Industry News: New Bill To Offer A Billion Dollar Prize To 100 MPG Vehicle

[William Maley]

William Maley

Editor/Reporter - CheersandGears.com

February 6, 2012

Do you want a billion dollars? Well, all you need to do is build 60,000 cars that get 100 MPG and the U.S. government will send a check your way if a new bill is passed.

Representative Dan Lungren ® of California's 3rd Congressional District has introduced a bill into Congress called the Excellence in Energy Efficiency Act of 2012. If the bill is passed, the legislation would have the Secretary of Energy "establish a program to award a prize in the amount of $1,000,000,000 to the first automobile manufacturer incorporated in the United States to manufacture and sell in the United States 60,000 mid-sized sedan automobiles which operate on gasoline and can travel 100 miles per gallon."

That's right, no compacts or any electric vehicles can be used. It's unclear whether plug-in hybrids can be used, but judging from this quote, "To provide a prize to the first manufacturer of highly-efficient mid-sized automobiles powered by gasoline," we doubt it.

Source: The Hill

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[G. David Felt]

So does that mean GM and Ford can go for this prize or does it have to be a newly incorporated company? THis biil seems very vague.

[Justin Bimmer]

Dan Lungren is a bit off.

[William Maley]

I would think so, but my guess is that it will get worked out if the bill gets passed

[G. David Felt]

Would be a great way for the car companie to work on and build a quality high milage car. We need to move the needle more, but I am not sure the hybrid is really the way to go.

[loki]

more incentives to cater to a small portion of the population....and somewhere manufacturers would have to divert resources to vie for for this 1 billion.

while it's a lofty goal, it's just an opposite tactic of things like CAFE, instead of punishing, it's rewarding. but it's still a whip on manufactures that want to play that game.

[Camino LS6]

Better idea than CAFE, but obviously written by the clueless - absurd goal that wishful thinking will not achieve,

They'd do better to offer a similar reward for a viable new fuel, or a distribution network for the same.

[Robert Hall]

100mpg is not a that much of a stretch....VW already had a diesel Lupo in Europe that got the equivalent of US 78mpg.

[§carlet §wordfish]

It basically sounds like a governtment-sponsored extension of the Automotive X PRIZE, which already proved that 100+ MPG cars are feasible. This bill just takes it to the next step by requiring a full production run. I would expect several AXP competitors to go after this as well, since preliminary requirements were that entries had to be production-ready and have a credible business plan.

Edited February 6, 2012 by §carlet §wordfish

[Camino LS6]

We don't need 100MPG cars, we need another fuel to power those we have now. Preferably one the is both domestic and renewable.

Conservation of a finite resource will never solve the problem.

[§carlet §wordfish]

No, but it will give us a buffer while alternative fuel technologies are developed and ready to be mass marketed, and will still reduce our dependency on oil in the interim. And the designs and methods used to make a car that can get 100+ MPG on gas will be just as relevant to cars that run on other fuels to make them more efficient.

[Z-06]

We don't need 100MPG cars, we need another fuel to power those we have now. Preferably one the is both domestic and renewable.

Conservation of a finite resource will never solve the problem.

Crude Oil needs competition. Not at current prices but for a price of $1.00/gal.

[Camino LS6]

I don't buy that for a minute. This will be a huge boondoggle, someone will meet the minimum requirements and collect the money. Then they will have a fire sale on the undesireable cars they built and quietly end production.

The premise of this is wholly wrong-headed.

If the government wants to spend our money on research, the least we should expect is that they do it with an eye toward providing a real solution. 60,000 sedans for a billion dollars is no answer to anything. This is the La La Land thinking we have in public office today.

We don't need 100MPG cars, we need another fuel to power those we have now. Preferably one the is both domestic and renewable.

Conservation of a finite resource will never solve the problem.

Crude Oil needs competition. Not at current prices but for a price of $1.00/gal.

Yes!

[Z-06]

That is precisely what came to my mind. No specifics of what size vehicle, what engine, what propulsion. Just throw a number off the congressional rear. Companies will just make a better nano and you can have 150 mpg. There should be some paradigms to adopt such as midsize 5 passenger sedan/coupe, etc.

I don't buy that for a minute. This will be a huge boondoggle, someone will meet the minimum requirements and collect the money. Then they will have a fire sale on the undesireable cars they built and quietly end production.

The premise of this is wholly wrong-headed.

If the government wants to spend our money on research, the least we should expect is that they do it with an eye toward providing a real solution. 60,000 sedans for a billion dollars is no answer to anything. This is the La La Land thinking we have in public office today.

We don't need 100MPG cars, we need another fuel to power those we have now. Preferably one the is both domestic and renewable.

Conservation of a finite resource will never solve the problem.

Crude Oil needs competition. Not at current prices but for a price of $1.00/gal.

Yes!

[Robert Hall]

Crude Oil needs competition. Not at current prices but for a price of $1.00/gal.

That seems unrealistically cheap.

[Z-06]

Crude Oil needs competition. Not at current prices but for a price of $1.00/gal.

