Buick News: Teased again: Buick's upcoming Encore

[Robert Hall]

I like the two-tone interior trim and the plood.

[intrigued]

As alway I'll have to reserve judgment till I see this in person but the proportions don't do anything for me. It looks small and awkward. probably underpowered depending on the curb weight. So far it's my least favorite of all the domestic offerings.

[frogger]

I don't mind it but I think it would look better as a regular hatchback without the extra 3 inches of wheel gap. It's a little too tall/skinny.

[Justin Bimmer]

The seat backs are different on the driver and passenger seat.

[G. David Felt]

I now see the full picture of this CUV and find I actually like it. I believe my wife will like it as she is wanting a AWD small size CUV with a bit of luxury to drive back and forth to college. I have to say this will fit the bill nicely.

Way to go Buick!!!

[G. David Felt]

Any chance you can put the seat all the way back in the drivers side and then look at the rear seat for leg room?

At 6'6" tall, while I think my 5'8" tall wife will love this AWD CUV, I might have to occazionally drive it and wonder if anyone could fit in behind me still????

Thanks,

[Drew Dowdell]

We now have an article up for this 2013 Buick Encore Debut

[ocnblu]

I like the Mokka Latte colour, and the interior choices are nice. So glad to see GM injecting some life into their interiors. To paraphrase an earlier post of mine... I actually wouldn't mind being seen in this in daylight.

Ohhh... ALBERT... your car is calling!

So it's the size of a Sonic/Fiesta. That is tiny, but reading the specs, it has generous cargo room with the seat up, matching the Sonic and beating the Fiesta.

This really is a new class of vehicle in the US... bravo to GM for pioneering a segment, for once.

I'm ready to see this in dark blue with the base wheels and black leather, if that combo exists.

Edited January 11, 2012 by ocnblu

[FAPTurbo]

A very timely vehicle and I don't think it could have been done any better! I really like it! It makes the Mercedes B-Class look even dowdier and boring than it already is.

[Paolino]

It's nice, but not making me say "wow". The plood is great... and the interior colors are nice. A little confused as to why rainsense is available on this but not on any of the current sedans.

[Drew Dowdell]

I like the Mokka Latte colour, and the interior choices are nice. So glad to see GM injecting some life into their interiors. To paraphrase an earlier post of mine... I actually wouldn't mind being seen in this in daylight.

Ohhh... ALBERT... your car is calling!

So it's the size of a Sonic/Fiesta. That is tiny, but reading the specs, it has generous cargo room with the seat up, matching the Sonic and beating the Fiesta.

This really is a new class of vehicle in the US... bravo to GM for pioneering a segment, for once.

I'm ready to see this in dark blue with the base wheels and black leather, if that combo exists.

What surprised me about the Encore was that with the driver seat set for me, I could sit in the back and have lots of legroom. I didn't think to take a picture at the time, but if it is open in Chicago I'll get one (heck, even if it's not, I'll get someone to open it for me)

[hyperv6]

I like the Mokka Latte colour, and the interior choices are nice. So glad to see GM injecting some life into their interiors. To paraphrase an earlier post of mine... I actually wouldn't mind being seen in this in daylight.

Ohhh... ALBERT... your car is calling!

So it's the size of a Sonic/Fiesta. That is tiny, but reading the specs, it has generous cargo room with the seat up, matching the Sonic and beating the Fiesta.

This really is a new class of vehicle in the US... bravo to GM for pioneering a segment, for once.

I'm ready to see this in dark blue with the base wheels and black leather, if that combo exists.

What surprised me about the Encore was that with the driver seat set for me, I could sit in the back and have lots of legroom. I didn't think to take a picture at the time, but if it is open in Chicago I'll get one (heck, even if it's not, I'll get someone to open it for me)

Ah feel the power of the Media. LOL!

[riviera74]

I am very impressed by the interior most of all. For years, GM has cheaped out on interiors, even on LeSabre and Park Avenue. That finally started to change with the original Enclave, 2nd-gen Lacrosse and now all the new cars. The Encore continues this very positive trend of premium interiors. GM has finally learned that interiors matter.

