Cadillac v. Mercedes

[Drew Dowdell]

New Cadillac commercial I like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heSVK8s-gfo

[balthazar]

Snarky!

Balthy like.

[smk4565]

Everyone picks on the C300, the Suzuki Kizashi claims to be faster or handle better than it to. The C300 is slow, but that doesn't make it a bad car. And they do offer better engines for people who want to go faster. In general, I am not much of a fan of non-direct comparisons because you can always find one thing a car does better than another.

But look how many automakers want to make comparisons in ads to Mercedes. Compared to Mercedes who rarely mentions other auto brands in their commercials, they know they are the top brand, no need for them to compare to others.

[ocnblu]

Good one.

[Chris_Doane]

LoL, uh, what was that? A 50 yard race?

[pow]

Now let's try to see the Escalade go around a corner. Lol.

[dwightlooi]

Everyone picks on the C300, the Suzuki Kizashi claims to be faster or handle better than it to. The C300 is slow, but that doesn't make it a bad car. And they do offer better engines for people who want to go faster. In general, I am not much of a fan of non-direct comparisons because you can always find one thing a car does better than another.

But look how many automakers want to make comparisons in ads to Mercedes. Compared to Mercedes who rarely mentions other auto brands in their commercials, they know they are the top brand, no need for them to compare to others.

Actually, the C300 is not slow. It does 0-60 in 7.5 secs. That's faster than an SRX and fast enough to be "not objectionable" to most buyers who are enthusiasts.

[PurdueGuy]

Actually, the C300 is not slow. It does 0-60 in 7.5 secs. That's faster than an SRX and fast enough to be "not objectionable" to most buyers who are enthusiasts.

It's that land between slow and fast. It's plenty of pep for normal driving, but slow by racing standards.

[Northstar]

What a pointless commercial. Waste of money.

What exactly did it accomplish? Bash the C300? Or sell a Cadillac? I pick the former.

[smk4565]

I agree 0-60 in 7.5 seconds isn't really slow, it is adequate for regular driving. A V6 Camry or Accord can crush a C300 in a straight line, but so what. The C300 isn't meant for straight line speed. The C300 is there for people that want a Mercedes and don't care about speed.

So many brands want to try to knock Mercedes down to their level, but it won't work. If Cadillac wants to beat Mercedes, they have to raise themselves up, not try to bring Mercedes down.

[Drew Dowdell]

Everyone picks on the C300, the Suzuki Kizashi claims to be faster or handle better than it to. The C300 is slow, but that doesn't make it a bad car. And they do offer better engines for people who want to go faster. In general, I am not much of a fan of non-direct comparisons because you can always find one thing a car does better than another.

But look how many automakers want to make comparisons in ads to Mercedes. Compared to Mercedes who rarely mentions other auto brands in their commercials, they know they are the top brand, no need for them to compare to others.

Actually, the C300 is not slow. It does 0-60 in 7.5 secs. That's faster than an SRX and fast enough to be "not objectionable" to most buyers who are enthusiasts.

To put that into some perspective.

1999 Buick Park Ave Ultra - 7.6 .... with a 4-speed and pushrods even.

1994 Buick Roadmaster Limited - 7.8

1992 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Coupe 3.4 DOHC - 7.0

2004 Cadillac CTS 3.6l - 6.5

and for Dwight...

2012 Cadillac SRX 3.6 - 6.7

[Bimmer325]

CTS-V vs. C300? That was irrelevant to begin with.

And why tow the C300 away at the end? Are we supposed to be impressed that a vehicle in the Escalade's segment can tow a C-segment sedan? I have news for Cadillac: the GL450 can do the same thing--MB isn't wasting its time with stuff like this.

Cadillac should stick to advertising its own products' merits. This "snarky" nonsense comes across as forced.

[balthazar]

>>"CTS-V vs. C300? That was irrelevant to begin with."<<

It wasn't intended to be relevant; it played to the perception out there for the many unawares that it might take a V to dust a c300.

