Do kids hate cars?

[Robert Hall]

And driving your car to work every day isn't already conformist and isolating?

No..it's practical. I work in an office 18 miles from home. Going by bus or light rail would double my commute time and have several other inconvenient aspects.

in your car, you don't have to sit next to loud and sweaty. you have your own audio. You have a place for your beverage, and if you need to swing out of the way on a whim and go pick up your meds at the pharmacy, you can do that.

and you don't have to stop every 5 minutes and pick up a bunch of others.

my favoritie scenario is this. my kid gets sick at 2 a.m. i need immediately to get them to urgent care or a pharmacy or both. It's freezing out and snowing and minus a bunch wind chill. I don't think i'll be taking my kid on a bus........partially because it won't be running at that time and place.

Bingo.

[FAPTurbo]

But we don't have children that get sick at 2am. Ergo, we don't need a car for that situation.

And smartphones/cell-phones have introduced a new sense of freedom, individuality and connectivity.

i sure wish i could have sexted pictures of my p3nis to a girl i was chasing, or been able to take pictures of naked conquests and send them around to friends when i was younger.

you know, the important, meaningful, and culturally valuable things you can do with a cell phone. that, and play games. Zomg

I'm sure many people my age wish they had the opportunity to do all the culturally valuable things one can do with a car. Y'know, burnouts, guzzling limited resources, polluting the atmosphere, contributing to obesity and asthma in children, vehicular manslaughter... all that fun stuff!

Yeah 300,000 people driving a Camaro is totally non-conformist.

A few individuals compared to the millions of sheep driving Toyotas.

Oddly, some of the most individualistic and creative people I know drive Toyota's. How is it that technology is making people more conformist? Technology allows people to break away from the mainstream. Technology is democratizing information. Cellphones have enabled people to topple entire regimes.

And again, I'm not sure how the automobile made people 'less' conformist. So you drive the same car that a bajillion others do? How very individualistic of you!

[G. David Felt]

But we don't have children that get sick at 2am. Ergo, we don't need a car for that situation.

And smartphones/cell-phones have introduced a new sense of freedom, individuality and connectivity.

i sure wish i could have sexted pictures of my p3nis to a girl i was chasing, or been able to take pictures of naked conquests and send them around to friends when i was younger.

you know, the important, meaningful, and culturally valuable things you can do with a cell phone. that, and play games. Zomg

I'm sure many people my age wish had the opportunity to do all the culturally valuable things one can do with a car. Y'know, burnouts, guzzling limited resources, polluting the atmosphere, contributing to obesity and asthma in children, vehicular manslaughter... all that fun stuff!

Yeah 300,000 people driving a Camaro is totally non-conformist.

A few individuals compared to the millions of sheep driving Toyotas.

Oddly, some of the most individualistic and creative people I know drive Toyota's. How is it that technology is making people more conformist? Technology allows people to break away from the mainstream. Technology is democratizing information. Cellphones have enabled people to topple entire regimes.

And again, I'm not sure how the automobile made people 'less' conformist. So you drive the same car that a bajillion others do? How very individualistic of you!

I am having to chock this up to you being very young. I see NO ONE in the 20's or younger age taking a car and customizing it into a hot rod, roadster, etc.

At 44, my freedom is my own nice vehicle that is customized to be me. In this case a 1994 GMC Suburban with a lift kit, 505 HP 551LBS and yes I am happy with my 11 miles to a gallon. People who see it know it is a suburban, but very different than others and that is the individualist that is missing from the youth today.

If you are under 30, you seem to all have Apple Crap I this, I that.

No Idea how to actually work hard and perform both manual labor and Critical thinking skills.

Youth of today seem to have no time to assist others or respect to elders.

Yes as a computer engineer, I know I have contributed to many changes, yet I also am shocked by the youth of today that feel entitled and complain about not getting their way.

