Cadillac News: Rumorpile: The ATS Rumor Twilight Zone

[William Maley]

William Maley

Editor/Reporter - CheersandGears.com

February 3, 2012

Motor Trend is reporting that a coupe version of the new Cadillac ATS has been put on hold. The reason lies in GM’s stock price dropping like a rock; 30% drop since from its November 2010 initial public offering price. GM hopes by delaying or cancelling projects to save money, that will raise their stock price up.

This is where we begin to enter the twilight zone of ATS rumors. For the past year, we’ve been hearing different models of the ATS moving around from going into development, put on the shelf, or being cancelled. Last year, rumors had said the ATS would come in Sedan, Wagon, Coupe, and Convertible form. So far, rumors have said the wagon is dead, the coupe is on hold, and the Convertible was dead before being resurrected. In other words, we have no idea what is coming.

When asked for comment by Autoblog, Cadillac spokesman David Caldwell gave the usual we don’t talk about future product line. But Caldwell did say “there has been no recent radical shift in strategy" for the ATS.

"We do plan to do variants. We haven't yet called our shot of how we're going to execute that." Caldwell said.

So what does that mean? Well, there will be more variations of the ATS besides the sedan. As to what, its still up in the air.

Source: Motor Trend, Autoblog

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[ZL-1]

It's most likely the volume equation that is screwing up the business case for those variants... Too bad...

[Sal Collaziano]

Cadillac doesn't need both an ATS and CTS coupe. I don't think the next generation CTS will have one so that makes me think we'll see an ATS coupe in time. We just don't need one overlapping the other in the current lineup. I bet an ATS coupe will arrive when the third generation CTS shows up without one...

[Drew Dowdell]

The CTS will be moving up in size a bit. I can definately see room for a CTS coupe and and ATS coupe. Think 3-Series coupe and 6-series.

[smk4565]

The CTS will be moving up in size a bit. I can definately see room for a CTS coupe and and ATS coupe. Think 3-Series coupe and 6-series.

Mercedes makes a C-class coupe and E-class coupe so there is definately room for both. But why does the CTS have to go up in size?

E-class wheelbase: 113.2" Length/Width/Height: 191.7"/73.0"/57.9" 3,825 lbs (base)

CTS wheelbase: 113.4" Length/Width/Height: 191.3"/72.5"/58.0" 3,854 lbs (base)

The CTS is the correct size, aside from the trunk is smaller than competitors. The CTS's price is the problem if the ATS is to be priced against the A4/3-series/C-class. And then do people want to pay $50-60k for a V6 CTS when the CTS was always Cadillac's cheapest car.

Looks like the ATS coupe is on hold for a while, which is a shame. Cadillac must have some fears, otherwise they'd roll out more body styles and engines.

[Camino LS6]

Oh for Christ's sake!

Are we going through this mess again?

Either maximize the bodystyles from each architecture, or just close up shop.

F-Wall St., and build the damn cars already!

[Robert Hall]

A coupe is an essential bodystyle the CTS needs...the new 3 (4?) series coupe is coming soon...

[Sal Collaziano]

The CTS will be moving up in size a bit. I can definately see room for a CTS coupe and and ATS coupe. Think 3-Series coupe and 6-series.

I think an ATS coupe and a Cadillac-type 6-Series coupe would work very nicely.

Mercedes makes a C-class coupe and E-class coupe so there is definately room for both. But why does the CTS have to go up in size?

I think Mercedes is the only mainstream brand with a mid-size coupe (E-Class). Sure Cadillac can do it but considering how much GM appears to dislike coupes I seriously doubt we'll see both an ATS and CTS coupe in showrooms at the same time.

The CTS feels noticeably smaller inside than a 5-Series. It needs to grow to compete affectively.

[smk4565]

3-series and G37 offer coupe and convertible, A5 and C-class coupes, Lexus IS convertible, if that is what the ATS wants to compete with, looks like they need a coupe and/or convertible. Their 5 closes competitors offer it. The BMW 6-series used to be smaller than the CTS, but now it is 1 inch longer, still in the mid-size segment though. But few luxury makes do a mid-size coupe.

[Sal Collaziano]

I see the 6-Series in the same way I see a CLS. If Cadillac were to do that, it would be priced far enough away from the ATS coupe that the two cars would rarely get cross shopped - if at all. A convertible would be nice but I'd rather see a coupe if I had to choose...

[hyperv6]

]Lets just see how this all pans out. Too little info to get crazy yet.

