you can start doing an internship, and internships are the doorways into jobs, jobs = money, and money = nice things. just trying to help.

[the_yellow_dart]

Agreed fullmoon. I think American culture still relies too heavily on using borrowed money. The recession scared that out of some people, but not all.

I am personally quite debt-phobic. For example, I would never put something on my credit card that I didn't actually have the money to pay for.

[Justin Bimmer]

What about Junior College? Much less money to get your GE credits done and they also could have summer classes.

You should also check out http://www.cargurus.com/ that site gives you an idea of how expensive the car is compared to the market, how long it has been on the market etc. It was very helpful when I was looking at used cars before I leased my Regal.

[Justin Bimmer]

http://cargur.us/4flC

1999 Chrysler 300M 4 Dr STD Sedan - $2,995

192,000 miles

http://cargur.us/4flP

1996 Chrysler LHS 4 Dr STD Sedan - $3,200

142,000 miles

[G. David Felt]

I totally agree, people should save up and then if they want to use a special credit card to purchase a vehicle so they get their miles or cash back % and then pay it off at the end of the month.

People do need to learn to be better with managing money and living within their budget.

My parents allways told me and my sisters, save up and buy something a bit better than you normally would so it will last longer than normal and in the long run reduce your costs.

Cars are the worst investment, yet if done properly, they can last a very long time. I still have my 94 suburban.

[Blake Noble]

http://cargur.us/4flC

1999 Chrysler 300M 4 Dr STD Sedan - $2,995

192,000 miles

http://cargur.us/4flP

1996 Chrysler LHS 4 Dr STD Sedan - $3,200

142,000 miles

I appreciate the links, Mr. Bond. I'm giving CarGurus a whirl. Not a bad way to search for a car.

But, yikes — $3,000 large for a 13 year old car with almost 200,000 miles? That's exactly what I'm so outraged about.

EDIT: Here's something I didn't even consider. I have a relative who works for a local insurance firm and they hold auctions on vehicles they've taken in on claim and repaired as needed. They helped an uncle of mine buy a decent 100,000 mile Olds Intrigue with leather and power everything for under a grand not that long ago. Hmmm ...

Edited February 23, 2012 by black-knight

[Justin Bimmer]

There is always home. Car Gurus has been recognized by the NY Times and other places as a valuable tool.

[Intrepidation]

Mileage has little bearing on the condition of a car. How it was taken car of does. Your fixation on "low mileage" is what's holding you back.

If the 300M, for example, had its timing belt and waterpump replaced withing the last 50k miles it'll be good for another 58k. That's the only major component those cars generally need at that age.

[fullmoon97]

i think you are missing the point of our advice. MILEAGE DON'T MEAN NOTHING. all mileage means is you may have the occasional repair to do every now and then. if you actually fix the car instead of toss it out at every sputter you will save money believe it or not. here is the bottom line. you wanna save money? BUY USED no matter the mileage all you have to know is was it well kept. i know cars that are OVER 200k but are in better condition then a garage kept with 95k its all about who owned it and if you can see signs that it may have not been taken care of then you don't buy the car. buying used isnt as hard as people make it to be.

[z28luvr01]

http://www.cheersandgears.com/topic/78466-78-88/

[Blake Noble]

Let's get another thing straight here, I'm not exactly expecting an outright stupid low mileage car for pennies on the dollar.

Yes, I am a little hung up on buying something with as reasonable mileage as possible for the money. I have a very, very good reason for that. Hang in here with me for a little bit.

I'm aware that a car with 150,000 miles that came from a loving home might offer less nightmares and headaches than the exact same car with just 75,000 miles that was chained up and beaten everyday of its life.

I’m also aware of the condition of the used car market right now. I’m not the only person out there who thinks it’s experiencing a price bubble. In fact, there were plenty people who started saying that last year. Yeah, demand is up and supply is bad. So what? We are reaching the point where a good used car with a reasonable amount of mileage only costs hundreds — not thousands — less than it’s brand new counterpart.

