What makes a GMC a GMC?

[GMTruckGuy74]

What makes a GMC a GMC?

What is professional grade? GMC designer Jeff Perkins shares how unexpected things liike power tools inspire designs that are uniquely GMC.

http://www.youtube.com/gmc?x=us_showcase_90

[balthazar]

Good attitude/approach, but not overly different from a lot of other brands.

Real functionality, above & beyond the segment is what would really propel GMC forward.

I'd love to see some specific 'tailgate workbench' features.... I have a few ideas born from need/experience- is there a way to contact GMC directly, Rog?

[regfootball]

i thought a different grille, red gauge lights, and optional 'denali' was all

[hyperv6]

It used to mean a 366 V6 and Semi Cabs, Medium Duty Stake trucks and other real trucks. Today it is a different grill an extra chrome.

I do have to say I have always liked the GM styling over the Chevy. I am not a Denali fan but the present GMC pickup has a much nicer nose than the Chevy.

[smk4565]

3 red letters on a Chevy truck.

[balthazar]

It used to mean a 366 V6...

The 366 was a V-8, but I'm sure this was your frequent typo-itis and you meant 306 V6.

[hyperv6]

It used to mean a 366 V6...

The 366 was a V-8, but I'm sure this was your frequent typo-itis and you meant 306 V6.

Not a typo of just a mistake, I had worked on many 366 Big Blocks too and just made a mistake. But that is ok as you also made a mistake too. The engine was a 305 V6. I guess it just proves neither of us know or can remember it all. But thanks for the boorish rude comment anyways.

We had a few of the 305 V6 engines back then on some medium duty trucks. I had worked on them back when I was still in school and learned to drive trucks with one. They were very old but I at least got spend some time on them and learn a little on them. At least we never had any with the plaid valve covers.

They seem to be a thing GMC collectors have made a legend of as good ones are hard to find today. I saw one set years ago and just thought someone painted them.

http://www.6066gmcguy.org/GMCplaid.htm

Hmmm? Is this what really makes a GMC a GMC lol!

Edited July 9, 2011 by hyperv6

[balthazar]

Fair enough, I was off by a cube. I hate when that happens.

I've also worked on the 366 before; swapped one sluggard out of a C60.

Just not sure you are aware how your posts are a bit of a challenge to sort thru sometimes >>"Not a typo of just a mistake"<<

Did not mean to come off as rude, but typos are NOT strangers to your posts, and that just a fact. No matter.

-- -- --

Did the 305 make GMC, GMC? I'd say so : proprietary engines are indeed a hallmark of autonomy & identity.

In that category- it's more than they've had since the '60s.

[hyperv6]

Fair enough, I was off by a cube. I hate when that happens.

I've also worked on the 366 before; swapped one sluggard out of a C60.

Just not sure you are aware how your posts are a bit of a challenge to sort thru sometimes >>"Not a typo of just a mistake"<<

Did not mean to come off as rude, but typos are NOT strangers to your posts, and that just a fact. No matter.

-- -- --

Did the 305 make GMC, GMC? I'd say so : proprietary engines are indeed a hallmark of autonomy & identity.

In that category- it's more than they've had since the '60s.

No worries as I am well aware of my typo's and really don't care. I spend all day everyday behind two large flat screens dealing with customer and companies. I have to be spot on there. At Home I am off the clock and pretty much do not take the time to worry about typo's. The spell check here does not work for me either and the several people I have ask said they did not know what to do to fix it. When I type on the fly or the I phone there are typo's when I have time to recheck there are none. Just the way it is. Sorry if it is a challange but I think you are sharp enough to get the point.

What made GMC a GMC was Large Trucks and Buses, the things Chevy did not make. Today they are gone but the fact remains GMC is an blank slate that can be made into anything it needs to be.

The trucks are a given since they are cheap and profitable but GMC needs more than just making everything a Denali.

The Ganite is a good first step It is something Chevy does not have and will fill a niche left by the HHR.

