How Much For That Buick Verano In The Window?

[hyperv6]

Slam the door on a Sonata and slam the door on a Malibu... you'll feel right away which is the more solid vehicle

This Verano is either going to be a smash success or an abysmal failure... nothing in between

Slam the rear door on a Optima. It is the worst sound in the industry this side of Lada.

[Potluck]

I'll try that next time.... but I don't see too many Ladas around these days.

the regal and lacrosse are going to have to move up in their next versions. the lacrosse redesign should be, what, 2 years out?

[hyperv6]

I'll try that next time.... but I don't see too many Ladas around these days.

the regal and lacrosse are going to have to move up in their next versions. the lacrosse redesign should be, what, 2 years out?

For the Lada a old Fiat can sub in for it. Or Yugo.

Is suspect the Lacrosse will be right after the small SUV/Minivan or what ever they call it appears. GM will not let many of these cars get stale like they used too.

[regfootball]

The Regal turbo for some here come across as if it is some kind of a performance car which I don't understand. It is a sporty sedan but it is not a sports sedan and has never claimed to be. Just because a car has a turbo no longer means it is a sport sedan or performance car.

The fact is the Regal is a bridge to where GM is going and not the destination. THey needed something quick to market and they got it. We will see this car move and evolve into a much better car in the future.

As for the Sonata. It will be like many other Asian cars here in the midwest when it is 10 years old, Rare. You pay less because this car is all upfront. In time it will rust and fail like they did in the past. Hyundai is playing the middle between quaility/refinement and cost. These cars will not last for ever mechanically like a Cobalt or Beretta. GM trumed the mechanical end and always short cutted the interior and trim. GM car may not look pretty but they keep on running like the ever ready bunny.

just a mild aside. a customer today that came in and bought a Kizashi, was at a Heeyoondye dealer in the service dept after doing a sonata test and another customer at that place mentioned to go try a kizashi. my point is that it was apparently apparent to the customer that the quality of the hyundai once you experience it is something that gives you second thoughts..........

Slam the door on a Sonata and slam the door on a Malibu... you'll feel right away which is the more solid vehicle

This Verano is either going to be a smash success or an abysmal failure... nothing in between

Slam the rear door on a Optima. It is the worst sound in the industry this side of Lada.

slam the door on a regal and its immediately evident why the regal weights a lot more......

[frogger]

I don't think the Regal and Sonata are really comparable.. There is a big size and price difference. Might as well compare the A4 to the Malibu.

Well, both the Sonata and Regal are midsize mainstream FWD sedans. Same formula. One step above the entry level midsize for their respective companies (Optima and Malibu). Makes sense to compare them.

Sonata is a fullsize and not above the Optima, they are very similar in price depending on options. You might as well compare the Regal to a Taurus or Impala.

Sonata is a midsize. Azera is the full size.

My point was that Hyundai is supposed to be a step above Kia, like Buick is a step above Chevy.

The Sonata and Regal are both 4cyl FWD midsize sedans..they are more similar than different.

Cruze 95 cubic ft interior volume

Regal 97 cubic ft interior volume

Taurus 102 cubic ft interior volume

Sonata 104 cubic ft interior volume

Seems like the Verano will have an interior very close in dimensions to the Regal.

[hyperv6]

The Regal turbo for some here come across as if it is some kind of a performance car which I don't understand. It is a sporty sedan but it is not a sports sedan and has never claimed to be. Just because a car has a turbo no longer means it is a sport sedan or performance car.

The fact is the Regal is a bridge to where GM is going and not the destination. THey needed something quick to market and they got it. We will see this car move and evolve into a much better car in the future.

As for the Sonata. It will be like many other Asian cars here in the midwest when it is 10 years old, Rare. You pay less because this car is all upfront. In time it will rust and fail like they did in the past. Hyundai is playing the middle between quaility/refinement and cost. These cars will not last for ever mechanically like a Cobalt or Beretta. GM trumed the mechanical end and always short cutted the interior and trim. GM car may not look pretty but they keep on running like the ever ready bunny.

just a mild aside. a customer today that came in and bought a Kizashi, was at a Heeyoondye dealer in the service dept after doing a sonata test and another customer at that place mentioned to go try a kizashi. my point is that it was apparently apparent to the customer that the quality of the hyundai once you experience it is something that gives you second thoughts..........