I’ll give you an example. My dad’s in the market for a new truck right now and he’s looked at a few Ram 1500 Express regular cab trucks. The Ram Express comes standard with a Hemi V8 and the one he’s liked the best also had upgraded chrome rims, premium cloth interior, four-wheel drive, and factory chrome running boards. The total cost of that truck? About $20,000 out the door with all applicable incentives, not including his trade. He also looked at a used four-wheel drive 2010 Ram 1500 ST with 13,000 miles, no Hemi V8, no premium cloth seats, no upgraded wheels, none of the extras that particular Express offered. Price of that truck? About $19,000 grand out the door, not including his trade.

Remind me how buying the used truck would pay off again considering it’s two model years older? Don’t forget that also means it only has a year’s worth of bumper-to-bumper warranty left whereas the new truck still has new truck warranty.

Trust me, we’ll see the day arrive very soon where the price bubble pops and people will buy used cars less and less. A surge of used cars will be traded in for new cars because the savings of new versus used won’t amount to much in the long haul. The demand for used cars will be very low at that point and with low demand comes low prices as dealers try to push an overwhelming amount of used inventory out the door. And that's just the tip of the iceburg.

That brings me back to the two cars mentioned earlier. If you could buy the 75,000 mile car for the same amount of money it would take to buy the 150,000 mile car, which one is guaranteed to be almost worth what you paid for it no matter what the market looks like, regardless if you have to spend a few hundred dollars doing a few things the previous owner overlooked in the back of the manual?

That’s why I’m reluctant to spend $3,000 dollars, $4,000 dollars, or $5,000 dollars on a car with 200,000 miles. It’s a horrible, stupid investment at those prices, especially considering the market doesn’t have long-term stability in its current condition. It doesn’t matter if it could be a better car than a lower mileage example or that I plan on keeping it as a beater after I get back on my feet and buy that white Challenger R/T I really want, a bad investment is a bad investment.

Who knows? I may eventually find myself in another bind for money and have to sell this next whatever-it-is I’ll buy. Knowing my poor luck, if I bought a 200,000 mile car for $4,000 and had to sell it under pressing circumstances, the demand for used cars would be taking a nosedive about the same time I’d have to get rid of it. That means I’d wind up selling my outrageously priced high-mileage car for little more than scrap and I’d be making new threads on here bitching about making another bad investment. Then more white Accords get posted, I miss the point and bitch about that, you bitch back at me about missing the point, and the same old cycle repeats over and over.

I would only feel comfortable buying a 200,000 mile car if it were priced somewhere around $1,500 bucks. But even then I’d probably prefer just to wait for a better deal to come along, even if it meant I would be spending $500 more and looking for the day for hell to freeze over. Right now, all I have on my hands is a little bit of time and little bit of money, so why not wait if it might pay off somehow in the long haul?

Oh, shi — I was saving a majority of that info for an editorial. Oh well. In the meantime, I'm going to look into those insurance auctions, just because.

Edited February 23, 2012 by black-knight

[z28luvr01]

Dude, this one's right in your backyard.

[Blake Noble]

Dude, this one's right in your backyard.

That might be worth pursuing. I might e-mail the guy and see where it's at. Call it a hunch, but I think it might just be right down the road from me.

My insurance firm connection is also checking around for any Jeeps that are on auction.

[G. David Felt]

Good Luck

[GMTruckGuy74]

black-knight, I'm with you on the used car price bubble needing to pop.

Here's an example of what I'm seeing that I think is crazy: http://southjersey.craigslist.org/ctd/2865710733.html and http://www.villagegreenauto.com/94gmc.html

An 18 year-old truck with 239k miles for almost $6,000... are they fracking nuts??? Of course it looks like it's in great condition based on the pictures and video, but looks can be deceiving. A truck like that used to sell for $2,000 tops, but with the current used car demand everyone is trying to cash in as long as they can.

Wait until the $5/gallon gas prices hit... used car prices may take a dive then. Just exactly how are new car sales going to increase if the used market continues this upward climb???

[SAmadei]

That’s why I’m reluctant to spend $3,000 dollars, $4,000 dollars, or $5,000 dollars on a car with 200,000 miles. It’s a horrible, stupid investment at those prices, especially considering the market doesn’t have long-term stability in its current condition. It doesn’t matter if it could be a better car than a lower mileage example or that I plan on keeping it as a beater after I get back on my feet and buy that white Challenger R/T I really want, a bad investment is a bad investment.