Hummer should have been a GMC model It would have been cheaper to do and it would have been easier to adapt to other models. I would still see the Hummer H3 or what ever they were calling the Jeep like Hummer they were considering. A real off road small vehicle would fit nice here with a Turbo 4. The flat torque curve and low end power with high MPG would be a nice fit here.

A GMC to challange the Raptor would be the best choice here. I expect one soon but it should not also be a Chevy.

A performance line of trucks in 4x4 and 2x4 like Fords SVO would be nice. Do special editions like Ford does the Harley trucks.

A line of special order fleet truck as Ford does would also help. I have seen some of the large Logging pick ups they make for the lumber companies and other trick fleet editions. Let GMC do the fleet work and let Chevy work on the normal public offerings.

To survive GMC need to reinvent its self. They can take the chance on special models and limited versions. Most would add profit as none would be cheaper models.

Just for God sake just don't keep forcing a lot of chome on us and a Denali name on ever model. In time this will wear thin and the public will move on. They need to be more open minded and keep it fresh.

As for your error, that is ok as I always thought of you as cube short anyways. Sorry that was too easy.

[balthazar]

GMC needs to cut down the overlap w/ Chevy and stay to the HD side of the line. The Granite, while a neat concept, is too much in the people-mover category; not ideally fitting for GMC and too much Chevy's territory.

I don't have a quibble over the Silverado/Sierra, because the demographics there are strong, but Chevy needs to drop the 1-ton trucks and leave them to GMC, and GMC should get heavier versions back. Also, the All-Terrain is an excellent sub-direction, but Chevy shouldn't get any.

Of course, this is quite academic in light of GMC's volume & profit, but it's fun to fix the 'mistakes'.

[hyperv6]

GMC needs to cut down the overlap w/ Chevy and stay to the HD side of the line. The Granite, while a neat concept, is too much in the people-mover category; not ideally fitting for GMC and too much Chevy's territory.

I don't have a quibble over the Silverado/Sierra, because the demographics there are strong, but Chevy needs to drop the 1-ton trucks and leave them to GMC, and GMC should get heavier versions back. Also, the All-Terrain is an excellent sub-direction, but Chevy shouldn't get any.

Of course, this is quite academic in light of GMC's volume & profit, but it's fun to fix the 'mistakes'.

I agree fully here. But even with the Granite I have no issue with it as long as it remains only a GMC and not shared with Chevy. I would also want the expanding pick up bed version.

I think GMC is the perfect place to try out new ideas and segments. They have little to risk with the way they are set up. They have the profits from chromed Chevy rebodies but can move and attempt to make new segments.

I would let Chevy do the more sporty truck and street trucks. The ZQ8 S 10 and Colorado are fun trucks that needed more engine to go with the suspension. I would love to see more done in the full size with a truck that handles as well as hauls. I loved my ZQ8 as it was like a Camaro with a pick up bed. Too bad it only had a 4.3.

Some of the off road stuff like the Jeep like Hummer tuned GMC could be shared with other GM branches around the world. I see GMC as a good fit for Holden with the open territory and off road needs there. A SUV with Range Rover traits could also be a good move for GMC but keep it away from Chevy.

[GMTruckGuy74]

I don't think GMC needs to go completely upmarket with their models, because there are a lot of W/T / SL and SLE models that are sold along with the SLT and Denali models. You don't want to exclude any potential sales by blocking out lower priced models.

Offering niche models alongside the standard models is definitely a way for GMC to go. They have a great start with the Denali trim for the luxury-oriented buyers, but they have an untapped market with the All Terrain trim. Currently the Sierra is the only one with the All Terrain option, though the Yukon was shown with a similar treatment for the SEMA show a year or so back and the Canyon comes with an off-road package a'la Z71 (Colorado) that could easily be converted over to All Terrain. Now the package needs to have a Denali-like transformation - look at the 2011 Sierra All Terrain HD Concept truck for what this package could be. Since Hummer as a brand is dead and also carries the connotation of being un-green in this enviromentally-friendly world, the All Terrain trim can offer the best of Hummer while not carrying the stigma of Hummer's reputation. GMC can also focus on green vehicles, such as with the Granite CUV and LUV, that can enlarge GMC's footprint in an untapped-by-GMC market. However, outside of the light duty-based Heavy Duty trucks, there is no Medium and Heavy Duty offerings anymore in GM land (the Topkick/Kodiak and W/T-Series are gone and I don't think there's anyway a General/Astro tractor will make a return). Though I would love to see GMC compete with Ford's Medium Duty trucks (LCF and F650/750).

