Full Review: 2011 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe

[smk4565]

The good thing about the CTS-V is having 3 body styles so it appeals to a wider base of people. However, I wonder if the V wagon will be short lived if sales are too low.

On the lack of rear arm rest on CTS coupes, that shows the cost cutter that lives with in GM. If they cost cut on something passengers can touch, I know they cost cut on places the consumer doesn't see. So the CTS-V is what it is, its and entry level luxury car with a big engine. It is the same formula used on a Shelby Mustang or SRT Charger, just with a slightly better starting point. So if you want an entry level car with a big engine, it is the car for you.

[Chris_Doane]

just in time for the CTS refresh (2 years)

Ain't no refresh coming.

Next-gen on a new chassis is next.

[Camino LS6]

That big, fat, (and stubby) ass is why I prefer the wagon over the coupe.

But I'd enjoy driving the wheels off of any V variant.

Still, I'd only consider taking the wagon home.

So the mutts can have fun too.

I'd have to hogtie Arkus before I'd let him ride in any car I paid real money for - he's like a furry wrecking ball!

[Drew Dowdell]

just in time for the CTS refresh (2 years)

Good, at least it'll be getting one. Remember, there was supposed to be an interior refresh for 2012 that was announced at the Coupe's launch. Cadillac knew it was barely class-competitive even back in 2010.

Sedan and Wagon were planned from the start. The Coupe came about when a designer was working late one night and just doodling ideas when Ed Welburn wandered over (as Ed relayed the story to me). As for the room, they were working within the confines of a platform that was not initially intended for the type of car they were building. As for baubles and brightwork, this was planned as a low volume car for the U.S. only market at a time when GM was steaming straight into bankruptcy. They never thought it would sell as well as it has.

Why are you taking it personally that I don't put people in the back of my cars? I think the rear seat of my Toronado has been used one week (when we had out of country visitors) out of the year that I've owned it.

Those are a bunch of excuses that doesn't really explain anything adequately. If GM was trying to cut costs and just get the thing to market, then why not keep costs down by re-using the CTS sedan's rear bench? It seats 3 and has an armrest. I really, really have a hard time believing that it just cost so much to put even a fixed armrest back there that it would have killed the project and forced GM to raise the MSRP so much that no one would ever buy it.

Also, I'm not taking it personally that you don't put people in the back seat--you're the one rolling your eyes and telling me I should pray for Jesus to buy me a Mercedes because I find fault with the rear seat--that kind of attitude is just completely unprofessional and inappropriate given that I was criticizing GM and the car, not you. You're making it personal, when I'm just faulting the car.

Maybe you'll understand better if you and Albert ever decide to settle down or even maybe adopt--but you shouldn't have to sacrifice fun for practicality. I can drive 55 in a CTS coupe, but I can't fling an Enclave around the twisties.

Again, , it was a last minute design that needed Welburn and Lutz to push it through.

I'm rolling my eyes at the idea that the best luxury high performance coupe on the market is being judged not on the merits of it's performance or absolutely sublime front seats, but on the quality or lack thereof of the rear seat cup holder. It is just as eye roll worthy as the Great Enclave Manu-Matic shift debate of 2007.

I use the backseat in my car a lot...so much that I've considered getting a 7-series. I don't think anyone cares what the back seat is like...my car always ends up being the drunk bus. We've been known to cram seven or more people in my car (even one in the trunk, once). That being said, I like knowing that my car is finished throughout. I appreciate attention to detail.

You'd be better off with a B-Body wagon it sounds.

[Camino LS6]

Olds, have you driven a CTS wagon?

[Drew Dowdell]

In the dark days, namely 1986, when Cadillac's flagship coupe was reduced to a pair of featureless blocks stacked on top of one another... who in their right mind would have dreamed of this day when we can fight over a magnificent car like this?

exactly!

[smk4565]

Ain't no refresh coming.

Next-gen on a new chassis is next.

And hopefully they go after the Germans for real, instead of just talking about it. CTS should take over the price range of the STS/STS-V or go even higher.

[Drew Dowdell]

Olds, have you driven a CTS wagon?

I have, not a V-series.

[Camino LS6]

Olds, have you driven a CTS wagon?

I have, not a V-series.

Any noticeable difference in driving dynamics vs. the other bodystyles?

[Drew Dowdell]

Olds, have you driven a CTS wagon?

I have, not a V-series.

Any noticeable difference in driving dynamics vs. the other bodystyles?

would you believe I've only had coupes and wagons for this generation? I've never actually driven the sedan.

That said, you can really feel the weight in the wagon. I thought they had given me the 3.0 version, but it was the 3.6.

[Paolino]

Honestly, the carpooling in bulk thing stopped in my early/mid-twenties. On the rare two-three times/year there's carpooling involved, someone is sitting in that rear center seat making an armrest totally unusable if it exists.

