Cadillac News: Is There A Smaller Cadillac In Store?

[William Maley]

William Maley

Editor/Reporter - CheersandGears.com

February 12, 2012

The smallest Cadillac currently is the new ATS sedan. But that could be changing.

“The (compact) ATS sedan is not as small as we could go at Cadillac,” says Dave Leone, vehicle-line executive for the ATS. “The ATS is only the first entry. The ATS platform is scalable, so we could go smaller or larger.”

The ATS is 7.7 inches shorter than the CTS, but the platform could be scaled down even further, possibly spawing a competitor to the BMW 1-Series, Audi A3, and Mercedes A-Class.

Leone went onto to say, a smaller ATS would “a legitimate entry in the largest segment in the industry, the small, entry-level luxury market.”

Source: Wards Auto

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[ocnblu]

Pleased to hear no mention of Delta or Gamma in the article.

[Drew Dowdell]

to those who doubted that the Alpha could spawn a 2 seat roadster.....

[hyperv6]

In time we will see a small FWD Cadillac. If Benz and BMW are working on one you can be sure GM will have it too. These companies are running scared to the future.

The Alpha is much more flexible than many seem to want to understand. Might get the latest Car and Driver as they have a good under body shot of the new ATS.

[ocnblu]

I am hoping by some mackerel that Cadillac goes no smaller than a shortened Alpha.

Although that neu small Benz hatch in the spy vid is somewhat palatable...

[Robert Hall]

[ocnblu]

eewwwwwwww.....

[dwightlooi]

Smaller is not necessarily lighter. And, small and heavy does no one any good. The BMW 1-series is a good example. Much more cramped than a good deal uglier than the well proportioned 3-series, but a mere 50 lbs lighter because the load bearing structure is so similar that there were minimum weight savings from paring down the shrink wrap!

[Robert Hall]

Smaller is not necessarily lighter. And, small and heavy does no one any good. The BMW 1-series is a good example. Much more cramped than a good deal uglier than the well proportioned 3-series, but a mere 50 lbs lighter because the load bearing structure is so similar that there were minimum weight savings from paring down the shrink wrap!

i would expect the next 1-series to be lighter since it will be on a weak FWD platform.

[G. David Felt]

Leave the luxury to RWD and anything FWD to Chevy.

[67impss]

Thanx with that mentality Chevy becomes Toyota and sells Maytag's while ONLY the rich can have a RWD car no matter what the horse power.

Chevy value FULL line manufacturer. that' s what made them great and will keep them great as goes Chevy so goes GM

[Robert Hall]

Thanx with that mentality Chevy becomes Toyota and sells Maytag's while ONLY the rich can have a RWD car no matter what the horse power.

Chevy value FULL line manufacturer. that' s what made them great and will keep them great as goes Chevy so goes GM

Well, other than the relatively low volume Camaro and Corvette, Chevy has been only FWD appliances for the last 15 years....

[Drew Dowdell]

And before that, they had a RWD appliance...

[FAPTurbo]

Yes please!

[67impss]

And what might that be Olds? If referring to the B bodies then your way off base as a sporting car goes. Yeah my Roadmaster Estate will run with an Impala SS but handling braking not in the same league. prior to that the Monty SS same thing. If given the choice Chevy builds the value performance car and it's bought quite well. The RWD Monties were 95% take on SS at shut down and Imp SS was sold well too. Hell ALL B bodies sold well GM just wanted to sell trucks and cede the police & livery market to Ford rather than move the plant to Mexico.

[regfootball]

why not just restart the factory in Trollhatten? there ya go! Cimmaron rulz!!!!

[Drew Dowdell]

Not any smaller or lighter than the ATS.

[G. David Felt]

Thanx with that mentality Chevy becomes Toyota and sells Maytag's while ONLY the rich can have a RWD car no matter what the horse power.

Chevy value FULL line manufacturer. that' s what made them great and will keep them great as goes Chevy so goes GM

Eventually RWD/FWD will be gone as we move to AWD in a Hybrid format giving us better over all performance. As has been mentioned, the last 15 years except for the Corvette and Camaro, Chevy has been a FWD builder of appliances that people seem to like and if you go to CUV/SUV you end up with AWD/FWD or 4x4/FWD.