Now can this interior be acquired in a Lacrosse these days (especially the two-toned seats and motif)?

[Drew Dowdell]

Just scheduled: 3/14/2013 - 3/21/2013 Encore AWD

[Drew Dowdell]

The seat backs are different on the driver and passenger seat.

 

As I've found out from owning it.  It's because the front passenger seat folds flat.  I've used it as a work desk when on trips.

[ocnblu]

Don't wreck it.  We've had one in the shop for 2 months with 500 miles on it, waiting for the right side rear outboard seat bolster, containing an airbag.  Came from Korea.  Box has Hyundai on it.  And... we got FOUR in the box when we only needed one.  Luckily we had a Verano in loaner service to give the customer.  I am hoping they get it finished this week while I'm on vacation and back to the customer.

[Drew Dowdell]

I just put snow tires on the CR-V which will be the primary Winter duty vehicle.  $300 from Tirerack - $40 installed at Costco.  Next year I'll get them for the Encore... they were just more than I wanted to spend right now.

[Drew Dowdell]

Dear comment spammers.  You'll find this board is incredibly spam free.  There is a reason for that.  Don't bother.

[G. David Felt]

Drew so winter tires are more expensive for the Encore than the CR-V?

[Drew Dowdell]

Drew so winter tires are more expensive for the Encore than the CR-V?

 

Yes... by more than double.  The CR-V has 15s and the Encore has 18s.  

[hyperv6]

I just put 19" Goodyears on the Terrain and found them around $175 apiece after discounts etc. When I first bought the Terrain they were around $235 with few options.

The more 18" tires are around the more options we will see available in all price ranges.

 

Also you will see that many 14" are already gone and we may see a greater decrease in offerings of size in 15".

[Drew Dowdell]

I've already noticed that for older 15" sizes and I know my friend with a B Body Roadmaster has trouble finding proper sizes

[hyperv6]

Guys with 80's cars like the Fiero that need 215-60-14 are damn near impossible to find and if you do find them they are often not a quality tire. The guys with base cars can not find 13's in the type they need.

I did notice some folks are reproducing the Eagle GT's for the 80's cars but only in F body sizes.

 

I remember when put 16" on the Fiero there were no 17" at the time. It was leading edge now I own nothing with less than 18" on 5 vehicles other than the same Fiero.

 

The thing is with more models of the larger tires they are getting to be more affordable than just the high end models being that size. I never thought I would find 19" under $200 when I bought it. Now I have a good tire for less.

 

I do believe we will see more cars move back down in size in the next ten years as cars loose weight they can use smaller brakes. Smaller tires, wheels and brakes cut weight too. We will still have some large tires but not as many.

 

Many will follow Cadillac's lead and restrict the tire size more for performance needs vs. styling needs. 20-22 look good but when companies are looking to cut weight and to improve performance that much un sprung weight often has to go.
 

[Drew Dowdell]

Guys with 80's cars like the Fiero that need 215-60-14 are damn near impossible to find and if you do find them they are often not a quality tire. The guys with base cars can not find 13's in the type they need.

 

 

15s for my Toronado are difficult to find... especially in white wall.  The problem is that it is the same tire size as the old S-10/Sonoma, so most of the tires that I do find in the proper size are actually truck tires and not at all suitable for a vintage luxury coupe... eventually I'm sure I'll have to go to Coker tire, but that is a long way off.  I have okay tires on it now with low miles, but I'm not exactly happy with them. 

[hyperv6]

White walls and white letter tires are going to be a thing of the past soon.

 

White rubber is a weak non structured rubber and tire companies was to do away with it as do automakers because it is a liability. tires that use white rubber get hotter in these areas and this is where they can fail at higher speeds that todays cars do.

 

This is why race tires for years had painted on letters or as today a decal.  Some performance tires are now going to decals but it is rare.

 

Most tires that use white rubber are limited to S speed ratings and few cars are limited to that today.

 

The repo market will address much of the more popular sizes but many others will be left out if they are uncommon. If you have a Camaro or Corvette no problem but if you want to restore a STE Pontiac for some reason you may have issues on odd sizes.

 

Many people think this is just a styling thing when it really is liability.