Youth also seem to be out of touch with this whole Everyone must pay for mass transit. Fact is that Transportation is a luxury you earn, not a Right. Just like cell phones, internet, cars, etc are all luxuries you earn, not a right. Nothing stopping people from walking to work, ridding a bike, etc. Many ways to get around, depends on how much you make and how much you save. Mass transit should always have been about offering a break even pay for itself transportation option for lower income people and those who do not like to drive. It should never have been about taxing those who make more to give transportation to those that choose or cannot afford it.

My attitude is, work hard, save up and respect your elders and listen rather than blabber as you just might learn something.

Edited February 8, 2012 by dfelt

[FAPTurbo]

Oh forgot, Monster Trucks are another culturally valuable thing the automobile gave us! Yee-haw!

[frogger]

I can see it for big cities with good subways and people who live and work near them, but that is a rarity in North America. Even when I move near the subway this year, I'll still keep the car for ocassional use, just wouldn't spend much on its replacement.

[G. David Felt]

Oh forgot, Monster Trucks are another culturally valuable thing the automobile gave us! Yee-haw!

If you have no passion for individual auto's then why be on this board as a moderator or writer?

Clearly you would do well with the tree huggers in Portland and the Seirra club.

My so called Monster Truck can do far more than anything green or an apple I-Thing.

Try going off road, getting over broken roads with no damage, rescuing people in idiot Nissan Leafs or Prius who go up on the pass and get messed up and complain as to why they should have to deal with snow.

I could bitch and go on and on, but I will agree to disagree with you as most of your comments seem to be anti Auto's.

[§carlet §wordfish]

And, taking a drive just for its own sake...

That reminds me...I haven't taken a 'destination unknown' random drive in a long time...I always seem to be busy w/ life and have a specific destination in mind--the office, a restaurant, Starbucks, Target, etc. Haven't driven just for fun in ages..

Driving for just for its own sake is an alien concept to me. I can barely afford the gas it takes for my school commute. I drive with hypermiling techniques as much as is practically possible. If I were to go on a drive just for fun, I wouldn't have any fun because I'd be lamenting all the money I'd be wasting to get basically nowhere.

[Robert Hall]

I don't know, an Apple Mac Book Pro is a pretty powerful tool. As a software engineer, I use one everyday... (along w/ Google services and Amazon S3 cloud services) Tthough I prefer Android phones over iPhones. I do like my Kindle, but will probably get an iPad sooner or later. I've had iPods for a decade for music. But I won't drive a Prius like many of my peers (30-40 something software engineers).

[Intrepidation]

Oh forgot, Monster Trucks are another culturally valuable thing the automobile gave us! Yee-haw!

If you have no passion for individual auto's then why be on this board as a moderator or writer?

Clearly you would do well with the tree huggers in Portland and the Seirra club.

My so called Monster Truck can do far more than anything green or an apple I-Thing.

Try going off road, getting over broken roads with no damage, rescuing people in idiot Nissan Leafs or Prius who go up on the pass and get messed up and complain as to why they should have to deal with snow.

I could bitch and go on and on, but I will agree to disagree with you as most of your comments seem to be anti Auto's.

Clearly you have no concept of satire.

[G. David Felt]

I still feel the bus fare is too cheap and must be raised to cover the costs without increasing tax's.

But that unfairly penalizes people who rely most on transit: students and low-income earners.

Taxes should be levied on drivers. If you choose the luxury to use a car, you pay to subsidize the people who choose not to.

Here you clearly hit the nail on the head, These people choose NOT to drive, so they SHOULD pay for their share of riding mass transit. It is NOT my place or any other tax payer who chooses to drive their own private auto due to working hard and saving for it to have to provide transit for others. It is a luxury you earn!

[Robert Hall]

And, taking a drive just for its own sake...

That reminds me...I haven't taken a 'destination unknown' random drive in a long time...I always seem to be busy w/ life and have a specific destination in mind--the office, a restaurant, Starbucks, Target, etc. Haven't driven just for fun in ages..

Driving for just for its own sake is an alien concept to me. I can barely afford the gas it takes for my school commute. I drive with hypermiling techniques as much as is practically possible. If I were to go on a drive just for fun, I wouldn't have any fun because I'd be lamenting all the money I'd be wasting to get basically nowhere.