1. Mid-twenties

2. We are an environmentally-aware group...i.e. we might go slightly out of our way but won't grossly inconvenience ourselves

3. We never fill the rear middle seat if we can help it because we need our rearview mirrors

4. HOV lanes on the freeways often move significantly faster when available

Well, good for you. My comment was just for out there in general, not directed towards you. You may very well find that in a few years when all your friends are married off with children, carpooling is not an option when you have two car seats in the back. HOV lanes in Long Island are a joke. I frequently move faster than them in the left lane.

[Croc]

I'm rolling my eyes at the idea that the best luxury high performance coupe on the market is being judged not on the merits of it's performance or absolutely sublime front seats, but on the quality or lack thereof of the rear seat cup holder. It is just as eye roll worthy as the Great Enclave Manu-Matic shift debate of 2007.

Please show me where I said anything about cupholders.

Also, please show me where I said I'm judging this solely on the interior? I'm glad it drives well, but we all know that's only part of the equation. Look at Volkswagen--they sell so many poorly-built cars solely because their interiors have the appearance of being really, really high-quality.

My criticisms are: 1) Cheaper interior materials (specifically certain plastics) than sedan and wagon variants, 2) lack of rear center armrest (at minimum)/full rear console (ideal) since it's only a 2+2 and 3) a rear interior that is markedly downmarket in styling, quality of materials and amenities from the sedan and wagon variants as well as what's in its own front interior.

None of those criticisms are unreasonable considering this is a luxury car, a luxury car that is an "image car" for Cadillac and is driving showroom traffic. My criticisms are NO DIFFERENT than one criticizing the XLR for not having a class-competitive interior or an interior befitting a $90,000 luxury car back in its day...

"But no one buys it for the interior!" Maybe, but at least in the case of the XLR they certainly didn't buy it because of the interior being so crude relative to its class.

Seriously, just because YOU don't care about the rear seat doesn't mean it should be exempt from my criticism--it's a feature of the car. If the interior didn't matter, it would just be a 2-seater. Similarly, just because you would never buy this car with an automatic transmission doesn't mean a deficient slushbox should be immune to criticism.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Croc

[Camino LS6]

Odd that you haven't had a sedan to drive, Drew.

I wondered about the weight of the wagon - I expect it wouldn't make too much difference in V trim.

[Croc]

I thought you wanted a CTS coupe. But maybe something fell through and now it has to be the vorst car in ze world because you can't have it.

No, I do want one...once the interior refresh actually occurs. At launch, whichever GM/Cadillac spokesperson said an updated interior was coming "in 18 months" but clearly that's been delayed. Even better would be a diesel engine. At this point, I'm going to have to wait at least until the ATS comes out, so my next car should be one of those two, likely depending on available powertrains and mpg numbers.

[Drew Dowdell]

I didn't say you couldn't criticize it. I said it was silly to say the Germans are so much better when in the same price block, they are massively overpowered by the Cadillac, the only cars that come close to it for performance are a good $30k-$40k more, and even then the winner of any competition would be decided on driver skill.

The CTS-V is a driver's car. I never felt a gross lack of luxury in the CTS-V, and I frequently ride to work in a 3-series or C-class. The C-class is thoroughly unimpressive to me for how much people go on about it. It certainly has no plastic deficit over the Cadillac.

[Camino LS6]

I think it would be interesting to drive all three bodystyles of the CTS-V back-to-back and note the differences. It is a perspective on the drivetrain that isn't often available.

[Lamar]

The good thing about the CTS-V is having 3 body styles so it appeals to a wider base of people. However, I wonder if the V wagon will be short lived if sales are too low.

I think they only make the V wagon on order. Like the E63 wagon.

I'd have to hogtie Arkus before I'd let him ride in any car I paid real money for - he's like a furry wrecking ball!

Duly noted. If Arkus is anything like my father's Amstaff, you wanna think long and hard before putting them in a $60K+ vehicle for any stretch of time.

[Camino LS6]

I'd have to hogtie Arkus before I'd let him ride in any car I paid real money for - he's like a furry wrecking ball!

Duly noted. If Arkus is anything like my father's Amstaff, you wanna think long and hard before putting them in a $60K+ vehicle for any stretch of time.

Put it this way, he runs inside the Tahoe.

[Drew Dowdell]

The V-Wagon is order only.

[Z-06]

I think it would be interesting to drive all three bodystyles of the CTS-V back-to-back and note the differences. It is a perspective on the drivetrain that isn't often available.

I have had chance to drive all three in same trim level, albeit not back to back. Dynamically I will say Coupe>Sedan>Wagon. Solid Feel wise Wagon>Coupe>Sedan - thought coupe felt more solid, partly because of its staggered tire configuration. Wagon definitely has heft but is very composed. Speed wise Sedan=Coupe>Wagon.