[Drew Dowdell]

Interesting, I didn't know that about white rubber. I always thought they only used it for the white wall part of the tire, not the whole thing.

[Z-06]

Interesting, I didn't know that about white rubber. I always thought they only used it for the white wall part of the tire, not the whole thing.

 

Carbon Black is added to the rubber or plastic compounds to prevent degradation from sunlight, especially UV rays.

[hyperv6]

What happens is the white rubber is not high strength and is just added to the side wall. Its biggest flaw is that it makes the side wall thicker in one spot and leads to more heat at higher speeds. Once it gets so hot the tire will fail at the hottest spot and that generally is where the band of white rubber is applies.

 

I can remember them sneaking me in to the tire factory where my grandfather worked and it is amazing what all goes into making tires. Even today it is very hands on process and not too far removed from what my grandfather did. . .

 

But the long and short of it is the White rubber band does nothing to hold the tire together and the extra band is where the heat grows the most.

 

You could build a tire out of nothing but white rubber but like pointed out the tire will degrade. But also the strength of the tire is increases substantially. Just a 50% increase can result in a 100% increase in tinsel strength. This means more strength but better tread life and better heat transfer.

Heat is what really kills a tire.

Also mixing in the Carbon Black was one of the worst jobs you could have. These guys would mix Rubber, Sulfur, Carbon Black and other chemicals in a Ban Bury Mixer. They would come out looking like they were in a coal mine. I often wondered how many dies of lung disease.

 

In the old days you did see white tires but they did not last long and there were a lot of rubber durability issues on top of the crude designs.

 

But note your white wall or letters ply is only a few inches wide on todays tires but that small bit is still not good and will prevent any real speed ratings. We are in a day where even most 4 cylinder cars will do 120 MPH anymore and are speed limited in many cases.  This is why many trucks with white lettered tires are limited to 112 MPH. I think that is what the S rating is today unless they changed it.

Edited December 29, 2014 by hyperv6

[Drew Dowdell]

yeah, but who ever really gets that fast in the US?

[hyperv6]

It is not how fast you go but how fast you could go and then file suit on a car company for not providing the proper speed rated tires for the abilities of the car.

This is why my HHR SS had V rated tires as it will top 150 MPH. Not that I would do that myself with a little tin box but I  know others that have.

 

Thank a lawyer for the lack of white letter and walls.

 

These are big picture issues. You have to take in all the issues involved and while it is still foolish it is how the system works.

Edited December 29, 2014 by hyperv6

[Drew Dowdell]

It is not how fast you go but how fast you could go and then file suit on a car company for not providing the proper speed rated tires for the abilities of the car.

This is why my HHR SS had V rated tires as it will top 150 MPH. Not that I would do that myself with a little tin box but I  know others that have.

 

Thank a lawyer for the lack of white letter and walls.

 

These are big picture issues. You have to take in all the issues involved and while it is still foolish it is how the system works.

 

 

Okay... where I was going with this (but got distracted and didn't type) was that the old B-Bodies were speed limited to 143mph for the Roady/Caprice/Fleetwood and 153 for the Impala SS.  The old Park Ave Ultra's top speed was 140mph without a speed limiter (I imagine the 3800 was near death at that point).

 

Though I can't imagine doing 143mph in a Dynaride '94 Roadmaster.... 

[hyperv6]

There are no absolutes here as there are a few models that squeak through but in the end Legal departments are squeezing out the white walls as well as engineers.

Tire engineers and auto engineers both think in practical terms not esthetics and would have done away with whitewalls years ago. I had a tire engineer who explained his to me tell me that point blank. To him it just hinders the tire from being a better tire.

 

In the end he is winning his case because companies are tired of getting sued. As a Ford engineer told me we do not fool proof our cars we have to idiot proof them.

 

Who knows someday they may make a Whitewall decal that is molded in like the NASCAR letters are today.

 

I would love to see a modern redline but the same deal.

[Drew Dowdell]

There are no absolutes here as there are a few models that squeak through but in the end Legal departments are squeezing out the white walls as well as engineers.

Tire engineers and auto engineers both think in practical terms not esthetics and would have done away with whitewalls years ago. I had a tire engineer who explained his to me tell me that point blank. To him it just hinders the tire from being a better tire.