Slam the door on a Sonata and slam the door on a Malibu... you'll feel right away which is the more solid vehicle

This Verano is either going to be a smash success or an abysmal failure... nothing in between

Slam the rear door on a Optima. It is the worst sound in the industry this side of Lada.

slam the door on a regal and its immediately evident why the regal weights a lot more......

I bet the Regal has better odds of being on the road yet in 20 years vs the Kia here on Ohio roads.

[Potluck]

[

Slam the door on a Sonata and slam the door on a Malibu... you'll feel right away which is the more solid vehicle

slam the door on a regal and its immediately evident why the regal weights a lot more......

IKEA plastic furniture is lighter than high quality hardwood stuff too.... I don't get your point.

[frogger]

I'll trust side impact reports over door shutting noises.

[Potluck]

I'll trust side impact reports over door shutting noises.

The side impact reports for the Regal and Optima are the same.

So now can we move on to long term durability?

[hyperv6]

I'll trust side impact reports over door shutting noises.

The side impact reports for the Regal and Optima are the same.

So now can we move on to long term durability?

They may crash the same but the public preception will be different if they compare. Most people go by how things sound and feel vs how they rate.

As for long term that is to be determind. Based on the past GM cars and Hyundai I would give GM an edge here. They may not all look pretty but many are still on the road 25 years later in the harshest weather areas of out country. When was the last time you saw a 20 year old Hyundai in the midwest? I mean even one that is just park in a drive way disabled? Now how many Corisca, Lumina's, Baretta's, GM H bodies etc to you still see rolling along?

I have have several friends dump they Hyundais well before the warranty was out as they were just having too many issues with non warranty parts. Two lone dumped them for used HHR's and could not have been happier.

Hyundia has improved over the early years but they do save cost in many areas and it does catch up with the cars. GM cut corners in the past with paint and interior. THey did invest well in drivetrains and the old cars show this as the interior looks like crap but the car keep on running and running with little issues.

[Paolino]

I'll trust side impact reports over door shutting noises.

The side impact reports for the Regal and Optima are the same.

So now can we move on to long term durability?

They may crash the same but the public preception will be different if they compare. Most people go by how things sound and feel vs how they rate.

As for long term that is to be determind. Based on the past GM cars and Hyundai I would give GM an edge here. They may not all look pretty but many are still on the road 25 years later in the harshest weather areas of out country. When was the last time you saw a 20 year old Hyundai in the midwest? I mean even one that is just park in a drive way disabled? Now how many Corisca, Lumina's, Baretta's, GM H bodies etc to you still see rolling along?

I have have several friends dump they Hyundais well before the warranty was out as they were just having too many issues with non warranty parts. Two lone dumped them for used HHR's and could not have been happier.

Hyundia has improved over the early years but they do save cost in many areas and it does catch up with the cars. GM cut corners in the past with paint and interior. THey did invest well in drivetrains and the old cars show this as the interior looks like crap but the car keep on running and running with little issues.

Well, only have experience with just the one, but I'm driving a Sonata with almost 90K miles on it now and the only problem it's ever been taken in for was the compressor went. I can't tell you how many "little" things the Lucerne has had to go back for in its 55K miles... including its most recent one, cables dangling by the rear wheels under the car on the driver side because a clip broke.

[Paolino]

Well, only have experience with just the one, but I'm driving a Sonata with almost 90K miles on it now and the only problem it's ever been taken in for was the compressor went. I can't tell you how many "little" things the Lucerne has had to go back for in its 55K miles... including its most recent one, cables dangling by the rear wheels under the car on the driver side because a clip broke.

What I am getting at is the quality of Hyundai 20 years ago is not equal to the quality of Hyundai today. That needs to be taken into consideration.

[Drew Dowdell]

Hyundai can't keep the hinges from rusting 3 years in around here.... they certainly aren't going to make it to 20.

[A Horse With No Name]

Hyundai can't keep the hinges from rusting 3 years in around here.... they certainly aren't going to make it to 20.