So GMC can continue with their sales trends by offering the standard W/T, SL, SLE, SLT models for the buyers not seeking anything "extra" in their truck purchase, continue with the Denali trim for those customers that want that extra "bling" (show) and go, and add All Terrain models for those that want the off-road show and go. Then when GM has the money I think they can look at re-introducing Medium Duty trucks to compete with International Trucks line (TerraStar, CityStar, DuraStar particularly).

[hyperv6]

I want GMC to matter. To do so they need to do what Pontiac really did not do with many models till the Solstice and G8 came along. They need to have models that are not just fancy Chevys.

Pontiac got lost with taking a Chevy and adding red dash lights and ribbing. Yes it was a better looking car but it still was just a fancy Chevy. The Denali for the most is much the same. A Chevy with more chome and more options but under the body lies just another Chevy.

While I am ok with the Denali line it should not be all GMC is. They can be so many other thing and mean something when you buy a GMC.

In the past I loved GMC for the most because I like the Grills better. For the most that was all that was different. We had a Serra Grande stolen back in the late 70's. They found it 5 years later. It had a New Chevy Grill in it and the emblems had been changed. It looked like any other Silverado around. When we got it back we knew it was a GMC but no one else did. That is what GM needs to correct today. They don't have to get all crazy but lets offer some features Chevy can't have.

[balthazar]

Aside from the last few crazy years, GMC has mattered. Sales steadily climbed & climbed over the decades since GMC lost it's own engineering department (not a major factor anyway). The buyers were obviously the ones that knew they had a GMC- they pushed the DIvision to nearly 600,000 units less than 10 years ago. But absolutely; GMC needs to be the trickle-down source for truck engineering- it's time someone at GM told Chevy Truck to go pound sand.

I see an awful lot of commercial GMCs- these companies are chosing GMC over Chevrolet for tangible reasons. Build on that.

[GMTruckGuy74]

I want GMC to matter. To do so they need to do what Pontiac really did not do with many models till the Solstice and G8 came along. They need to have models that are not just fancy Chevys.

Pontiac got lost with taking a Chevy and adding red dash lights and ribbing. Yes it was a better looking car but it still was just a fancy Chevy. The Denali for the most is much the same. A Chevy with more chome and more options but under the body lies just another Chevy.

While I am ok with the Denali line it should not be all GMC is. They can be so many other thing and mean something when you buy a GMC.

In the past I loved GMC for the most because I like the Grills better. For the most that was all that was different. We had a Serra Grande stolen back in the late 70's. They found it 5 years later. It had a New Chevy Grill in it and the emblems had been changed. It looked like any other Silverado around. When we got it back we knew it was a GMC but no one else did. That is what GM needs to correct today. They don't have to get all crazy but lets offer some features Chevy can't have.

I agree, Hyper. The sad fact is that the "old GM" is alive and well in the truck department. Yes there are some differences today - the Acadia looks different from the Enclave & Traverse and the Terrain is separate in design from the Equinox - a great start! But the Savana, Sierra, Yukon and Yukon XL are not different enough from their Chevy counterparts, and the other sad fact is that GM allowed that to happen (you just have to know that the Acadia and Terrain were styled at or near the same time as the GMT-900 program, so why were they not given that level of distinction from Chevy too?). It all boils down to the fact that GM knew those vehicles would sell regardless if they were very different from their Chvey counterparts, and knew that the Acadia and Terrain would not. However, I feel with the next generation of vehicles, this so-called "New GM" knows that different sheetmetal styling all around is needed - different front ends, different boxes (pickups), different interiors (hell, GM could have done that with the current GMT-900s by giving the basic work truck dash to Chevy and the uplevel dash to GMC & Cadillac), and different side and rear styling for the SUVs (like how the new Durango and Grand Cherokee are different). However, features/options are what customers want and I could say for myself that I would not want to limit what buyers could choose juct because of the brand they go with - maybe go back to the golden age where the newest innovation is featured on the GMC first model year and then rolled over to Chevy Trucks the following year (or mid-year).