Active Lifestyles is making people change their thinking about drive trains. Plus Xbox has really helped raise a generation of AWD drivers.

[dwightlooi]

Thanx with that mentality Chevy becomes Toyota and sells Maytag's while ONLY the rich can have a RWD car no matter what the horse power.

Chevy value FULL line manufacturer. that' s what made them great and will keep them great as goes Chevy so goes GM

Eventually RWD/FWD will be gone as we move to AWD in a Hybrid format giving us better over all performance. As has been mentioned, the last 15 years except for the Corvette and Camaro, Chevy has been a FWD builder of appliances that people seem to like and if you go to CUV/SUV you end up with AWD/FWD or 4x4/FWD.

Active Lifestyles is making people change their thinking about drive trains. Plus Xbox has really helped raise a generation of AWD drivers.

If Americans are all that active, 34% of us wouldn't be clinically obese. All wheel drive will never be the defacto standard because of two very simple reasons -- it is not as efficient as FWD (Hybrid or not, you incur more parasitic loss driving two axles instead of one), and it is not as entertaining to drive as RWD.

Edited February 13, 2012 by dwightlooi

[67impss]

Well you can count Buick in with Chevy's woes also the dearly departed other 2/3's of BOP. Caddy has just to go back before the CTS to be FWD lest the B/D body and the Badge job Opel. There's been little on GM's fleet since 88 so if the finger is pointed at Chevy 3 others are pointed at the remaining divisions.

[Drew Dowdell]

ok, I had to read that 3 times and I'm still not sure I got it.....

[hyperv6]

Smaller lighter and more expensive are all in the cards for most makes and models in the future. Unless someone has the magic bullet the new standards will not be met. Also fuel will never get any cheaper.

Smaller is lighter with more expensive materials. In a Cadillac you will see more exotic things used to get the weight out. It is not hard to do in an expensive car but in a car like a Sonic it is difficult to do and keep the price down.

All the sports car makers and luxury makers in Europe are scared as they are being forced for once to make cars they would never have considered. Some will be ok while other will take a hit.

Who ever thought Retrimed IQ would be sold as an Aston Martin?

Anyone notice too that Cadillac has made it clear not to expect a XTS V? It seems they will save the V for the new larger RWD sedan. So all is not small.

Edited February 14, 2012 by hyperv6

[Robert Hall]

All the sports car makers and luxury makers in Europe are scared as they are being forced for once to make cars they would never have considered. Some will be ok while other will take a hit.

Who ever thought Retrimed IQ would be sold as an Aston Martin?

I don't think Porsche or Lamborghini or Ferrari and Maserati have to worry...they have VW/etc and Fiat, respectively, to make the FWD appliances...BMW has Mini, Daimler has Smart and M-B...it's the independents like Aston Martin and Jaguar/Land Rover that have to worry...

[balthazar]

I don't think Porsche... have to worry...they have VW...

http://wardsauto.com/news-amp-analysis/proud-porsche-determined-meet-cafe-mandate-our-own

[hyperv6]

All the sports car makers and luxury makers in Europe are scared as they are being forced for once to make cars they would never have considered. Some will be ok while other will take a hit.

Who ever thought Retrimed IQ would be sold as an Aston Martin?

I don't think Porsche or Lamborghini or Ferrari and Maserati have to worry...they have VW/etc and Fiat, respectively, to make the FWD appliances...BMW has Mini, Daimler has Smart and M-B...it's the independents like Aston Martin and Jaguar/Land Rover that have to worry...

No matter who own who they all are working on cars that get much better MPG.

Porshe is into hybrids and electrics already and working on more. Ferrari is looking to smaller engines in the future Aston is in a world of hurt as they are not doing the IQ for fun.

The fact is even if some can skirt the regs they still have to fight the Green movment in Europe. It is much stronger than most here even have a clue. The Green party is strong enough to change laws and force companies just by public opinion into changing products.

While most are people who want clean air which is ok many within this party are zelots.

I have even seen it effect companies like Michlien. years ago they made and market a tire with the Green Lable on the side. I remember getting the prototypes in and the guys joking it was not green.