If the ATS sedan takes off well even witht he coupe on hold it will spur them to bring it to market.

The fact is GM has a lot of other highr volume things to get done right now vs worrying about low volume cars. Trucks and an Impala out and doing well will change the value of stock faster than anything.

Also it would have been nice if they had the 2.5 and new 2.0 engine out now do they would not have to fool around with old engines in new cars for a year like the Verano and Malibu.

I would expect a coupe could be delayed but in time it will find it's way to maket. Also keep in mind how often Motor Trend has been wrong or has not gotten the full story in the past.

Edited February 4, 2012 by hyperv6

[Camino LS6]

]Lets just see how this all pans out. Too little info to get crazy yet.

If the ATS sedan takes off well even witht he coupe on hold it will spur them to bring it to market.

The fact is GM has a lot of other highr volume things to get done right now vs worrying about low volume cars. Trucks and an Impala out and doing well will change the value of stock faster than anything.

Also it would have been nice if they had the 2.5 and new 2.0 engine out now do they would not have to fool around with old engines in new cars for a year like the Verano and Malibu.

I would expect a coupe could be delayed but in time it will find it's way to maket. Also keep in mind how often Motor Trend has been wrong or has not gotten the full story in the past.

BS

They need to make a plan, and then stick to it.

Their volume assessments should be tied to architectures, not specific bodystyles. When looked at in that way, the myopic reliance on a single bodystyle becomes absurd. This is a problem of mindset, not reality.

[Drew Dowdell]

I think the idea that the ATS coupe was on hold came from an over eager reporter.

[ocnblu]

Any chance of an ATS monster truck?

As always... sedan, coupe, convertible, wagon are all necessary. Hmmm... shooting brake sounds wicked though.

[hyperv6]

]Lets just see how this all pans out. Too little info to get crazy yet.

If the ATS sedan takes off well even witht he coupe on hold it will spur them to bring it to market.

The fact is GM has a lot of other highr volume things to get done right now vs worrying about low volume cars. Trucks and an Impala out and doing well will change the value of stock faster than anything.

Also it would have been nice if they had the 2.5 and new 2.0 engine out now do they would not have to fool around with old engines in new cars for a year like the Verano and Malibu.

I would expect a coupe could be delayed but in time it will find it's way to maket. Also keep in mind how often Motor Trend has been wrong or has not gotten the full story in the past.

BS

They need to make a plan, and then stick to it.

Their volume assessments should be tied to architectures, not specific bodystyles. When looked at in that way, the myopic reliance on a single bodystyle becomes absurd. This is a problem of mindset, not reality.

The Alpha is more than just a Cadillac. It is a Chevy and more than likely a Buick. Just because one coupe could be delayed does not mean there is not going to be an Alpha coupe.

GM needs cars that show great profit.

I love the CTS coupe to death and would love to have one. I want to see a ATS couple too but the the fact is even the CTS coupe sales are small compared to the sedan. I get excited to see a coupe as they are almost as rare as the wagon. Now CTSV sedans are a dime a dozen. GM needs to invest in products that bring earnings up to where they will bring the stock price up. Companies like GM are built on cars like Cruze, Malibu and the trucks/SUVs. The sooner GM pays off the bail out the better off they will be on Wall St and with the public.

Besides I think the anouncement here is a little premature. Like I stated Motor Trend is often wrong so don't get too excited yet. I expect you will have a coupe at some point and it may be sooner than they are saying.

Edited February 4, 2012 by hyperv6

[Robert Hall]

Any chance of an ATS monster truck?

As always... sedan, coupe, convertible, wagon are all necessary. Hmmm... shooting brake sounds wicked though.

Yes. I'd love to also see a CTS 4dr 'coupe'..i.e. the 4dr w/ the 2dr's fastback rear end...

[Z-06]

I think "kicking off" the Motortrend television is the motive behind the canning of ATS coupe, not GM plan.

[Sal Collaziano]

They're just waiting for the CTS Coupe to go away. The next generation CTS will be larger (mainly inside) and the ATS Coupe will only be a little smaller than the current CTS Coupe.

[Camino LS6]

]Lets just see how this all pans out. Too little info to get crazy yet.

If the ATS sedan takes off well even witht he coupe on hold it will spur them to bring it to market.

The fact is GM has a lot of other highr volume things to get done right now vs worrying about low volume cars. Trucks and an Impala out and doing well will change the value of stock faster than anything.

