Huge cars

[Satty]

I got a chance to ride around in a Lucerne the other day, and that thing is unreasonably big. I mean seriously, three fat Minnesotans could have hot sweaty sex in back and the driver would never know. Its insane. I'm pretty sure that my son would get lost in the back seat. I'll stick to reasonably sized cars.

[balthazar]

'reasonable' is as 'reasonable' does.

I've been inside a Lucerne- IMO it's more the overstuffed-ness of it, but many cars "suffer" from this currently. Also has somewhat strange seating positioning, IMO.

OTOH, I've been inside a mini; it's a tight-assed compartment. Did not care for it.

I don't tend to get caught up in the nonsensical 'interior space vs. exterior space' rope-a-dope. Give me a clean, roomy interior where my legs aren't constrained by a tumescent purposeless console and my arms by giant armrests for a person (driver) who's supposed to be gripping the wheel, and I'm happy. Where this is in a modern car, I'm not sure- I guess nowhere.

My Silverado is pretty good tho I have 1 or 2 minor complaints, but then again I work out of my truck, so it carries more than me, a latte and an iPod.

Was just daydreaming this very morning; would love to find a clean '64 Pontiac Safari wagon, have all the mechanicals refurbished and an OD trans and work out of that. Should be able to pull down around 17-18 MPG (mine with the RHM375 did 14)- I could live with that. That's a excellent era for interior space- what it may lack in height it makes up for in width.

[Intrepidation]

A problem I've noticed in both the Caliber and newer Corolla we had for rentals was room. The Corolla had way less legroom than the older ones (despite being bigger), and the Caliber's door panel and center console where the shifter is located is intrusive Being that both areas are hard plastic it can get uncomfortable.

In the the Prizm, room isn't really an issue. Plenty f legroom for me, nothing's intrusive, and I love being able to zip into tight parking spots. With that said, the Intrepid more comfortable. Nice soft arm rests and upper door panels, supportive and comfortable seats, and plenty of room for me and 3 adults. The best part is that it handles very well and feels smaller than it is while driving while returning 30 mpg on the highway. I love going to Keene in NH about 40 minutes away because its a long twisty back road that's a joy to drive on. Can't wait to tackle it with new suspension!

There is a fun novelty about driving an older car with a floaty ride and a bench seat with less support than a sofa, but I find it gets uncomfortable on longer trips and is no fun when the road gets twisty.

[pow]

I got a chance to ride around in a Lucerne the other day, and that thing is unreasonably big. I mean seriously, three fat Minnesotans could have hot sweaty sex in back and the driver would never know. Its insane. I'm pretty sure that my son would get lost in the back seat. I'll stick to reasonably sized cars.

I use to think that way untill I started borrowing the Honduh Odyssey which is just gigantic! Its cool shoving smaller vehicles of the road ,especially communists in their bicycles HAHA! while sipping a Big Gulp from anyone of it's 13 cup holders AND enjoying a BACON cheese burger on the go thanks to the center tray between the front seats, yea! Not being PC here but its the truth LOL!

[ocnblu]

We have a Mercury Mountaineer in the shop right now and have gotten 2 new replacement doors in a row that have been damaged in shipping, rendering the job late. Customer was upset but to that point hadn't taken a rental car from the responsible insurance company. So I made arrangements for Enterprise to pick them up so they could use a car for a weekend trip they say they had planned. I thought all was good until I got a call from the customer half an hour later... the insurance company has an upper dollar limit per day they'll pay toward a car and an SUV was another $20 more. Customer refused to pay the difference (understandable), but decided NOT TO TAKE THE FREE RENTAL, saying he didn't like small cars. I tried to assure him a Caliber or Versa has chair-height seats, that it's only for a few days, and that IT'S FREE, but he would not budge.

With the effort to keep passengers in position for optimum crash survivability, and to bolster a car's structure to the same end, we have made vehicles claustrophobic inside.

A big old cruiser with a slidy, vinyl bench seat and lap belts sounds like a truly refreshing change as a weekend toy, at least to me.

