LA 2011: Cadillac XTS: Comments

[hyperv6]

GM was able to get a Cobalt SS to out handle a 3-series and the XTS is FAR more technologically advanced than a Cobalt.

Does anyone really believe that, though? I've always assumed they faked those numbers...and it's still just a Cobalt..

Trust me it was real and the handling is amazing. My top heavy HHR SS has nearly the same suspension and it is so easy to drive fast and hard vs even some RWD cars I have drive.

I have said here many times if engineer Mark Steilow at GM could make the old Delta into a car that handled this good imagine what they can do with a platform if they were given it from the start.

The GM Perforance Division guys are now not just fixing old platforms into performance car they are now tuning the platforms from the start and will also make perfromance version later. The new Cruz while not a perfromance car is a very capable sedan in it class. It rides and handle as well or better than many more expensive cars. You will find from this point out GM suspensions will be well tuned in all levels and price ranges. Even the Sonic has garnered praise for it handling already.

This car with the bits and parts going in and with what the other new GM cars are showing I expect it to be a very well balanced and tuned car. The Magnaride is something that can make tuning a car amazing. It is a very useful tool we wil see in more GM vehicles as times goes on.

As they Say in the TV spot Ferrari is borrowing something from Cadillac and I might add for good reason as the system really works.

I feel it is safe to say whole the XTS may have a few short comings based on the present platform I epxect ride and handling to be neither of the complains we will hear about. Based on the many new GM suspensions being praised and the equipment being used here they should do a good job on this. If the Lacrosse as it is has been praised the new bits on this car will only make it better.

The base price of the XTS will be more than the base price on any other Cadillac sedan. That is what I meant by it will be their top end (or most expensive) car. My guess is the XTS V6 is $10,000 more than a CTS V6.

Have you see the pricing yet?

[hyperv6]

there is video I believe. the point isn't what the cobalt "is", Nicer dash materials don't change handling characteristics.

This is, of course, correct.

"Faking" such a thing isn't really possible.

Video can be edited... anyway, it's a moot point since the Cobalt is defunct...no one cares.

Do you really think John Heinricy would let them edit his lap.

[Robert Hall]

Do you really think John Heinricy would let them edit his lap.

Who knows what really happens w/ these things. I'm just skeptical....I just don't think much of small FWD cars. Anyway, it's irrelevant to the XTS. Will be interesting to see how the XTS turns out.

[smk4565]

there is video I believe. the point isn't what the cobalt "is", Nicer dash materials don't change handling characteristics.

This is, of course, correct.

"Faking" such a thing isn't really possible.

Video can be edited... anyway, it's a moot point since the Cobalt is defunct...no one cares.

Yeah, if the Cobalt were so great, it would still be here. I never drove an SS model, but the base Cobalt was miserable to drive.

[Robert Hall]

there is video I believe. the point isn't what the cobalt "is", Nicer dash materials don't change handling characteristics.

This is, of course, correct.

"Faking" such a thing isn't really possible.

Video can be edited... anyway, it's a moot point since the Cobalt is defunct...no one cares.

Yeah, if the Cobalt were so great, it would still be here. I never drove an SS model, but the base Cobalt was miserable to drive.

I've had a couple as rentals..noisy and hard plastics inside. Nothing special, but much better than the Cavaliers that I've driven in the past.

[smk4565]

As they Say in the TV spot Ferrari is borrowing something from Cadillac and I might add for good reason as the system really works.

The base price of the XTS will be more than the base price on any other Cadillac sedan. That is what I meant by it will be their top end (or most expensive) car. My guess is the XTS V6 is $10,000 more than a CTS V6.

Have you see the pricing yet?

The Ferrari borrowing from Cadillac reminds me of Suzuki Kizashi comparison ads, or Lexus IS350 ads saying they have more horsepower than a C-class. It just shows how they are followers when they have to try to convince people they are in an elite class. Think of a Mercedes S-class ad (or any Merc ad really) what car do they compare the S-class to??? No car, they already know the S-class is the best car in the world and has been for 30-40 years, the competition doesn't matter.

On the 2nd point, I have not seen pricing, that is why I said "my guess" is $10,000 more than a CTS, and I posted earlier $46,500 was what I thought the base price would be.

I've had a couple as rentals..noisy and hard plastics inside. Nothing special, but much better than the Cavaliers that I've driven in the past.

