Cadillac XTS Struts Its Stuff At LA

[Satty]

Also might want to skip pics of the front end with its massive front overhang.

[balthazar]

^ Ferrari-esque.

[smk4565]

Well worthy of a pic; an athletic, crisply-tailored sedan:

don't show a pic of the interior

That's when the Bonneville had 20 vents and acres of nasty gray plastic inside?

Yes it did, and I think they tried to put some carbon fiber looking stuff on top of the plastic to make it look sporty. Bad interior for the price, but the seats were from the Aurora.

[regfootball]

Well worthy of a pic; an athletic, crisply-tailored sedan:

don't show a pic of the interior

crap you're gonna make me hunt that ONE picture down now............with all the vents.....

[ocnblu]

The GXP in the photo is not the production version, it's the concept. Even the production version was the best looking FWD Bonneville ever made. The Bonneville GXP was an example of GM giving Pontiac the good stuff too late, a reversal from decades past, when the brand was given what it needed to succeed.

[hyperv6]

The GXP was the best Bonneville FWD they did but sales still point it was the wrong car at the wrong time.

At that time just sticking a V8 into a FWD Pontiac for $40K was not a good idea but it is all Pontiac had to work with. They needed this to have been a G8 or other RWD car to have done very well. Cadillac and Buick could get away with this one but not Pontiac. Large FWD cars are difficult to sell as a performance car and near impossible once you get to that price point in the 90's. Once you got to the price of a GXP there were just a lot of better cars out there at the same or just a little more.

This is why I really do not see a XTS V coming and Cadillac will leave the performance to the CTS and ATS. It may have a touring package or the like but no V.

I find with many this car was a love it or hate it car styling wise. Pontiac styling had gone to the pile of melted gray plastic look and they loved to over due the buttons, emblems and vents. My GTP Comp G is an good example of that even in its name. More is not better it the more is not better to start.

To be fair the Bonnie was made a lot better with time and it really was not a bad car. Lutz had to work with what he had and little budget. He did get them to clean this car up and improved the look it was given. But also with the G8 coming with the help of Lutz they were not going to do anything more than they had to.

The one my buddy had was a nice car but electrical issues, oil leaks one Tranny and two starters in one year was not something he was happy with. Sad but the starter was easier to replace than to fix the oil leaks. He sent it on its way before it cost him any more money. Sad it was not even a high mileage car with any abuse. It must have been built on a Friday.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'd like to see Cadillac do an XTS-V, even if just as a concept, and then go beat something like a 335ix around the 'Ring just to say Cadillac can beat BMW even in a 4,000lb, FWD, Land-land barge.

[hyperv6]

I'd like to see Cadillac do an XTS-V, even if just as a concept, and then go beat something like a 335ix around the 'Ring just to say Cadillac can beat BMW even in a 4,000lb, FWD, Land-land barge.

I feel they could easily do it if they want too. Having known what GM can do with a old Cobalt and turning it into a SS I would say they could easily do this here. I like you really would not want to see it in production but to see it run the track in street trim and plaster some of the most hollowed cars would be fun to watch. I really would love to see it just to show what GM can really do.

How about a Buick Lacrosse with a TTV6 in GS trim from GM Performance. That would even be more intersting.

[ocnblu]

TT 3.6L LaCrosse and XTS would get my attention quick. It would be their saving grace.

[smk4565]

TT 3.6L LaCrosse and XTS would get my attention quick. It would be their saving grace.

Was the MKS Ecoboost the saving grace of Lincoln? That pretty much went unnoticed in 2009, Buick/Cadillac doing the same sort of car in 2012 I don't think is going to set the world on fire.

[ocnblu]

Somehow, Ford hasn't marketed the Ecoboost engine correctly in their Lincolns. Not nearly as well as in the F-150. People don't know about it. The subtle differences in trim are not enough to set the Ecoboost MKS apart. I would hope GM could do a better job of sharpening the visual differences and the performance attributes in a TT 3.6L Buick or Cadillac over the more sedate trims, and then making sure potential customers are aware of the benefits.