[Camino LS6]

I love my wagon because it doesn't feel big even though it is. For a car of its size, it is extremely nimble.

That bodes well for the Camino which will be getting some suspension upgrades that the wagon didn't.

I think Balthy has hit upon the source of comfort in a car: width. A narrow car is much more likley to feel cramped, no matter how large it may be in other dimensions.

My mother's Jeep GC feels very cramped to me, and the fact that it is narrow seems to be the main cause.

[Satty]

It would be fine if I needed to host a circus. But I don't. And because of the 14th amendment Buick can't sell a spotter along with it to ensure I don't accidentally back into an aircraft carrier or invade Poland with it.

[ocnblu]

Not much of a sailor, eh? Well, stay on the dock where you'll be safe.

[Camino LS6]

You earn a point for that one, Ocn.

[riviera74]

I got a chance to ride around in a Lucerne the other day, and that thing is unreasonably big. I mean seriously, three fat Minnesotans could have hot sweaty sex in back and the driver would never know. Its insane. I'm pretty sure that my son would get lost in the back seat. I'll stick to reasonably sized cars.

You think that's bad. Hop into a 1977 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham or a same model year Buick Park Avenue! The Lucerne is almost sane by mid-1970s standards.

[Cory Wolfe]

My Legacy is a bit on the large side by my standards.

[balthazar]

Not sure I'm very reassured on the road by the flummoxing of controlling a mere 203" car.

That's some marginal, strangely-dimensionally-corrolated skill set there.

I loved driving my '64 daily. Suspension, tire & alignment upgrades had it handling extremely well- better than a Lucerne, that's for sure. And @ 213", it was a pleasure to toss around. No wallow, no sliding across the seat. What was relatively the best was no stupid console and an interior width of about 66" (or about 3-4" more than an S-class; they can't report hip room anymore). I miss it.

[Camino LS6]

Never did understand how people are uncomfortable with driving a big car - every one I've ever driven was an easy, relaxed drive.

[Intrepidation]

This is probably the only site where I find people having issues with center consoles. I much prefer a center console with buckets to a bench, but to each their own.

[Camino LS6]

I'm really ok with either.

Depends on the vehicle.

[Intrepidation]

I like bench seats on a big old car, it just seems to fit that relaxed feel. But with modern cars I prefer a center console and buckets. i like the look better.

[balthazar]

I agree with the sentiment that a console is fine & even preferred in some types of vehicles... but not ALL.

They have this misplaced 'sports car' perception, but an altima is not a sports car.

The bottom line is that they hold the (99% of the time) automatic shifter, and a bin & cup holder.... all things that can be answered elsewhere, yet they take up 4-5 cubic feet of interior space; space modern family sedans really can't afford to give away.

What's of note to me is- so many SUV conversations center on whether a 7-seat version will be available, yet cars, supposedly desirable over SUVs, have all been cut from 6 to a tight squeeze for 5 (some are best suited to seat 4). Maybe if a quantity/choice of cars sat 6, less & less people would be gravitating into SUVs.

Ironically perhaps, the last time I was in a Lucerne (last summer), we had 6 adults in it.

[SAmadei]

Never did understand how people are uncomfortable with driving a big car - every one I've ever driven was an easy, relaxed drive.

Simple. They are lame.

Sorry, but I'm glad that the widdle-bitty people who are scared of driving the big vehicles stay in small cars. Its safer than the alternative. I love watching these folks take 5 minutes to back out of a parking space when they have 25 foot of nothing behind them.

I have always promoted that if you can't park it or drive it, you shouldn't have bought it.

I love out-parallel parking NYers who can't fit their short CUV in a spot... and then I would drop the Caprice stawag into the hole.

When between real work gigs, I tend to do delivery gigs. I drive the longest full size vans out there... giant turning radius. Typically, I end up in beach towns... where I have to back into a spot barely bigger than the van, while people are milling about the parking lot willy-nilly. I have to make U-turns in tiny alley-ways and poorly designed parking lots. Many times, at night... with drunk pedestrians all over. And you have to do this stuff reasonably quickly... traffic is coming and going when you are sitting sideways in the alleyway...