Also it would have been nice if they had the 2.5 and new 2.0 engine out now do they would not have to fool around with old engines in new cars for a year like the Verano and Malibu.

I would expect a coupe could be delayed but in time it will find it's way to maket. Also keep in mind how often Motor Trend has been wrong or has not gotten the full story in the past.

BS

They need to make a plan, and then stick to it.

Their volume assessments should be tied to architectures, not specific bodystyles. When looked at in that way, the myopic reliance on a single bodystyle becomes absurd. This is a problem of mindset, not reality.

The Alpha is more than just a Cadillac. It is a Chevy and more than likely a Buick. Just because one coupe could be delayed does not mean there is not going to be an Alpha coupe.

GM needs cars that show great profit.

I love the CTS coupe to death and would love to have one. I want to see a ATS couple too but the the fact is even the CTS coupe sales are small compared to the sedan. I get excited to see a coupe as they are almost as rare as the wagon. Now CTSV sedans are a dime a dozen. GM needs to invest in products that bring earnings up to where they will bring the stock price up. Companies like GM are built on cars like Cruze, Malibu and the trucks/SUVs. The sooner GM pays off the bail out the better off they will be on Wall St and with the public.

Besides I think the anouncement here is a little premature. Like I stated Motor Trend is often wrong so don't get too excited yet. I expect you will have a coupe at some point and it may be sooner than they are saying.

You miss the point.

It makes no sense at all to offer the same bodystyle on a plethora of architectures as compared to a variety of bodystyles on a few architectures. And I'll take that even farther, it makes no sense not to offer multiple bodystyles for a single nameplate rather than only having a choice of bodystyles spread over several architectures at the same brand.

This goes double for Cadillac if they ever want to have a comparable range to fight BMW and MB with.

So what if a variant doesn't sell in high numbers, the overall numbers for the nameplate will increase with each variant offered.

This is a really basic concept, and a proven one, which we are talking about here. Waiting for sales results on a sedan prior to offering other variants is tantamount to intentionally missing the boat. I thought GM learned this lesson given what they have been saying about offering more bodystyles built on fewer architectures. But that only works if you actually do it, instead of just talking about it.

If they waste Alpha the way they wasted Zeta, they deserve to suffer the consequences.

[Robert Hall]

This is a really basic concept, and a proven one, which we are talking about here. Waiting for sales results on a sedan prior to offering other variants is tantamount to intentionally missing the boat. I thought GM learned this lesson given what they have been saying about offering more bodystyles built on fewer architectures. But that only works if you actually do it, instead of just talking about it.

If they waste Alpha the way they wasted Zeta, they deserve to suffer the consequences.

Well, this is GM...new or old company, they are good at finding ways to squander opportunities...

[Sal Collaziano]

Well, this is GM...new or old company, they are good at finding ways to squander opportunities...

There's going to be an ATS Coupe...

[smk4565]

Agreed with Camino, GM does like to squander RWD platforms. They gave up fast on the Sigma SRX and STS, Zeta will be pretty short lived, who knows what they do with Alpha.

[Robert Hall]

Agreed with Camino, GM does like to squander RWD platforms. They gave up fast on the Sigma SRX and STS, Zeta will be pretty short lived, who knows what they do with Alpha.

And yet the FWD platforms are eternal...look at how long the W lasted...

[67impss]

Yeah if a Maytag still washes cloths they can put new badges on it new trendy colors and "dash" and it will still sell after all its just a box.

[Drew Dowdell]

wow... all the GM hating stirred up from one false report....

[hyperv6]

wow... all the GM hating stirred up from one false report....

I am waiting for the Occupy GM Movement to start and the attack of the GM headquarters. LOL!

It is little soon to panic.

[Camino LS6]

wow... all the GM hating stirred up from one false report....

Given the track record...

[Sal Collaziano]

Agreed with Camino, GM does like to squander RWD platforms. They gave up fast on the Sigma SRX and STS, Zeta will be pretty short lived, who knows what they do with Alpha.

With the Camaro going on Alpha I don't see the platform going anywhere any time soon...

[Camino LS6]

Camaro being on zeta didn't do much for zeta itself...

[Drew Dowdell]

Alpha is simply a better and lighter platform. If Zeta had been the superior one, it would still be around. Yes I know Zeta handles great, but GM threw out their rule book for Alpha. The engineers got to make the decisions necessary to move Alpha up a notch. Alpha is lighter than Zeta which means they can get all of the handling characteristic that Zeta has plus more and do more with it because it weighs less.