I am another wagon lover and I will not be car pooling in it. But the space and package it offers is far better than a bloated SUV. Then again the only true SUV with an emphasis on U for me is a Suburban, the rest are all pretenders.

[Camino LS6]

The V-Wagon is order only.

I find that sort of appealing.

[Croc]

I didn't say you couldn't criticize it. I said it was silly to say the Germans are so much better when in the same price block, they are massively overpowered by the Cadillac, the only cars that come close to it for performance are a good $30k-$40k more, and even then the winner of any competition would be decided on driver skill.

The CTS-V is a driver's car. I never felt a gross lack of luxury in the CTS-V, and I frequently ride to work in a 3-series or C-class. The C-class is thoroughly unimpressive to me for how much people go on about it. It certainly has no plastic deficit over the Cadillac.

I don't disagree with that, necessarily...but that comes down to what is the CTS coupe? Is it a luxury performance car, or a performance luxury car? Because with Mercedes puts luxury first. AUDI puts luxury first. BMW has a pretty even balance between the two. GM wants everyone to consider Cadillac in the same breath as the Germans, but yet they simply do not compete properly.

By that I mean, "the CTS competes with the 5er, but for the price of a 3er!!" Well...not really. As GM learned early on, consumers demanded a better interior that actually competed with the 5er. No one compared it to the 3er because the 3er is markedly smaller. The CTS compares with the 5er most directly...except it didn't initially with price and amenities.

And GM can make excuses all they want. They apparently didn't think the CTS coupe would sell so well? Really? After seeing the strong reaction to the concept, after poring over all the available sales data of their competitors, after establishing that yes, this is a viable market, and after the strong positive response from the unveiling of the finalized design pre-production showcar...they didn't think it would be popular?

GM needs to examine their market forecasting team then...unless it's all really just a lame excuse.

[Drew Dowdell]

I think GM already fired a good bit of them. They've had what... two VPs in that position since '08?

[Camino LS6]

I think it would be interesting to drive all three bodystyles of the CTS-V back-to-back and note the differences. It is a perspective on the drivetrain that isn't often available.

I have had chance to drive all three in same trim level, albeit not back to back. Dynamically I will say Coupe>Sedan>Wagon. Solid Feel wise Wagon>Coupe>Sedan - thought coupe felt more solid, partly because of its staggered tire configuration. Wagon definitely has heft but is very composed. Speed wise Sedan=Coupe>Wagon.

I am another wagon lover and I will not be car pooling in it. But the space and package it offers is far better than a bloated SUV. Then again the only true SUV with an emphasis on U for me is a Suburban, the rest are all pretenders.

Those results are about what I expected, though an "all-V" comparo might be revealing.

Agreed on the SUV front.

[Lamar]

I'd have to hogtie Arkus before I'd let him ride in any car I paid real money for - he's like a furry wrecking ball!

Duly noted. If Arkus is anything like my father's Amstaff, you wanna think long and hard before putting them in a $60K+ vehicle for any stretch of time.

Put it this way, he runs inside the Tahoe.

My father's dog? She'd be taste-testing the upholstery.

[ocnblu]

I still wanna know how come they dangle green and then take it away.

[G. David Felt]

There is no wood in ANY CTS-V unless you go with the Black Diamond edition. It's piano black all around and the trim between the rear seats matches it.

That is an issue Cadillac, M-B, and BMW (to a lesser degree) all have to some degree w/ the performance models--they should offer their most luxurious interiors w/ rather that the dour, dark, depressing 'sporty' interiors they often put in the performance models...

I'd like a CTS-v with the regular CTS light tan w/ wood and aluminum trim interior, not a gloomy black or despair gray interior. At least the trim is piano black and not disgusting faux carbon fiber, though I'd rather have wood & aluminum.

I have to TOTALLY disagree with you. In performance, I want what the CTS-V has. Piano black. The M3 is this way as my boss has a new black one. The sales mgr here has a Mercades AMG and again no wood in that also.

Performance models all have the black, composite, racing interior type look and those for the most part want this type of interior.

I think you need to just buy the CTS you like and the V engine in Crate form and build it yourself.

[Robert Hall]

There is no wood in ANY CTS-V unless you go with the Black Diamond edition. It's piano black all around and the trim between the rear seats matches it.

That is an issue Cadillac, M-B, and BMW (to a lesser degree) all have to some degree w/ the performance models--they should offer their most luxurious interiors w/ rather that the dour, dark, depressing 'sporty' interiors they often put in the performance models...

I'd like a CTS-v with the regular CTS light tan w/ wood and aluminum trim interior, not a gloomy black or despair gray interior. At least the trim is piano black and not disgusting faux carbon fiber, though I'd rather have wood & aluminum.

I have to TOTALLY disagree with you. In performance, I want what the CTS-V has. Piano black. The M3 is this way as my boss has a new black one. The sales mgr here has a Mercades AMG and again no wood in that also.