Edited October 31, 2011 by ocnblu

[hyperv6]

I would not hold my breath for it anytime soon but it would be interesting to see GM show what they can do with one.

No one would pay the price for a Lacrosse with all the goods. It would leap into the CTS and BMW price range real quick.

[hyperv6]

Somehow, Ford hasn't marketed the Ecoboost engine correctly in their Lincolns. Not nearly as well as in the F-150. People don't know about it. The subtle differences in trim are not enough to set the Ecoboost MKS apart. I would hope GM could do a better job of sharpening the visual differences and the performance attributes in a TT 3.6L Buick or Cadillac over the more sedate trims.

I don't the engine marketing is the issue. Just when you get to that price range there are much better cars than a Tarted up Taurus Lincoln.

Ford is now looking to invest in Lincoln now with new styling and the same driveline. If they can improve the cars they should do better but they need more than just FWD/AWD only.

Lincoln is damages as they have used way to much of the Ford line. Their badge engineering has not been all that good. Some of their cars even rehashed still looks like the original Ford. Ford is bringing a lot of restyling soon and it will be interesting to see how it works on all their cars.

[Drew Dowdell]

TT 3.6L LaCrosse and XTS would get my attention quick. It would be their saving grace.

Was the MKS Ecoboost the saving grace of Lincoln? That pretty much went unnoticed in 2009, Buick/Cadillac doing the same sort of car in 2012 I don't think is going to set the world on fire.

The problems was that the MKS Ecoboost has a complete letdown of an interior and doesn't have much going for it on exterior looks either. The XTS concept is unlikely to be that far off from the the production model in overall looks and is eons beyond the MKS in both having a strong family heritage look yet also being very modern in appearance.

[regfootball]

The GXP was the best Bonneville FWD they did but sales still point it was the wrong car at the wrong time.

At that time just sticking a V8 into a FWD Pontiac for $40K was not a good idea but it is all Pontiac had to work with. They needed this to have been a G8 or other RWD car to have done very well. Cadillac and Buick could get away with this one but not Pontiac. Large FWD cars are difficult to sell as a performance car and near impossible once you get to that price point in the 90's. Once you got to the price of a GXP there were just a lot of better cars out there at the same or just a little more.

This is why I really do not see a XTS V coming and Cadillac will leave the performance to the CTS and ATS. It may have a touring package or the like but no V.

I find with many this car was a love it or hate it car styling wise. Pontiac styling had gone to the pile of melted gray plastic look and they loved to over due the buttons, emblems and vents. My GTP Comp G is an good example of that even in its name. More is not better it the more is not better to start.

To be fair the Bonnie was made a lot better with time and it really was not a bad car. Lutz had to work with what he had and little budget. He did get them to clean this car up and improved the look it was given. But also with the G8 coming with the help of Lutz they were not going to do anything more than they had to.

The one my buddy had was a nice car but electrical issues, oil leaks one Tranny and two starters in one year was not something he was happy with. Sad but the starter was easier to replace than to fix the oil leaks. He sent it on its way before it cost him any more money. Sad it was not even a high mileage car with any abuse. It must have been built on a Friday.

I'd far rather have a loaded Regal turbo 4 for the same price.

[regfootball]

Ford rollwed out the Ecoboost in cars with MSRP's that allowed to bear the cost of it.

Then, they rolled it out across multiple models, so they only needed a small volume in each model to begin to amortize that program.

But yeah, Lincoln didn't really trumpet the whole thing very much.

I really am of the opinion that Lincoln should go away, unless they really get focused and get their sht together.

[hyperv6]

The GXP was the best Bonneville FWD they did but sales still point it was the wrong car at the wrong time.