Understandable..I was a student once also.

Time is the limiting factor for me these days. And within 50 miles of me it's all pretty ugly desert.. though there are some interesting backroads up north. When I lived in Colorado I used to do 200-400 mile weekend day trips to search for twisty back roads for fun when I had my M3 and my Mustang GT.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[G. David Felt]

I don't know, an Apple Mac Book Pro is a pretty powerful tool. As a software engineer, I use one everyday... (along w/ Google services and Amazon S3 cloud services) Tthough I prefer Android phones over iPhones. I do like my Kindle, but will probably get an iPad sooner or later. I've had iPods for a decade for music. But I won't drive a Prius like many of my peers (30-40 something software engineers).

Interesting, I do find there are fellow engineers I work with that love their apple computers and can actually use them to do things, yet most people seem to not be able to do much. I on the other hand will stick with my Linux/unix/windows systems. I do agree I love my andriod phone from Samsung. It is a blast of usefullness. I too will pass on the Prius, not a car that can ever fit me.

[balthazar]

I'm as fiscally tight as it gets, but I made a decision not to obsess over fuel costs.

I don't like paying over $4 (or over $2.50 for that matter) for fuel (diesel has been around $3.70 for a while), but it's not a matter of not being able to afford it for me, so obviously that makes it easier. Back to my point; I just decided not to make fuel cost something that bothers me, and I did this for mental freedom's sake, and I have never regretted it. Sure it adds up, but in that my lifestyle/ employment does not allow for ANY other alternative, it's going to be burned either way.

I understand Swordfish's position WRT costs, tho.

Edited February 9, 2012 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

And, taking a drive just for its own sake...

That reminds me...I haven't taken a 'destination unknown' random drive in a long time...I always seem to be busy w/ life and have a specific destination in mind--the office, a restaurant, Starbucks, Target, etc. Haven't driven just for fun in ages..

Driving for just for its own sake is an alien concept to me. I can barely afford the gas it takes for my school commute. I drive with hypermiling techniques as much as is practically possible. If I were to go on a drive just for fun, I wouldn't have any fun because I'd be lamenting all the money I'd be wasting to get basically nowhere.

Time is the limiting factor for me these days. And within 50 miles of me it's all pretty ugly desert.. though there are some interesting backroads up north. When I lived in Colorado I used to do 200-400 mile weekend day trips to search for twisty back roads for fun when I had my M3 and my Mustang GT.

Seattle has many fun roads to drive and scenery to enjoy. The North Cascade Highway loop is an awesome 440 mile drive I think everyone should do once in their life. I always do it every spring after the road opens from the winter and usually will drive it 3 or 4 times during the spring summer as there are tons of places to see and things to do for an enjoyable weekend.

http://www.cascadeloop.com/

Enjoy the site as it is a blast to drive in a auto designed for driving.

[Robert Hall]

I don't know, an Apple Mac Book Pro is a pretty powerful tool. As a software engineer, I use one everyday... (along w/ Google services and Amazon S3 cloud services) Tthough I prefer Android phones over iPhones. I do like my Kindle, but will probably get an iPad sooner or later. I've had iPods for a decade for music. But I won't drive a Prius like many of my peers (30-40 something software engineers).

Interesting, I do find there are fellow engineers I work with that love their apple computers and can actually use them to do things, yet most people seem to not be able to do much. I on the other hand will stick with my Linux/unix/windows systems. I do agree I love my andriod phone from Samsung. It is a blast of usefullness. I too will pass on the Prius, not a car that can ever fit me.

Well, Macs are pure UNIX goodness inside. At least in my niches (Java web applications, web services, enterprise applications, cloud computing) Macs are the very popular with independent developers, small consulting shops, small companies...when I'm big IT environments it's all Windows. At my current consulting gig, I've developing on a Mac and pushing to Linux servers in Amazon's S3 cloud.

[G. David Felt]

Oh forgot, Monster Trucks are another culturally valuable thing the automobile gave us! Yee-haw!

If you have no passion for individual auto's then why be on this board as a moderator or writer?