Agreed. My first car was a Cavalier and the Cobalt was better of course. But by 2011 standards, the Cobalt is pretty much was the Cavalier was in the 90s.

[Drew Dowdell]

The Lacrosse is already a more than competent handler. I've chased an Altima Coupe up a twisty road in a Lacrosse CXS that was built before Hi-Per strut.

Now add magnetic ride control, one of the best AWD systems out there (that can be tuned for RWD bias even in a FWD based car), and Hi-Per strut....

I am NOT saying that it will take on an M5 on the 'Ring, but it will likely more than match any E350 or 528i in feel.

and that is all it need do.

[smk4565]

The XTS isn't going to match a 528i, an ES350 sure, I think Jeremy Clarkson said every Lexus sedan is like driving a bucket of wall paper paste, and I imagine he is correct.

If the XTS is $39,000 then handling to beat a LaCrosse, Lincoln, ES350 is fine and will be all those buyers want. At $50k, you can get a 5-series or E-class or A6, Infiniti M, etc. Once you get against the big boys you better bring the A-game.

[Drew Dowdell]

The A6 is FWD based. I know, I've driven a FWD diesel A6 on the Autobahn. The FWD Lacrosse is at least equal to that now.

[smk4565]

The A6 is FWD based. I know, I've driven a FWD diesel A6 on the Autobahn. The FWD Lacrosse is at least equal to that now.

I have not driven an A6, but have driven the A4. I think an A4 Quattro has better handling than a CTS, it at least feels more nimble, but it is smaller and lighter. The CTS does have better ride though. I have not driven the LaCrosse, but I know it doesn't handle better than a CTS. I doubt a LaCrosse can keep up with an A6 Quattro, which is a pretty solid car. Personally though I don't care for the A6, and neither do many other people since the E-class and 5-series outsell it about 8 to 1. Maybe Audi needs to dump that platform and make a true RWD car.

[Drew Dowdell]

Lacrosse 3.6 V6 AWD v. Audi A6 3.0T Quattro would be matched up pretty close. Same weight, same wheel base, the Audi has a little more torque at a lot lower RPM and could probably outrun the Buick, slightly, on the straightaways.

[smk4565]

Lacrosse 3.6 V6 AWD v. Audi A6 3.0T Quattro would be matched up pretty close. Same weight, same wheel base, the Audi has a little more torque at a lot lower RPM and could probably outrun the Buick, slightly, on the straightaways.

The A6 3.0T Quattro does 0-60 in 5.4 seconds. That is over a full second quicker than a LaCrosse, that is much quicker than a CTS even. The Audi would run 4 rings around a Buick, a CTS AWD would probably struggle to keep up with an A6. Plus the A6 interior is better than any American car interior. Although I personally don't like Audis, they do a few things well.

[Z-06]

I am sick and tired of every thread becoming a GM bashing, RWD praising, any brand other than GM humping pointless tirades. There is no constructive discussion left on the website anymore.

At the start of the thread, there were some very valid points regarding the design changes and ideological inaccuracies of the car countered by valid reasons of sales numbers and easy money necessary to keep the brand alive.

If GM cannot do anything right, and other manufacturers do, then this is not the forum for you, move on and join those forums. There is one thing to point mistakes and talk constructively and then there is other to just constantly keeping on bitching, moaning, and whining about anything GM does.

[hyperv6]