Total differentiation is what is key to GMC's survival against Chevrolet Trucks. Gone are the days where a different grille, rims and side trim equal a "GMC". Different sheetmetal styling, niche offerings based on standard models (Denali and All Terrain), some unique-to-GMC models (the Granite, the Hummer Hx Concept, maybe even a return to medium duty trucks), and being the lead for innovations (features and options) are the recipe to make a GMC a GMC.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Aside from the last few crazy years, GMC has mattered. Sales steadily climbed & climbed over the decades since GMC lost it's own engineering department (not a major factor anyway). The buyers were obviously the ones that knew they had a GMC- they pushed the DIvision to nearly 600,000 units less than 10 years ago. But absolutely; GMC needs to be the trickle-down source for truck engineering- it's time someone at GM told Chevy Truck to go pound sand.

I see an awful lot of commercial GMCs- these companies are chosing GMC over Chevrolet for tangible reasons. Build on that.

I agree with you 100%, balthazar. When the original Yukon Denali and GMC Jimmy-based Envoy debuted in 1998 as 1999 models, that gave GMC a unique product until the Escalade came out and the Blazer-based TrailBlazer arrived on scene. I thought then that GMC was going to be differentiated more from Chevy, but that plan never materialized. However sales of all truck brands (Dodge/Jeep, Ford/Mercury/Lincoln, and GMC/Chevy/Oldsmobile/Buick/Cadillac) took off in the mid-'90s as a result of the SUV and pickup craze. Now with gas price fluctuations, those with a need and wallet for trucks are keeping those sales alive and the CUV offerings for those with the want but without the full wallet (look at how many 4cyl-equipped CUVs are sold today - a decade ago V6s and V8s were all the rage with low gas prices).

Your last statement has caused me to think a little more. I too see a ton of commercial-based GMCs on the roads in Mercer, Burlington, and Camden counties (lower central & southern NJ counties for those not-in-the-know). PSE&G and Verizon, for example, have a ton of them in fleet usage. But does that mean that they specifically picked GMC, or did GM Fleet Sales want to move more commercial grade GMCs? I have no problem with that, as I think it's great to see GMCs on the road in any fashion However, as for independent fleet owners (landscape companies, tow companies, municipalities, etc), I tend to see more Ford commercial vehicles (look at your police & fire depts - it seems as if GM is just now making a showing with Tahoes, Suburbans, and Silverados where Ford has ruled with Expeditions, Super Dutys, and Explorers for years). I think it would be great for GM Fleet Sales to concentrate on GMC trucks for commercial sales, but not exclude any business that wants commercial Chevy Trucks, going forward. I also think it was Hyper that said to give GMC more global presence by selling GMCs instead of Chevy Trucks (like as how Holden was pointed out). Chevrolet can be the global CAR company, and GMC could be the global TRUCK company, not to mention the green, earth-friendly benefits to separating the two brands (Chevrolet can earn the title of the gas-saving brand whereas truck duty can be related to GMC). Of course what's working against this plan is that Chevrolet Trucks are already established around the world - but that doesn't mean it couldn't change over to GMC.

[Camino LS6]

To be fair, GMC did get unique product over the years, and was used to showcase new technology.

It just wasn't done consistently enough, or comprehensively enough to create a real GMC trait from it.

I could have been, and should become, GMC's brand identity.

But they still shouldn't be the brand to get the Ute!

Dammit!

[balthazar]

I have no horse in the Chevy / GMC ute game- they both had 'em (for a short while in the case of GMC), and I'm not a Chevy super fan.

GMC has a real opportunity to reall 'professional grade'-up their trucks AFA work-centric features. They have a bunch, bit there's room for a bunch more. Flexibility is how GM (and Dodge & Ford) have crushed the japanese in pick-ups; frankly it's amazing how badly they've performed in this major category.

