This Monday ...

[Blake Noble]

Two Jeep Cherokees, one a '98 and the other a '94. Both supposedly run. Both supposedly have good titles. Both have an asking price of $850.

I'm curious about the '98, that's what I'm hoping may be a diamond in the rough. I don't know what I would do with an extra Jeep sitting around, but whatever. I think I can deal with it.

We'll see. I have the weekend to wait.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Any updates?

[Blake Noble]

Buying the '98 Cherokee tomorrow (it's a Sport model). I decided to pass on the '88 (it wasn't a '94 like I thought; then again I hadn't even talked to the owner when I first made this thread). It was another good running Cherokee, and not parts material. It needs to be driven. It would've went to waste considering what sort of condition the '98 is in and there isn't a whole lot of interchangeable parts on the two Cherokees anyway despite what you might initially think.

The '98 is going to set me back $450 bucks. It isn't exactly cherry, but it's not the nightmare I was expecting. It does run and quite well I might add. It only has 158,000 miles and still blows cold air. The four-wheel drive works great. Again, not the nightmare I was expecting.

As for what is wrong with it, the driver's side fender has a dent in it below the door and near the front bumper and the fender flare has been removed. That's nothing major as all that holds the flare on is one small metric bolt on the bottom side of the fender. The dents are pretty noticeable, but the paint wasn't damaged and they can be removed. The front fascia panel of course is made of fiberglass and something landed on it and cracked it pretty bad in one spot. Again, nothing that can't be fixed easily. I can track that part down within a week. It doesn't have a battery, so I'll have to borrow one (but I'll also add that the current owner had a battery to put in it to start it and it cranked right over and started the first time after not being started in almost 4 months).

The gauge cluster likes to take naps due to a bad module connection and the safety neutral switch acts a little funny. The interior is absolutely filthy as well. The tires will last through this winter and then will be good for little more than tire swings.

Cherokees were also bad for having rusty radiators and this particular Jeep is no exception. Before the current owner bought it, the radiator rusted so bad it was leaking and the owner before him decided to be a cheap ass and put some stop leak in it. Needless to say, that didn't work, so the radiator was replaced sometime shortly before it went up for sale and he bought it. The current owner did flush the cooling system completely, so while there is a bunch of rusty dust on the header panel that was blown out during the flush and fills, it isn't from some catastrophic engine failure. The engine oil is fine, not really all that dirty. It wasn't milky. The engine didn't miss or anything. Basically, what went on with the radiator and the stop leak is a non issue from where I'm sitting at the moment, but it is worth noting.

Basically, this Jeep just needs basic TLC and it will go for another 100,000 miles. It seems to be a project I can definitely work with (not another MC SS fiasco). I would be insane not to buy it.

[daves87rs]

Pics!

[Blake Noble]

So how much Jeep did $450 bucks buy? Hopefully these terrible night photos will answer that question sort of. Yes, better photos are to come and if you take the time to do the math, I paid $10.88 a pound for the entire truck, that runs and drives I might add. I think I might've just set a record of some sort here. If this isn't the definition of "Cheap Jeep" I don't know what is.

Here's my task list for "Project Pioneer":

• Dump the pitiful contents of the coolant overflow bottle.
  
• Flush and fill the cooling system.
  
• Change the oil.
  
• Strip and clean every last surface of the interior.
  
• Remove the pathetic and ancient Pioneer CD player and replace it with the Kenwood HD radio reciever I saved from the Camaro.
  
• Clean the connections from the gauge cluster module (common problem for these Cherokees).
  
• Fix and/or replace the driver's side fender and reinstall the fender flare.
  
• Replace the front fascia.
  
• Wash and wax every last inch of the exterior.
  

Not a hefty list really.

[ocnblu]

Oh, a black Jeep.

[z28luvr01]

Nice find! Any Jeep with the 4.0L I6 will last forever with basic PM. Even if getting it cosmetically perfect doesn't work out, it's the ideal vehicle to keep the Challenger safe in the winter.

Lots of luck with it.

