What if....

[Drew Dowdell]

What if the government mandated that all V8s, V6s, and I6s sold after a certain date become E85 capable.

This would jump start E85 filling station building.

It would help start to ween the worst offending gas consumers off petrolium.

GM would look great because they're most of the way there.

Eventually, the 4 cylinders would follow suit simply because of demand.

[Drew Dowdell]

7 views and no one has an opinion?

[Croc]

Screw E85...biodiesel all the way.

[PurdueGuy]

considering how little it takes to make a new design E85 compatible, I'd think it would be a good idea. I dunno if there is enough production capability to stock every station with a tankful of E85, but since this whole deal would be gradual, it'd probably work ok (especially since it's not like an E85 vehicle HAS to have E85...)

[pow]

Is there enough corn? Are there other, more feasible ways of producing ethanol? What about sugar cane crops?

The idea sounds great, though. And it's not like it's particularly difficult to make a car E85 compatible. Kinda reminds me of the leaded/unleaded fuel situation.

Edited April 14, 2006 by empowah

[Drew Dowdell]

Is there enough corn? Are there other, more feasible ways of producing ethanol? What about sugar cane crops?

Sugar

Corn

Potatoes

I think even soy

some wood pulp waste product

edit: the E85 site just says "vegitables", so it could be many more than my list

Edited April 14, 2006 by Oldsmoboi

[Croc]

No modifications are required for a diesel engine to run on biodiesel. In fact, depending on how long it takes to ramp up, a diesel engine can run on a mixture of bio- and non-bio-diesel...that's what happens in Europe.

[Drew Dowdell]

No modifications are required for a diesel engine to run on biodiesel.  In fact, depending on how long it takes to ramp up, a diesel engine can run on a mixture of bio- and non-bio-diesel...that's what happens in Europe.

oh, I agree that Biodiesel would be great also.... but there are still lots of dumb people out there that don't like diesels because their "grandmother had a diesel VW Rabbit back in '81 and it always broke down".

Just thinking of ways for Calista Flockheart to drive her Escalade on a domestic fuel without requiring her to think.

[loki]

mass e-85 use isn't feesable, there's also an article on biofuels in the new popular mechanics. there was an article on Digg.com that said if everyone use all ethonal, we'd be down to 1% use of land for living space, the rest would have to be farmed to make enough fuel for the average person to drive 12k a year etc etc etc

[Drew Dowdell]

mass e-85 use isn't feesable, there's also an article on biofuels in the new popular mechanics.    there was an article on Digg.com that said if everyone use all ethonal, we'd be down to 1% use of land for living space, the rest would have to be farmed to make enough fuel for the average person to drive 12k a year  etc etc etc

uhm, but Brazil does it....

edit:

and everything you read on the internet is real......

Edited April 14, 2006 by Oldsmoboi

[Paolino]

edit:

and everything you read on the internet is real......

Is it?! Yes... that means I too can have a 10 inch dick and win a PS3 by clicking "here".

[Drew Dowdell]

mass e-85 use isn't feesable, there's also an article on biofuels in the new popular mechanics.    there was an article on Digg.com that said if everyone use all ethonal, we'd be down to 1% use of land for living space, the rest would have to be farmed to make enough fuel for the average person to drive 12k a year  etc etc etc

and anyway, the whole point of E85 is that you can switch back to gasoline as needed.

Wouldn't it be nice if there were some competition against the price of petrol gas?

[Croc]

With biodiesel you can switch back and forth between standard diesel and biodiesel with no modifications to engine or software at all. Then there'd be competition between diesel and biodiesel. Also, due to farm space, the US could be the global leader in biodiesel. No more farm subsidies. We'd be exporting fuel. How glorious?!

[PurdueGuy]

I think making all engines E85 or biodiesel capable (obviously depending on the engine type) by a certain date would be a great idea. I don't think making all vehicles biodiesels would be a good idea - it again puts too much dependance upon one fuel type, plus a lot of people would throw a fit about having to buy diesel (warranted fits or not), and it wouldn't get support. Would the whole infrastructure turn into E85 & biodiesel? No, but the more numerous fuel sources are, the better. Imagine if ALL our fuel came from, say, the middle east. You think prices are high now... Diversified fuel sources is the way to go.

[Croc]

Dependance on a completely renewable fuel type. As long as rapeseed is grown and can be refined, then biodiesel will be available.

[Mr.Krinkle]

we need to have choices. the point is energy is limited.

there is no one source of fuel that will solve these problems.

oil is limited. corn and the e85 in great in theory but is not plentiful enough to be the only solution.

its renewable but for how long? who the hell knows.

i think the best we can do is have a variety of ways to power the machines that we depend on. nuclear is the best thing weve come up with but its lack of practicality is the sore thumb. who the hell wants radioactive waste piling up in their backyard. ( and the other stuff too) so, in effect that is limited as well.

maybe even more so.

who wants "mini hiroshimas" every time theres a fender bender? (unless they could solve that one)

in a sense we are only procrastinating until the next solution. just buying some time until someone figures it out. coal was bad enough, steam--oil, solar maybe.

i dont even have a clue how that could be harnessed effectively.

moderation and conservation will only last so long.

there is no cure all unless we can harness telepathy and mental pathwaves. god only knows what problems those would reveal.-- we better getta move on.

of course this is way down the road. way way off before it realy becomes a true problem. i do think e 85 is a great start. where the hell is doc brown???

bastards.

[Croc]

we need to have choices.  the point is energy is limited.

there is no one source of fuel that will solve these problems.

oil is limited.  corn and the e85 in great in theory but is not plentiful enough to be the only solution. 

its renewable but for how long?  who the hell knows.

energy is NOT limited. Fossil fuels ARE.