While we will still have some fast and impressive cars the reality is many of the large engines will be gone and other ways to power even sports cars will come into the market.

Even Europe in many areas has California beat on the Green movment. Clarkson does not joke bout them just for fun. It is his public display to fight against them. He is one of few that will speak freely in public about them.

Things like the engine size tax in London and cut in the Autobahn is only some of the minor changes they want to see as more get elected.

[G. David Felt]

Just another reason to hold onto my old Performance Auto's since this is the last Golden Age of Big Engine Performance.

Or Next Golden Age will be when we have Tuners who build Hi Performance Electric Engines / Hybrid Systems. Once we can get 500 -1000 miles on a Electric / Hybrid system with Corvette performance, then we will be into another auto Golden Era.

[Drew Dowdell]

Why such a high bar for electrics to surpass? 1,000 miles on a charge? Our CR-V barely gets 260 on a fill-up around town. I don't think most Americans expect more than about 350 miles to a tank.

[G. David Felt]

Call me spoiled as my 94 GMC suburban with it's standard tank always gets me over 500 miles and same with my escalade. Guess since I always drive big auto's with big tanks, I feel a auto should be able to go 500 miles. 260 miles in an auto just seems wrong, way to short of distance traveled between fill ups.

[Drew Dowdell]

A few of the big trucks are exceptions just because they have such large tanks. The biggest sellers like Camry, Accord, Corolla, Sonata, and Cruze top out between 350 - 400 miles cruising range in non-hybrid form.

[smk4565]

Hopefully smaller is a sports car or roadster. And not a FWD city car.

[Z-06]

Hopefully smaller is a sports car or roadster. And not a FWD city car.

The ATS is only the first entry. The ATS platform is scalable, so we could go smaller or larger.

As usual you fail to read the crux and have an emotional copulation of GM hatred. This article is about going smaller with RWD.

Indirectly GM is telling Alpha is not dead as MT wanted to prove. Let us see if you buy ANY GM RWD, because you will always come up with an excuse of GM not being best.

[Robert Hall]

Hopefully smaller is a sports car or roadster. And not a FWD city car.

They will need a FWD city car eventually, though...there is a niche for micro cars that are more upscale than the Spark...

[dwightlooi]

Call me spoiled as my 94 GMC suburban with it's standard tank always gets me over 500 miles and same with my escalade. Guess since I always drive big auto's with big tanks, I feel a auto should be able to go 500 miles. 260 miles in an auto just seems wrong, way to short of distance traveled between fill ups.

I don't think it is an impediment for most. I have a C55 with a 5.5 V8 and a 15 gallon tank. It'll go about 280 miles in my commute driving and about 350 on a long distance freeway stint. That is about a week;y fill up for me and one stop for gas between San Jose and LA. Carrying enough gas to go 500 miles is simply a waste of space and an unnecessary lugging around of fuel mass, I'll rather have a deeper trunk or more rear seat space than a bigger tank.

Speaking of small tanks... the Acura TL (2nd gen) that we have only has a 12 gallon tank to feed its 3.2 V6. It has better fuel economy than the C55 but about the same range.

The biggest impediment of electrics isn't that they'll go 40 miles or 120 miles or 200 miles on a charge. It is that you can refuel a gas or diesel powered car in 3 minutes at a gas pump. You need 8~12 hours to recharge an electric car.

Edited February 15, 2012 by dwightlooi

[Drew Dowdell]

Well... at 110v, yes.

But the quick chargers that are going into a bunch of parking garages, restaurants, and retail establishments can "fill up" a Leaf from stone dead to full charge in 30 minutes. Who here can't easily blow 30 minutes in a Best Buy, Home Depot or Bob Evans? Who here wouldn't pay $3 to for 100 miles of range? To put that into perspective, it costs about $14 to go 100 miles in a car that averages 25 mpg. Even a Prius driver is paying $7 per 100 miles assuming 50mpg.

$3 dollars to charge (the price being thrown around right now for places that aren't offering it for free) is still profitable for the retailer and still a decent deal for the driver. Even a Plug-In-Pruis driver would benefit from a $1 - 10 minute pit stop at Home Depot if they were in Regen mode.