[Blake Noble]

Thanks, Z and blu.

I think that, while I'm working on returning the Jeep back to snuff, I'll make a few upgrades along the way. I'd love to have some leather seats and some chrome power window and door lock switches for the interior for starters.

[the_yellow_dart]

If it was $450 and you paid $10.88 a pound, that Jeep's less than 50 pounds.

Edited August 10, 2011 by the_yellow_dart

[z28luvr01]

LOL good point.

BK - you might want to look underneath for a Power Wheels logo.

[Blake Noble]

Sorry, I was a little too excited when I pulled out the ol' TX and went to work.

About $200 a ton sounds right.

[Blake Noble]

Started tearing into the task sheet tonight. The overflow bottle has been removed, rinsed, and reinstalled. There's still a nice residue of rusty antifreeze on the bottom of the bottle. I may have to replace that; don't know just yet.

I'm also going to be yard hoppin' for a new hood release cable assembly. Another issue with the Cherokee: those things like to snap at the pull handle end and mine decided it was time to do that tonight. A service tag from a shop in Barbourville revealed that it was on it's second release cable. Simple and easy enough to replace, though.

I've also started on the fascia swap. The driver's side headlamp, trim bezel, and inner bucket are removed along with the bolts that hold the fascia assembly on. Going to find that trinket Monday along with a new front fender and fender flare (the tabs on the flare are actually broken as it turns out).

That awful Pioneer stereo is gone. I still have to wire up the harness for the Kenwood (it already had harness adaptors from the Pioneer install! sch-weet!).

[z28luvr01]

Nice! Glad to hear that things are going pretty smoothly so far. Have you been able to locate a black donor Cherokee?

I wonder if seats from a Liberty or Nitro would bolt in

[Camino LS6]

I like this project - nice going!

[Blake Noble]

Thanks y'all.

I'll be digging into a little bit more interior tear down stuff tonight. Gotta pick up a battery, a thermostat (since it doesn't have one currently for whatever reason) and all of the necessary fluids coming home from work.

I really love working on this Jeep. So far, everything is simple to service, simple to disassemble and reassemble, and simple to figure out.

Good question, Z. The Cherokee has a two-tone carmel and charcoal interior and it would be awesome if I could find a set of two tone seats to match it.

[Blake Noble]

Located a donor Cherokee at the yard just down the road from me, and it's a black one too. A new fender is only $40. Why pop the dents?

[Camino LS6]

Score!

[Blake Noble]

That defined "luck".

Didn't get to do too much tonight. Bought a new t-stat and wired up the Kenwood harness. Tomorrow I unbolt the seats and get down to cleaning out the warzone that is the interior and tackle the t-stat installation. I'll have some pics up if possible.

[SAmadei]

Located a donor Cherokee at the yard just down the road from me, and it's a black one too. A new fender is only $40. Why pop the dents?

Practice.

Seriously, because the original fenders should have better matching paint.

It all depends on how awful the dents are.

[Blake Noble]

Well, I replaced the thermostat today. Didn't get much further than that. After adding coolant to the cooling system and letting the Jeep run for a five minutes, coolant boiled out of the radiator (nothing wound up in the overflow bottle) and it poured white smoke out of the exhaust. The engine oil finally started to dilute and loose viscosity.

I can't exactly figure out what may potentially be stopping the water flow, but it seems like a head gasket may be blown somewhere on the outer part of the gasket. It couldn't be a cracked/warped head because the engine still runs too smooth.

Parts Jeep turned out to be a fluke, too. The yard looked up a Grand Cherokee, not a Cherokee.

[Turbojett]

had an ex that had a Cherokee just like that, except hers was a two-door.

odd. there's always black cars in my driveway, even if they aren't mine.

[Blake Noble]

Well, I did a title-only transfer on the Cherokee today. That set me back $83 bucks, but I can happy say I again own at least one car that is 100 percent mine.

As for the engine, it indeed is a bad head gasket. The part is only $20 bucks, but I don't know if I want to do the labor myself or whore it out to a mechanic.