The whole thing with Hyundai is that they still feel ungodly cheap crap...even the Genesis coupe feels like an old 80's Atari game station....

[smk4565]

I don't think the Regal and Sonata are really comparable.. There is a big size and price difference. Might as well compare the A4 to the Malibu.

They are 0.4 inches different in length. But they aren't that comparable since the Sonata is more powerful, lighter, more fuel efficient, lower in cost, and has better warranty.

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't think the Regal and Sonata are really comparable.. There is a big size and price difference. Might as well compare the A4 to the Malibu.

They are 0.4 inches different in length. But they aren't that comparable since the Regal is quieter, more comfortable, uses much higher quality materials, handles substantially better, and will last longer.

Agreed totally!

[hyperv6]

The two cars are similar in some areas while different in other areas. The Buick is aimed at a little different class.

The Sonata is not as quiet, has a engine that is not as refined in sound and vibration etc. There is a reason the Hyundai is cheaper and the Buick is heavier, it is in the details.

I bet 10 years from now the Buick is in better shape and will have better resale.

The real truth is the Regal is a gap filler till Buick can get what they need. This car was well on the way to being a Saturn till they died. Buick needed product fast and this was on the shelf. A few tweeks to a decent car and they had a new product in the showroom. The Regal as we know it will be gone sooner than most models as I expect a car to far advance the Buick line will be not too far off. Just as the ATS is the first of the post chapter 11 Cadillacs we have yet to see any post Chapter 11 Buicks yet.

It is too soon to judge Buick too harshly.

Keep in mind that GM has not called this a true sports sedan and it is right now a sporty sedan. I get the many see turbo and assume that means it is full blown performance car. That is not the case anymore. Why the Sonata may have a faster Turbo it is not a M3 killer nore is it even close to their best seller. It is just an option and is like the GS a sporty sedan with more power.

Edited September 21, 2011 by hyperv6

[frogger]

Verano is more similar to the Regal than Sonata is in just about every way, other than Sonata also offering a turbo engine. They're both pricier, smallish premium sedans vs a mainstream large cheap family sedan.

Edited September 21, 2011 by frogger

[Drew Dowdell]

The two cars are similar in some areas while different in other areas. The Buick is aimed at a little different class.

The Sonata is not as quiet, has a engine that is not as refined in sound and vibration etc. There is a reason the Hyundai is cheaper and the Buick is heavier, it is in the details.

I bet 10 years from now the Buick is in better shape and will have better resale.

The real truth is the Regal is a gap filler till Buick can get what they need. This car was well on the way to being a Saturn till they died. Buick needed product fast and this was on the shelf. A few tweeks to a decent car and they had a new product in the showroom. The Regal as we know it will be gone sooner than most models as I expect a car to far advance the Buick line will be not too far off. Just as the ATS is the first of the post chapter 11 Cadillacs we have yet to see any post Chapter 11 Buicks yet.

It is too soon to judge Buick too harshly.

Keep in mind that GM has not called this a true sports sedan and it is right now a sporty sedan. I get the many see turbo and assume that means it is full blown performance car. That is not the case anymore. Why the Sonata may have a faster Turbo it is not a M3 killer nore is it even close to their best seller. It is just an option and is like the GS a sporty sedan with more power.

Well not entirely true. The Regal was always planned for sale in China. The Saturn was just going to be the Insignia we see today with the name scratched off. With the death of Saturn, GM just took the Chinese fascia and put it on the Opel.

[hyperv6]

The two cars are similar in some areas while different in other areas. The Buick is aimed at a little different class.

The Sonata is not as quiet, has a engine that is not as refined in sound and vibration etc. There is a reason the Hyundai is cheaper and the Buick is heavier, it is in the details.

I bet 10 years from now the Buick is in better shape and will have better resale.

The real truth is the Regal is a gap filler till Buick can get what they need. This car was well on the way to being a Saturn till they died. Buick needed product fast and this was on the shelf. A few tweeks to a decent car and they had a new product in the showroom. The Regal as we know it will be gone sooner than most models as I expect a car to far advance the Buick line will be not too far off. Just as the ATS is the first of the post chapter 11 Cadillacs we have yet to see any post Chapter 11 Buicks yet.