At that time just sticking a V8 into a FWD Pontiac for $40K was not a good idea but it is all Pontiac had to work with. They needed this to have been a G8 or other RWD car to have done very well. Cadillac and Buick could get away with this one but not Pontiac. Large FWD cars are difficult to sell as a performance car and near impossible once you get to that price point in the 90's. Once you got to the price of a GXP there were just a lot of better cars out there at the same or just a little more.

This is why I really do not see a XTS V coming and Cadillac will leave the performance to the CTS and ATS. It may have a touring package or the like but no V.

I find with many this car was a love it or hate it car styling wise. Pontiac styling had gone to the pile of melted gray plastic look and they loved to over due the buttons, emblems and vents. My GTP Comp G is an good example of that even in its name. More is not better it the more is not better to start.

To be fair the Bonnie was made a lot better with time and it really was not a bad car. Lutz had to work with what he had and little budget. He did get them to clean this car up and improved the look it was given. But also with the G8 coming with the help of Lutz they were not going to do anything more than they had to.

The one my buddy had was a nice car but electrical issues, oil leaks one Tranny and two starters in one year was not something he was happy with. Sad but the starter was easier to replace than to fix the oil leaks. He sent it on its way before it cost him any more money. Sad it was not even a high mileage car with any abuse. It must have been built on a Friday.

I'd far rather have a loaded Regal turbo 4 for the same price.

Ok?

[smk4565]

I don't the engine marketing is the issue. Just when you get to that price range there are much better cars than a Tarted up Taurus Lincoln.

Correct. That is why a tarted up Buick pushing into a high price point I don't see being a success. Especially once the Epsilon2 Impala comes out, then the Buick is a dressed up Impala, the Cadillac a dressed up Buick. And people that want a good engine and performance, probably aren't looking at Lincoln in the first place. (or Buick for that matter). Cadillac still has some prestige with the blue hairs, so that gives them an advantage the Lincolns don't quite have.

[ocnblu]

Working at what is now a former L-M dealership, I can tell you right now, the blue hairs LOVE their Town Cars. The MKZ has become their reluctant, easier-to-handle small car choice once the Town Car has been patched up too many times from accidents. But they love to bang up their MKZs too... we just got a 2011 in today, a couple from New England had a bit of a misadventure.

[hyperv6]

I don't the engine marketing is the issue. Just when you get to that price range there are much better cars than a Tarted up Taurus Lincoln.

Correct. That is why a tarted up Buick pushing into a high price point I don't see being a success. Especially once the Epsilon2 Impala comes out, then the Buick is a dressed up Impala, the Cadillac a dressed up Buick. And people that want a good engine and performance, probably aren't looking at Lincoln in the first place. (or Buick for that matter). Cadillac still has some prestige with the blue hairs, so that gives them an advantage the Lincolns don't quite have.

Not correct as GM has learned how to make cars on the same platform different enough that many people do not undersand it is even the same car. The Buick and Impala will be taylored for different buyers like the Verano has been vs the Cruze. Now that we don't have to make 5 different verisons of the same car it should be easier to make them different.

At Ford they really did not try hard enough to make the cars different. Even the body shapes are very similar between divisions. I expext the XTS, Lacrosse and Impala will have very little in common as they will change many dimentions and even power plants that will be available. I expect options with each price class to be much different too. If you want all the cool toys you have to buy the more expensive car.

Second you have yet to see where Buick is really going. The Larcrosse, Regal and Verano are all cars concieved under the pre chapter 11 GM. I expect you will see some major changes in their qulity and line up. They may just yet come with the equipment to compete head on with the lower end Audi. They already have made a better Lexus.

The Blue hairs still like the Town Cars but like white walls they are gone.

[regfootball]

The GXP was the best Bonneville FWD they did but sales still point it was the wrong car at the wrong time.

At that time just sticking a V8 into a FWD Pontiac for $40K was not a good idea but it is all Pontiac had to work with. They needed this to have been a G8 or other RWD car to have done very well. Cadillac and Buick could get away with this one but not Pontiac. Large FWD cars are difficult to sell as a performance car and near impossible once you get to that price point in the 90's. Once you got to the price of a GXP there were just a lot of better cars out there at the same or just a little more.

