Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale 2012

[Robert Hall]

I spent a few hours at Barrett-Jackson today...great cool, cloudy weather. About 1300 cars this year...nice selection.

In the main exhibit hall, Ford and Chevy had some large new car displays...incl. lots of 2012 and 2013 Mustangs...the '13 Shelby GT500 and Boss 302 were particularly of interest, along w/ the '12 versions.... interesting styling changes on the '13 Mustangs.

Amongst the new Chevys, I got to see the Spark, Sonic, '13 Malibu, and Camaro ZL1 in person for the first time... sat in the new Malibu..pretty nice inside, but the rear seat area and rear door openings seem very tight...

As far as the vintage cars being auctioned, beyond the usual dozens of Camaros, Novas, A-bodies, and Corvettes there were plenty of '50s-60s big GMs....in particular, a white '57 Eldorado Brougham, several early '60s Cadillac convertibles, several '59-66 Bonnevilles and Catalinas, a red '67 Grand Prix convertible, a white '62 Starfire ht, dark red '62 Starfire conv. Several '61-62 Bel Airs and Impalas.

There was a nice group of '75-78 Eldorados also, incl. a low mileage triple brown '78 Biarittz. There was a very clean lt blue w/ white top '76 2dr Electra Limited.

Lots of nice vintage Fords, Mopies, along w/ more '30s-40s Packards and other classic cars this year compared to the last time I went ('08). There was a Tucker, a '54 Desoto Adventurer II Ghia-bodied car, a silver Merc 300SL gullwing.. amongst the really old, there was in interesting 1928 Buick sports roadster (though it looked like it was more from 1918 than 1928). The '39 Buick 4dr convertible Indy Pace Car was gorgeous also.

My feet and back are tired from walking...

I took a few pics before my phone died..forgot to charge it last night. Lots of pics on the Barrett-Jackson site, though---http://www.barrett-jackson.com/events/scottsdale/

Edited January 23, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

'48 Tucker #43 : $2.9 million

'54 Adventurer II has bounced around with numerous owners over the years- still : $1.43 M

'69 Camaro ZL-1 : $451K

'65 Shelby GT350 : $385K

[Robert Hall]

'48 Tucker #43 : $2.9 million

'54 Adventurer II has bounced around with numerous owners over the years- still : $1.43 M

'69 Camaro ZL-1 : $451K

'65 Shelby GT350 : $385K

I think that was the silver ZL1 w/ the column shift..saw it today...there was an orange one also. The '65 Shelby may have been the unrestored one..saw a white one w/ faded blue stripes..

Edited January 23, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Robert Hall]

This was the '28 Buick speedster...

The '57 Desoto was one of my favorites..

[ocnblu]

Two drop-dead gorgeous machines.

[Robert Hall]

This was one of the 3 '62 Starfires there...beautiful car..

This is the '39 Buick IPC..

The '67 Grand Prix convertible...this was the first time I'd seen one in person..

[balthazar]

[Robert Hall]

Alas, my photos were all indoors..didn't turn out that great..my phone battery was near-dead. Here's a couple...

unrestored '65 Shelby GT350

'60 Pontiac Bonneville convertible

'48 Tucker

Mercedes-Benz 300SL

'57 DeSoto Adventurer convertible

'47 Bentley w/ special bodywork

'54 DeSoto Adventurer II w/ Ghia body

'12 Camaro ZL1

Edited January 23, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Robert Hall]

Speaking of the Tucker, I saw another one last year at the Gooding & Company auction..it was blue also, in rough unrestored shape...it was a barn find, long thought lost..

Edited January 23, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

^ it's whereabouts were known by those in the 'inner circle', but indeed it was barn/garage kept since about 1960.

I've seen 1 in person, in a PA museum years ago.

[daves87rs]

Love them all!

[Turbojett]

That Gullwing SL looks lovely, as does the DeSoto.

[Robert Hall]

That Gullwing SL looks lovely, as does the DeSoto.

There were also a pair of '56 DeSotos...a white & gold Adventurer ht and a lavender/mauve Fireflite convertible... and a black / gold '56 convertible and red '55 ht, though I don't remember seeing the last two...

Edited January 23, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[BigPontiac]

How did the '54 DeSoto w/Ghia body look in person? Looks interesting in pictures.

[Robert Hall]

How did the '54 DeSoto w/Ghia body look in person? Looks interesting in pictures.

Impressive...fairly low...fairly long...was parked next to the '57 DeSoto... some interesting trim detailing.