It is too soon to judge Buick too harshly.

Keep in mind that GM has not called this a true sports sedan and it is right now a sporty sedan. I get the many see turbo and assume that means it is full blown performance car. That is not the case anymore. Why the Sonata may have a faster Turbo it is not a M3 killer nore is it even close to their best seller. It is just an option and is like the GS a sporty sedan with more power.

Well not entirely true. The Regal was always planned for sale in China. The Saturn was just going to be the Insignia we see today with the name scratched off. With the death of Saturn, GM just took the Chinese fascia and put it on the Opel.

I was speaking only of the American market. This was to have been a Saturn and nothing more here. Once Saturn was gone it opened it up for Buick here to fill the show room at a time they needed more product fast. It was a fast cheap fix for Buick and also worked with the plans to let Opel move up market and share models with Buick.

[A Horse With No Name]

Starting price seems a bit on the inexpensive side...

Considering the apocalyptic state of the economy, not a bad thing for Buick, my friend!

Buick need an absolute clone of the Astra coupe here, no softening or Americanization like is being done with the sedan.

I would say the wagon is needed also.

Just import the wagon and hatch in low volumes and keep the Opel ness.

Astra coupe may come back as a Verano Coupe...I just hope they market it right this time.

Astra was a sweet little car, shame it never took off for GM!

[Sixty8panther]

it will be the 21st century Skylark.

Either in a good way (1961) or a bad way (1996-98)

[hyperv6]

Starting price seems a bit on the inexpensive side...

Considering the apocalyptic state of the economy, not a bad thing for Buick, my friend!

Buick need an absolute clone of the Astra coupe here, no softening or Americanization like is being done with the sedan.

I would say the wagon is needed also.

Just import the wagon and hatch in low volumes and keep the Opel ness.

Astra coupe may come back as a Verano Coupe...I just hope they market it right this time.

Astra was a sweet little car, shame it never took off for GM!

The Astra never took off as no one knew about it. Saturn did Saturn adds on TV but never really featured the car in media print of broadcast. I have said this for a long time as I still get people asking me what kind of car is that when they see one and are shocked it was a Saturn.

Bob Lutz in his book verified what I had been thinking as he stated the Astra had no chance with no marketing money left for Saturn. He points this out in his book.

[hyperv6]

it will be the 21st century Skylark.

Either in a good way (1961) or a bad way (1996-98)

There was a good Skylark?

I have been in a 61 many times and it was not that great of a car. the era of the Skylark was 65-72. Mostly 65-67 and 70-72. It was a nicer Chevelle.

[pow]

The two cars are similar in some areas while different in other areas. The Buick is aimed at a little different class.

The Sonata is not as quiet, has a engine that is not as refined in sound and vibration etc. There is a reason the Hyundai is cheaper and the Buick is heavier, it is in the details.

I bet 10 years from now the Buick is in better shape and will have better resale.

The real truth is the Regal is a gap filler till Buick can get what they need. This car was well on the way to being a Saturn till they died. Buick needed product fast and this was on the shelf. A few tweeks to a decent car and they had a new product in the showroom. The Regal as we know it will be gone sooner than most models as I expect a car to far advance the Buick line will be not too far off. Just as the ATS is the first of the post chapter 11 Cadillacs we have yet to see any post Chapter 11 Buicks yet.

It is too soon to judge Buick too harshly.

Keep in mind that GM has not called this a true sports sedan and it is right now a sporty sedan. I get the many see turbo and assume that means it is full blown performance car. That is not the case anymore. Why the Sonata may have a faster Turbo it is not a M3 killer nore is it even close to their best seller. It is just an option and is like the GS a sporty sedan with more power.

Well not entirely true. The Regal was always planned for sale in China. The Saturn was just going to be the Insignia we see today with the name scratched off. With the death of Saturn, GM just took the Chinese fascia and put it on the Opel.

Chinese Regal fascia and US Regal fascia are different. US Regal is just an Insignia with a different grill.