This is why I really do not see a XTS V coming and Cadillac will leave the performance to the CTS and ATS. It may have a touring package or the like but no V.

I find with many this car was a love it or hate it car styling wise. Pontiac styling had gone to the pile of melted gray plastic look and they loved to over due the buttons, emblems and vents. My GTP Comp G is an good example of that even in its name. More is not better it the more is not better to start.

To be fair the Bonnie was made a lot better with time and it really was not a bad car. Lutz had to work with what he had and little budget. He did get them to clean this car up and improved the look it was given. But also with the G8 coming with the help of Lutz they were not going to do anything more than they had to.

The one my buddy had was a nice car but electrical issues, oil leaks one Tranny and two starters in one year was not something he was happy with. Sad but the starter was easier to replace than to fix the oil leaks. He sent it on its way before it cost him any more money. Sad it was not even a high mileage car with any abuse. It must have been built on a Friday.

I'd far rather have a loaded Regal turbo 4 for the same price.

Ok?

basically repeating how fours and sixes have made 8's obsolete....something like the GXP Bonne would have no point to it these days....

[smk4565]

Not correct as GM has learned how to make cars on the same platform different enough that many people do not undersand it is even the same car.

Multiple cars on the same platforms for 4 brands was one of the reasons GM went bankrupt. They still do it with trucks and SUVs. All they learned was to price the platform shared car higher so it doesn't directly compete.

GM does however do a better job than Ford of making 2 cars on the same platform appear different.

[hyperv6]

The GXP was the best Bonneville FWD they did but sales still point it was the wrong car at the wrong time.

At that time just sticking a V8 into a FWD Pontiac for $40K was not a good idea but it is all Pontiac had to work with. They needed this to have been a G8 or other RWD car to have done very well. Cadillac and Buick could get away with this one but not Pontiac. Large FWD cars are difficult to sell as a performance car and near impossible once you get to that price point in the 90's. Once you got to the price of a GXP there were just a lot of better cars out there at the same or just a little more.

This is why I really do not see a XTS V coming and Cadillac will leave the performance to the CTS and ATS. It may have a touring package or the like but no V.

I find with many this car was a love it or hate it car styling wise. Pontiac styling had gone to the pile of melted gray plastic look and they loved to over due the buttons, emblems and vents. My GTP Comp G is an good example of that even in its name. More is not better it the more is not better to start.

To be fair the Bonnie was made a lot better with time and it really was not a bad car. Lutz had to work with what he had and little budget. He did get them to clean this car up and improved the look it was given. But also with the G8 coming with the help of Lutz they were not going to do anything more than they had to.

The one my buddy had was a nice car but electrical issues, oil leaks one Tranny and two starters in one year was not something he was happy with. Sad but the starter was easier to replace than to fix the oil leaks. He sent it on its way before it cost him any more money. Sad it was not even a high mileage car with any abuse. It must have been built on a Friday.

I'd far rather have a loaded Regal turbo 4 for the same price.

Ok?

basically repeating how fours and sixes have made 8's obsolete....something like the GXP Bonne would have no point to it these days....

Ok I just was not sure how the Regal came in but I see now.

[hyperv6]

Not correct as GM has learned how to make cars on the same platform different enough that many people do not undersand it is even the same car.

Multiple cars on the same platforms for 4 brands was one of the reasons GM went bankrupt. They still do it with trucks and SUVs. All they learned was to price the platform shared car higher so it doesn't directly compete.

GM does however do a better job than Ford of making 2 cars on the same platform appear different.

We all know why GM went bankrupt and 4 cars with the same identical equipment and engines with only base options levels and red lit dashed being the only difference.