Clearly you would do well with the tree huggers in Portland and the Seirra club.

My so called Monster Truck can do far more than anything green or an apple I-Thing.

Try going off road, getting over broken roads with no damage, rescuing people in idiot Nissan Leafs or Prius who go up on the pass and get messed up and complain as to why they should have to deal with snow.

I could bitch and go on and on, but I will agree to disagree with you as most of your comments seem to be anti Auto's.

Clearly you have no concept of satire.

My apologies if I did not take this right, but then I never could read something and see it as Satire. Seems a weird concept for me to understand.

[Robert Hall]

And, taking a drive just for its own sake...

That reminds me...I haven't taken a 'destination unknown' random drive in a long time...I always seem to be busy w/ life and have a specific destination in mind--the office, a restaurant, Starbucks, Target, etc. Haven't driven just for fun in ages..

Driving for just for its own sake is an alien concept to me. I can barely afford the gas it takes for my school commute. I drive with hypermiling techniques as much as is practically possible. If I were to go on a drive just for fun, I wouldn't have any fun because I'd be lamenting all the money I'd be wasting to get basically nowhere.

Time is the limiting factor for me these days. And within 50 miles of me it's all pretty ugly desert.. though there are some interesting backroads up north. When I lived in Colorado I used to do 200-400 mile weekend day trips to search for twisty back roads for fun when I had my M3 and my Mustang GT.

Seattle has many fun roads to drive and scenery to enjoy. The North Cascade Highway loop is an awesome 440 mile drive I think everyone should do once in their life. I always do it every spring after the road opens from the winter and usually will drive it 3 or 4 times during the spring summer as there are tons of places to see and things to do for an enjoyable weekend.

http://www.cascadeloop.com/

Enjoy the site as it is a blast to drive in a auto designed for driving.

I want to come and explore Washington...have only been in Seattle a couple times, haven't seen elsewhere in the state. Amazon recruiters call me a couple times a year, I should go interview w/ them.

[G. David Felt]

Right now Amazon is throwing money after people with solid skill sets, they have greatly expanded their offices on the water front here in Seattle, on Lake Union and on Lake Washington plus in Bellevue and Redmond.

Cannot go wrong with any of the campuses, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, EMC/Isilon, and a ton of other tech companies and cloud based companies here. Come on up and join us.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Seattle's great, wouldn't mind relocating there myself as I have been to the PacNW a lot in the traveling sense. If I get into Aviation as an industry it would be cool to work for Boeing for that matter, let alone all the tech companies. There's just the small matter of visas and that eventual big earthquake LOL

[G. David Felt]

Seattle's great, wouldn't mind relocating there myself as I have been to the PacNW a lot in the traveling sense. If I get into Aviation as an industry it would be cool to work for Boeing for that matter, let alone all the tech companies. There's just the small matter of visas and that eventual big earthquake LOL

No Need to worry about the big earthquake, if it happens nothing anyone can do about it.

Visas should not be a big issue as Boeing and most of the Hi-Tech companies here handle H1 Visa's, very easy to do, Just apply to the companies your interested and let them know you are willing to relocate. I have a bunch of friends from India and all over Europe who got interviews and then relocated here. Course I do know of many recruiters but one especially that specializes in handling the H1 Visas. If your interested in contacting him, let me know and email me at [email protected].

We are one big happy melting pot.

Edited February 9, 2012 by dfelt

[Camino LS6]

I'm as fiscally tight as it gets, but I made a decision not to obsess over fuel costs.

I don't like paying over $4 (or over $2.50 for that matter) for fuel (diesel has been around $3.70 for a while), but it's not a matter of not being able to afford it for me, so obviously that makes it easier. Back to my point; I just decided not to make fuel cost something that bothers me, and I did this for mental freedom's sake, and I have never regretted it. Sure it adds up, but in that my lifestyle/ employment does not allow for ANY other alternative, it's going to be burned either way.

I understand Swordfish's position WRT costs, tho.

I made that same decision long ago, Balthy.

It is far more important to me that a car be enjoyable to drive than be fuel-efficient.