 

In the end he is winning his case because companies are tired of getting sued. As a Ford engineer told me we do not fool proof our cars we have to idiot proof them.

 

Who knows someday they may make a Whitewall decal that is molded in like the NASCAR letters are today.

 

I would love to see a modern redline but the same deal.

 

The idiots are winning.

[Robert Hall]

White walls and white letter tires have been out of style for years, except for use on older cars...

[hyperv6]

You have that right driver!

 

This is why I preach Tort Reform as the lawyers are pretty much holding industry hostage in corporate blackmail.

 

Lawyers take these class action cases in knowing it is not a strong case yet they know companies will pay out to settle vs. fight to win as it is just too damned expensive. This was true in many of the cases in the initial 12 Ignition cases.

 

I did the research and wondered why s many died with an issue that generally is a inconvenience and not instant death. Well I found 7 of the 12 did not have belts on. 3 were drunk, One was on drugs, one had a medical emergency.  Several were speeding at very high rates of speed.  To be honest even if the air bags had worked most of them would have died anyways. The one boy hit a tree so hard drunk that they had to remove his legs as he went through the floor.

 

The one girl Amber was drunk and was doing 62 into a dead end street before going off the road and hitting a tree. Yet her birth mother who had just came back into her life a year before the crash is making a lot of noise. She wants a settlement even after her adoptive family settled. 

 

The one crash in Wisconsin the one girl killed was in the back seat and killed when she was tossed into the windshield. Had she had a belt in she would be alive.

 

Sorry for the vent but the media does not like to tell the whole story. I ponder now of the cases GM accepted how many are fully legit of are much like the first 12 where in most cases it was shared responsibility or in some cased the driver was even more at fault for the accident.

 

We will not see tort reform as many of the people in DC are lawyers taking lobby money not to change the laws. In the end we all pay for all this crap in higher prices and in not being able to buy what we want like in the case here white walls.

[ocnblu]

I think wheel diameters will stay up, but maybe section widths will go narrower.  A 2025 Impala might wear 155/35R20 tires on superlight rims.

Edited December 30, 2014 by ocnblu

[Drew Dowdell]

if they can make it ride to American's desires..

[hyperv6]

The tires will come down as there is a limit on weight  cuts you can make. Wheels can only go so light and tires size is the only way you will cut weight.

 

But cutting size cuts mass and has too many other advantaged to it.

As for width. I would not bank on too skinny of a tire as the only way you put more tire to the ground is to go wider. But they now have construction of tires that do cut much in rolling resistance and the grip is still good with the new silica based tread compounds the use.

 

Goodyear did a demonstration that was simple but effective. They took two soap box derby cars and ran them done the track. Both were equipped with car tires. On had a standard radial and the other had the Assurance Fuel Max as used on the Volt.

 

The Fuel Max had a local racer and she may have only weighed 110 pounds. The other car had Greg Biffle the NASCAR driver at 175 pounds. We race my son in the Derby so knowing what I know his added weight alone should have pushed him down the hill faster than the other lighter car.

 

Well the race was run several times and she would easily beat him by several car lengths. Doing that in a derby car is not easy as we often will win a race by a faction of an inch. I knew the guys who set up the cars and it was a even up deal with no tricks. Even they were shocked at the difference.

 

This technology will find its way into most new tires in the next 10 years. The low rolling resistance tires of old that were hard as rocks are no longer an issue. Modern Compounding today has put the grip back in.

[G. David Felt]

At the Seattle International Auto show the University of Washington had a booth showing their auto technology using Carbon Fiber. They had a gas powered auto that had 17" Carbon Fiber rims. They were amazing to see and very lite. I can see in the future that auto companies will eventually move to carbon fiber rims to reduce weight while keeping over all diameter size up on wheel rims.

[dez97]

thanks for the old news, I wonder how much Buick has changed since then. Their a great company  and I do very much love their cars. They used to be the luxury cars of the country, now they are moving behind but slowly staying in the way as well. 