Today GM has learned to change the wheel based, wheel widths body lenths, level of sound proofing, Engine available in one model not available in others. The Verano vs Cruze is only a squint at the changes we will see. These cars had to be similar in thier origins as they were still too close the the BK. In the future while the platforms will share parts the cars will move more and more in different directions along with the price. Anyone here thinking the XTS to be just a more expenisve Lacrosse with be suprised at the difference between them. Again the difference will be greater in future cars.

As for the Truck GM is still selling the same truck they did before the Chapter 11. As the new models come we will see more and more changes to seperate the domestic twins. I think the firs shot will be the Granite that will not be shared with Chevy.

At this point GM is working on a good many things we have not been told of or even hinted at. We will see some rea bigl surprises 2015 and on. Judge not what on you know today as you have few of the facts.

[smk4565]

GM has been "wait til next year" for the past 10 years. When will "next year" finally arrive? The platform share works when the Chevy is $23,000 and the Buick Version is $28,000. With little price overlap it is a good strategy, and when not jumping multiple price points. For example, Malibu-Regal works, because they overlap slightly in price, but the Regal is one step above. If there was a Cadillac Malibu at $45-50,000 it would be a joke, because it is too many price levels above the Malibu.

On luxury cars you need more than styling and interior trim to separate yourself from the mainstream stuff, that is where Lincoln and Acura to a degree fall flat. I see the XTS in the same way, they can put a fancy grille on and some leather on the inside, but it is still a Buick LaCrosse underneath.

[hyperv6]

Well if you take note at what they are doing now you would have a good idea they are finally on the right track with most 2014/2015 cars and later.

In the past there was only so much money to do a car platform and less per model. That is why we had Z28's that went like hell and turned like a demon but interiors that sucked and power windows broke. The F body manager said it was simple when you have only so much money you spend it on the go fast stuff in a performance car and then cut back on the rest. You then fix it over the next few years and get it right in the last couple years of it's life.

Today GM has the money to do a car right from concept to of the production line. They no longer need to half ass things as they have the funding and they also can invest into 2 cars what they used to invest into 4 cars.

The XTS is not a good example of where GM is going. This car was started and shelved during the Chapter 11 and at this point is is just to fill a need at Cadillac to buy time while they get the new post Chapter 11 cars in place. That still does not mean it will not be a good car.

Now that is not to say that this can no and will not be a poorly done car. THere are many things GM can do to this platform to set it apart from the Lacrosse. I also see the same being done to the Impala. This car will be better riding, more quiet and offer technology that is no and will not be available on the Buick.

Time to be smart and let them show you what the details of this car is before you critic it too much. To dis this car is like to say Kobe steak is shoe leather with out ever tasting it.

Note the XTS is not the home run car and GM does note expect it to be. This is the car that gets a good solid single or double and makes money while keeping customers would would go else where for a more Luxury car that really care little for high performance. This car will be replace sooner than you think and the next car will be the one the pressure to produce will be on.

The long and short of it is the XTS may not set the new agenda for Cadillac but it will do it no harm.

At least till you have seen, touched and driven the car in person hold the Lacrosse comments as they could come back to haunt you!

[balthazar]

If there was a Cadillac Malibu at $45-50,000 it would be a joke, because it is too many price levels above the Malibu.

You mean like the joke the 7-series is ($71K) on the 5-series platform ($46K) ??

[Drew Dowdell]

If there was a Cadillac Malibu at $45-50,000 it would be a joke, because it is too many price levels above the Malibu.

You mean like the joke like the Rolls Royce Ghost ($225K) on the 7-series platform ($71k) which is in turn based on the 5-series platform ($41k)??

Re-fixed.

[balthazar]

^ Tee-hee!

[Lamar]

If there was a Cadillac Malibu at $45-50,000 it would be a joke, because it is too many price levels above the Malibu.

You mean like the joke like the Rolls Royce Ghost ($225K) on the 7-series platform ($71k) which is in turn based on the 5-series platform ($41k)??

Re-fixed.

Both the 5 and the Ghost are based on the 7.