Towing it away is the visual for 'putting it on the trailer'- drag race speak for 'lost the race'.

Edited September 28, 2011 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

Pointless. Cadillacs need to sell on their own merits, not contrived comparisons to random competitor models.

[smk4565]

Agreed with Bimmer and Moltar. A V6 Camry can smoke an Escalade in a drag race, so what? It is a pointless and irrelevant comparison. Cadillac needs to get their own house in order and set the standard, not just make meaningless claims to appear like they matter.

[balthazar]

Ad world is full of pointless car commercials... AND lux brands comparing with other brands. We've all seen it and it's nothing new.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHoYZCvN2_A

[Robert Hall]

I remember in '70s Ford compared the Granada to a Mercedes in some ad...absurd.

[balthazar]

^ Same series of ads, Ford pitched against the Cadillac Seville in a laughable attempt to convince people they looked exactly the same.

[pow]

Everyone picks on the C300, the Suzuki Kizashi claims to be faster or handle better than it to. The C300 is slow, but that doesn't make it a bad car. And they do offer better engines for people who want to go faster. In general, I am not much of a fan of non-direct comparisons because you can always find one thing a car does better than another.

But look how many automakers want to make comparisons in ads to Mercedes. Compared to Mercedes who rarely mentions other auto brands in their commercials, they know they are the top brand, no need for them to compare to others.

Actually, the C300 is not slow. It does 0-60 in 7.5 secs. That's faster than an SRX and fast enough to be "not objectionable" to most buyers who are enthusiasts.

To put that into some perspective.

1999 Buick Park Ave Ultra - 7.6 .... with a 4-speed and pushrods even.

1994 Buick Roadmaster Limited - 7.8

1992 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Coupe 3.4 DOHC - 7.0

2004 Cadillac CTS 3.6l - 6.5

and for Dwight...

2012 Cadillac SRX 3.6 - 6.7

C300 does 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, according to Car and Driver. It just depends on who's testing it.

[smk4565]

Ad world is full of pointless car commercials... AND lux brands comparing with other brands. We've all seen it and it's nothing new.

Audi has to make claims on how they do something better than Mercedes or BMW, because in the USA they get crushed in sales despite selling cars at a lower price. These comparison ads are usually ways for a lesser brand to try to get noticed, because overall their car isn't as good. When you are on top, you don't have resort to stuff like that.

[hyperv6]

Cute but not a message Cadillac needs to send. I would like to see Cadillac stress more style, quality, comfort and image. A pick up truck pissing contest might be funny but really proves little.

Cadillac needs to do better.

[riviera74]

Here is what I would like to know: Other than the ATS and that ELR concept, what is Cadillac's vision for itself? What is Cadillac's unique selling point? It makes no sense to attack Mercedes when there is no clear and obvious reason for luxury car buyers to buy Cadillac instead of Mercedes or Jaguar or BMW or Lexus. There is a reason Cadillac went from the #1 luxury car brand in 1980 to an also-ran now. I suspect there are multiple reasons for this. How does Cadillac correct these issues and succeed, rather than become pointless like Lincoln?

[smk4565]

Agreed with Riviera74, there is no vision or unique selling point. Mercedes could make an ad with a 3.0 liter CTS vs a G55 AMG and laugh about how the Cadillac sport sedan is slower than a military truck/suv but they don't. They have better things to do.

[Robert Hall]

Here is what I would like to know: Other than the ATS and that ELR concept, what is Cadillac's vision for itself? What is Cadillac's unique selling point? It makes no sense to attack Mercedes when there is no clear and obvious reason for luxury car buyers to buy Cadillac instead of Mercedes or Jaguar or BMW or Lexus. There is a reason Cadillac went from the #1 luxury car brand in 1980 to an also-ran now. I suspect there are multiple reasons for this. How does Cadillac correct these issues and succeed, rather than become pointless like Lincoln?

I suppose the unique selling point is that Cadillac is American, which can work as a selling point w/ some demographic groups.