That seems unrealistically cheap.

Do you think oil companies will let a competitor in easy?

[Robert Hall]

Crude Oil needs competition. Not at current prices but for a price of $1.00/gal.

That seems unrealistically cheap.

Do you think oil companies will let a competitor in easy?

I can't imagine they would let any competitor in...any company that tried to compete would be destroyed rapidly by Big Oil companies..

[Z-06]

Crude Oil needs competition. Not at current prices but for a price of $1.00/gal.

That seems unrealistically cheap.

Do you think oil companies will let a competitor in easy?

I can't imagine they would let any competitor in...any company that tried to compete would be destroyed rapidly by Big Oil companies..

That is precisely my point. You have to survive and thrive in such a scenario.

[Camino LS6]

Crude Oil needs competition. Not at current prices but for a price of $1.00/gal.

That seems unrealistically cheap.

If accomplished, imagine the impact on the economy!

Especially if the supply is domestic.

[G. David Felt]

Think it is time for the GOV to set a standard for connections and require all gas stations to have a pump for Propane, Pump for Naural Gas on top of having pumps for BIO-Fuel. This will then drive competition and reduce the oil need and price.

[Camino LS6]

Think it is time for the GOV to set a standard for connections and require all gas stations to have a pump for Propane, Pump for Naural Gas on top of having pumps for BIO-Fuel. This will then drive competition and reduce the oil need and price.

An infinitely more logical approach.

And while they are at it, they should remove the roadblocks to simple conversions to these alt fuels. EPA regs hold what could be a great industry back in this regard. Very stupid.

[Drew Dowdell]

100 mpg city? 100 mpg highway? 100 mpg combined?

And why no diesels or electrics? Why not use every available bit of technology there is out there? Diesel is the more efficient fuel per gallon. If they're worried about the NOx, they have urea filters for that.

GM can get a Buick Lacrosse to go 36mpg highway using very mild electric boost. The Cruze Eco got me 51mpg. A Cruze Eco 1.4CDi with eAssist would likely put them very close to that 100mpg goal (highway). A 1 liter Volt diesel or HCCI Gasser would put them well over the top. HCCI would work very well in the Volt because the HCCI mode has a rather narrow rpm band it can operate in, but the Volt generator doesn't care as long as it is getting the RPMs it needs constantly.

Limiting this contest to gasoline only vehicles is dumb dumb dumb.

[Camino LS6]

The whole notion is stupid - just the half-assed product of the inferior minds we send to congress.

[loki]

Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?

heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/facts/2005/fcvt_fotw364.html

[SAmadei]

Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?

heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.

http://www1.eere.ene...vt_fotw364.html

Well, it was 13 years ago. I remember buying gas for $1.07 in late '98/early '99 and thinking it was something of nirvana. Unfortunately, the reality of 1999 seems to have been distorted in way too many ways to get to 2012 that its hard to put it on a baseline with today's reality.

[Robert Hall]

Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?

heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.

http://www1.eere.ene...vt_fotw364.html

Yes, gas was that cheap. In the past. Not likely it's going to get that cheap again in the future.

[Camino LS6]

Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?

heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.

http://www1.eere.ene...vt_fotw364.html

Yes, gas was that cheap. In the past. Not likely it's going to get that cheap again in the future.

Thus the need to replace it.

[Z-06]

Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?

heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.

http://www1.eere.ene...vt_fotw364.html

Yes, gas was that cheap. In the past. Not likely it's going to get that cheap again in the future.

What is not understood is when there is a competition to the livelihood (dominance) of gas manufacturers, will they keep the future price at current level knowing the future will be in trouble?

What makes these manufacturers drop the price down in the future to the ones in past?

[Robert Hall]

Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?

heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.

http://www1.eere.ene...vt_fotw364.html

Yes, gas was that cheap. In the past. Not likely it's going to get that cheap again in the future.

What is not understood is when there is a competition to the livelihood (dominance) of gas manufacturers, will they keep the future price at current level knowing the future will be in trouble?

What makes these manufacturers drop the price down in the future to the ones in past?

<cynical-realist>

Competition. But that isn't likely to happen, as corrupt oil companies (and the politicians they own) actively work to prevent competition. Not to mention instability in the Middle East is always a constant threat to oil prices.

</cynical-realist>

Edited February 7, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Camino LS6]

Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?

heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.

http://www1.eere.ene...vt_fotw364.html

Yes, gas was that cheap. In the past. Not likely it's going to get that cheap again in the future.

What is not understood is when there is a competition to the livelihood (dominance) of gas manufacturers, will they keep the future price at current level knowing the future will be in trouble?

What makes these manufacturers drop the price down in the future to the ones in past?

<cynical-realist>

Competition. But that isn't likely to happen, as corrupt oil companies (and the politicians they own) actively work to prevent competition. Not to mention instability in the Middle East is always a constant threat to oil prices.

</cynical-realist>

And even more reasons to replace it.