I recently have finally topped out the highest GVWR truck I can drive... 25999 lbs. I've driven the same size truck before, but in a lighter configuration. First drive out, I had to take it on the worse causeway in NJ... where the truck fits in the lane by about 4 inches. Had to back in into 3 different bays and nailed every approach and put the truck within 3 inches of my goal. I even impressed myself. LOL.

Am I special? Not at all. Just careful, knowledgeable of the vehicle and reasonably confidant.

Its just a shame that people's fears have led to a dearth of large-car product... because I find the Lucerne to be on the small side, and a total compromise. When I drive, I don't want to have to drive a truck for leisure due to my size or because I need to move some stuff between houses. I own one table saw... and need it at all three houses sometimes... putting it in the Bonneville is a disaster. Climbing up into and driving a big truck is WORK... and I already work enough.

I find big cars to be lots of fun on twisty roads... You simply drive different... with the tires complaining the whole time. I always laugh when some guy is tearing up a twisty road or the freeway in their customized BMW... and I creep up behind them... in an old station wagon or a van with a payload approaching its max. Only thing I hate is when I have to brake hard and three pallets loaded with whatever slide forward.

I have no problem sticking to the bench seat. For me, sitting in a seat designed for a little tiny rear end is very uncomfortable when it only fits 1.25 ass cheeks. Those soft interior parts are nice, too... as they creak and whine as I crush them into oblivion... slowly pushing the center console into the passenger's seat area and the inner door panel into the door itself. If I stretch while seated or try to dig in my pocket for my wallet... CRACK... that the seat back adjustment delimiter yielding and bending.

If I test drive your little car, it will never be the same. ;-) If you are seated behind me, neither will you.

I was watching some people recently and I couldn't believe there are people shoving 6-8 riders into Civics. That must be a lot of fun to drive... and comfortable, to boot. So in the end, I don't get it... why would someone what to essentially have a clown car.

We aren't all living in NYC or Tokyo... so why be so sparingly with the space? It has little to do with weight... the heaviest cars are not the biggest.

Want to "get it", Satty? Lets go for a long drive together. I'll bring my table saw. You'll get it.

[PurdueGuy]

My mother-in-law's Lucerne felt perfectly fine to me, size-wise. Of course, my first car was a '76 Mercury Monarch (a compact! ...right...), and I've since driven cars across a large range of sizes, from Saturn S-Series at the smaller end, our Suburban at the larger (not counting delivery vans & trucks and a mini bus), as well as DD'd a '90 Grand Marquis for a couple years. Drive some of the larger '70's cars and then drive the Lucerne & tell me how unreasonably sized it is.

[SAmadei]

This is probably the only site where I find people having issues with center consoles. I much prefer a center console with buckets to a bench, but to each their own.

I'm fine with a set of lightly contoured, wide buckets with a narrow console... but today the buckets are TOO sculptured and narrow... and the consoles are too large. IMHO, no console needs to be wider than 4". Save the wide consoles for truly wide cars...

[SAmadei]

Ironically perhaps, the last time I was in a Lucerne (last summer), we had 6 adults in it.

Just reading that is giving me claustrophobic chills.

I can't imagine 6 people in any car smaller than a '96 B-body.

[Robert Hall]

Well, they aren't building cars for the morbidly obese, but for normal sized people. What I do like about center consoles are solid, fixed cupholders and cubby holes for stuff...I've found the cupholders in cars w/ bench seats tend to be weak. Column shift for automatics is nice, though...would rather see it there than on the console in non-performance models.

The Lucerne doesn't seem very big to me, it has the weak FWD design w/ the intrusive front wheel wells and is rather narrow for it's size. I like the Panthers as they are the last of the real full size cars.

Alas, with the demise of the Panthers the only serious big cars any more are seriously expensive (S-class, 7-series, Ghost, etc).