When a car is capable and quick, a twisty back road on a sunny day is my idea of heaven.

And as for the Camaro, the fact that it sells to hundreds of thousands is precisely why I don't want one.

I practice what I preach when it comes to non-conformity.

[vonVeezelsnider]

As much as I appreciate the offer, I'm not quite there yet LOL... Maybe once I have my CFA.

[§carlet §wordfish]

No. The idea that someone's mode of transportation is the defining aspect of their individuality is completely asinine, and I'm not going to let anyone here get away with that.

[Blake Noble]

My car is not a defining aspect of my indivduality, I see it rather as an extention or partial embodiment of it.

[Camino LS6]

...an expression of it.

[Drew Dowdell]

I still feel the bus fare is too cheap and must be raised to cover the costs without increasing tax's.

Sometimes the best way to combat increasing costs of road maintenance is to reduce the usage of the roads in the first place. Every one inbound bus can take 50 Toyota Corollas* off the road during your morning commute. More buses = fewer Corollas in your way while you drive. If my taxes have to go up slightly to get those Corollas out of my way, that is a benefit I'm willing to pay for. There is also a minimum amount of service the buses have to offer for people to opt for it over driving. Every 15 minutes during rush hour, every 30 during mid-day, and hourly at late night.

*read that as people who don't care about driving and find it more of a chore than a pleasure.

[Drew Dowdell]

Back do the original question, do kids hate cars or do they hate today's cars? I think they hate today's cars and their cost more than anything else. What 16 year old wouldn't want a Camaro/Mustang/Challenger? But wander too far away from that, and what else is there for kids? Mini-Cooper maybe? No one gets excited over a Civic coupe instead of a Mustang.. I don't care who you are.

There aren't a lot of interesting options out there right now.

[Robert Hall]

The new Prius C should be a hit w/ the youth market..and maybe cars like the Velocter, Juke, Soul...

[Drew Dowdell]

and 130R....

[67impss]

Too many safety and electrics in new cars drives the cost up I mean even the Sonic has power a$$ wipe

[balthazar]

Growing up the son of a gearhead, my son has not expressed much unsolicited reaction to cars, except the Mustang, Challenger & CTS-V coupe.

[Blake Noble]

and 130R....

The 130R is a car that I not only want, but sort of need considering the instability of gas prices.

cue rant

The Alpha platform and manual gearbox would make for an engaging driving experience while the augmented four-pot and light curb weight would offer top-notch economy. It's a win/win situation, no compromises.

So what if it has a small handful of styling flaws? What car doesn't? That said, it isn't an ugly car by any stretch of the imagination.

The Code 130R wasn't all about show like it's counterpart. This car was and would be all about the hardware, about the experience of driving. A production Tru140S would look good when you finally arrived somewhere, but the Code 130R would make getting somewhere much more fun. The Code 130R is big on "smiles per gallon." It would be a true modern classic, something memorable. It's a car with solid substance. I know some of you won't like me saying this, but the Tru140S would ultimately amount to the world's cheapest penis extention, like all cars built on style and style alone.

I really hope GM builds a car similar to it. While it wouldn't be enough to completely tear me away from ChryCo, it would be enough to get me behind the wheel of a new GM car. At the end of the day, that's what counts.

[Drew Dowdell]

I liked both concepts, however I thought the 130R was the much more unique vehicle.... and by now, you know I always prefer unique even if it isn't considered the most beautiful in the eyes of most.

The fatal flaw for me in the Tru140s was the more than passing resemblance to the now dead Mitsubishi Eclipse. If you're going to build a sporty car, do you really want to make it an updated version of one of the least successful sporty cars on the market?

[Camino LS6]

Back do the original question, do kids hate cars or do they hate today's cars? I think they hate today's cars and their cost more than anything else. What 16 year old wouldn't want a Camaro/Mustang/Challenger? But wander too far away from that, and what else is there for kids? Mini-Cooper maybe? No one gets excited over a Civic coupe instead of a Mustang.. I don't care who you are.

There aren't a lot of interesting options out there right now.