[Drew Dowdell]

the styling, the interior styling (benz and bmw are too flat for my tastes), the fact that I can have a great handling, great looking luxury car without $90 oil changes after the standard maintenance is up

[balthazar]

'Unique selling point'?? I don't get that.

Why do some people buy BMW and some buy mercedees (and some audi and some something else)??

A complex combination of preferences is usually what drives those with disposable income, and Cadillac offers yet another choice.

Why does someone buy a Cadillac? Because they like it and it suits their needs. Duh.

What is mercedees 'unique selling point' ?? They have a minivan, a cargo van and a 40-yr old military cast-off and BMW doesn't?

[pow]

the styling, the interior styling (benz and bmw are too flat for my tastes), the fact that I can have a great handling, great looking luxury car without $90 oil changes after the standard maintenance is up

I'm pretty sure most Cadillac dealers charge $100+ for oil service. Synthetic oil ain't cheap.

Luxury cars are inherently more expensive to maintain. Thankfully there are independent specialists that charge more reasonable rates.

[Drew Dowdell]

the styling, the interior styling (benz and bmw are too flat for my tastes), the fact that I can have a great handling, great looking luxury car without $90 oil changes after the standard maintenance is up

I'm pretty sure most Cadillac dealers charge $100+ for oil service. Synthetic oil ain't cheap.

Luxury cars are inherently more expensive to maintain. Thankfully there are independent specialists that charge more reasonable rates.

Nope. $29.95 for GM spec synthetic and they even rotate your tires for you.

[67impss]

^ Same series of ads, Ford pitched against the Cadillac Seville in a laughable attempt to convince people they looked exactly the same.

IIRC it was the Lincoln Versailles pitted against the Seville

[Z-06]

the styling, the interior styling (benz and bmw are too flat for my tastes), the fact that I can have a great handling, great looking luxury car without $90 oil changes after the standard maintenance is up

I'm pretty sure most Cadillac dealers charge $100+ for oil service. Synthetic oil ain't cheap.

Luxury cars are inherently more expensive to maintain. Thankfully there are independent specialists that charge more reasonable rates.

Nope. $29.95 for GM spec synthetic and they even rotate your tires for you.

I beg to differ. It is 59.95 for synthetic with tire rotation. 29.95 is regular oil change.

[balthazar]

^ Same series of ads, Ford pitched against the Cadillac Seville in a laughable attempt to convince people they looked exactly the same.

IIRC it was the Lincoln Versailles pitted against the Seville

That was done also, but I was referring to this:

[Drew Dowdell]

the styling, the interior styling (benz and bmw are too flat for my tastes), the fact that I can have a great handling, great looking luxury car without $90 oil changes after the standard maintenance is up

I'm pretty sure most Cadillac dealers charge $100+ for oil service. Synthetic oil ain't cheap.

Luxury cars are inherently more expensive to maintain. Thankfully there are independent specialists that charge more reasonable rates.

Nope. $29.95 for GM spec synthetic and they even rotate your tires for you.

I beg to differ. It is 59.95 for synthetic with tire rotation. 29.95 is regular oil change.

http://www.mycertifiedservice.com/auto-service-offers/

*Includes oil grade/specification required by the vehicle's Owner Manual.

There is no such thing as non-synthetic Dexos 2 oil. Before you say "it's a coupon"..... it's a perma-coupon. That special has been running forever.

[67impss]

^ Same series of ads, Ford pitched against the Cadillac Seville in a laughable attempt to convince people they looked exactly the same.

IIRC it was the Lincoln Versailles pitted against the Seville

That was done also, but I was referring to this:

Thanx Balthy I forgot that add but remember it now because the VW I just was thinking of the Lincoln add

As a side note my Auto instructor at HS would always knock his car he bought for his wife. "Hey Mr. Sylvester whose Ford is that in the shop? Oh I drove Moms Granada in today... Nice car but it's like steppin on a wet sponge 302cid with the notorious Variable Venturi(sp)carburator. I got to drive it once and he was right May God rest his soul. Looking back I sure loved that guy, missed seeing him before he died by 1 week.