Roger- you bring up a good question WRT how the fleet breakdown is orchestrated. Someone should stop in their local dealer and find out the story there.

[hyperv6]

GMC for the most was just a truck for any non Chevy dealer to offer for the last few years. Many of the past GMC dealers were real truck dealers offering pick up and it changed to a Pontiac or Buick dealer that had a SUV to offer. Good for profits but not great for image. This left many questioning why GMC was even here. Profits are all that saved it.

Yes they did throw a token cool truck out once in a while when the engineers and car guys at GM won an argument. But never reall enough to impact the line up.

I think now to take these truck and make them special woud go a long way. Ford offers so many different trucks and variations. They also make speacial trucks for many companies. GM has never really done much of this the last so many years.

I am ok with the Denali deal if they would offer more than just that to set appart from Chevy.

GM has the ability to do with GMC What Ford, Ram and any import can not do. GM has a one two punch here one with Chevy that is a given to make a big profit. The two punch is a GMC that can step out and set the market on it's end offering truck few others would take a risk on. GM has a place they can try things out and advance the market in ways other would never risk. This is where they can think outside the box or try things that are different and new. They then can move it to Chevy if they work out.

As for the Ute I agree it would be best as a Chevy but at this point you had better take what ever you can get. I owned a GMC Sprint SP once and it was not the end of the world. Right now I would take a Ute in this market with any GM name if that is what it takes. LOL!

[Camino LS6]

Would I take a Ute with GMC badges? Yeah, but that doesn't make the decision to give it to GMC a smart one on GM's part.

The whole world would call it an El Camino anyway - no matter what GM's marketing people dream-up to promote it as a GMC.

And that's just a stupid battle to fight.

Utes aside, it seems that we all agree on the direction GMC should move in. That's pretty amazing for the crowd here at C&G.

I think they should start with a GMC version of the Hummer HX - it was one of the most creative concepts to come from GM in the last decade. Had the economy not taken a dump, it may well have been the saviour of the Hummer brand. It deserves a new life as a GMC.

And yes, Chevy should keep their grubby hands off of it.

It is the sort of vehicle that could sell extremely well and build a true identity and loyal following for GMC.

It would be lots of fun to see the Jeep Wrangler get one-upped.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Utes aside, it seems that we all agree on the direction GMC should move in. That's pretty amazing for the crowd here at C&G.

+1

That is an amazing fact all by itself

I think they should start with a GMC version of the Hummer HX - it was one of the most creative concepts to come from GM in the last decade. Had the economy not taken a dump, it may well have been the saviour of the Hummer brand. It deserves a new life as a GMC.

And yes, Chevy should keep their grubby hands off of it.

It is the sort of vehicle that could sell extremely well and build a true identity and loyal following for GMC.

It would be lots of fun to see the Jeep Wrangler get one-upped.

Another +1

While a production Hx Concept-turned-GMC may not be a direct competitior to the Jeep Wrangler, as long as it steals customers away from the Wrangler and puts the "Hx" out where Jeep owners can see them in action is good enough for me

[GMTruckGuy74]

But they still shouldn't be the brand to get the Ute!

Dammit!

The enthusiast in me agrees with your statement because of the El Camino's historical significance to Chevrolet. However the 21st century "New GM" enthusiast in me feels that Chevrolet dealers have enough car and truck product to sell that giving the Ute over to GMC will benefit their dealers from having a unique model to generate sales & traffic. GMC should be the truck division with the unique models.

Now if GM were to decide to sell the civillian Caprice sedan and wagon, then by all means I could see the Ute going to Chevrolet just because. However, if GM has no intentions of selling a Caprice sedan and wagon, why not offer the Ute to GMC? A plus for you Camino is that you could always order the available Chevrolet parts to convert a GMC Ute into a Chevy El Camino

[67impss]

I'm on this bandwagon also. Pardon me if this doesn't come across just right. Chevy should be the softer side of work trucks sporty, economic, historic(el camino)though still offered to fleets with modest needs. Chevys should get HIPO V8's that still can tow & carry a load, Turbo V6's & the Mini MAX for economy and Zeta with the Utes. Chevy takes no back seat to GMC their brothers that have different occupations.