[balthazar]

it will be the 21st century Skylark. Either in a good way (1961) or a bad way (1996-98)

There was a good Skylark? I have been in a 61 many times and it was not that great of a car. the era of the Skylark was 65-72. Mostly 65-67 and 70-72. It was a nicer Chevelle.

Special / Skylark pulled Buick out of the sales fire in '61 and after. Buick was #3 in '55, #9 in '60 and back up to #5 by '65.

These Skylarks were Buicks, not 'nicer Chevelles'. Or were Chevelles 'crappier Skylarks'?

Not everything General Motors has done can be distilled into tweaks on Chevrolets.

Edited September 24, 2011 by balthazar

[A Horse With No Name]

it will be the 21st century Skylark. Either in a good way (1961) or a bad way (1996-98)

There was a good Skylark? I have been in a 61 many times and it was not that great of a car. the era of the Skylark was 65-72. Mostly 65-67 and 70-72. It was a nicer Chevelle.

Special / Skylark pulled Buick out of the sales fire in '61 and after. Buick was #3 in '55, #9 in '60 and back up to #5 by '65.

These Skylarks were Buicks, not 'nicer Chevelles'. Or were Chevelles 'crappier Skylarks'?

Not everything General Motors has done can be distilled into tweaks on Chevrolets.

Bingo...and I wish we were back in the 1960's, with distinct brands and identities...lots of the time....

[Satty]

Maybe C&G can start a fund to buy a Mr. Fusion....

[ocnblu]

Perhaps we'll land in Britain, where a Miniature FWD car was all the rage, baby. BEEHAVE!

[hyperv6]

it will be the 21st century Skylark. Either in a good way (1961) or a bad way (1996-98)

There was a good Skylark? I have been in a 61 many times and it was not that great of a car. the era of the Skylark was 65-72. Mostly 65-67 and 70-72. It was a nicer Chevelle.

Special / Skylark pulled Buick out of the sales fire in '61 and after. Buick was #3 in '55, #9 in '60 and back up to #5 by '65.

These Skylarks were Buicks, not 'nicer Chevelles'. Or were Chevelles 'crappier Skylarks'?

Not everything General Motors has done can be distilled into tweaks on Chevrolets.

They may have fooled you but not everyone. LOL! While GM did not share as much back then as they did in the 80's these cars were more alike than many like to think. But on the other hand it make restoring them much easier. They may have not been identical twins but they were sisters.

The unibody GM cars in 61 was more a sister to the Corvair only with a front engine.

Its not a sin as they all did it. The Mustang was a Falcon under the skin too.

Perhaps we'll land in Britain, where a Miniature FWD car was all the rage, baby. BEEHAVE!

It is amazing how many of those Toyota Astons are being sold. Proves there is a still a sucker born every min. Hmmm I bet they are selling most of them to the French.

[balthazar]

it will be the 21st century Skylark. Either in a good way (1961) or a bad way (1996-98)

There was a good Skylark? I have been in a 61 many times and it was not that great of a car. the era of the Skylark was 65-72. Mostly 65-67 and 70-72. It was a nicer Chevelle.

Special / Skylark pulled Buick out of the sales fire in '61 and after. Buick was #3 in '55, #9 in '60 and back up to #5 by '65.

These Skylarks were Buicks, not 'nicer Chevelles'. Or were Chevelles 'crappier Skylarks'?

Not everything General Motors has done can be distilled into tweaks on Chevrolets.

They may have fooled you but not everyone. LOL! While GM did not share as much back then as they did in the 80's these cars were more alike than many like to think.

There you go again- thinking/assuming for others- how helpful. Again; why not merely state your own opinion and allow others to state theirs?

BTW- I've never been fooled into thinking a Buick engine was a Chevrolet engine or a Buick interior was a Chevrolet interior on these cars. To each his own perceptions!

In my area of interest in GM cars, they share about 5-10% physically, and that's just about perfect, IMO. Sucks for restoration, but it makes each car it's own creation.

[hyperv6]

Your glass is half full while mine is half empty. It is all in what and how you see it but it all amounts to the same thing.

I see what they share as a plus as often it has made it easier to keep these cars running and on the road where many others sit a rot. The hard mechanicals an bits are what keep em going not the trim.