[hyperv6]

These types of wheels have been around for a little while. Until the cost comes down it will be a while till we see them in OE use. Someone will have to perfect them making them molded and also show they are stronger in all applications and conditions.

 

Motor Wheel made wheels for Shelby and Pontiac in the mid 80's. These were a composite plastic fiber. Motor Wheel was owned by Goodyear and that is how Shelby got in. Pontiac was testing them on the Fiero. The wheels were seen in photos of the 1990 Fiero GT prototype as they had a similar look to the 1990-91 Olds Cutlass International Series look. I knew a Goodyear engineer who has a set on his 85 Fiero but at the time I did not know they were composite 16".  I would kill to buy these off the car today but it has been 15 years since I saw the car. I know a GM marketing manager with one wheel and he is the one who showed me they were plastic.

I never got why they never went forward with these as there was a lot of press in 84-85 and then nothing.  It may have been cost or liability.

 

I know in the real world a 22 inch wheel with a 45 series tire is asking a lot of it. Here in the mid west lesser steel wheels do not fare well as it is. I would really have to see the results of these new carbon wheels before I would be looking for them in OE applications.

 

I think one key will be improved suspension and lighter cars that will make these composite wheels a reality but as it is with the 4000 pound cars we have that is asking a lot of a wheel. Carbon Fiber is strong but at least with most aluminum and steel they will bend with damage but with carbon it will break and in most cases a catastrophic  failure.

[G. David Felt]

I wonder since BMW is using carbon fiber carriage with their electric cars if carbon fiber wheel rims would make sense here.

[hyperv6]

Not if you will see the wheels any time soon on OE.

The body and chassis is very isolated from the hard things in the road. Wheels on the other hand only have the tire for protection. In most cases today very little tire is protecting them.

 

The prime issue is with a composite wheel is they do not bend or distort. Even a case will  give a lot before it breaks catastrophically.

 

If you ever spent time at a race were carbon fiber is used you will note it does not ben it breaks and when it breaks it breaks in a lot of pieces. It is made save for use in race chassis as it is made to crumple and has crush zones. These factors are great on a chassis but not good on a wheel.

 

Wheels take a brutal amount of force and are asked to face forces many other parts will not take in the car.

 

A of now we are not seeing these wheels even in racing so I think there is still a lot of work to do. You may see a limited number of aftermarket wheels but OE is a ways off due to cost and durability.

 

The real question is how much weight would be saved by the time the wheel is OE safe too. The Composite wheels Motor Wheel made were lighter but not by much. Not enough to warrant the cost or the risk.

Edited December 31, 2014 by hyperv6

[G. David Felt]

Not if you will see the wheels any time soon on OE.

The body and chassis is very isolated from the hard things in the road. Wheels on the other hand only have the tire for protection. In most cases today very little tire is protecting them.

 

The prime issue is with a composite wheel is they do not bend or distort. Even a case will  give a lot before it breaks catastrophically.

 

If you ever spent time at a race were carbon fiber is used you will note it does not ben it breaks and when it breaks it breaks in a lot of pieces. It is made save for use in race chassis as it is made to crumple and has crush zones. These factors are great on a chassis but not good on a wheel.

 

Wheels take a brutal amount of force and are asked to face forces many other parts will not take in the car.

 

A of now we are not seeing these wheels even in racing so I think there is still a lot of work to do. You may see a limited number of aftermarket wheels but OE is a ways off due to cost and durability.

 

The real question is how much weight would be saved by the time the wheel is OE safe too. The Composite wheels Motor Wheel made were lighter but not by much. Not enough to warrant the cost or the risk.

Great input, thank you.

[hyperv6]

I agree with you that we may see them someday but I suspect it may be a little while longer.

I really think the key is to first get molded Carbon Fiber product worked out as this will lower the time to make them and make it cheaper. Labor time is a killer making carbon fiber parts. Then to make them stronger.

 

The Motor Wheel wheels were pure composite but I have pondered a light steal reinforcement that would give it a foundation but used with carbon fiber to make it lighter?

 

By the way Motor wheel is the same company that made the original rubber inserted wheels that GM used. These are yet today some of the heaviest wheels I ever saw. Someone bought them away from Goodyear and I am not sure who they belong to today.