I would only feel comfortable buying a 200,000 mile car if it were priced somewhere around $1,500 bucks.

This is why I recommend the $750~1000 Grandma-fresh 180K Olds Cieras/Buick Centurys that pop up every so often.

Conveniently none online right now, but there is a Lumina... http://lexington.craigslist.org/cto/2847839665.html

You even have a decent RWD cars for sale nearby... http://lexington.craigslist.org/cto/2862081817.html http://lexington.craigslist.org/cto/2865708759.html

And for low mileage... 82K, http://lexington.craigslist.org/cto/2852034744.html

I see lots of sub-1500 Jeeps, too.

[Blake Noble]

black-knight, I'm with you on the used car price bubble needing to pop.

Here's an example of what I'm seeing that I think is crazy: http://southjersey.c...2865710733.html and http://www.villagegr....com/94gmc.html

An 18 year-old truck with 239k miles for almost $6,000... are they fracking nuts??? Of course it looks like it's in great condition based on the pictures and video, but looks can be deceiving. A truck like that used to sell for $2,000 tops, but with the current used car demand everyone is trying to cash in as long as they can.

I almost have that GMC beat.

I took a truck-shopping trip with my dad earlier today and we stumbled across a four-wheel drive 2006 Chevrolet Silverado. The condition of the truck was pathetic; the interior reeked of cigarette smoke, old sweat, and stale farts; the exterior was marred with adhesive residue, random pock-marks, and deep scratches; the engine idled pretty lumpy. I understood why it was in the shape it was in, though, when I looked at the odometer and it read it had almost 181,000 miles.

The price was a real punch in the gut. You might think you'd pay about $5,000 to $7,000 grand for a truck like that. Guess again. The dealer wanted damn near $13,000 grand.

Wait until the $5/gallon gas prices hit... used car prices may take a dive then.

Gas prices will just make prices of used trucks, SUVs, and large cars take a nose dive. When gas prices go up, so do the prices of small used cars.

Just exactly how are new car sales going to increase if the used market continues this upward climb???

Like I said, as the monetary gap between new and used rapidly closes, you will see more and more people buying new cars versus used ones when they are ready to make a purchase. No one will buy a used vehicle without a warranty and high mileage when it's only a few hundred dollars difference between it and it's brand-new counterpart.

Again, it's just the tip of the iceburg. I'll discuss the other factors when I'm finished with my editorial.

Edited February 24, 2012 by black-knight

[ocnblu]

Iceburg? Where's that?

[Blake Noble]

Well, as an American, my genetics prevent me from pointing out precise locations on a map. However, if I had to make a guess, I'd say somewhere between Greenland and Idaho.

(i made a lot of typos yesterday and i feel bad now)

Edited February 24, 2012 by black-knight

[GMTruckGuy74]

black-knight, that's just a shame about that '06 SIlverado. The real shame is that someone is going to buy that truck at some point too.

[G. David Felt]

I almost have that GMC beat.

I took a truck-shopping trip with my dad earlier today and we stumbled across a four-wheel drive 2006 Chevrolet Silverado. The condition of the truck was pathetic; the interior reeked of cigarette smoke, old sweat, and stale farts; the exterior was marred with adhesive residue, random pock-marks, and deep scratches; the engine idled pretty lumpy. I understood why it was in the shape it was in, though, when I looked at the odometer and it read it had almost 181,000 miles.

The price was a real punch in the gut. You might think you'd pay about $5,000 to $7,000 grand for a truck like that. Guess again. The dealer wanted damn near $13,000 grand.

WOW, That is freakin amazing they would try to charge that much for such a clunker. Sad for the person who feels that is all they can afford and will not take the time to look around.

[Blake Noble]

I'm in one of "those moods" so I suppose I'll finally spill some info on what happened to the Challenger.

Remember on the previous page how I mentioned something about brand-new Ram 1500 Express pickups? It was traded in for one.

I know what you're thinking and the answer is no. It isn't my truck. It's my dad's.

Without going into precise monitary and financial specifics, he needed a new truck but he wasn't getting acceptable offers from dealers on his old truck and has been too busy lately to deal with the headaches of selling it privately for only a fraction more of additional money. I decided that, considering my situation and his, I would put my car on the table and use whatever money I had to the good in it (which, with the current market conditions turned out to be almost a thousand more than what I was expecting off the bat) towards the downpayment on whatever new truck he wanted.