I know it is damn impossible to get some of the trim bits and the original engines are harder to find but like many a GTO out there if you can't find a non wore out Pontiac Rear the Chevy will bolt in till you find one.

[balthazar]

You should be a speech writer for a politician.

Engines are usually considered 'hard mechanicals', not to mention often the 'soul' of an automobile. Good luck bolting a Chevy water pump on the front of a Buick 340.

It's not about 'positive/negative', IMO it's just the reality. Individuality is a virtue, not a hinderance, and that extends to automobiles, too. If I wanted 'easy', I'd own a '60s Mustang.

Frankly, I'd prefer MORE separation in the GM intermediates in the '60s; it was the beginning of a long slippery slope GM is still on in some regards.

If you want to call that a 'positive', knock yourself out.

[hyperv6]

You should be a speech writer for a politician.

Engines are usually considered 'hard mechanicals', not to mention often the 'soul' of an automobile. Good luck bolting a Chevy water pump on the front of a Buick 340.

It's not about 'positive/negative', IMO it's just the reality. Individuality is a virtue, not a hinderance, and that extends to automobiles, too. If I wanted 'easy', I'd own a '60s Mustang.

Frankly, I'd prefer MORE separation in the GM intermediates in the '60s; it was the beginning of a long slippery slope GM is still on in some regards.

If you want to call that a 'positive', knock yourself out.

The water pump will not bolt on but that Chevy engine is a easy fit to the Buick as well as the tranny, rear in most cases control arms, door handles and many many other parts.

I see it like a cake. While the base is the same you can frost them differently.

I agree the engines were the soul and that was the begining of the end of many of these cars. When they dropped in a Olds in a TA that was when Pontiac for me failed to really be a Pontiac. The Firebird even with a different engine was not different enough many years. But then again when we needed fenders for a 1967 400 it was nice the Camaro units were direct bolt on's.

This is why we can argue our points here these cars in many ways were as different in some areas as they were alike in others. It is all just how MFG's have to work too control cost. While most Share hard points they at least in the past let them work the other areas.

I see this again happing now that they are down to just a few divisions. I too think the key to Buick and Cadillac's future is to be able to offer differenly tuned engines. I know to do an entire engine would be crazy expensive but if they could dress and tune them just for their division it would help restore some brand pride.

This is where the BMW deal would be nice if they could work a deal on a joint V8 for Cadillac that would boost their image. The Chevy engine is nice but it would be nicer if Cadillac had an engine that really was a Cadillac.

[SAmadei]

The water pump will not bolt on but that Chevy engine is a easy fit to the Buick as well as the tranny, rear in most cases control arms, door handles and many many other parts.

I see it like a cake. While the base is the same you can frost them differently.

A Ford rear can be put into a Chevy with the right parts. By your argument, Ford and GM are like fraternal twins. However, that is an invalid argument... most cars share similarities to their contemporaries... and have similar part "units" that can be interchanged if someone, either in the aftermarket or the OEM wants it to interchange. Humans share 99% of our DNA with Chimpanzees, but for some reason, we're not letting them vote.

Following somewhat along with your cake analogy, putting frosting on a loaf of whole wheat bread does not make a cake... even if both are made with wheat flour and eggs.

[ocnblu]

But hyper, it wouldn't BE a Cadillac, it would be a BMW, and that is a no-no.

[balthazar]

Well put, SAmadei.

I have a 'Chrysler' rear in my Buick, and a Buick motor 13 years newer...

tho I could have just as 'easily' put a Ford motor 20 years older in.

All these things (as well as putting a Chevy 350 in where a Buick 340 lived) take is a welder.

[hyperv6]

But hyper, it wouldn't BE a Cadillac, it would be a BMW, and that is a no-no.

If it does happen more than not it would be a joint venture and not just a BMW engine out of the crate. I would expect a deal similar to the Lotus/Chevy ZR1 engine only this time it would be done right with the better technology today. The present and future electonics can make a lot of things happen never possible in the past.