[Robert Hall]

If there was a Cadillac Malibu at $45-50,000 it would be a joke, because it is too many price levels above the Malibu.

You mean like the joke like the Rolls Royce Ghost ($225K) on the 7-series platform ($71k) which is in turn based on the 5-series platform ($41k)??

Re-fixed.

Both the 5 and the Ghost are based on the 7.

True, but that's a premium RWD platform...not a mainstream transverse engine FWD platform.

[hyperv6]

So that would make the 5 or 7 a Rolls Cimarron.

Damn badge engineering I always thought the Rolls felt so much like a cheap 5 or 7 series.

Let just see what the XLS is once it hits the show or even the dealers and then pass judgment if GM has really done a good enough job that few would confuse it with the Lacrosse. So far they have been doing pretty well with making Chevys a Chevy and Buicks not a Chevy than they did in the past. With the price difference of the XTS I expect we will see things that they could not put into a Lacrosse at it's price point.

If this was a full on performance sedan the FWD would be an issue but that is not this cars Job. GM has made it clear that this is to advance the ball from the town car class and take it to the next level. That is a goal this car should be able to do and turn a great profit while not soiling the Cadillac name.

Not everyone wants a BMW M series or AMG and someone needs to make them a car. God knows Lincoln made a lot of money off of them and it was really the only thing that kept them alive. Now they are working without a net and it remains to be seen what the new direction is and if they can make up for the lack of the town car. It is a move that will pay off big or it will kill the division.

With Cadillac they have all the bases covered with RWD and the new XTS. THere is little risk here and more than anything more profit. Lets just see what they have done and then pass judgement. Many of the last few GM cars have been dissed by many like the Cruze for being under powered and too expensive and they were proven wrong. GM has been making some pretty good calls here and look like for once they really understand the people who are buying cars for once vs forcing just what they want on them.

Edited November 4, 2011 by hyperv6

[Lamar]

True, but that's a premium RWD platform...not a mainstream transverse engine FWD platform.

Right, so I was wondering what place it had in the discussion.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Lamar

[Drew Dowdell]

The orientation of the engine has nothing to do with how mainstream or not the car is. Subarus have north/south engines. Dodgefan's Intrepid has a north/south engine. The last generation VW Passat had a north/south engine. The Geo Tracker and Kia Sportage had north/south engines and they were way more mainstream than the SRX ever will be. The Camaro is going to sell close to 100k copies this year... do they have to be careful not to go over that or it will suddenly become "mainstream"?

[Robert Hall]

True, but that's a premium RWD platform...not a mainstream transverse engine FWD platform.

Right, so I was wondering what place it had in the discussion.

Meaning that can't compare premium BMW and RR RWD models to GM's FWD mass market models.

The orientation of the engine has nothing to do with how mainstream or not the car is. Subarus have north/south engines. Dodgefan's Intrepid has a north/south engine. The last generation VW Passat had a north/south engine. The Geo Tracker and Kia Sportage had north/south engines and they were way more mainstream than the SRX ever will be. The Camaro is going to sell close to 100k copies this year... do they have to be careful not to go over that or it will suddenly become "mainstream"?

Maybe 'mainstream' was the wrong word.... the point is, transverse engine w/ FWD is used on mainstream, volume cars...appliances. It has no place in expensive premium models (Lexus only uses it on their entry level volume appliances, for instance--the ES and RX, their serious models are RWD).

The XTS will be a volume entry lux model to compete with the MKS and ES. The weak FWD/transverse engine platform makes it uncompetititive with premium models from BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, etc.

I'd love to see GM build a legitimate large RWD competitor above the CTS to compete with BMW and M-B...but they aren't going to get there with a weak, mainstream FWD platform.

To put it in other terms, FWD is like McDonalds and Wal-Mart. Luxury cars need to aim higher.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

You have no idea what the powertrain is in the XTS yet. However, using the Lacrosse CXS as a bare minimum, the Lacrosse V6 is more powerful than the 528i by 50 horsepower and 30 ft-lb of torque and equal in horsepower to the 535i though behind in torque (but should be no surprise that the turbo BMW has more torque than the non-turbo Buick).