That said, I'm budgeting myself a limit of about $1,500 to spend on restoring the Jeep, and that includes the price of the vehicle. My reasoning? KBB trade-in value on my Jeep as it sits is $1,850 since it is in only fair condition.

Of course, the more work I do to it returning it to a good to excellent trade-in condition, the more the trade-in value will raise. So far, I'm in this thing for about $650 bucks. I think I can bring this Cherokee up to good condition and still make my budget happen. If I ever have to cash in on this Jeep, I plan on cashing in big.

I'm still cleaning up the warzone that is the interior. I probably should have snapped a few pictures before I started diving into it because it was absolutely pathetic. Prestone Interior Cleaner and my trusty Shop Vac is doing all of the work a Bissel deep cleaner would normally do and the blue stains (yep, someone's ass sweated just enough to make the dye of their blue jeans bleed into the fabric of my seats) are coming out. The carpet looked like it may possibly be to the point of no return, but again, it's coming clean.

Again, I should've had my camera when I dug out a big white ball of what-the-f@#k that had been hiding under my front passenger seat.

I'm a smoker, but I don't think I've managed to trash any car I've smoked in (no worries, I don't smoke in the Challenger) as bad as whoever drove this Cherokee daily simply by puffing on a pack of Camels. If someone could lend any insight as to how you get more cigarette ashes under the f@#king ashtray as opposed to in the ashtray itself, I'd like to hear that.

[z28luvr01]

Well, one thing in favor of doing the head gasket yourself is that it is a Jeep, designed to be repaired and back in service as quickly as possible. I would imagine a longitudinally mounted inline engine is one of the easier configurations to deal with. Pick up a Haynes manual for it at your local AutoZone and see if you can find out how much of a PITA the job would be.

Couple of pointers:

1. When you get the head off, check it for warpage (or have it checked) anyway. I'm assuming it's an iron head so it's probably OK, but since you'll have it off, you might as well rather than put the whole thing back together only to find out it was warped after all.

2. Make sure you clean ALL of the old gasket/residue off the mating surfaces of the block and head

3. Torque wrench, torque wrench torque wrench. Find the proper torque rating and tightenng sequence for the head (should be in the Haynes manual), and do not deviate.

[Sixty8panther]

Nice find! Any Jeep with the 4.0L I6 will last forever with basic PM.

Agreed

...it's the ideal vehicle to keep the Challenger safe in the winter.

Wow, I just noticed that in your Sig. Congrats on the Challenger purchase!

[Blake Noble]

Thanks, Sixty-Eight.

Well, I'll be getting the engine back to full health again as well as buying up what I need to fix the exterior. Since a new head is fairly inexpensive, I might just put a new one on it as well as change out most of the gaskets on the top end of the motor ... dunno yet.

I need to post a few more recent pics. I've really made quite a bit of progress on the old Heep.

The interior is mostly clean now and back together. You can sit down in the seats now and not feel like you need a bath after getting out of them. The carpet turned out to be mostly salvageable, although I should really unbolt the driver's side seat and clean up the mess between it and the center console soon. The guages just needed a little contact cleaner on the module connections to function correctly again ... although I wish I could say the same about my power window lock that's shorted out. I'll have to take the entire power window/lock/mirror module out and dismantle it to fix some broken solder if I want someone in the back seat to roll their own windows up.

Heads up Dodgefan: If I remember correctly, you have the same power window lock switch my Cherokee does and when it fails, forget about rolling up the windows from any of the passenger switches. My dad's Dakota has the same issue and guess what? It's the same damn window lock switch. Keep an eye on it and keep it clean as much as you can.

I've started on the exterior. I gave it a good pressure washing tonight, which also blasted off my Cherokee decals in the process. Just as well I guess. I was going to remove the Sport decal from the good fender anyway and the new one when I buy it this week. Cherokees look far more timeless without all of the tacked-on polyps and do-dads. I also popped the door molding off since it was coming off at the corners. Now it's just a massive process of cleaning off some adhesive, double sided tape, and whatever the hell is coating the roof.