Cadillac does not want a full on BMW engine any more than BMW would want to give them one right out of one of their cars. Their engineering arm and engine plant are just right for building lower volume special engines. They have done it in the past with great results and it could either be a trade for money or electronic help with a Volt like system.

You will find the unwashed masses will pay more for a BMW powered V8 Cadillac vs a Chevy powered or V6 one of the same power. It comes down to not what the reality is but the preception is. If they already think BMW is gods gift then give them what they want at a higher price.

It is all about making money with a car that people find pleasure in, Lutz is king of understanding this. If people feel pride and have a car that makes them feel special they over look a lot of things they would complain on in any other car.

This is something Buick also needs is to make people feel like they have a special car. A car that enhances their image and standing above others. BMW has made some crap cars but people love them and over look the expensive repair bills just because how the car makes them feel.

I look for Buick to grow more into their own in 5 years and we will see cars that have more space between them and Chevy. Also with Cadillac moving up more it will let Buick expand into a large market with out stepping into Cadillacs market. This is a growing time and these cars are only setting the direction to the destination.

[hyperv6]

The water pump will not bolt on but that Chevy engine is a easy fit to the Buick as well as the tranny, rear in most cases control arms, door handles and many many other parts.

I see it like a cake. While the base is the same you can frost them differently.

A Ford rear can be put into a Chevy with the right parts. By your argument, Ford and GM are like fraternal twins. However, that is an invalid argument... most cars share similarities to their contemporaries... and have similar part "units" that can be interchanged if someone, either in the aftermarket or the OEM wants it to interchange. Humans share 99% of our DNA with Chimpanzees, but for some reason, we're not letting them vote.

Following somewhat along with your cake analogy, putting frosting on a loaf of whole wheat bread does not make a cake... even if both are made with wheat flour and eggs.

Sorry I am not fooled. GM used the term A body for a reason as they are all based on the same platform. Each divison got to trim them in the ways they liked but they are still A bodys with many shared hard point parts.

About the only platform that was not shared GM used in recent history was the P body Fiero as it had its own platform but even then it share many parts from the X body and A body.

I like how you say with the right parts you can bolt in Ford rear. In my case you can bolt in the Chevy with no extra parts.

Now you argument of a Ford rear in a Chevy is not valid as it will not just bolt in unless it is a custom aftermarket unit. Now on the other hand the 12 bolt and 10 bolt stock Chevelle rear will bolt right in to a GTO. It is so simple that chimp you brought in could almost do it.

Since the frames are either the same or nearly the same as well as the main structure to the body that makes the car nearly the same. Sure you can bolt a different dash in it as well door panels add a little more insulation and plop you division engine in it and call it a Buick that is fine but the basic car is a A body no matter how you spin.... I mean trim it.

Guys if you are happy thinking your A bodies from the 60's are all truly unique cars that is fine. Just accept that I and many others don't agree. Many of these cars even came off the same assmbly line built by the same workers, they were not Buick workers or Olds or Pontiac but GM workers. Just like we are GM fans here we may not agree but we all do agree on liking GM cars.

Again this is just a case of where we will have to agree to disagree.

[Robert Hall]

Coming back to 2012, I wonder if there will be eventually any powertrain variations in the Verano? An Eco-like version or a GS version down the road..could be interesting.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[ocnblu]

Well, we've read that the turbo engine out of the Riggle will likely go into the Verano, with the manual transmission. I hope it's the high-turned one. An Eco we could do without.

[balthazar]

hyperv6 ~ >>"Sorry I am not fooled. GM used the term A body for a reason as they are all based on the same platform.

HA! You DID get fooled- these cars don't have "platforms".

>>"I like how you say with the right parts you can bolt in Ford rear. In my case you can bolt in the Chevy with no extra parts."<<

You'll need Chevy brackets, relocated, for the Buick's frame to accept the Chevy motor mounts. If you have an auto, you'll also need a Chevy-patterned trans to replace the likely BOP HydraMatic. You also may need to swap driveshafts to get the right length. I would call these 'extra parts'.

>>"Now you argument of a Ford rear in a Chevy is not valid as it will not just bolt in unless it is a custom aftermarket unit. Now on the other hand the 12 bolt and 10 bolt stock Chevelle rear will bolt right in to a GTO. It is so simple that chimp you brought in could almost do it."<<

The chimp would do well to consider replacing the Chevelle's weak, C-clip axle for a BOP rear.