THE PENALTY OF LEADERSHIP

In every field of human endeavour, he that is first must perpetually live in the white light of publicity. Whether the leadership be vested in a man or in a manufactured product, emulation and envy are ever at work. In art, in literature, in music, in industry, the reward and the punishment are always the same. The reward is widespread recognition; the punishment, fierce denial and detraction. When a man’s work becomes a standard for the whole world, it also becomes a target for the shafts of the envious few. If his work be mediocre, he will be left severely alone - if he achieves a masterpiece, it will set a million tongues a-wagging. Jealousy does not protrude its forked tongue at the artist who produces a commonplace painting. Whatsoever you write, or paint, or play, or sing, or build, no one will strive to surpass or to slander you unless your work be stamped with the seal of genius. Long, long after a great work or a good work has been done, those who are disappointed or envious, continue to cry out that it cannot be done. Spiteful little voices in the domain of art were raised against our own Whistler as a mountback, long after the big would had acclaimed him its greatest artistic genius. Multitudes flocked to Bayreuth to worship at the musical shrine of Wagner, while the little group of those whom he had dethroned and displaced argued angrily that he was no musician at all. The little world continued to protest that Fulton could never build a steamboat, while the big world flocked to the river banks to see his boat steam by. The leader is assailed because he is a leader, and the effort to equal him is merely added proof of that leadership. Failing to equal or to excel, the follower seeks to depreciate and to destroy - but only confirms once more the superiority of that which he strives to supplant. There is nothing new in this. It is as old as the world and as old as human passions - envy, fear, greed, ambition, and the desire to surpass. And it all avails nothing. If the leader truly leads, he remains - the leader. Master-poet, master-painter, master-workman, each in his turn is assailed, and each holds his laurels through the ages. That which is good or great makes itself known, no matter how loud the clamor of denial. That which deserves to live - lives.

Cadillac ad 1915 Saturday Evening Post.

Lets just lay the cards on let the car show what it can do and what the public thinks as it is their opionion not ours here that count. So lets just put this to the ultimate test and let the market decide who is right!.

[smk4565]

Cadillac isn't a leader, but the frustrating thing is they could be up in the conversation with BMW and Mercedes. Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, Lincoln, and even Audi have flaws that Cadillac could be and should be exploiting. If they added $10,000 to the base price of the CTS it would allow them to equip the car so that it can go against the A6, M, 5-series, E-class. Problem is I think that is where they will price the XTS, then you have the DTS-STS price overlap all over again, just with different models.

The ATS is what I am waiting for, it is a Cadillac I might actually want to buy. But my fear there is they cheap it out too much to keep the price under the where the CTS sits now. The 2012 3-series pricing basically matches the CTS, so does the ATS cost as much as a CTS or does it become a poor man's 3-series with compromises.

[Drew Dowdell]

I am sick and tired of every thread becoming a GM bashing, RWD praising, any brand other than GM humping pointless tirades. There is no constructive discussion left on the website anymore.

At the start of the thread, there were some very valid points regarding the design changes and ideological inaccuracies of the car countered by valid reasons of sales numbers and easy money necessary to keep the brand alive.

If GM cannot do anything right, and other manufacturers do, then this is not the forum for you, move on and join those forums. There is one thing to point mistakes and talk constructively and then there is other to just constantly keeping on bitching, moaning, and whining about anything GM does.

this.

[Drew Dowdell]

Lacrosse 3.6 V6 AWD v. Audi A6 3.0T Quattro would be matched up pretty close. Same weight, same wheel base, the Audi has a little more torque at a lot lower RPM and could probably outrun the Buick, slightly, on the straightaways.

The A6 3.0T Quattro does 0-60 in 5.4 seconds. That is over a full second quicker than a LaCrosse, that is much quicker than a CTS even. The Audi would run 4 rings around a Buick, a CTS AWD would probably struggle to keep up with an A6. Plus the A6 interior is better than any American car interior. Although I personally don't like Audis, they do a few things well.

keep it on f@#king topic. We are talking handling here. The Buick could have a cardboard interior and then Audi have one built from f@#king angel farts but it would have no f@#king bearing on how either car handles. We are addressing your STUPID assertion that the XTS is automatically inferior in handling to the Audi despite them BOTH being front wheel drive. If you hate GM so much, why are you here?

Magnetic ride control is what lets the heavier CTS run with the lighter M3 to the point where any differences are the result of driver error.

I'm driving a Hi-Per strut Regal GS this week and there is NO torque steer from a 295 ft-lb front driver.

You simply haven't got a clue because you HAVEN'T DRIVEN THESE CARS.

[smk4565]

Even just on handling alone, I'd take an Audi over a Buick. The A4 is pretty similar to the CTS as far as handling, but the A4 is firmer, probably has less body roll (but it is lighter too). I can't see any Buick handling like a CTS. I'd actually be interested in driving a Regal or LaCrosse to see how far GM fwd has come since cars like the Aurora, Seville STS, Grand Prix GTP, Malibu, 9-5 Aero because I have driven all those. But I am driving my last fwd car, and my next car will be rwd, so I haven't bothered to look at anything fwd.