[Blake Noble]

Update: the new fender and header panel/grille have been purchased. Sadly, as I started to remove and restore the metal frame that holds the flare onto the fender, the bolts broke in half because they had rusted so badly. This set back my progress for the evening badly.

I'm almost confident in the original head now. I went to Auto Zone and bought a good Duralast battery that had enough CCA and then some to start the Jeep. I also replaced the badly corroded battery terminals. First crank, the Jeep started without hesitation. It also didn't smoke at first. I put some water in the radiator and gave it another quick test drive up and down my street and it wasn't until the engine was at operating temprature it started to smoke a little bit. The head gasket needs to be changed regardless. The valve pan gasket also needs to be replaced as it leaks like a sieve the further you get to the firewall.

I also tracked down better sun visors and a better headliner. The headliner is cut for an overhead console which I also found in another Cherokee at the same yard. After the Heep is back together, clean and running, and I've swapped an uplevel set of OEM alloys on it, these pieces will form the basis of my next project for it: getting rid of that awful rat fur headliner in favor of one with nice, woven fabric like you'd find in most new cars. The overhead console will also make a nice place to mount a CB radio.

[Blake Noble]

Some pics of the Heep. I'm almost there.

Before:

Currently:

The new fender isn't exactly perfect, but it's in much better shape than the old one. Considering what I've got in it, though, I can't expect perfection but I figure it's a better starting point than what the Jeep came with. Blu, about how bad would it be to fix this dent?

I also managed to get one of the flare appliques in a reuseable condition, thankfully.

I'm still shopping around for someone to whore the head gasket work out to. So far, the best price I've been quoted is $460 bucks. There's also an oil leak around the drain plug bolt I'll have to investigate afterward, but it's nothing I'm worried about right now.

[Drew Dowdell]

I would worry a lot less about the cosmetic and concentrate on the mechanical for now. Changing the head gasket out on one of these is probably the easiest head gasket job on any car build in the last 15 years.

[A Horse With No Name]

Nice find! Any Jeep with the 4.0L I6 will last forever with basic PM. Even if getting it cosmetically perfect doesn't work out, it's the ideal vehicle to keep the Challenger safe in the winter.

Lots of luck with it.

Bingo!

Good luck with it, dude!

[z28luvr01]

Nice job so far. I like it better without the faded moldings.

You can probably hammer-and-dolly most of that dent out, but it's pretty complex and I don't think you'll get it all out yourself. Your best bet is to take it to a guy who does paintless dent repair (PDR) and ask him to look at it. The price may floor you a bit, but consider the cost of having the dent filled and the fender resprayed with factory-spec paint.

I'm with Drew though - take that money and put it towards the head gasket. That drain plug leak hopefully is just a bad/loose plug, but it could very well be a bad seal in the hole in the pan.

[Blake Noble]

I have a guy in mind as far as straightening that dent out of the fender goes. I'm not expecting it to be that bad of a price, maybe less than a few hundred bucks at the worst. I was mostly curious as to what extent the damage might currently be, but it doesn't seem so bad.

The paint is another thing that is concerning me. The Jeep was so damn filthy, a layer of dirt was basically caked on the entire vehicle and washing it has speckled the paint. Hopefully, some intensive paint care will fix it (scratch remover, Meguier's Black Box for black paint, rubbing compound, good wax, and a buffing wheel) but color me skeptical.

The engine is certainly next, though. The header panel and fender were now or never purchases (especially the header panel) because of how difficult they were to locate and because they were at the right price as well.

I'm just going to whore the labor out for the head gasket work. I've done too well so far to screw this one up.

The oil pan gasket and new plug, I'll do that myself.

[Robert Hall]

I wouldn't waste time or money on the dent or the paint or any other cosmetic details. It's the mechanical aspects that count if you want to use it as a reliable driver. (that's how I am w/ my Jeep--only spend money on functional issues---at 11 years/130k miles it's past the point of caring about as far as the cosmetics).