Ford rear does not have to be a 'custom aftermarket' one, you just have to be friendly with a welder.

>>"Sure you can bolt a different dash in it as well door panels add a little more insulation and plop you division engine in it and call it a Buick that is fine but the basic car is a A body no matter how you spin.... I mean trim it."<<

What about the 100% different exterior sheet metal? That is a lot more than 'trim'.

>>"Many of these cars even came off the same assmbly line built by the same workers, they were not Buick workers or Olds or Pontiac but GM workers."<<

The Flint plant, Lansing plant and the Pontiac plant workers would disagree with you.

Edited September 26, 2011 by balthazar

[hyperv6]

hyperv6 ~ >>"Sorry I am not fooled. GM used the term A body for a reason as they are all based on the same platform.

HA! You DID get fooled- these cars don't have "platforms".

>>"I like how you say with the right parts you can bolt in Ford rear. In my case you can bolt in the Chevy with no extra parts."<<

You'll need Chevy brackets, relocated, for the Buick's frame to accept the Chevy motor mounts. If you have an auto, you'll also need a Chevy-patterned trans to replace the likely BOP HydraMatic. You also may need to swap driveshafts to get the right length. I would call these 'extra parts'.

>>"Now you argument of a Ford rear in a Chevy is not valid as it will not just bolt in unless it is a custom aftermarket unit. Now on the other hand the 12 bolt and 10 bolt stock Chevelle rear will bolt right in to a GTO. It is so simple that chimp you brought in could almost do it."<<

The chimp would do well to consider replacing the Chevelle's weak, C-clip axle for a BOP rear.

Ford rear does not have to be a 'custom aftermarket' one, you just have to be friendly with a welder.

>>"Sure you can bolt a different dash in it as well door panels add a little more insulation and plop you division engine in it and call it a Buick that is fine but the basic car is a A body no matter how you spin.... I mean trim it."<<

What about the 100% different exterior sheet metal? That is a lot more than 'trim'.

>>"Many of these cars even came off the same assmbly line built by the same workers, they were not Buick workers or Olds or Pontiac but GM workers."<<

The Flint plant, Lansing plant and the Pontiac plant workers would disagree with you.

Ok we both made our points and at this point I stopped reading. I gave you the last word so lets get back to the topic before the natives get restless here. You have your view and I have mine that is just the way we both see it and while I may still may not not agree I can accept that. We could continue this and still never prove it one way or the other. Like I said before Glass half full and half empty here there are no absolutes to prove this one 100% either way.

Edited September 26, 2011 by hyperv6

[hyperv6]

Well, we've read that the turbo engine out of the Riggle will likely go into the Verano, with the manual transmission. I hope it's the high-turned one. An Eco we could do without.

While you and I may not want a Eco I could see this version being popular in sales and added income for GM. The Cruze version has done better than anyone and even GM I think considerd. I know several people I never expected to own a Cruze let along a Eco version just thrilled with theirs. The love how it drives and even are getting better MPG than the posted numbers.

Oil prices have come down but we are still faced with high gas prices. I expect the coming jump into winter they always stick us with.

[Drew Dowdell]

Coming back to 2012, I wonder if there will be eventually any powertrain variations in the Verano? An Eco-like version or a GS version down the road..could be interesting.

No to the Eco, that is what the e-Assist is for at Buick.

Possibly for the GS, Welburn asked us what we thought of the possibility.... however, he stressed that it could only be FWD and not AWD.

[Drew Dowdell]

Well, we've read that the turbo engine out of the Riggle will likely go into the Verano, with the manual transmission. I hope it's the high-turned one. An Eco we could do without.

Why are you always against GM making a version of a car that will make them money and improve perception with non-car-people?

[Paolino]

Well, we've read that the turbo engine out of the Riggle will likely go into the Verano, with the manual transmission. I hope it's the high-turned one. An Eco we could do without.

You don't think people would eat up a 40mpg Verano? I think people would love a premium car with great features and awesome fuel economy.