I am not anti front wheel drive, for compacts and mainstream sedans it is great, for the demographic that buys an ES350 and doesn't want power and performance it suits their needs. But Cadillac should build "Standard of the World," take magnetic ride, hyperstruts, air springs, etc and put that on a rear drive chassis. I'd like to see them take the CTS-V suspension and put it on the base model ATS and go BMW hunting, but the bean counters won't allow that.

[Drew Dowdell]

But Cadillac should build "Standard of the World," take magnetic ride, hyperstruts, air springs, etc and put that on a rear drive chassis.

They ARE. It's just not this car. Cadillac can not offer more than one vehicle type at a time?! The RWD flagship wasn't even given the go ahead till Whitacre became CEO. It is also going to be on an entirely new platform. You don't get a new platform like you download apps on your phone. They take time to build and develop.

In the meantime, Cadillac dealers need more than CTS, SRX, Escalade to sell.

There is no need for hi-per strut on a RWD vehicle. There will be an ATS-V using Magaride, but probably not air springs. But why should Cadillac give away one of their signature technologies on a base ATS? They can already go BMW hunting in a Cobalt SS... no need for Magnaride.

[smk4565]

But in 2005 after the CTS, XLR, STS, and SRX were on sale, they did the DTS rehash for 2006 and an Escalade update also. Why in 2006 were they not planning for the next generation of rear drive Cadillacs? It is like they re-did the CTS and let the rest die on the vine. To me the most frustrating thing about Cadillac is they won't get the model line in order, like you said, they have CTS, SRX and Escalade right now. It seems like even with 4 brands GM can't keep the pipelines full. BMW has had that 3, 5, 7 set up since the 80s, after 30 years Cadillac is still trying to get to the small, medium, large sedan line going, and they keep fumbling the ball.

[William Maley]

But in 2005 after the CTS, XLR, STS, and SRX were on sale, they did the DTS rehash for 2006 and an Escalade update also. Why in 2006 were they not planning for the next generation of rear drive Cadillacs? It is like they re-did the CTS and let the rest die on the vine. To me the most frustrating thing about Cadillac is they won't get the model line in order, like you said, they have CTS, SRX and Escalade right now. It seems like even with 4 brands GM can't keep the pipelines full. BMW has had that 3, 5, 7 set up since the 80s, after 30 years Cadillac is still trying to get to the small, medium, large sedan line going, and they keep fumbling the ball.

They were. There is a lot of evidence, pictures, and documents of Cadillac working on a RWD Platform (Zeta) vehicle for a true flagship that most of us of us WANT. But then there this little thing called BANKRUPTCY which wiped the slate clean and cause many GM projects to be canned or revised. One of those projects canned was the RWD Cadillac flagship.

The bankruptcy put GM back a few years in their product cycle and caused them to take a closer look at what they're doing.

Is the XTS the true savior of Cadillac? No.

The XTS does give GM/Cadillac something they desperately need: TIME. Time to get the the rumored RWD Flagship ready by mid-decade. Time to figure out what other models Cadillac needs to build up.

The bankruptcy really screwed up GM's product plans. The RWD nirvana that a good amount of people want is coming, but not soon as we think.

[hyperv6]

But in 2005 after the CTS, XLR, STS, and SRX were on sale, they did the DTS rehash for 2006 and an Escalade update also. Why in 2006 were they not planning for the next generation of rear drive Cadillacs? It is like they re-did the CTS and let the rest die on the vine. To me the most frustrating thing about Cadillac is they won't get the model line in order, like you said, they have CTS, SRX and Escalade right now. It seems like even with 4 brands GM can't keep the pipelines full. BMW has had that 3, 5, 7 set up since the 80s, after 30 years Cadillac is still trying to get to the small, medium, large sedan line going, and they keep fumbling the ball.

Did you not notice GM was out of money.

A fumble here would be not to have a new product in the show room for 4 more years. The DTS could not go on any longer and there was just not enough time to get a new platform for the XTS yet. Do you leave the slot empty like they did with the Camaro or do you take a program that was aready well underway and improve it with new and better technology and use it in the market to fill the showroom till the car you want can be properly designed and built?

[Justin Bimmer]

Smk, you need to go drive the regal. It handles like an Audi. I have driven both.

[Drew Dowdell]

Nice to have some allies here again... but geeze, when you manage to even piss mudmonster off...