[hyperv6]

We all know GM has not really given a full disclosure on what their plans are. But Ackerson has stated he wants Cadillac to be the leader in the Volume Luxury Market and the standard in styling, Luxury, Technology, Customer Service and Image. Many claim Bob Lutz is back with the primary goal to go after these things and what ever else they have planned.

This in mind we know Cadillac is going to look to dominate the $50K-110K market and in time may move up to go after Bently later. Cadillac to survive will need to move up as it can no longer compete with Buick and its competitors. Lincoln is near terminal and only a large gamble with a lot of money will turn them around. They are at least 15 years behind Cadillac in this game and while the Town Car was a profit center it did little for their image.

Cadillac is out to do what Porsche and Harley Davidson did to reclaim their image. They will make much better cars, charge more for them and make more money from them. Harley and Porsche both tried to do the cheaper models and cars only to comprimise their image the AMF bikes and the 924 and 944 did little to help the bottom line of either company and in turn they paid the price with poor quality and a hurt image.

Right now Benz is not making its best product they ever have made. They have many good cars but they also have issues with many models too. BMW is in a transition and moving to powerful smaller power plants. This puts them open for people to look else where if they have to change what they drive.

As of now the only future we know at Cadillac is the ATS and that is only the entry level. It is even still a mystery to us in many areas yet. We has the FWD sedan coming but it is hinted that it is just a filler and not a long term car. We know Alpha is back on now but we know nothing else. Cadillac is much like area 51 where something is heard and seen but tells us very little.

The wild card in all this is the economy. While it hurts sales of some luxury cars it helps some of the more expensive. In the future with the economy and fuel economy ratings to come the way of building and selling Luxury cars will change. This give Cadillac a chance to show up and try to set the pace. GM has more ability to do what needs done than anyone and it will only take someone leading the company to let the engineers and designers to do what they can do. Lutz proved this already and it shows in the cars he did. If Ackerson is seriouse we may see him let the horses run like we have not seen them in years at the tech center.

FYI Syn oil changes may be an issue for a guy with a Cobalt SS Turbo but not a guy in a Cadillac.

Note too what Mr Toyoda has done at Lexus and admitted that they screwed up and did not go far enough to make the best cars for people to get excited about. Thing are no longer done by commitee there and expect the cars to make progress and be more agressive in the market.

Things are up for grabs and those who don't get serious in the luxury market may become the next Packard.

Cadillac needs to make it special to own a Cadillac again and something not just everyone can but wants to do. It needs an image that says you are one of the better people because you own one of these cars. Most in this segment own these cars because of what the car does for their image says about them. If you can build the best car people will buy it because it is the best no matter the cost. GM first needs to earn this trust buy really building the best cars in class starting with the ATS. It has to be better and no longer just as good as the others.

Edited October 5, 2011 by hyperv6

[Z-06]

http://www.mycertifi...service-offers/

*Includes oil grade/specification required by the vehicle's Owner Manual.

There is no such thing as non-synthetic Dexos 2 oil. Before you say "it's a coupon"..... it's a perma-coupon. That special has been running forever.

I do not disagree, but right there on the main coupon body it says:

Diesel engines and vehicles requiring full synthetic oils, including select Cadillac models, are not included.

Also if an Owner's manual does not say synthetic is "required" then the dealer may not honor the form if you ask your car to have synthetic oil.

[A Horse With No Name]

Cute but not a message Cadillac needs to send. I would like to see Cadillac stress more style, quality, comfort and image. A pick up truck pissing contest might be funny but really proves little.

Cadillac needs to do better.

Exactly.

[Drew Dowdell]

FYI Syn oil changes may be an issue for a guy with a Cobalt SS Turbo but not a guy in a Cadillac.