[ocnblu]

I'll prolly never be able to buy a new Cadillac, but that Code 130R sure is a hot one I'd stick in my garage.

Edited February 6, 2012 by ocnblu

[balthazar]

Lemmee get this straight; if the platform gets used for 5 years, it's "old", but if it's dumped after a dozen years (CTS), it's "too soon".

[Camino LS6]

Alpha is simply a better and lighter platform. If Zeta had been the superior one, it would still be around. Yes I know Zeta handles great, but GM threw out their rule book for Alpha. The engineers got to make the decisions necessary to move Alpha up a notch. Alpha is lighter than Zeta which means they can get all of the handling characteristic that Zeta has plus more and do more with it because it weighs less.

True or not, all of that is beside the point. GM fumbled zeta from the start and utterly failed to use it to its potential. They then quickly abandoned it in favor of the then vaporware alpha, so we spend literally years waiting for "great things".

They need to produce this time.

[hyperv6]

From what the engineers have stated on the Alpha was they could design it to be light from the start and that was not an option with the RWD cars they has already. They worked on this car from the wheels up and did it to where they could make it.

As for the Zeta for the most part it is an old car and it has already seen upgrades. I think the were smart to choose to invest in the new platform that will carry them on into the future.

The Electonics make the ZL1 a killer car. Imagine they same with a car that is 600 pounds lighter. As of now you have only seen the base of the Alpha and not even seen a hint to where it can go. The ATS is going to suprise many and when we see the Camaro and V series they will be left speachless.

The bottom line is the Alpha is the Zeta we had asked for and never got.

If they put the money into the Zeta to make it right we would still not have the Alpha and the Zeta would still not be as good.

Let GM at least show us where this is going before we hit the panic button here. Once you see the plan laid out then you can complain.

[Camino LS6]

Sure I can!

They've been futzing-around with this and making promises they didn't keep for years! We've been cheated out of good things we could have had from Zeta while they diddled around, instead of having those good things while they worked on Alpha.

They completely flubbed Zeta, and I'm not letting them forget it until some serious Alpha goodness hit a Chevy showroom. And I mean beyond simply a 6th gen Camaro.

I expect more, much more.

[Robert Hall]

Let GM at least show us where this is going before we hit the panic button here. Once you see the plan laid out then you can complain.

That's assuming they are executing a clearly defined long-term product plan and not simply in quarterly chaos as often is the case in corporate America...

They completely flubbed Zeta, and I'm not letting them forget it until some serious Alpha goodness hit a Chevy showroom. And I mean beyond simply a 6th gen Camaro.

<cynical-realist>

I can't imagine any Chevy Alphas beyond the Camaro...Chevy has a full suite of FWD appliances for the sedan market.

</cynical-realist>

Edited February 6, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Camino LS6]

If there isn't some more to Alpha at Chevy than Camaro, I guess I'll just have to stick to building my own cars.

[hyperv6]

If there isn't some more to Alpha at Chevy than Camaro, I guess I'll just have to stick to building my own cars.

Twinkie?

I expect a Chevy based sports sedan in RWD at some point. Think Camaro like 4 door. I could see that one doing well as there are many who pass on the Camaro because of the two doors. The G8 proved there is a market and this car could be sold globally very easy with a Holden and Vauxhall badge.

There have been hints of a car like this but we just have not been given a time line. One of the engineers spoke openly about one a little while ago. I had expected it on the Zeta but now I suspect could we see it on the Alpha?

[dwightlooi]

I don't think there is any chance that they'll cancel the coupe and other variants of the ATS. This is especially true at this stage in the development cycle where much of the development costs are already sunken costs.

However, I fully expect a staggered introduction, meaning that there won't be a coupe, convertible or wagon in the first model year and they won't all show up in the 2nd model year either. This actually makes sense; in fact, this is preferrable to launching all fourr variants the same year and not having enough engineering or marketing resources to go around leading to a patch job on each.

[hyperv6]

I don't think there is any chance that they'll cancel the coupe and other variants of the ATS. This is especially true at this stage in the development cycle where much of the development costs are already sunken costs.

However, I fully expect a staggered introduction, meaning that there won't be a coupe, convertible or wagon in the first model year and they won't all show up in the 2nd model year either. This actually makes sense; in fact, this is preferrable to launching all fourr variants the same year and not having enough engineering or marketing resources to go around leading to a patch job on each.

.

That was already a given. GM made that clear 1-2 years ago on the ATS and other future models form them. Mark I think was the one who stared this.