There MAY be one fuel. You haven't researched biodiesel at all I can tell. The yield is MUCH greater than E85.

Since biodiesel comes from rapeseed, it is renewable essentially forever. Mustard and other kinda of seeds in that family can produce biodiesel as well, but rape is the most efficient with one of the largest yields per crop.

Go research biodiesel. I have. There is no reason we shouldn't switch to biodiesel. If we do, the USA would be the world leader in the fuel supply.

[Mr.Krinkle]

yourre right i dont know much about it but the fact still remains, how long can you tax a plot of land?

the soil will eventually give up. am i wrong?

ive seen the people filling their tanks on used veg oil and such. i know it works.

but can it really replace fossil fuels with no consequence.

or will we have to import rapeseed. im not arguing, i really dont know if it is feasble, or not.

i really do like the smell of gasoline, but hell, id love to be able to take my orange peels and coffee grinds and throw them in the tank and have nothing left over other then the sweet smell of a spring rain or bakery fresh cinnamon rolls but is that really possible?

Edited April 15, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[Drew Dowdell]

The point is, don't use just one type of fuel.

Imagine if the US had a mix of petrol/diesel vehicles like Europe does.

40% of the vehicles could use two kinds of fuel <fossil diesel or biodiesel>

60% of the vehicles could use two other kinds of fuel <E85 or gasoline>

It would lessen the volitility of the market.

It would put a dent in the importance of the mid-east.

Choice and variety is never a bad thing.

The beauty of flexible fuel vehicles of both the E85 and Biodiesel variety is that you can run any ratio of Biofuel to fossil fuel. As the price of one goes up, you can begin using another.... without having to do anything more then pull up to the next pump!

Edited April 16, 2006 by Oldsmoboi

[Flybrian]

The point is, don't use just one type of fuel.

Imagine if the US had a mix of petrol/diesel vehicles like Europe does.

40% of the vehicles could use two kinds of fuel <fossil diesel or biodiesel>

60% of the vehicles could use two other kinds of fuel <E85 or gasoline>

It would lessen the volitility of the market.

It would put a dent in the importance of the mid-east.

Choice and variety is never a bad thing.

That's an extrodinarily poignent comment. We stand currently at the mercy of massive price fluctuations because gasoline holds a virtual monopoly on the automobile fuel market.

[Drew Dowdell]

Doing a retrofit on an older diesel is fairly minor to be able to use Biodiesel, but we're still talking about future vehicles.

All current diesels can run biodiesel... and in you live in Montana, use fossil diesel in the winter months and biodiesel in the summer months.

I think what I'm not getting through is just how flexible you can be with biodiesel/fossil diesel.

I'm not saying eliminate diesel pumps or eliminate gasoline pumps. Have the stations offer all 4 varieties.

You pick the fuel that is most cost effective for you.

[Croc]

That will work until the fossil fuels run out, likely by 2050.

---

As far as summer/winter blends...first of all those blends you mention are just that--blends with biodiesel. Biodiesel on its own could be used without those other fossil fuels. As far as gelling in the winter: that seems like a relatively minor issue, since I'm sure there is some anti-gelling additive that can be added.

[Drew Dowdell]

That will work until the fossil fuels run out, likely by 2050.

---

As far as summer/winter blends...first of all those blends you mention are just that--blends with biodiesel.  Biodiesel on its own could be used without those other fossil fuels.  As far as gelling in the winter: that seems like a relatively minor issue, since I'm sure there is some anti-gelling additive that can be added.

As the fossil fuels run out, we can switch even more to bio fuels. Though, if we start now/soon we can stretch out the timeline for fossil fuels by a lot.

[Croc]

OK True that I guess...

but why would we want to? America would be the leader in biodiesel, so wouldn't we want the switch to happen quickly? Plus the fewer fossil fuels means the less carbon going into the air.

Plus...if fossil fuels DON'T run out because of a quick switch, then all those classic cars with the gas engines could still be run occasionally.

[Newbiewar]

Dependance on a completely renewable fuel type.  As long as rapeseed is grown and can be refined, then biodiesel will be available.

i think its prefered to be called canola oil...

Edited April 16, 2006 by Newbiewar

[Croc]

Except it isn't canola oil. It is made from rapeseed...and can be similar to canola. I know the name sucks...but that's what it's called. My friends and I have agreed that the biodiesel people should lobby to change the name to fuelseed...similar to how the prune people lobbied to change prunes to "dried plums" because let's be honest...prunes has a negative connotation too.

[Drew Dowdell]

OK True that I guess...

but why would we want to?  America would be the leader in biodiesel, so wouldn't we want the switch to happen quickly?  Plus the fewer fossil fuels means the less carbon going into the air.

Plus...if fossil fuels DON'T run out because of a quick switch, then all those classic cars with the gas engines could still be run occasionally.

Hey, if I had my choice, I'd run all my cars on E85 or Biodiesel. That isn't a possibility right now as none of my vehicles are flex fuel.

The next Avalanche is flex fuel and supposedly the HF series will be flex fuel in a future revision.

There's two E85 vehicles for me.

I guess that leaves a Passat TDI for my partner.

One huge problem for us. Even if we replace our current vehicles with flex fuel vehicles. There is no place for us to buy these alternative fuels in our area.

[Mr.Krinkle]

yup, thats pretty much the deal.

popular mechanics evaluates all this alternative fuels this month.

as far as biodiesel is concerned, they say...its good but still will cost more than what gas costs now. about 3.50/gal.

some pretty good stuff there. but they too basically summed it up with drum roll* variety.