Disagree. There are plenty of people who step into a 3-series or a C-class because they are reasonably well off DINKs but are still careful about money. My friend with the C-class is an exact example of this. After his first oil change at the dealer costing him $90, he had already sworn off Mercedes after his first and only one.

http://www.mycertifi...service-offers/

*Includes oil grade/specification required by the vehicle's Owner Manual.

There is no such thing as non-synthetic Dexos 2 oil. Before you say "it's a coupon"..... it's a perma-coupon. That special has been running forever.

I do not disagree, but right there on the main coupon body it says:

Diesel engines and vehicles requiring full synthetic oils, including select Cadillac models, are not included.

Also if an Owner's manual does not say synthetic is "required" then the dealer may not honor the form if you ask your car to have synthetic oil.

Aren't all GM vehicles Dexos2 required now?

[Z-06]

Aren't all GM vehicles Dexos2 required now?

Newer models after 2011.

[hyperv6]

That is just it if you are that worried you really are not buying the right car. There was a time when cars like this went to the affluent only and today too many that should not be buying them are then they complain oh my oil cost too much. If it cost too much there is Buick to take care of you.

The day where just anyone can buy or afford a Cadillac needs to come to an end. If anyone can buy one it lessens the image of the car. Many people lust for many cars they can not afford and it only enhances the experience of owning one of these cars for the people who do.

In the past few people could own or service a V16 and the ones that did it really placed you in society. As Cadillac became more available its image lowered to where it became just another car. GM put less effort into them to keep the price down and volume up hence the Cadalier we had in the 80's and Catera of the 90's.

The way I see it is my mother inlaw has money and is doing well. But I don't see here as enhancing the Cadillac ownership image as she is really more Buick material. She likes here DTS because she thinks it makes here look important but the fact is the image she has of Cadillac is an old one that has been gone for a long time. To get it back it needs owners that are better off than her.

In the past few people could own or service a V16 and the ones that did it really placed you in society. As Cadillac became more available its image lowered to where it became just another car. GM put less effort into them to keep the price down and volume up hence the Cadalier we had in the 80's and Catera of the 90's.

Cadillac should not be a car for everyone. When it was like that in the past it really ment something to own a Cadillac.

[Drew Dowdell]

Well what is Benz going to do once the A-class comes to the states? That's a $24k car... Cruze territory. The 1-series is 27k. That is Verano territory. You can't be having $90 oil changes in those classes. There are plenty of people who can afford a $90 oil change and can afford a car in the CTS/C-class/3-series price range yet do not want to pay $90 for an oil change.

My grandmother is a perfect example of someone like this. She had the 7-series twice because she always wanted a BMW. There are absolutely no money worries for her and the amount she drives means an oil change once a year. But despite her ability to pay she resented the excessive costs of maintenance for the car (on top of also being a lemon, twice)

After two 7-series, she went back to Buick but not because she couldn't afford another 7-series. Her Park Aves never let her down and now she has a loaded Lacrosse.

[Z-06]

Well what is Benz going to do once the A-class comes to the states? That's a $24k car... Cruze territory. The 1-series is 27k. That is Verano territory. You can't be having $90 oil changes in those classes. There are plenty of people who can afford a $90 oil change and can afford a car in the CTS/C-class/3-series price range yet do not want to pay $90 for an oil change.

Well if people cannot do a simple math that $90 synthetic oil change every 15,000 mile interval is actual cheaper than doing regular oil change at $20 at every 3,000 mile interval then something is wrong with them. Moreover the added benefit of synthetic oil being actually good to your engine by keeping the temperatures lower and thus increasing the engine life.

It is like buying a $1M condo in Manhattan and then complaining about the cost of electric bill.

[Drew Dowdell]

Which brings me right back to my point that synthetic oil changes do not EVER cost $90 at Cadillac.

[Robert Hall]

Well what is Benz going to do once the A-class comes to the states? That's a $24k car... Cruze territory. The 1-series is 27k. That is Verano territory. You can't be having $90 oil changes in those classes. There are plenty of people who can afford a $90 oil change and can afford a car in the CTS/C-class/3-series price range yet do not want to pay $90 for an oil change.