Edited July 17, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[smk4565]

Lucerne is quite big, my Aurora is bigger than I wish it was, and the Lucerne is another 5-6 inches longer than that. Although for as it is on the outside, they don't make the best of that space on the inside. The Lucerne is bigger than needed, and that is probably why it is dead now. The Lacrosse even looks big, because it has a high and bulky look to it, likewise with the Taurus/MKS. These huge FWD sedans are a dying breed.

[SAmadei]

The Lucerne doesn't seem very big to me, it has the weak FWD design w/ the intrusive front wheel wells and is rather narrow for it's size. I like the Panthers as they are the last of the real full size cars.

Agreed about the Lucerne. But disagree with the Panthers. Panthers don't feel exceptionally big to me because I always felt like I was too close to the windshield. Another reason the final B-bodies seemed so much more spacious.

[Robert Hall]

The Lucerne doesn't seem very big to me, it has the weak FWD design w/ the intrusive front wheel wells and is rather narrow for it's size. I like the Panthers as they are the last of the real full size cars.

Agreed about the Lucerne. But disagree with the Panthers. Panthers don't feel exceptionally big to me because I always felt like I was too close to the windshield. Another reason the final B-bodies seemed so much more spacious.

Panthers I've always found spacious..I slide the seat way back and it's quite comfortable..though the door armrest seems too far away. I never cared for the huge minivan-size windshield and deep dash is last B-bodies..

[Croc]

Lucerne is quite big, my Aurora is bigger than I wish it was, and the Lucerne is another 5-6 inches longer than that. Although for as it is on the outside, they don't make the best of that space on the inside. The Lucerne is bigger than needed, and that is probably why it is dead now. The Lacrosse even looks big, because it has a high and bulky look to it, likewise with the Taurus/MKS. These huge FWD sedans are a dying breed.

Agreed. I really wish my Aurora were shorter...seems to have a lot of wasted space up front, to be honest...but then the gorgeous design would be affected. I can say with certainty: I would never want my daily driver to be any bigger than my Aurora. Just too cumbersome.

Every now and then, I like driving our big boaty 1980 Sedan de Ville...but that's less "driving" and more "cruising"...and the key is occasionally. As a daily driver, no bueno, even though the honks and attention is great

Edited July 17, 2011 by Croc

[balthazar]

s-class/7-series aren't very big cars. Town car is the last true full-size car IMO.

Moltie- surely you'd be more comfortable in a Town car than a narrower s-class/7-series with a bloated console.

A Town Car has 57.0" / 59.9" front/rear hip room (s-class can't give these figures because it has a console, but it'd be less),

and my '59 has 66.1" / 66.3" - nice! That's part of the 'overstuffed' scenario I referenced earlier: TC is only 2.2" narrower, but has 9" less hip room.

[Robert Hall]

s-class/7-series aren't very big cars. Town car is the last true full-size car IMO.

Maybe not by a 1959 standard, but in today's market the S-class is a definitely big car...124.6 wb, 205 length..a bit narrow (73.7 inches) though..but definitely heavy enough (up to 5000lbs for the S65AMG).

Moltie- surely you'd be more comfortable in a Town car than a narrower s-class/7-series with a bloated console.

A Town Car has 57.0" / 59.9" front/rear hip room (s-class can't give these figures because it has a console, but it'd be less),

and my '59 has 66.1" / 66.3" - nice! That's part of the 'overstuffed' scenario I referenced earlier: TC is only 2.2" narrower, but has 9" less hip room.

I like the Town Car quite a bit, but I do wish Ford had updated the interiors..it seems rather old and underequipped inside compared to the MKS or S-Class..of course, the S-class is twice the price..but compared to the MKS, the Town Car seems very dated as far the cabin tech. Still, I like the size and quiet of the TC...

Edited July 17, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[regfootball]

had a customer lately, the lesabre was not big enough (tall family members well over 6 feet). the Impalas of early 00's were the only vehicles that seemed to work for them. I would imagine the Lucerne might work also.