[Camino LS6]

^ it's whereabouts were known by those in the 'inner circle', but indeed it was barn/garage kept since about 1960.

I've seen 1 in person, in a PA museum years ago.

The old Gast Museum?

[GMTruckGuy74]

^ it's whereabouts were known by those in the 'inner circle', but indeed it was barn/garage kept since about 1960.

I've seen 1 in person, in a PA museum years ago.

^ it's whereabouts were known by those in the 'inner circle', but indeed it was barn/garage kept since about 1960.

I've seen 1 in person, in a PA museum years ago.

The old Gast Museum?

I've seen four Tuckers in person to date.. My first sighting was at Gast in Strasburg, PA (no longer there) - that one (#1024/Waltz Blue) is now in Lincoln, Nebraska http://www.tuckerclu...ar_number=1024; an unklnown silver one at the 1991 AACA Show in Hershey; #1030/Black at Petersen's Museum (LA) in 1997 http://www.tuckerclu...ar_number=1030; and 1013/Light Blue at the Philly Auto Show a couple years back (this belongs to teh Swigart Museum outside of Carlisle, PA - they also have the pre=production "Tin Goose" which I have yet to see - [urlhttp://www.tuckerclub.org/html/display_car.php?car_number=Tin%20Goose&[/url]) - http://www.tuckerclu...ar_number=1013; unofficially I have a 5th sighting, of the controversial Tucker Convertible (#1057), seen at the 2010 AACA Show in Hershey. There's a guy up north NJ that has #1051 - http://www.tuckerclu...ar_number=1051 - that was not completed originally in the factory but was made up of leftover parts from the original production run. I've written to the gentleman about 3-4 years ago, but he never gets down south NJ and he didn't invite me to his place to see the car in person.

Edited January 23, 2012 by GMTruckGuy74

[SAmadei]

Is the '57 DeSoto custom? It was my understanding that dual headlights was not made legal until the 1958 model year.

[vonVeezelsnider]

I have to say I'm a little bit surprised that the hearse only ended up going for like 160k. I was expecting double that, easily; especially considering that the 1963 Pontiac Naval Ambulance that they tried to sell last year which was proven to be a fake went for 120k in its own right.

That Adventurer is also possibly one of the most gorgeous designs of the era. I've always been a fan.

[Robert Hall]

Is the '57 DeSoto custom? It was my understanding that dual headlights was not made legal until the 1958 model year.

Many Chrysler products had both dual and quad headlight versions in '57..depended on the state they were sold in...(some states allowed quad lights, some didn't, I've read)..they look strange w/o the quad lights, IMO.

The Ambulance was interesting...never seen one of that era upclose, the roof and rear pillars looked like it was textured..not a vinyl top, but like their was grained paint over the surface (or the surface was grained).

Edited January 23, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

^ it's whereabouts were known by those in the 'inner circle', but indeed it was barn/garage kept since about 1960.

I've seen 1 in person, in a PA museum years ago.

The old Gast Museum?

Yep.

[balthazar]

Is the '57 DeSoto custom? It was my understanding that dual headlights was not made legal until the 1958 model year.

Many Chrysler products had both dual and quad headlight versions in '57..depended on the state they were sold in...(some states allowed quad lights, some didn't, I've read)..they look strange w/o the quad lights, IMO.

This was also a factor of when the model was introduced. The states were legalizing quads lights rapidly in '57, and the Adventurer debuted in Feb '57; all 'A's had quad headlights. Also, all '57 Eldorado Broughams had quads, tho I believe they were intro'd closer to the rest of the line- not sure how that was addressed... or if Cadillac had a degree of carte blanche there due to it's position.

[Hudson]

^ it's whereabouts were known by those in the 'inner circle', but indeed it was barn/garage kept since about 1960.

I've seen 1 in person, in a PA museum years ago.

The old Gast Museum?

Yep.

I think that's where I saw my first one. There are a couple in a museum in Maine and two more at another musuem in Pennsylvania.

[Robert Hall]

^ it's whereabouts were known by those in the 'inner circle', but indeed it was barn/garage kept since about 1960.

I've seen 1 in person, in a PA museum years ago.

The old Gast Museum?

Yep.

I think that's where I saw my first one. There are a couple in a museum in Maine and two more at another museum in Pennsylvania.

I think the Petersen in LA may have one...can't recall if I've seen one there, though...I think Jay Leno may have one, and I've read that George Lucas and Francis Ford Coppola (of 'Tucker' movie fame) used to have a couple...