Well if people cannot do a simple math that $90 synthetic oil change every 15,000 mile interval is actual cheaper than doing regular oil change at $20 at every 3,000 mile interval then something is wrong with them.

Well, the general public--regardless of level of affluence--can't do math very well. Maintenance costs on old Mercedes and BMWs are high, so I would think it would be high on new ones also...(and don't new BMWs come w/ free maintenance for a year or two?)

[Z-06]

Well, the general public--regardless of level of affluence--can't do math very well. Maintenance costs on old Mercedes and BMWs are high, so I would think it would be high on new ones also...(and don't new BMWs come w/ free maintenance for a year or two?)

Yes BMW comes with 48months/50,000 miles free maintenance. But so do the Cadillacs, at least the 2011 did - I do not know whether the offer was extended into 2012.

[hyperv6]

Like I said if you are going to complain about the price of service you are buying are car you should not own.

I expect soon that almost all cars will come with syn oil anyways. As for me it has not increase my cost as the syn oil goes farther than the regular oil. For the most part we all change our oil much sooner than needed. Oils are better Engines are better and oil range is much longer as it does not break down as it used to.

I am amazed how many people do not follow the oil life in the DIC. It is very accurate and does a good job of giving oil life range. GM should promote this more as a useful item and not a novalty as some think it is. I too thought it was a gimick till I learned how GM does this.

As for BMW I have changed oil on some that have enough pain in the a$$ issues I wanted to charge them $100 to change it. On some of their cars they must only let the engineers work on the suspension.

Edited October 7, 2011 by hyperv6

[smk4565]

Which brings me right back to my point that synthetic oil changes do not EVER cost $90 at Cadillac.

So take a Benz to a Cadillac dealer for an oil change. I don't drive a Benz and spend $70+ for oil changes at Jiffy Lube because my car requires 8 quarts of oil. So $90 every 10k miles is still better than me paying $70 every 4-5,000. And I know there are some cheaper places, but Jiffy Lube has good service and does free top off, and my car burns about 2 quarts of oil between oil changes, and they checked, it has no leaks.

A Mercedes is also built to last. If may have expensive oil, but I still think a lot of GM product is built to look good for the first 5 years, and not for the long haul. To quote an S-class ad from a few years ago "you get what you pay for, it is that simple"

[hyperv6]

Which brings me right back to my point that synthetic oil changes do not EVER cost $90 at Cadillac.

So take a Benz to a Cadillac dealer for an oil change. I don't drive a Benz and spend $70+ for oil changes at Jiffy Lube because my car requires 8 quarts of oil. So $90 every 10k miles is still better than me paying $70 every 4-5,000. And I know there are some cheaper places, but Jiffy Lube has good service and does free top off, and my car burns about 2 quarts of oil between oil changes, and they checked, it has no leaks.

A Mercedes is also built to last. If may have expensive oil, but I still think a lot of GM product is built to look good for the first 5 years, and not for the long haul. To quote an S-class ad from a few years ago "you get what you pay for, it is that simple"

It was once true Benz was built to last but in many cases that is no longer true. They have come down to levels like many other comapanies anymore. As for Cadillac they used to look good for 3 years and today they can go ten with little issue. So past reality has become myth.

Edited October 7, 2011 by hyperv6

[riviera74]

I have an oil life meter in my 1999 Park Avenue Ultra. I discovered it when it asked for an oil change after the oil life went down to 20%. Do other GM cars now have this feature, particularly the 2011 and 2012 models?

[Drew Dowdell]

I think they all have that feature now.

[hyperv6]

I think all GM and all BMW's now have this but they are the only ones.

This would be good reason for GM to market this. Not only does it work but it would save many people money on unneeded oil changes if they educated them on how it really works. This is a a point Marketing could promote as a money saver in hard times and a green feature to the tree huggers shopping the ECO models.

As of now it is a missed markeitng talking point.