GMC should go after Ford Super Duty, Jeep, Creative work solutions (the vise on the tailgate I've wanted for years doing Fleet Maintenance) Engines should be tuned for the most torque at the sacrifice of HP and the BASII offered for fleets needing to watch their fuel MPG also CNG offered again. Add some kind of panel truck to the mix but not a HHR replacement more fleet oriented good tie downs netting containment wells. Professional Gradeneeds to be much more than "I can spend more on my truck so I'll buy a GMC over a Chevy! GMC should be able to option up higher than its brother as privet fleet owners may want a classy rig like Owner Opperators buy their OTR Tractors. Also GMC should be the Division to relaunch Medium Duty Trucks with out Chevy in that mix.

[hyperv6]

Would I take a Ute with GMC badges? Yeah, but that doesn't make the decision to give it to GMC a smart one on GM's part.

The whole world would call it an El Camino anyway - no matter what GM's marketing people dream-up to promote it as a GMC.

And that's just a stupid battle to fight.

Utes aside, it seems that we all agree on the direction GMC should move in. That's pretty amazing for the crowd here at C&G.

I think they should start with a GMC version of the Hummer HX - it was one of the most creative concepts to come from GM in the last decade. Had the economy not taken a dump, it may well have been the saviour of the Hummer brand. It deserves a new life as a GMC.

And yes, Chevy should keep their grubby hands off of it.

It is the sort of vehicle that could sell extremely well and build a true identity and loyal following for GMC.

It would be lots of fun to see the Jeep Wrangler get one-upped.

I agree on the Ute. I am just tired of the playing around. Just bring it here already.

Thanks for recalling the HX name for me. It slipped from me. GM could do well against a more modern Jeep. They would not be pinned down by traditional things that hurt the Jeep and can in all intents make a better Jeep than Jeep could.

As for GMC doing more larger trucks. I am ok with that to a point. Once you get passed the F350 the profits are slimmer and the imports own this market anymore. They can bring in the cheaper imported trucks and make money.

To do the same GMC would also have to import these trucks. Even the larger Ford Medium duty trucks were sold and are now Sterling.

As for GMC

Up to a F350 is fine but to go after the F450 or more would not be very good. If I recall correctly even GM got out of the Top Kick line due to lack of profits. They even killed it off in the recent Transformers movie like the Solstice.

Edited July 13, 2011 by hyperv6

[Camino LS6]

For GMC, opportunity is knocking... let's hope someone answers the door.

[riviera74]

I have no horse in the Chevy / GMC ute game- they both had 'em (for a short while in the case of GMC), and I'm not a Chevy super fan.

GMC has a real opportunity to reall 'professional grade'-up their trucks AFA work-centric features. They have a bunch, bit there's room for a bunch more. Flexibility is how GM (and Dodge & Ford) have crushed the japanese in pick-ups; frankly it's amazing how badly they've performed in this major category.

Roger- you bring up a good question WRT how the fleet breakdown is orchestrated. Someone should stop in their local dealer and find out the story there.

The primary reason Toyota and Nissan have done a relatively poor job at selling trucks is a combination of brand loyalty AND they simply do not understand what it takes to make their trucks attractive to Americans, especially in rural areas. Anyone can make the case that GM, Ford and Chrysler did not understand small cars well enough in the last 40 years or so to make them competitive versus the Japanese. (Only in the last three years have GM and Ford invested enough and released worthy small cars.) I know a guy who bought himself a Toyota FJ Cruiser and he likes it. The reason is that he already went through a rather piss-poor Dodge Dakota and would never buy one again.

As for what makes a GMC a GMC, I do not really know. But it should be differentiated MORE from Chevy trucks period. Excluding the Acadia and Terrain, MSRPs on a GMC truck are a little higher in price than the Chevy equivalent. Customers deserve more for their dollar than that.