[GMTruckGuy74]

^ it's whereabouts were known by those in the 'inner circle', but indeed it was barn/garage kept since about 1960.

I've seen 1 in person, in a PA museum years ago.

The old Gast Museum?

Yep.

I think that's where I saw my first one. There are a couple in a museum in Maine and two more at another museum in Pennsylvania.

I think the Petersen in LA may have one...can't recall if I've seen one there, though...I think Jay Leno may have one, and I've read that George Lucas and Francis Ford Coppola (of 'Tucker' movie fame) used to have a couple...

Check here for a complete listing of all known Tuckers (click on the pictures for more info & pics). #1024 was the one purchased by the Gast Collection in October of 1989 and they sold it in October, 1997 (I got to see it one last time at Gast in June '97).

Jay Leno wants to buy one, as was the word on the street in 2010 (it was rumored he was flying in to Hershey to check out the convertible, but those rumors were false).

George Lucas owns #1009 and I believe it is on display at Skywalker Ranch. Francis Ford-Coppola owns two - #1014 and #1037. Both him and George produced the 1988 movie, "Tucker: The Man and his Dream", as they have quite a passion for their Tuckers.

[Robert Hall]

Wasn't there some controversy about the convertible? It was a recreation of something that never was? I don't recall the story..

[balthazar]

^ Yes- it's a custom job, not built by the factory. It is not recognized as a real Tucker by the TACA.

There's a Tucker about 25 minutes from me, but I don't believe it's available for public viewing. Ida Automotive has it; they build the Tucker replicas.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Wasn't there some controversy about the convertible? It was a recreation of something that never was? I don't recall the story..

#1057 (convertible) is not recognized by the Tucker Club of America (TACA), as balthazar already pointed out. It is supposedly constructed out of a totalled Tucker (I think #1042) using leftover parts sourced from other collections and fabricated parts to make the convertible top. The owner states that this Tucker body was pulled off the line in '48 and sent out to another shop to be custom made (TACA has no documentation of this, and those that were around at that time state only one Tucker body was pulled off the line to make changes for the '49 model year [this is documented, along with pictures, that show a panoramic-type rear window]). Why Tucker would send a car outside of his shop is the question, as he had designers in his own shop in Chicago. Anyway, the owner of the 'vert wouldn't allow TACA members to come and inspect the car, so there's definitely tension between the two parties about the truth behind the convertible. TACA's website (forum) has a whole interesting story on this.

^ Yes- it's a custom job, not built by the factory. It is not recognized as a real Tucker by the TACA.

There's a Tucker about 25 minutes from me, but I don't believe it's available for public viewing. Ida Automotive has it; they build the Tucker replicas.

Do you know what # Tucker they have? I saw the Ida Automotive Tucker at the 2011 NYIAS - it was in the basement in the Dub section. Pretty impressive car, though it's only link to "Tucker" is the body The guy that owns #1051 lives up near you I think... while his isn't officially one of the factory made Tuckers in '48, the chasis and body were produced in the factory and were on the line when it was shut down. TACA members recognize his Tucker as an official Tucker, but being that it was constructed from sourced parts out of peoples collections and finally built in the '80s, they don't consider it to be one of the original 51 Tuckers (the Tin Goose prototype and the 50 factory-produced cars). A side note, he claims it was featured in the '88 movie but that has been debunked on TACA and those owners that were actually at the filming with their cars.

[67impss]

I saw #1016 at the Henry Ford Museum twice in '74 & '82. I'd like to see a few more it's such a cool car

[balthazar]

Wasn't there some controversy about the convertible? It was a recreation of something that never was? I don't recall the story..

#1057 (convertible) is not recognized by the Tucker Club of America (TACA), as balthazar already pointed out. It is supposedly constructed out of a totalled Tucker (I think #1042) using leftover parts sourced from other collections and fabricated parts to make the convertible top. The owner states that this Tucker body was pulled off the line in '48 and sent out to another shop to be custom made (TACA has no documentation of this, and those that were around at that time state only one Tucker body was pulled off the line to make changes for the '49 model year [this is documented, along with pictures, that show a panoramic-type rear window]). Why Tucker would send a car outside of his shop is the question, as he had designers in his own shop in Chicago. Anyway, the owner of the 'vert wouldn't allow TACA members to come and inspect the car, so there's definitely tension between the two parties about the truth behind the convertible. TACA's website (forum) has a whole interesting story on this.