Initially, he wasn't keen on that, but I insisted because, at the end of the day, it simply made sense for the both of us. He wound up chosing a black, two-wheel drive 2012 Ram 1500 Express with the 5.7 liter Hemi V8, 20" chrome rims, dual exhaust with chrome tips, and heated mirrors.

After thinking about it, he decided to give me his old truck, a 2002 Dakota. I'm free to do whatever I want with it, keep it or sell it. I haven't decided yet what do do with it. Although I very much appreciate his gesture, it's going to hard to feed it considering it has the 5.9L V8 and (excuse my near hypercritic nature) it has a long list of issues that I'm not sure are worth fixing. It's been rear-ended, the body is riddled with skin cancer, the electrical system is failing, the transfer case is broken, there's a peculiar, loud noise that emanates from somewhere underneath the truck that sounds like someone spinning an hand-cranked egg beater, the interior is starting to go, and the transmission is near incompetent.

We'll see what happens.

Edited March 1, 2012 by black-knight

[SAmadei]

Sounds like a good candidate to get your hands dirty on... just don't dump a lot of money into it... go junkyard all the way.

[Blake Noble]

It might be or might not be.

I'm not going to be in any hurry about making a decision.

[GMTruckGuy74]

That was very kind of you to help your dad out with his transportation needs. Being a big believer in Karma, I feel something good will eventually come your way

[Intrepidation]

Judging by the sounds of it, it's little surprise you dad wasn't getting a trade in offer he wanted. Regardless whether your keep it or sell it, getting things fixed up should definitely be done. A `02 in good shape will go for pretty good money (especially a 4WD Club or Quad Cab). Quick scan in my local CL shows them anywhere from 4-12 grand. On the flip side one that needs work goes for as little as $900.

[Blake Noble]

I spent a little time with the truck today. I think the transfer case issues could be electrical related (i.e. the switch next to the driver on the dash). Sometimes the indicator lights work properly and go from 2WD to 4HI to 4LO when you turn the switch, sometimes the 2WD light doesn't even come on. Sometimes you switch it from 2WD to 4HI and it doesn't go back into 2WD, sometimes you try to switch it out of 4HI into 4LO and it stays in 4HI.

I managed to fix a lot of the Cherokee's electrical quirks with a few good shots of contact cleaner, so maybe that could help things. If not, I'd say almost every switch in that truck is probably going to have to be replaced (electric windows, transfer case switch, headlight switch, and so on).

If replacing the transfer case switch doesn't fix the 4WD issues, it's probably a bad module or servo motor.

I also tidied up the interior a bit. It isn't quite the dirt and junk infested sty it used to be, but it's still kinda rough. It's hard to believe the truck is barely 10 years old with under 150,000 miles and the headliner is already falling down.

I'm still completely stumped about what that peculiar metallic spinning noise could be. It happens when the truck is building up steam to shift into second and again briefly when it shifts into third. As I said, the truck has transmission problems as well as a nasty intermittent driveline shudder around 45 to 50 mph as it turns out, so I wouldn't be suprised if it's somehow related.

The rear bumper took a good percentage of the impact from the rear collison, so it's pretty screwed. It was getting dark when I started checking around the rear frame of the truck, so I couldn't tell if there was any minor to moderate frame damage. The truck drove okay; no unusual rear-end noises, sway, or jumpiness. The tires also don't show any signs of unusual wear, either. I'll do some further investigation tomorrow morning.

That was very kind of you to help your dad out with his transportation needs. Being a big believer in Karma, I feel something good will eventually come your way

I very much appreicate the kind words, GMTG.

Edited March 4, 2012 by black-knight

[SAmadei]

We're waiting for photos...

[Blake Noble]

I'll try to have one or two up really soon.

Judging by the sounds of it, it's little surprise you dad wasn't getting a trade in offer he wanted. Regardless whether your keep it or sell it, getting things fixed up should definitely be done. A `02 in good shape will go for pretty good money (especially a 4WD Club or Quad Cab). Quick scan in my local CL shows them anywhere from 4-12 grand. On the flip side one that needs work goes for as little as $900.