This is certainly true. When cars are designed as appliances, they will be seen as appliances - especially by the young.

[Drew Dowdell]

To put it in perspective, I have overheard 10 year old girls in shopping mall parking lots say "that is a cool car" when I drive by in my Toronado. I get thumbs up from little boys when I was driving the 45th Anniversary Camaro. The New New Beetle caused a ruckus in a Minivan while driving on I-78 in PA. The Sonic, while a good little runabout just won't elicit the same reaction.

Build it and they will come. Uncharacteristically for them, I do think Chevy has a clue with this regarding both the Tru140s and 130R, though the delivery was too "white guy in a business suite" at the presentation.

Mark Reuss is a good guy and a car guy. But they need a Ralph Gilles car guy to do the presentations.

[Robert Hall]

I have no insight into what the kiddies like, but I've noticed the teenage son of my neighbors has a Kia Soul, another down the street a late model Hyundai Tiburon and a friend of mine has a teenage son and daughter with matching his and hers Priuses.

[Drew Dowdell]

Well, I do think that the RWD v FWD debate is really moot to them. They care more about appearance and coolness than that. Almost no kid out there would want a new Caprice or Charger over a new Cooper/Beetle/Fiat 500.

[Robert Hall]

Well, I do think that the RWD v FWD debate is really moot to them. They care more about appearance and coolness than that.

And electronic content...they want features like SYNC etc...

[balthazar]

both my sons absolutely hate the mini cooper, and the one who's seen a pic of the fiat hates it, too. Called it 'ugly' right off.

No; they got no influence from me, either.

[Drew Dowdell]

Electronic content like sync doesn't matter if it is in a car like the Fusion. It's a "mom" car.

[Intrepidation]

Yes it does.

[G. David Felt]

I am hearing more and more the late teens and 20 something crowd want AWD to get to the mountains to play and Great gas milage to get to and from work. I see some that want the cool speed cars, but more and more want an all around vehicle to haul their friends and live an active life style. At least here in Seattle.

[Camino LS6]

I think that the FWD vs. RWD thing will largely (if slowly) be rendered moot by an increasing presence of AWD.

Transverse vs. longitudinal anyone?

[G. David Felt]

I think that the FWD vs. RWD thing will largely (if slowly) be rendered moot by an increasing presence of AWD.

Transverse vs. longitudinal anyone?

I totally agree, I expect to see us drop the whole FWD/RWD in favor of AWD as Hybrids like the Volt become common sense and as we push Clean, Hi output Diesel engines like the Duramax 2.8L, I can see us continue to get better milage as we merge these engines with battery packs and electric motors.

I can see one day driving a full size AWD SUV up the mountain with a 1L Turbo generator that manages 100 miles a gallon and you have a small 5 or 10 gallon tank at most as the space of past fuel tanks are replaced by Battery packs.

HOW does this relate to Kids hate Auto? Simple, as we break the traditional bounderies of auto's giving longer milage on cleaner auto's while delivering the ability for youth to have their active life style, we will see more and more youth come back to designing auto's.

Just as a colllege has come up with a way to put coils in the roads to power electric auto's long range, eventually we will have drive free cars where people will not have to think about driving, just get in, tell it where to go and sit back, sleep, read the news, watch a show, etc.

Kids hate auto's today is due in part to the Cost and the Bland boring cars. Just look at all the bland style that comes out of Japan and yet we can also see the potential in what is coming out of Detroit, Korea and elsewhere.

[Blake Noble]

Electronic content like sync doesn't matter if it is in a car like the Fusion. It's a "mom" car.

I don't think electronic content matters quite as much as everyone is thinking. Granted it seems my generation really values a stereo that offers some sort of iPod/iPhone connectivity, but I don't think they're expecting a stereo with its own indivdual apps.

[G. David Felt]

Electronic content like sync doesn't matter if it is in a car like the Fusion. It's a "mom" car.

I don't think electronic content matters quite as much as everyone is thinking. Granted it seems my generation really values a stereo that offers some sort of iPod/iPhone connectivity, but I don't think they're expecting a stereo with its own indivdual apps.

+1