^ Yes- it's a custom job, not built by the factory. It is not recognized as a real Tucker by the TACA.

There's a Tucker about 25 minutes from me, but I don't believe it's available for public viewing. Ida Automotive has it; they build the Tucker replicas.

Do you know what # Tucker they have? I saw the Ida Automotive Tucker at the 2011 NYIAS - it was in the basement in the Dub section. Pretty impressive car, though it's only link to "Tucker" is the body The guy that owns #1051 lives up near you I think... while his isn't officially one of the factory made Tuckers in '48, the chasis and body were produced in the factory and were on the line when it was shut down. TACA members recognize his Tucker as an official Tucker, but being that it was constructed from sourced parts out of peoples collections and finally built in the '80s, they don't consider it to be one of the original 51 Tuckers (the Tin Goose prototype and the 50 factory-produced cars). A side note, he claims it was featured in the '88 movie but that has been debunked on TACA and those owners that were actually at the filming with their cars.

I believe #1057 uses a lot of parts off of #1027- only known stuff that has survived from #1042 is the trans & frame... and the frame isn't under #1057.

Sending it out indeed is illogical; it would've been sent to Tucker's Ypsilanti shop (where the Tin Goose was built) before anywhere else. I have read long discussions on the convert, have seen in the construction photos as it was being converted from a 4-door. I agree with the TACA position.

I assumed the Tucker Ida owns was the only NJ Tucker listed: #1051. I saw their first repro, the dark blue job powered by a Northstar engine, at Lead East right after it was done.

Rog- I see you are a big Tucker fan, too - cool. I have a letter that Alex Tremulis wrote to me personally back when I was going into automotive design, one of my auto treasures. Have loved the Tucker for decades now.

Edited January 25, 2012 by balthazar

[SAmadei]

My only gripe with the Tucker... no coupe. :-(

[67impss]

They were ahead of their time

[Robert Hall]

My only gripe w/ the Tucker is they were spectacularly ugly, IMO. But interesting nonetheless for the rear engine design and other features.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Turbojett]

I don't really think they were ugly. different, certainly, but not ugly.

[balthazar]

A coupe would've come, without a doubt. Tremulis did pen a next gen Tucker as a coupe:

[Turbojett]

that. is. HOT.

[vonVeezelsnider]

That coupe is ahead of its time, I'm seeing certain aspects of the C2 Corvette in it.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Actually, this was Tucker's next automotive desire: The 1955 Tucker Carioca:

As such, it was never built, most likely due to his death in 1956 (and of course being broke from the '48 venture too didn't help).

Edited January 26, 2012 by GMTruckGuy74

[GMTruckGuy74]

Wasn't there some controversy about the convertible? It was a recreation of something that never was? I don't recall the story..

#1057 (convertible) is not recognized by the Tucker Club of America (TACA), as balthazar already pointed out. It is supposedly constructed out of a totalled Tucker (I think #1042) using leftover parts sourced from other collections and fabricated parts to make the convertible top. The owner states that this Tucker body was pulled off the line in '48 and sent out to another shop to be custom made (TACA has no documentation of this, and those that were around at that time state only one Tucker body was pulled off the line to make changes for the '49 model year [this is documented, along with pictures, that show a panoramic-type rear window]). Why Tucker would send a car outside of his shop is the question, as he had designers in his own shop in Chicago. Anyway, the owner of the 'vert wouldn't allow TACA members to come and inspect the car, so there's definitely tension between the two parties about the truth behind the convertible. TACA's website (forum) has a whole interesting story on this.

^ Yes- it's a custom job, not built by the factory. It is not recognized as a real Tucker by the TACA.

There's a Tucker about 25 minutes from me, but I don't believe it's available for public viewing. Ida Automotive has it; they build the Tucker replicas.

Do you know what # Tucker they have? I saw the Ida Automotive Tucker at the 2011 NYIAS - it was in the basement in the Dub section. Pretty impressive car, though it's only link to "Tucker" is the body The guy that owns #1051 lives up near you I think... while his isn't officially one of the factory made Tuckers in '48, the chasis and body were produced in the factory and were on the line when it was shut down. TACA members recognize his Tucker as an official Tucker, but being that it was constructed from sourced parts out of peoples collections and finally built in the '80s, they don't consider it to be one of the original 51 Tuckers (the Tin Goose prototype and the 50 factory-produced cars). A side note, he claims it was featured in the '88 movie but that has been debunked on TACA and those owners that were actually at the filming with their cars.