Edited September 1, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Blake Noble]

The cost of fixing what is wrong with the Jeep cosmetically is so relatively small now I figure I might as well finish what I've started after I have the engine sorted out.

Additionally, it only serves to make the Jeep worth that much more than what I have invested in it. In fact, that's true of every repair.

[z28luvr01]

Get yourself some Beyond Clay.

Wash the truck good, them go to town with this stuff and a buffer wheel. The Jeep will look showroom new. Then wax with a good wax.

[Blake Noble]

Diagnosis: head is cracked, engine is full of rusty metallic sludge.

Selling for scrap.

[Turbojett]

gah. bummer.

[A Horse With No Name]

Diagnosis: head is cracked, engine is full of rusty metallic sludge.

Selling for scrap.

Actually, those motors should be cheap used.

[z28luvr01]

Diagnosis: head is cracked, engine is full of rusty metallic sludge.

Selling for scrap.

Actually, those motors should be cheap used.

Yeah, just saw a used long block on ebay for about 1000 shipped. This should probably be the easiest engine swaps out there.

New heads are in the 200-300 range.

[Camino LS6]

Hmm...

[ocnblu]

Jacket, I'm sorry I missed your question about the fender, but it seems you've got bigger worries now with the 4.0.

Let us know if you're going to swap in another 4.0.

BTW, I think a PDR guy could make that fender look a lot better (not perfect, mind you) for less than $150, which is cheaper than conventional body repair and painting would be.

[Justin Bimmer]

Motor

[RjION]

Time to take it out and see what breaks, or see if you have brakes.

Edited September 15, 2011 by RjION

[Blake Noble]

Well, I've already tried to pursue the avenues mentioned. Here's what I've found:

I can't find a used head for this Jeep to save my life. I've called every junkyard I've frequented ever in a 50 mile radius of my home only to come up empty handed.

So buy a new one right? A new head from Chrysler LLC sets you back about $575 bucks after a $150 dollar core charge. Gaskets are a must as well, so there's $80 bucks on top of that. Labor is $460 to install everything back. Looks like I've defeated the M.O. of this Jeep already.

If I did put a new head on the existing block after flushing it out, there still may be other problems that can spur from the fact this Jeep was driven hard and hot for a period of time after the head cracked. Bent rods, bad bearings ... the list goes on.

The block doesn't inspire confidence, that being said. I should try and get a photo of what's lurking in the bottom of that engine, by the way. It's horrifying. I don't honestly think you could flush every bit of that $h!ty gunk out if you parked down hill and dumped every last gallon of Lake Erie through that block.

Diving further into the issue I first mentioned, you only want to buy a used head that was manufactured from 1997 to early 1999. Heads for the 4.0L after that pretty much all had casting issues that would -- YEP! -- cause them to crack. I did find a head on a 2001 Cherokee, but this issue (and not to mention a few small interchangeability issues) prevents it from really working ... so never mind.

So don't buy a head then, right? Go for a new engine? Well, it's not that simple if you want to find a good engine for one of these Jeeps in this state. Trust me, and if you don't believe me, go to car-part.com. That's what every damn yard I've been to uses to locate their own parts as well as others.

Engines from those specific time frames, from a Cherokee anyway, have turned out to be impossible to find. It also doesn't help that almost every junkyard I contacted thought I had a f@#king Grand Cherokee or would try to tell me, "Well, the 4.0L from a Grand Cherokee sort of works ..." Uh, yeah. "Sort of" doesn't cut it for me. I know the blocks are the same (well, not really because the oil filter requires an adapter to make that swap work), but everything else isn't when you boil it down. Needless to say, swapping in a 4.0L from a Wrangler has it's own issues as well. Back to square one then since Chrysler had to f@#k up everything AMC had gotten pretty much right the first time.

[Robert Hall]

Interesting..would have thought the 4.0 from the Grand Cherokee would be the same as that of the XJ of the same era.