[hyperv6]

Nice to have some allies here again... but geeze, when you manage to even piss mudmonster off...

I think most of us had your back on this one. It was clear who is informed and who is not.

[ocnblu]

Over on the Facebook thingy, people who appear to be young in their picture are liking the XTS. Of course, whether they have any money is another question. The starting price seems a bargain, which it had to be, imo.

This car might be decent, but for me it tells me GM wants Cadillac to be a volume brand, not a true luxury brand. Of course, back in the late 70's before the tragic wave of downsizing (starting in 1985) gutted Cadillac of everything it ever stood for, Cadillac was the top selling luxury brand in the USA. So maybe, just maybe, in some weird way, this volume sedan will help Cadillac return to sales glory. Shame it has to be at the expense of what some of us hope Cadillac can return to... a true, luxury, aspirational brand.

[hyperv6]

Nice to have some allies here again... but geeze, when you manage to even piss mudmonster off...

I think most of us had your back on this one. It was clear who is informed and who is not.

Hmmm a negative 2 I think I can guess who that might be. LOL!

[hyperv6]

Over on the Facebook thingy, people who appear to be young in their picture are liking the XTS. Of course, whether they have any money is another question. The starting price seems a bargain, which it had to be, imo.

This car might be decent, but for me it tells me GM wants Cadillac to be a volume brand, not a true luxury brand. Of course, back in the late 70's before the tragic wave of downsizing (starting in 1985) gutted Cadillac of everything it ever stood for, Cadillac was the top selling luxury brand in the USA. So maybe, just maybe, in some weird way, this volume sedan will help Cadillac return to sales glory. Shame it has to be at the expense of what some of us hope Cadillac can return to... a true, luxury, aspirational brand.

I have been showing people at work of various automotive likes and so far most like what they see and what is being offered on the XTS. I know this is not a scientific poll but I can say I have yet to have anyone say they did not think the car had no appeal. In fact most thought it was well styled and like the idea of the many tech features it will offer.

I would not be so fast to say that Cadillac will not return to true Luxury yet. Cadillac has yet to make a car that is best in class yet, close but still not best. Untill they can make the CTS, ATS and XTS the best in their present classes they have little hope to dominate any higher classes. They still have work to do and I expect with the ATS they will start to work to dominate the present classes and then start the move up.

Once the ATS and CTS are see as better than the others a higher more expensive car would be a hard sell. GM would see the same issues Benz has seen with the Maybach. Once in these higher classes you have to earn respect and image you can't just engineer it.

[Drew Dowdell]

Over on the Facebook thingy, people who appear to be young in their picture are liking the XTS. Of course, whether they have any money is another question. The starting price seems a bargain, which it had to be, imo.

This car might be decent, but for me it tells me GM wants Cadillac to be a volume brand, not a true luxury brand. Of course, back in the late 70's before the tragic wave of downsizing (starting in 1985) gutted Cadillac of everything it ever stood for, Cadillac was the top selling luxury brand in the USA. So maybe, just maybe, in some weird way, this volume sedan will help Cadillac return to sales glory. Shame it has to be at the expense of what some of us hope Cadillac can return to... a true, luxury, aspirational brand.

It's not at the expense of anything. There is still a RWD flagship coming. There is still a RWD 3-series fighter coming.

[ocnblu]

Well it's actually not a RWD/FWD thing for me. RWD is the preferred layout for Benz and BMW (the two brands Cadillac should be surpassing, I am not naive enough to think Rolls-Royce or Bentley are within any kind of striking distance), but as it was pointed out, the Eldorado of 1967 was the pinnacle at the time for Cadillac.

My problem with the car is its Epsilon chassis. I don't think I'd have a problem with it if it were on a FWD platform shared only with a Buick flagship car above the LaCrosse. That platform could then, in turn, be the basis for an SRX and stretched for an Escalade (exclusively AWD, no FWD on the crossovers).

I still believe the true, topline Cadillac sedan and convertible should be on a RWD platform with a lengthy wheelbase... the Ciel is dead sexy, and would be sexier with a torque-heavy diesel engine to rival Benz and BMW instead of the electric do-dad it has in concept form.

[CanadianBacon94]

Well it's actually not a RWD/FWD thing for me. RWD is the preferred layout for Benz and BMW (the two brands Cadillac should be surpassing, I am not naive enough to think Rolls-Royce or Bentley are within any kind of striking distance), but as it was pointed out, the Eldorado of 1967 was the pinnacle at the time for Cadillac.