I believe #1057 uses a lot of parts off of #1027- only known stuff that has survived from #1042 is the trans & frame... and the frame isn't under #1057.

Sending it out indeed is illogical; it would've been sent to Tucker's Ypsilanti shop (where the Tin Goose was built) before anywhere else. I have read long discussions on the convert, have seen in the construction photos as it was being converted from a 4-door. I agree with the TACA position.

I assumed the Tucker Ida owns was the only NJ Tucker listed: #1051. I saw their first repro, the dark blue job powered by a Northstar engine, at Lead East right after it was done.

Rog- I see you are a big Tucker fan, too - cool. I have a letter that Alex Tremulis wrote to me personally back when I was going into automotive design, one of my auto treasures. Have loved the Tucker for decades now.

#1051 is owned by a guy named Carlos DeLorenzo in Butler, NJ; here is information I was provided by a TACA member back in 2006:

The car in New Jersey is now owned by Carlos DeLorenzo in Butler, NJ. Just don't believe all he will tell you about the car. It was in Richmond, CA for the movie but sat in the back area of the building was was not used in any of the scenes in the movie. The car that he refers to as Tucker 1051 is actually body #54 that was purchased in 1952/53 by Clyde Poll of Zeeland Mi. from Ezra Schlipf. The body was never on the assembly line and was minus doors, fenders, and many other items. Mr. Poll started to build the car but gave up and sold it incomplete to DeLorenzo. DeLorenzo completed the car and has displayed it as one of the cars in the movie. This is not so.

I have been in love with the '48 Tucker since my parents took me to see the 1988 movie when it came out (I was 13 y-o at the time, and the '57 Chevy Bel Air was my favorite car until seeing the Tucker on the motion screen). I wish I could devote more time to learning the knowledge of all Tuckers, but for the time being I'll be content with what I know and can find out from TACA (to which I am an offical member). One of my goals this year is to finally go and see the Cammack Collection in Alexandria, VA, in addition to getting out to the Swigart Museum to see the original Tin Goose. I've also learned that a Tucker is on display at the America on Wheels museum in Allentown, PA, so that will be worth a trip out that way soon too. I'm wondering if there would be an interest by any other northeastern C&G members to visit the Cammack Collection? Those are private tours only.

When I sold new Buicks, Pontiacs & GMCs in '99-'00, I sold a new LeSabre to an older gentleman that was also a Tucker fan (he claims he had one of the Tucker models sold by the factory that he ordered as a young boy). He told me of the time he saw one in Trenton, at the franchise at the time. He couldn't remember where it was located, given that his memory "wasn't what it once was". Though I have never made it a must learn goal, I would eventually like to know where in Trenton this supposed Tucker dealership was.

Edited January 26, 2012 by GMTruckGuy74

[Turbojett]

Actually, this was Tucker's next automotive desire: The 1955 Tucker Carioca:

As such, it was never built, most likely due to his death in 1956 (and of course being broke from the '48 venture too didn't help).

hmph. we could have had a Lotus Seven before there even was a Lotus Seven.

[balthazar]

Well, the Talisman I posted was penned circa '50 and by Tremulis. The Carioca was undoubtedly penned afterward, at Tucker's direction. Kinda independent directions, but the Carioca was to be built in Brazil, where Tucker moved to in the early '50s. Neither here nor there.

Rog, I read 'Chick' DeLorenzo passed away very recently, so maybe #51 will see the auction block soon.

Rob Idaa's father was to be a Tucker dealer, I guess I misremembered that he owned an original.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Well, the Talisman I posted was penned circa '50 and by Tremulis. The Carioca was undoubtedly penned afterward, at Tucker's direction. Kinda independent directions, but the Carioca was to be built in Brazil, where Tucker moved to in the early '50s. Neither here nor there.

Rog, I read 'Chick' DeLorenzo passed away very recently, so maybe #51 will see the auction block soon.

Rob Idaa's father was to be a Tucker dealer, I guess I misremembered that he owned an original.

Just found an article about teh Rob Ida Tucker that shows Chicl DeLorenzo's Tucker in the photo: http://njmonthly.com/articles/lifestyle/dream-machines.html

Also, here's Chick's obit: http://www.northjersey.com/obituaries/136922698_Carlo_DeLorenzo__76.html; http://www.richardsfuneralhome.com/delorenzo_carlo_f.htm{/url] (reference to his Tucker ownership in this one)

Edited January 27, 2012 by GMTruckGuy74