The fear of electric cars is more and more unfounded as more and more charging stations are installed.

[G. David Felt]

I know the charging issue will go down as more charging stations at 220 or 440 go in at rest stops on major roads, but there is still a considerable wait compared to fueling the auto up. Highway 2 Stevens Pass put in 2 recharg stations that you can select 220 or 440 charge and yet at 4100 feet with below freezing temp, it take a while for the plug ins to recharge.

[Drew Dowdell]

I take it there is no indoor waiting area there? That is a highly location specific issue. The company I work for is doing recharging stations at retailers.

[balthazar]

As of 3 months ago, there were only 20 recharging stations in the state of NJ, and the Leaf isn't available here (explains why I've yet to see one).

It will take a number of years to get even a fledgling electric support system in place.

If an electric works for your transportation/recharging needs, go for it.

BTW, as a contractor, I find it amusing to think of people going to HD, being able to recharge their electric, but being unable to bring home much of anything in such small cars. I watched a guy trying to stuff a 4'x8' piece of pegboard in a RAV4 recently... there was no way.

I know, I know; some folk just buy a pack of light bulbs or a petunia...

[hyperv6]

I don't know about the smaller Cadillac but has anyone really noticed the photos of the larger CTS yet. Imagine a CTS that is larger but has about the same mass as the present car. Should make for a very appealing car.

I am hearing 350 HP Turbo V6. I would expect the V8 V to have as much or more power.

[Lamar]

Call me spoiled as my 94 GMC suburban with it's standard tank always gets me over 500 miles and same with my escalade. Guess since I always drive big auto's with big tanks, I feel a auto should be able to go 500 miles. 260 miles in an auto just seems wrong, way to short of distance traveled between fill ups.

With your Suburban, 13 combined MPG * 42-gallon tank = 546 miles.

Yes, you can go far, but you aren't achieving anything close to good fuel economy...

[G. David Felt]

I take it there is no indoor waiting area there? That is a highly location specific issue. The company I work for is doing recharging stations at retailers.

Stevens pass has the recharging stations at the Ski Resort, so plug in your car and go have breakfast or lunch and watch the winter fun or during the spring and summer once the snow melts, watch the moutain biking fun while you wait to get a charge.

Edited February 16, 2012 by dfelt

[G. David Felt]

Call me spoiled as my 94 GMC suburban with it's standard tank always gets me over 500 miles and same with my escalade. Guess since I always drive big auto's with big tanks, I feel a auto should be able to go 500 miles. 260 miles in an auto just seems wrong, way to short of distance traveled between fill ups.

With your Suburban, 13 combined MPG * 42-gallon tank = 546 miles.

Yes, you can go far, but you aren't achieving anything close to good fuel economy...

Fuel Economy is in the eye of the beholder. My wife was rearended twice. The first time we were in my Aunts Delta 88 at a stop light in Huntington Beach CA when a Suburban rear ended us totaling the auto and severly hurting my wife who was in the back seat. The second time was when a Washington State DOT truck was not paying attention to traffic and rear ended my wife in our Ford Escort we had for her driving required merchandising job and again got severly injured.

What Price do you put on quality of life over gas milage?

For me, that was the end to me having family members drive small auto's. The suburban had barely a dent to it's front metal bumper and the DOT truck according to pictures taken by WSP in their police report showed nothing but scratches to the DOT truck and yes our 2 year old escort was totaled.

My wife and I would rather fill up a tank and have protective steel around us than deal with the body damage caused by other poor drivers.

So from my point of view, Gas milage is all relative in relation to QUALITY OF LIFE!

My wife loves the suburban for the room, comfort and the line of sight due to sitting up much higher as our suburban has a 3" lift kit. For us, we will never get rid of our full Size SUV's. Yes I know I spend far more on gas each month than the average person, about $600 a month, but it is well worth it.

Edited February 16, 2012 by dfelt

[G. David Felt]

I don't know about the smaller Cadillac but has anyone really noticed the photos of the larger CTS yet. Imagine a CTS that is larger but has about the same mass as the present car. Should make for a very appealing car.