My problem with the car is its Epsilon chassis. I don't think I'd have a problem with it if it were on a FWD platform shared only with a Buick flagship car above the LaCrosse. That platform could then, in turn, be the basis for an SRX and stretched for an Escalade (exclusively AWD, no FWD on the crossovers).

I still believe the true, topline Cadillac sedan and convertible should be on a RWD platform with a lengthy wheelbase... the Ciel is dead sexy, and would be sexier with a torque-heavy diesel engine to rival Benz and BMW instead of the electric do-dad it has in concept form.

While the option of a diesel should be there i think it should have a Ls engine in it standard, most think of this when they think of diesels

Then again, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to try and change that...

Edited November 25, 2011 by CanadianBacon94

[ocnblu]

That's a badass old Ram, Mr. Bacon!

[67impss]

Yeah old Cummins diesels love the fuel turned up

[hyperv6]

Finally saw the XTS today. Lets make this clear no one will confuse it with the Lacrosse. It was a nice looking car and it had a great number of people checking it out. I can see this car doing it's job for Cadillac. While it is not the home run car it offers a little old and a little new to bridge owners of the old cars to the futrure ones.

While I would still go for the ATS I saw and the XTS is not my kind of car it was much better in person than in photos.

[ClassyEldo]

Today the online 2013 XTS Ordering/Reference Guide from GM went online and here is the link:

http://eogld.ecomm.g...ID=12962&type=0

This probably means pricing has been set and production is starting? I wonder when the XTS will be arriving at dealerships?

Edited April 2, 2012 by ClassyEldo

[hyperv6]

Not too sure on production yet. This site is great for placing orders and I would expect production to be ready May, June or July depending on where GM is at on the set up of the production line. I may be wrong but these are the months I would expect production.

They need the dealers to order first.

[G. David Felt]

The XTS is a MUST have Car for Cadillac as there are a ton of Baby Boomers who loved the DTS but wanted a modern turn of the full size sedan for their retirement. Till GM can finish mapping out their road for a complete RWD sedan family, the XTS will suffice as a stop gap measure and you would be surprised by both old and young who seem to really like the pictures of this car.

I think GM did the right thing in prepping to have a stop gap measure while they work on nailing down the ATS and Continueing to build up the CTS lines.

[hyperv6]

I don't think of the XTS as a stop gap. I see it more like what the Captiva is. This is the car Cadillac can sell in higher volumes and still not kill the value of the other cars in the line. They can move these as livery and fleet sales and still retain the value of the other cars in their line up.

The sales in this area of fleet sales really do show a profit vs the rental fleets where they are more or less dumping grounds for unsold cars.

Cadillac was even shown testing a factory built limo in camo. I think many will be suprised how much Cadillac will push this car more than just at the open market. What ever cars they sell to the old and other fans of this car will only be added profits. Now the town car is gone no one has really made a big play for the open sales there. Some say the 300 but Chrysler has never pushed it for fleet or livery markets.

I suspect it will not be long till we see one driving away the fired celeberties on Donald Trumps Show. They are using an old STS now.

As for the DTS. I have one in the garage now and I would not trade my new GMC for it. I hate that car and almost everything about it. It was an early one and the looks did imporve on the later cars but I was never a fan of it. It i just not my kind of car.

Edited April 3, 2012 by hyperv6

[G. David Felt]

Yea think Livery would be happy with FWD or would they go AWD? I can see fleet sales for this also, but I still think it will be allowed to run it's course and die rather than a long ongoing run unless they change it over on the next major frame design to AWD/RWD.

[Drew Dowdell]

Livery was happy with 1WD with all of those non-LSD RWD Town Cars running around. Livery doesn't care what wheels drive the car as long as the car is durable. That said, I don't think the XTS will hold up like the Town Car did but it also isn't a truck frame with a Rubber-Lux interior either.

[hyperv6]

Yea think Livery would be happy with FWD or would they go AWD? I can see fleet sales for this also, but I still think it will be allowed to run it's course and die rather than a long ongoing run unless they change it over on the next major frame design to AWD/RWD.

The extra cost, the extra weight and the lesser MPG would eliminate 95% of the livery sales.