[SAmadei]

Diving further into the issue I first mentioned, you only want to buy a used head that was manufactured from 1997 to early 1999. Heads for the 4.0L after that pretty much all had casting issues that would -- YEP! -- cause them to crack. I did find a head on a 2001 Cherokee, but this issue (and not to mention a few small interchangeability issues) prevents it from really working ... so never mind.

Just because '97-'99 was a troublesome design does not mean that every head will eventually crack... usually that becomes a problem after the particular engine has been driven hard or overheated... even slightly.

If you find a cheap junkyard engine with somewhat low miles and no milkshake for oil, I would go for it. Assuming you don't beat it to death, it'll unlikely to suddenly crack after 12 years of staying intact.

So don't buy a head then, right? Go for a new engine? Well, it's not that simple if you want to find a good engine for one of these Jeeps in this state. Trust me, and if you don't believe me, go to car-part.com. That's what every damn yard I've been to uses to locate their own parts as well as others.

Yeah, its frustrating. I just went through it locating the tranny for the Bonne. Especially frustrating when you figure that it seems like half the GM stock in any J-yard has a 4T65e.

Engines from those specific time frames, from a Cherokee anyway, have turned out to be impossible to find. It also doesn't help that almost every junkyard I contacted thought I had a f@#king Grand Cherokee or would try to tell me, "Well, the 4.0L from a Grand Cherokee sort of works ..." Uh, yeah. "Sort of" doesn't cut it for me. I know the blocks are the same (well, not really because the oil filter requires an adapter to make that swap work), but everything else isn't when you boil it down. Needless to say, swapping in a 4.0L from a Wrangler has it's own issues as well. Back to square one then since Chrysler had to f@#k up everything AMC had gotten pretty much right the first time.

Well, unlike a transmission, which is a more finicky match due to its internal programming, an engine is a fairly dumb device. The only "programming" is the camshaft... everything else is sensors... assuming the sensors all swap, and the cam is not radically different, I would say a newer 4.0 would be a fine swap.

The junkyards are not going to tell you its a match unless Hollander's list it as a match. Otherwise, they are opening themselves up for problems if for some reason it doesn't work. Do your research on the Jeep forums... they will be able to detail a newer 4.0 swap with the least hassle.

As for used versus new... used all the way.

Personally, I would swap the head, clean the sludge out of the lower half... change the oil frequently the first couple months. Drive it and worry about a new engine if it eats a bearing. I did head gaskets on two cars for friends that were similar quick fixes and they had driven with coolant in the crankcase for an uncomfortable time and both cars ran fine, engine-wise, for years. My friends eventually killed them in other ways.

[Intrepidation]

If you plan to get scrap it let me know, I know a guy who is interested in it.

[Blake Noble]

Sold it to someone who had the money to give it the TLC it deserved. That's fine. I'm really having a terrible time financially right now as I'm not making jack $h! for pay at work anyway (cut-throat co-workers screwing me out of deals, confusing management, $h!ty economy, too many hours to work against to make commission and payroll recently screwed me out of 14 hours of f@#king overtime to add insult to injury). I'll probably be out of work for awhile again soon.

The Challenger will be the next to be sold. After paying for it each month plus my student loans and my expenses to work, I'm lucky to have $15 bucks to my name at the end of the month.

I have never been so damn sick of selling my belongings in my life.

[A Horse With No Name]

Sorry to hear of things going so badly for you...

And also sorry to see the loss of the Challenger out of the C and G fleet!

[67impss]

Sorry to hear this Black-Knight, it's gotta get better for us all I still believe in this country and it's Great people.Hang in there I'm in the boat with ya. They're opening a new CAT warehouse here and I'm still in the running for a warehouse associate wish me luck, It's hard starting over for the 3rd time @ 51yo a very awkward time in your career.

[A Horse With No Name]

Sorry to hear this Black-Knight, it's gotta get better for us all I still believe in this country and it's Great people.Hang in there I'm in the boat with ya. They're opening a new CAT warehouse here and I'm still in the running for a warehouse associate wish me luck, It's hard starting over for the 3rd time @ 51yo a very awkward time in your career.

A lot of guys in that boat...a whole lot.

Good luck on the job 67!