I am hearing 350 HP Turbo V6. I would expect the V8 V to have as much or more power.

Just think once economy of scale brings the cost down and people figure out how to build High Performance Electric engines, having a CTS-V with a 1L turbo Generator, electric motors at all 4 wheels, each electric motor able to put out about 200HP and a total solid torque line so you have about 800 combines hp and about the same for torque with a top speed of 160mph.

That would be a screaming quite ride

[Lamar]

I completely understand your POV as far as why you wouldn't putter around in a subcompact; to be honest, neither would I for very similar reasons.

I was just confused as to how you worded your above post. To me it sounded like you were saying that being able to go 500+ miles on a 42-gallon tank was a good thing. But if that's worth it to you -- the safety of you and yours -- then if you like it, I love it.

[SAmadei]

I completely understand your POV as far as why you wouldn't putter around in a subcompact; to be honest, neither would I for very similar reasons.

I was just confused as to how you worded your above post. To me it sounded like you were saying that being able to go 500+ miles on a 42-gallon tank was a good thing. But if that's worth it to you -- the safety of you and yours -- then if you like it, I love it.

Well, I share Dfelt's opinion of having some steel around me, but I'd also like to add that going 500+ miles on a 42 gallon tank is not so bad when you consider that the big truck can haul some serious weight and the mileage will not immediately suffer. Put 1500 pounds in a Prius and its economy will plummet... just like how Top Gear demonstrated that a 3 series can be more economical than a Prius if you drive like you're on a racetrack.

I don't drive my dumptruck too much because it gets 6-8 mpg, regardless if its full or empty. So I only drive it loaded, which isn't too often.

[Drew Dowdell]

As of 3 months ago, there were only 20 recharging stations in the state of NJ, and the Leaf isn't available here (explains why I've yet to see one).

It will take a number of years to get even a fledgling electric support system in place.

If an electric works for your transportation/recharging needs, go for it.

BTW, as a contractor, I find it amusing to think of people going to HD, being able to recharge their electric, but being unable to bring home much of anything in such small cars. I watched a guy trying to stuff a 4'x8' piece of pegboard in a RAV4 recently... there was no way.

I know, I know; some folk just buy a pack of light bulbs or a petunia...

I take my Toronado to Home Depot all the time, so I'm not entirely sure what your point is. As I've said, lots of retailers are gearing up to start offering charging stations, first at their new locations and then later retrofitting existing stores.

[Drew Dowdell]

Call me spoiled as my 94 GMC suburban with it's standard tank always gets me over 500 miles and same with my escalade. Guess since I always drive big auto's with big tanks, I feel a auto should be able to go 500 miles. 260 miles in an auto just seems wrong, way to short of distance traveled between fill ups.

With your Suburban, 13 combined MPG * 42-gallon tank = 546 miles.

Yes, you can go far, but you aren't achieving anything close to good fuel economy...

Fuel Economy is in the eye of the beholder. My wife was rearended twice. The first time we were in my Aunts Delta 88 at a stop light in Huntington Beach CA when a Suburban rear ended us totaling the auto and severly hurting my wife who was in the back seat. The second time was when a Washington State DOT truck was not paying attention to traffic and rear ended my wife in our Ford Escort we had for her driving required merchandising job and again got severly injured.

What Price do you put on quality of life over gas milage?

For me, that was the end to me having family members drive small auto's. The suburban had barely a dent to it's front metal bumper and the DOT truck according to pictures taken by WSP in their police report showed nothing but scratches to the DOT truck and yes our 2 year old escort was totaled.

My wife and I would rather fill up a tank and have protective steel around us than deal with the body damage caused by other poor drivers.

So from my point of view, Gas milage is all relative in relation to QUALITY OF LIFE!

My wife loves the suburban for the room, comfort and the line of sight due to sitting up much higher as our suburban has a 3" lift kit. For us, we will never get rid of our full Size SUV's. Yes I know I spend far more on gas each month than the average person, about $600 a month, but it is well worth it.