AWD is one of the most over rated items and gimicks on cars today. There are some people who live where it is needed but in most metro areas if you can not get around in RWD or FWD and all the traction aids you should not be on the road. Here in the snow belt we have less AWD cars than in LA where they freak out when it rains.

I am all for the companies selling AWD as they make a lot of money on them but the reality is unless you live out in the country or have a really long drive way in a snow belt region there is no need for AWD. These cars are not made for off road like a truck.

Now on a Supercar with mega power that is hard to nail down to the ground that is another story. But even then I would want it to be an option and not required.

[Drew Dowdell]

...or you have my driveway that doubles as a ski jump when it snows....

[G. David Felt]

Yea think Livery would be happy with FWD or would they go AWD? I can see fleet sales for this also, but I still think it will be allowed to run it's course and die rather than a long ongoing run unless they change it over on the next major frame design to AWD/RWD.

The extra cost, the extra weight and the lesser MPG would eliminate 95% of the livery sales.

AWD is one of the most over rated items and gimicks on cars today. There are some people who live where it is needed but in most metro areas if you can not get around in RWD or FWD and all the traction aids you should not be on the road. Here in the snow belt we have less AWD cars than in LA where they freak out when it rains.

I am all for the companies selling AWD as they make a lot of money on them but the reality is unless you live out in the country or have a really long drive way in a snow belt region there is no need for AWD. These cars are not made for off road like a truck.

Now on a Supercar with mega power that is hard to nail down to the ground that is another story. But even then I would want it to be an option and not required.

I have to disagree with you, the more I have driven AWD vehicles, the more I am sold on them for better traction in all weather. Yes in the south, they do not need it, but here in the PNW. This saves butts more often than not on a hill with a slick coating of snow/rain.

[Drew Dowdell]

There is a pearl white XTS on the show floor, it looks really good. I'll get pics later.

[hyperv6]

Yea think Livery would be happy with FWD or would they go AWD? I can see fleet sales for this also, but I still think it will be allowed to run it's course and die rather than a long ongoing run unless they change it over on the next major frame design to AWD/RWD.

The extra cost, the extra weight and the lesser MPG would eliminate 95% of the livery sales.

AWD is one of the most over rated items and gimicks on cars today. There are some people who live where it is needed but in most metro areas if you can not get around in RWD or FWD and all the traction aids you should not be on the road. Here in the snow belt we have less AWD cars than in LA where they freak out when it rains.

I am all for the companies selling AWD as they make a lot of money on them but the reality is unless you live out in the country or have a really long drive way in a snow belt region there is no need for AWD. These cars are not made for off road like a truck.

Now on a Supercar with mega power that is hard to nail down to the ground that is another story. But even then I would want it to be an option and not required.

I have to disagree with you, the more I have driven AWD vehicles, the more I am sold on them for better traction in all weather. Yes in the south, they do not need it, but here in the PNW. This saves butts more often than not on a hill with a slick coating of snow/rain.

While I agree it is better traction the fast still remains in normal winter conditions on most public roads I get a rwd or FWD to go anywhere it needs to go. How many years did we get along without it with no issues?

I push snow with the front bumper on my HHR and I still get through. AWD is still not a sub for poor winter driving skills. Hell around here the only people who have issues getting around generally have nearly bald tires and who's fault is that? LOL!

The bottom line is AWD is better but not required on most public roads in the winter.

[Robert Hall]

After 12 winters in Colorado, 3 in Michigan, and 6 in Ohio, I prefer a 4WD SUV for winter use, w/ proper mud & snow tires, not weak all season tires. In Phoenix, though, I can get away w/ RWD for winter..

[Drew Dowdell]

[ClassyEldo]

Thanks for the pics, Oldsmoboi! (However, the car shown is beige metallic, not White Diamond color.) Although I like the XTS, after seeing the 2014 Impala shown at NYIAS, it seems there could have been a little more "embellishment" of the XTS. For example, I like the block lettering on the front door and the C-pillar emblem (carried over) on the Impala. Additional detailing like that would have gone far with the XTS's audience, for little added expense to GM. Real world photos show the XTS best!

[riviera74]

Why does the 2013 XTS and the 2014 Impala look a lot alike from the side? Should they not look somewhat more different?

[Justin Bimmer]

It is all about drag coefficient. This style roofline does best.