Simply turbo-charging the HF V6 will make the engine at least identical to the BMW in power if not more.

The biggest downfall for Cadillac would be the lack of an 8-speed transmission, but that is a GM problem not a platform problem.

[balthazar]

BMW & mercedes are without question mainstream within their segment- they flood the global market with retail & fleet sales and (bleed their own legacy with more & more niche models to make up for the weakening leadership in their core models). Mainstream = commonplace. They are in no way exclusive or uncommon.

Whether the platform originated with the 7-series or the 5-series or the RR, they share platforms.

This fact addresses smk's blanket generalization; that huge price differences on the same platform are 'weak' & 'lame'. His judgement, not mine.

[Drew Dowdell]

Whether the platform originated with the 7-series or the 5-series or the RR, they share platforms.

This fact addresses smk's blanket generalization; that huge price differences on the same platform are 'weak' & 'lame'. His judgement, not mine.

[smk4565]

I agree with Moltar's post.

The 5-series, 7-series, and Ghost may have similarities but it is still 3 different wheelbases (technically 5 since the 7-series and Ghost have 2 lenghts) and different track width. The Ghost and 7-series share 20% of parts. But all 3 have rear drive which is what the luxury sedan segment is.

If the Impala/LaCrosse/XTS all end up on the same platform with the same 3.6 liter v6, same transmission and the Cadillac just gets magnetic ride control (optional I assume), I don't see how you make the luxury car all that different than the standard car in driving dynamics. So then it becomes based on interior and features and you have why the Acura RL doesn't sell. It isn't worth the extra $25,000 for an Accord with a better interior and AWD.

My belief is that the XTS will be in the $45-55,000 range to cover where the DTS/STS sit now, so it will be about $5,000 more than an MKS, and $10,000 more than a CTS (unless the CTS price goes up). Is the XTS really going to be $10,000 better than a CTS when it is a LaCrosse underneath, I don't think so. And it doesn't build reputation or brand image, it just maintains status quo of Cadillac being an old man's car.

[Drew Dowdell]

It really depends on what your definition of "better" is.

You seem to think that everyone out there shopping in the $45k - $55k range takes along their stop watch, lateral g-force meter, and helmet.

If if were my $50k to spend, I almost certainly would go with the XTS over the CTS because, as much as I like the CTS, I prefer quiet and comfortable.... two traits that I'm certain the XTS will be better at. I'm already not adverse to either RWD or FWD, but I would opt for AWD for reasons of climate and terrain that I know you understand first hand.

The reason I can make this prediction on my spending habits is that if it were my $38k and the choice was between a Lacrosse or CTS, I would still go with the Lacrosse.

No old man is going to be able to operate Cadillac's CUE system just like they can't operate iDrive.

[smk4565]

But XTS will still body roll, a RWD car would ride smoother, and corner flatter. And I don't see why the CTS couldn't be more quiet than an XTS, drivetrain and platform don't have much to do with that. There are some pretty quiet rear drive cars out there.

[balthazar]

But XTS will still body roll...

How on Earth do you think you know that?

[Drew Dowdell]

Ok. Sorry.

You've really got me stumped now with these hairbrained ideas.

What property of a FWD car would cause it to body roll more than a RWD car?

The XTS will be quieter because, as you are so fond of pointing out it is "just a Lacrosse" one of the quietest cars in its segment. I don't doubt that Cadillac could make the CTS quiet. They just don't make it super quiet like the Lacrosse is.

You seem to forget that Cadillac and Buick send me cars to drive. I've had a Lacrosse twice (2 weeks total) and 3 different versions of CTS (3 weeks total) I think I'm smart enough to know which one I liked better for my personal tastes.