[Z-06]

Moltar, why does that seem unrealistic, gas was just $1 ~10 years ago. so, does the reality of 10 years ago, seem unrealistic?

heck, gas used to be as cheap as $0.20.

http://www1.eere.ene...vt_fotw364.html

Yes, gas was that cheap. In the past. Not likely it's going to get that cheap again in the future.

What is not understood is when there is a competition to the livelihood (dominance) of gas manufacturers, will they keep the future price at current level knowing the future will be in trouble?

What makes these manufacturers drop the price down in the future to the ones in past?

<shortsighted person>

Competition. But that isn't likely to happen, as corrupt oil companies (and the politicians they own) actively work to prevent competition. Not to mention instability in the Middle East is always a constant threat to oil prices.

</shortsighted person>

Are you absolutely sure that no competition will exist because of the corrupt activities? May be not in US, but countries who do not have power or much vested interest in crude oil are already looking into that alternative. Aren't people in this country clamoring to end oil dependence? Armed forces have a huge initiative on the same. Once the revolution starts with a competitive product, government and corporations will not overtly support the activities of dominance then the oil industry will go into survival mode.

Just like OPEC came together to unify and charge people more, what is preventing OPEC to come together and destroy an industry with higher costs in short term by slashing prices so that long term it maintains the status quo? That is the reality.

When domination enters survival mode, all bets are off.

[Robert Hall]

<cynical-skeptic>

Competition. But that isn't likely to happen, as corrupt oil companies (and the politicians they own) actively work to prevent competition. Not to mention instability in the Middle East is always a constant threat to oil prices.

</cynical-skeptic>

Are you absolutely sure that no competition will exist because of the corrupt activities? May be not in US, but countries who do not have power or much vested interest in crude oil are already looking into that alternative. Aren't people in this country clamoring to end oil dependence? Armed forces have a huge initiative on the same. Once the revolution starts with a competitive product, government and corporations will not overtly support the activities of dominance then the oil industry will go into survival mode.

Just like OPEC came together to unify and charge people more, what is preventing OPEC to come together and destroy an industry with higher costs in short term by slashing prices so that long term it maintains the status quo? That is the reality.

When domination enters survival mode, all bets are off.

Oil companies have vast financial and political resources... I just can't see them allowing something to grow that threatens their existence.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Z-06]

<cynical-skeptic>

Competition. But that isn't likely to happen, as corrupt oil companies (and the politicians they own) actively work to prevent competition. Not to mention instability in the Middle East is always a constant threat to oil prices.

</cynical-skeptic>

Are you absolutely sure that no competition will exist because of the corrupt activities? May be not in US, but countries who do not have power or much vested interest in crude oil are already looking into that alternative. Aren't people in this country clamoring to end oil dependence? Armed forces have a huge initiative on the same. Once the revolution starts with a competitive product, government and corporations will not overtly support the activities of dominance then the oil industry will go into survival mode.

Just like OPEC came together to unify and charge people more, what is preventing OPEC to come together and destroy an industry with higher costs in short term by slashing prices so that long term it maintains the status quo? That is the reality.

When domination enters survival mode, all bets are off.

Oil companies have vast financial and political resources... I just can't see them allowing something to grow that threatens their existence.

Allowing something not to grow is mutually exclusive to something will grow.

Brazil already has something that is competing with oil industry.

[G. David Felt]

From 1983 to 1987 I worked for a chain call Pizza Haven here in the Seattle Area as a shirft manager in charge of deliveries. We had Chevy full size truck that had Hot Propane powered box's in the bed and the tank while huge as it filled the rest of the bed was also used to power the propane v8 engines.

Those trucks were clean and really moved. I never had a problem driving them an it was easy to just drive up to a gass station and have them fill up the big tank.

We need this option in vehicles but instead of having to open a trunk or get into the bed of a truck, should have the propane fill noze right where the gas tank filler is usually kept.

I fail to see why they could not do this and get clean burning propane tanked auto's on the street now.

[Robert Hall]

Don't know what they use now, but when I lived in the Florida Keys n the '80s the local sherriff's department had a fleet of propane powered Dodge Diplomats. IIRC, they used propane in case fuel supplies from the mainland were cut due to hurricanes..

[loki]

moltar, prices would reach that level again if the inflation of the last ~100 years was undone. a gallon of "gas" in the 1920's is the "same" as now(while being refined more) ...*include rant about commodity prices and our dollar doesn't function as a true commodity* even with taxes, gas is basically a silver dime per gallon. how's that for cheap?

[Robert Hall]

moltar, prices would reach that level again if the inflation of the last ~100 years was undone. a gallon of "gas" in the 1920's is the "same" as now(while being refined more) ...*include rant about commodity prices and our dollar doesn't function as a true commodity* even with taxes, gas is basically a silver dime per gallon. how's that for cheap?

Yes, I could see that happening...in a fantasy world. Not going to happen in the real world.

[loki]

Yes, I could see that happening...in a fantasy world. Not going to happen in the real world.

yes, subjectively it's not going to happen, but objectively it already has. the law just needs to change to allow currency competition.

so which is fantasy and which is reality? the law, or the price of gas vs other commodities.