Performance models all have the black, composite, racing interior type look and those for the most part want this type of interior.

I think you need to just buy the CTS you like and the V engine in Crate form and build it yourself.

My point is the buyer should have the choice. That is true luxury. The luxury of choice. I don't mind black interiors when used a two-tone. I generally despise gray. Nothing looks cheaper and more unappealing to me than all black or all gray inside..

Edited August 24, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[G. David Felt]

There is no wood in ANY CTS-V unless you go with the Black Diamond edition. It's piano black all around and the trim between the rear seats matches it.

That is an issue Cadillac, M-B, and BMW (to a lesser degree) all have to some degree w/ the performance models--they should offer their most luxurious interiors w/ rather that the dour, dark, depressing 'sporty' interiors they often put in the performance models...

I'd like a CTS-v with the regular CTS light tan w/ wood and aluminum trim interior, not a gloomy black or despair gray interior. At least the trim is piano black and not disgusting faux carbon fiber, though I'd rather have wood & aluminum.

I have to TOTALLY disagree with you. In performance, I want what the CTS-V has. Piano black. The M3 is this way as my boss has a new black one. The sales mgr here has a Mercades AMG and again no wood in that also.

Performance models all have the black, composite, racing interior type look and those for the most part want this type of interior.

I think you need to just buy the CTS you like and the V engine in Crate form and build it yourself.

My point is the buyer should have the choice. That is true luxury. The luxury of choice. I don't mind black interiors when used a two-tone. I generally despise gray. Nothing looks cheaper and more unappealing to me than all black or all gray inside..

I can respect the wish for a choice.

Personally I submitted a year ago for a Black Ice Edition and it seemed to become reality but they still cut short. My Idea was for the CTS-V to have the Black Metalic paint job with a depth due to multiple clear coats of paint. Then have the Rim's, Grill, air intake and all interior trim in Black Chrome on top of the Piano Black or composite Fiber.

[Croc]

You know, "carbon fiber" and shiny black plastic is fine for DRIVING EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, but in the luxury class there should be more--real metal trim, or some sporty wood--like that grey wood Cadillac used? That was nice.

[Robert Hall]

You know, "carbon fiber" and shiny black plastic is fine for DRIVING EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, but in the luxury class there should be more--real metal trim, or some sporty wood--like that grey wood Cadillac used? That was nice.

I like wood and metal trim... black plastic just looks cheap to me (I don't like the dash of a car to look like my home theater equipment).. for carbon fiber--I like to see the real stuff on race cars, but on a street car the sight of it gives me dry heaves.

[MRDETROITMETAL]

MOST ROCK'IN MFUKER ON THE PLANET !!!!!! :smilies-38096:

[SAmadei]

A tragic trend I'm seeing... CTS-V coupes owned by 94 year olds. I've seen about 4-5 of them lately, driven by some pretty old folks, but the funniest guy was doddering along doing 23 in a 35 zone when I blew him away with an overloaded full size van. Hope it was a loaner, but he had WW2 vet vanity plates, so I doubt it.

[Robert Hall]

A tragic trend I'm seeing... CTS-V coupes owned by 94 year olds. I've seen about 4-5 of them lately, driven by some pretty old folks, but the funniest guy was doddering along doing 23 in a 35 zone when I blew him away with an overloaded full size van. Hope it was a loaner, but he had WW2 vet vanity plates, so I doubt it.

Well, it's like with Corvettes...it's the older guys that can afford to buy expensive toys. Better to see them driving one than some subliterate rapper felon or Justin Beiber.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[smk4565]

A tragic trend I'm seeing... CTS-V coupes owned by 94 year olds. I've seen about 4-5 of them lately, driven by some pretty old folks, but the funniest guy was doddering along doing 23 in a 35 zone when I blew him away with an overloaded full size van. Hope it was a loaner, but he had WW2 vet vanity plates, so I doubt it.

Well, it's like with Corvettes...it's the older guys that can afford to buy expensive toys. Better to see them driving one than some subliterate rapper felon or Justin Beiber.

Beiber has a Ferrari. It was just in the news that he had a minor accident in it.

But the trend of old guys buying a CTS-V doesn't surprise me. The guys that grew up with 60s era muscle cars and have money for toys like Corvettes and Cadillacs. The under 45 crowd with money for toys would most likely prefer an import. Which is hopefully something Cadillac can change.

Edited September 1, 2011 by smk4565

[Potluck]

young guys aren't buying new M5s either.

[yougojay]

$63, 215.00 - what a joke. I can only imagine how this

vehicle will ride & sound like after 50,000 miles on it.

No thanks. Very sharp looking Coupe, tho -

GM needs to build more Coupes like back in the old days...

[Drew Dowdell]

My '04 CTS was fine after 48k....