[Drew Dowdell]

But XTS will still body roll, a RWD car would ride smoother, and corner flatter. And I don't see why the CTS couldn't be more quiet than an XTS, drivetrain and platform don't have much to do with that. There are some pretty quiet rear drive cars out there.

About the Lacrosse

Edmunds: Those looking for a traditional, plush Buick ride will be pleased. However, so will most anyone who enjoys driving, as those who venture onto twisting two-lanes will be amazed at how nimble and sure-footed this 2-ton sedan feels. It's not exactly a sport sedan, but it is leaps and bounds ahead of the Lexus ES 350, while giving up nothing in terms of ride comfort.

Winding Road: Then there is the actual ride it self. It is very soft, but the suspension does a good job of keep body roll and vertical movement in check.

[smk4565]

Right, GM already builds the Lacrosse, that is their plush, quiet, full size sedan, why do they need another one? The purpose of keeping Buick around was to be that softer mid-luxury brand to compete with the Avalon, ES350, Lincolns, etc. Then Cadillac could be performance luxury.

The CTS is just as quiet as a LaCrosse, so is the 3-series for that matter. Anything the XTS does in terms of quietness and ride, I think would be better on a rear drive platform. And if they want a nicer LaCrosse, then make a Park Avenue and sell it as a Buick. Cadillac should be going for Standard of the World, not fancy Buick.

[hyperv6]

GM wants it because they can cram things into the XTS that they can't at the Buick price. AWD, Magnaride and many other more advanced systems will be seen in this car.

It appears you really don't remember how this platform can be outfitted with different wheel bases and tracks along with many other features that can set this car appart. This platform is very adaptable to many different things. GM just never had the money to advance them much after it first appeared with the lack of money. This is not like the W bodies were they just slapped on a few features and trim to make a new car.

Edited November 6, 2011 by hyperv6

[ocnblu]

When is the production version of the Xtra Too Sexy going to be shown? Later this munt?

[A Horse With No Name]

It really depends on what your definition of "better" is.

You seem to think that everyone out there shopping in the $45k - $55k range takes along their stop watch, lateral g-force meter, and helmet.

If if were my $50k to spend, I almost certainly would go with the XTS over the CTS because, as much as I like the CTS, I prefer quiet and comfortable.... two traits that I'm certain the XTS will be better at. I'm already not adverse to either RWD or FWD, but I would opt for AWD for reasons of climate and terrain that I know you understand first hand.

The reason I can make this prediction on my spending habits is that if it were my $38k and the choice was between a Lacrosse or CTS, I would still go with the Lacrosse.

No old man is going to be able to operate Cadillac's CUE system just like they can't operate iDrive.

People with that much money to spend will probably buy something like an Audi T, a Boxster, a Corvette, a BMW M3, or something if they want a performance car.

I like the CTS a whole lot...my main gripe is the lack of rear seat room for a car of its price and size.

Willing to give the Xtra Too Sexy as blu calls it a fair shake...I think it might be worthwhile.

...and I am going to incur some C and G hate for this, but I think Cadillac got the styling dead nuts on with this one. Very clean. A thumbs up from me!

[Drew Dowdell]

I think it is fair to say that I'm one of only three on this website who have sat in the thing. The styling is dead on for me and I have not been this smitten with a car since the original CTS was shown in 2002. If Cadillac gets even 75% of the concept car's interior into production, they'll have an extremely strong contender on their hands. We already know that the center stack, steering wheel, and gauge cluster are making it into production.

Cadillac XTS Concept interior:

Cadillac CUE System - Featured in a Cadillac SRX

[smk4565]

But will the XTS have a front bench for the highly desirable 6-passenger seating?

In all seriousness though, I am not a fan of the switchgear below the Nav screen, it looks a bit too Ford Edge/Lincoln MKX for me. And the narrow, horizontal center air vent is a retro cue in an otherwise modern interior. But some may like that. To me the XTS interior is a bit boring, but the real key will be what the production build quality is.