In that regard, I hardly find something like a DTS or a Lucerne being commodious being a liability.

i am anxiously awaiting a drive in the new Passat. It's huge inside but does not look like a huge car physically.

width is a nice thing. cruze vs. cobalt is like 4 inches wider and more recline in the rear seat. not really any more leg room. grand prixs with the wider is better feel more spacious than other w cars.

[Drew Dowdell]

I got a chance to ride around in a Lucerne the other day, and that thing is unreasonably big. I mean seriously, three fat Minnesotans could have hot sweaty sex in back and the driver would never know. Its insane. I'm pretty sure that my son would get lost in the back seat. I'll stick to reasonably sized cars.

The Lucerne isn't bad for a mid-size.

[Satty]

I got a chance to ride around in a Lucerne the other day, and that thing is unreasonably big. I mean seriously, three fat Minnesotans could have hot sweaty sex in back and the driver would never know. Its insane. I'm pretty sure that my son would get lost in the back seat. I'll stick to reasonably sized cars.

The Lucerne isn't bad for a mid-size.

Maybe not if you're constantly hauling around linebackers, but the Jetta is far larger than what we need a vast majority of the time and perfect the rest of the time.

Edit: Not sure how I doubled that one up....

Edited July 17, 2011 by Satty

[Paolino]

I like the Lucerne and come from a family of tall drivers. My brother is 6'6", I'm 6'3", my dad is 6'2", my uncle is 6'5". It's one of the few cars where I feel I can actually stretch out or have someone in the front seat and I'm not completely stuck with my knees jammed and immobile in the back seat.

[smk4565]

Lucerne has 108 cubic feet of interior room. The Genesis, Equus and S-class are all 109 cu ft. Now that the Town Car is dead, those cars are about as big as it gets. Unless you look at a Rolls or Maybach which is more limo than car. But isn't something like 90% of driving done with only one person in the car? Small and mid-size cars are roomier than ever now also, the huge car has been on decline for years. I think for the better also, because small cars 10-15 years ago offered practically no equipment at all, now you have power everything, heated leather seats, sat-nav, even self parking aides in compact cars.

[Intrepidation]

Panther cars are an example of poor packaging. The Grand Marquis bigger than the Intrepid yet the Intrepid has more front and rear leg room. The only area it has an advantage is that the truck is deeper, but the Intrepid's is longer, and the seats can fold down to allow long items, such as a roll of carpet, to fit inside. I enjoy them both but would pick my car for a long trip, especially on a winding road.

[balthazar]

Anyone have the formula/method for how interior cubic volume is measured??

[Cory Wolfe]

[Drew Dowdell]

Anyone have the formula/method for how interior cubic volume is measured??

Fill it with sand.

[Drew Dowdell]

I got a chance to ride around in a Lucerne the other day, and that thing is unreasonably big. I mean seriously, three fat Minnesotans could have hot sweaty sex in back and the driver would never know. Its insane. I'm pretty sure that my son would get lost in the back seat. I'll stick to reasonably sized cars.

The Lucerne isn't bad for a mid-size.

Maybe not if you're constantly hauling around linebackers, but the Jetta is far larger than what we need a vast majority of the time and perfect the rest of the time.

Edit: Not sure how I doubled that one up....

For me, it's a matter of ride comfort that comes with the size. The Jetta had a good amount of room, but for ride comfort the Lucerne has it beat easily. It is simply easier to get a smooth ride with something that has a long wheel base everything else being equal.

My issue with the Lucerne is with it's manuverability at low speeds. It gets called a boat because of it's Titanic like turning radius. Parking a Lucerne is difficult compared to other large cars... This is coming from a guy who's current daily driver is an '81 Toronado, prior was a '96 Roadmaster, and prior to that was an '04 Avalanche. All three of those are easier to park than a Lucerne simply because the turning radius was more appropriate for their size.

[Robert Hall]

Smooth, quiet and space is what I enjoy when I rent a big car. Too much noise in most smaller cars.

[ZL-1]

That other (slightly bigger) blue car in the background, though... Hmmm... Nice little car!