Buy an S60 and she'd likely be better off in both regards. (active headrests for rear end collisions)

[G. David Felt]

Call me spoiled as my 94 GMC suburban with it's standard tank always gets me over 500 miles and same with my escalade. Guess since I always drive big auto's with big tanks, I feel a auto should be able to go 500 miles. 260 miles in an auto just seems wrong, way to short of distance traveled between fill ups.

With your Suburban, 13 combined MPG * 42-gallon tank = 546 miles.

Yes, you can go far, but you aren't achieving anything close to good fuel economy...

Fuel Economy is in the eye of the beholder. My wife was rearended twice. The first time we were in my Aunts Delta 88 at a stop light in Huntington Beach CA when a Suburban rear ended us totaling the auto and severly hurting my wife who was in the back seat. The second time was when a Washington State DOT truck was not paying attention to traffic and rear ended my wife in our Ford Escort we had for her driving required merchandising job and again got severly injured.

What Price do you put on quality of life over gas milage?

For me, that was the end to me having family members drive small auto's. The suburban had barely a dent to it's front metal bumper and the DOT truck according to pictures taken by WSP in their police report showed nothing but scratches to the DOT truck and yes our 2 year old escort was totaled.

My wife and I would rather fill up a tank and have protective steel around us than deal with the body damage caused by other poor drivers.

So from my point of view, Gas milage is all relative in relation to QUALITY OF LIFE!

My wife loves the suburban for the room, comfort and the line of sight due to sitting up much higher as our suburban has a 3" lift kit. For us, we will never get rid of our full Size SUV's. Yes I know I spend far more on gas each month than the average person, about $600 a month, but it is well worth it.

Buy an S60 and she'd likely be better off in both regards. (active headrests for rear end collisions)

S60 would be considered if it was built and run by an american company and if the wife liked the looks of volvo's. We have all GM auto's.

In both accidents, the seats were totally broken from the connections in the floor as to how hard the hits were, even with Active headrests I still think she would have gotten some form of wiplash. The first car did not have headrest as to why I think it was so bad and the 2nd car had them and lucky for her she was resting on it so she only agrivated her old injury rather than causing new damage.

[hyperv6]

Charging stations really are not the answer. Too long to charge and fast chargers damage the long term life of a battery.

Electric cars have a limited segment of the market and will have for a time till ranges climb and charging becomes much faster on a much cheaper battery. I expect they will get there but it will be a while. Right now cars like the Volt are the only ones that the average driver can live with and it will remain a limited model till GM gets the price down. If they could get the present car to a non tax credit $20-25K they will sell a ton of them but till then......

This is where an electric Cadillac would have an advantage. You can package the model with higher priced items and sell it till they price drops enough to package it in a Chevy.

[G. David Felt]

Charging stations really are not the answer. Too long to charge and fast chargers damage the long term life of a battery.

Electric cars have a limited segment of the market and will have for a time till ranges climb and charging becomes much faster on a much cheaper battery. I expect they will get there but it will be a while. Right now cars like the Volt are the only ones that the average driver can live with and it will remain a limited model till GM gets the price down. If they could get the present car to a non tax credit $20-25K they will sell a ton of them but till then......

This is where an electric Cadillac would have an advantage. You can package the model with higher priced items and sell it till they price drops enough to package it in a Chevy.

The Cadillac Version I agree will probably be the answer to getting the VOLT price to drop faster by getting the R&D cost covered by the higher income users.

[hyperv6]

Charging stations really are not the answer. Too long to charge and fast chargers damage the long term life of a battery.

Electric cars have a limited segment of the market and will have for a time till ranges climb and charging becomes much faster on a much cheaper battery. I expect they will get there but it will be a while. Right now cars like the Volt are the only ones that the average driver can live with and it will remain a limited model till GM gets the price down. If they could get the present car to a non tax credit $20-25K they will sell a ton of them but till then......

This is where an electric Cadillac would have an advantage. You can package the model with higher priced items and sell it till they price drops enough to package it in a Chevy.

The Cadillac Version I agree will probably be the answer to getting the VOLT price to drop faster by getting the R&D cost covered by the higher income users.

This is how they cut the cost on Fuel Injection, Anti Lock Brakes, Stability Controls and many other things that were high priced technology at first and moved to the cheaper cars as volume and money came in.