He was getting trade offers well below $3,500. I started looking into the value of the truck today myself, and I could probably sell it as is for $3,000. Someone is selling a two-wheel drive version of this truck for $5,500 with new paint and only 89,000 miles in my area, so ... Here's the original listing and recent re-listing.

[z28luvr01]

I'm still completely stumped about what that peculiar metallic spinning noise could be. It happens when the truck is building up steam to shift into second and again briefly when it shifts into third. As I said, the truck has transmission problems as well as a nasty intermittent driveline shudder around 45 to 50 mph as it turns out, so I wouldn't be suprised if it's somehow related.

Sounds like it could be bad U-joints with that kind of age and mileage. Jack the truck up with the rear wheels in the air (in 2WD mode of course, and put it in drive. If it's the U-joints you'll probably hear some sort of squeak coming from the driveshaft. They're easy and cheap to replace.

That was a really nice thing you did for your dad.

[Blake Noble]

Here's the truck:

I fixed the electric windows. The driver's side switch panel was the main culprit. It's the same exact one Jeep used in the MCE Cherokee and they're known for using weak solder and that turned out to be the issue. It's intensive to tear the panel down to get into the dirty bits to resolder the connections on the PCB, but I managed to fix it without breaking anything. After that, I gave the connections a good shot of contact cleaner. Problem solved.

The transfer case issues are down to a servo motor that's gotten rusty from little to no use. The four-wheel drive works, but only if you know how to get the most out of what the servo motor has left to give.

The paint is still hopeless. In direct sunlight, I can see areas in which the clear coat will start to flake off come this summer.

The rear-end damage did get to the very back frame of the truck a bit and I noticed the tailgate oddly enough is bowed slightly outward, not inward as one would expect.

The paint and frame issues mean I will ultimately get rid of this truck and advertise it as something to go hunting in or for farm work. Aside from sorting out the smaller issues, it isn't worth investing too much money in.

Sounds like it could be bad U-joints with that kind of age and mileage. Jack the truck up with the rear wheels in the air (in 2WD mode of course, and put it in drive. If it's the U-joints you'll probably hear some sort of squeak coming from the driveshaft. They're easy and cheap to replace.

I was going to do this yesterday, but didn't get around to it. I think you could be right in that it's a bad u-joint, but while driving the truck today I noticed it's coming from around the driver's side footwell, so I'm still a little baffled.

As it turns out, the ball joints are going bad. At full-lock, the front suspension pops like a firecracker.

That was a really nice thing you did for your dad.

Thanks Z.

Edited March 9, 2012 by black-knight

[SAmadei]

The paint is still hopeless. In direct sunlight, I can see areas in which the clear coat will start to flake off come this summer.

POR15 the cancer and bondo it mercilessly... strip off as much flake as possible... seal it, prime it with spray cans and take it to Earl Scheib... or some other cheapo respray joint, considering that Earl Scheib has discontinued business as of 2010.

Sounds like it could be bad U-joints with that kind of age and mileage. Jack the truck up with the rear wheels in the air (in 2WD mode of course, and put it in drive. If it's the U-joints you'll probably hear some sort of squeak coming from the driveshaft. They're easy and cheap to replace.

I was going to do this yesterday, but didn't get around to it. I think you could be right in that it's a bad u-joint, but while driving the truck today I noticed it's coming from around the driver's side footwell, so I'm still a little baffled.

Personally, I don't like running a vehicle on a jack... and I've had some bad U-joints that were quite quiet. I would jack things up, put it in neutral and watch for play by turning the wheels forward and back. Sometimes I'll get in the U-joint with a crowbar and see how much it wants to move around.

I would jack the driver's side front end up and, again, with the crowbar, look for lose components and just generally shake things up as much as possible.

As it turns out, the ball joints are going bad. At full-lock, the front suspension pops like a firecracker.

That sounds like CV joints. You should be able to find junkyard CVs pretty easily. Of course, I've driven on trashed CVs for years without issue... Fragged CVs could also explain your mystery driver's side noise.

I test ball joints by looking at the wear indicator or by lifting up on the knuckle and seeing how much play there is. Lower balls support the weight and are usually the problem.