[ocnblu]

Love my Fiesta, happy with the ride and handling and quietness on the highway, relative to its size and my preconceptions.

Not averse to something slightly bigger, like a 1973 Pontiac Catalina. I'm really not scared, in fact, I find it enjoyable to ride in serene comfort from time to time.

My mother's 1981 Renault Le Car was one of the best-riding cars I've been in. The wheels were at the far corners, it had like NO overhang at either end. The French CAN tune a car for ride, for sure. It would simply glide over bumps, with its imperturbable independent suspension and no roll stiffness. Of course, it scraped its door handles on corners, but that was part of its charm.

[Delta Force79]

I won't buy/own/drive anything smaller than a midsize. But I prefer full size cars. My Rivera is full size, so is my Olds. As a matter of fact I planned on possibly getting a W-body Monte Carlo or Grand Prix coupe prior to buying the Riv and decided against it because at the time I had recently had a 4 door Grand Prix rental and could barely fit in the car. Even with the seat all the way back I found it to not be enough room and I felt very boxed in and cramped. I've had the same complaint with my grandmother's Lumina which has a bench seat btw. I'm not that big of a guy either, I'm only 6'1". Even with the Riviera which is quite large for a coupe, I keep the seat all the way back and I find it to be just about perfect for my comfort and driving style, which is very relaxed, usually one hand on the bottom of the wheel and the other on the shift handle or just resting my arm on the center arm rest.

[balthazar]

s-class/7-series aren't very big cars. Town car is the last true full-size car IMO.

Maybe not by a 1959 standard, but in today's market the S-class is a definitely big car...124.6 wb, 205 length..a bit narrow (73.7 inches) though..but definitely heavy enough (up to 5000lbs for the S65AMG).

To put it into vintage perspective, an s-class is only 4-5" longer than an intermediate Plymouth Volare / Dodge Aspen.

S-class is only relatively 'large', but in the big picture it's only mid-sized. The width is far too narrow.

[Robert Hall]

s-class/7-series aren't very big cars. Town car is the last true full-size car IMO.

Maybe not by a 1959 standard, but in today's market the S-class is a definitely big car...124.6 wb, 205 length..a bit narrow (73.7 inches) though..but definitely heavy enough (up to 5000lbs for the S65AMG).

To put it into vintage perspective, an s-class is only 4-5" longer than an intermediate Plymouth Volare / Dodge Aspen.

S-class is only relatively 'large', but in the big picture it's only mid-sized. The width is far too narrow.

Again, though, this is 2011..a 'vintage perspective' isn't very relevant in discussing today's car market.

[ocnblu]

I was thinkin' the Aspen/Volare were tagged as "compacts" when they came out and replaced the Dart/Valiant.

[Camino LS6]

I was thinkin' the Aspen/Volare were tagged as "compacts" when they came out and replaced the Dart/Valiant.

Correct.

[Robert Hall]

I was thinkin' the Aspen/Volare were tagged as "compacts" when they came out and replaced the Dart/Valiant.

Yeah, they were about the size of the X-body Novas. By the mid-80s the M-body Grand Fury, Diplomat, and 5th Avenue were 'full size' but basically the same as the F-body Aspen/Volare as far as the dirty bits.

Cars have grown, cars have shrunk over time. That's just the way it is..it's futile to try and compare across decades because the reality contexts have changed so much. It's fun to wallow in nostalgia for the past now and then, but spending too much time there leads to the downward spiral into madness and isolation from the current reality...

[Camino LS6]

I don't know about all that, the current reality is nothing to write home about.

In fact, it generally sucks.

[vonVeezelsnider]

I like big cars and small, they both serve their purposes. My next car will likely be a Cruze, Malibu, or Verano. Even so I don't think I could ever part with having a big car in my life. Will probably keep my 07 Impala indefinitely.

[Robert Hall]

I don't know about all that, the current reality is nothing to write home about.

In fact, it generally sucks.

There is no future in the past. Time keeps moving forward whether we want it to or not..