Last Cadillac DTS Heads Into The Bulgari Collection

[William Maley]

Last Cadillac DTS Heads Into The Bulgari Collection

William Maley - Editor/Reporter - CheersandGears.com

May 27, 2011

2011 Cadillac DTS - The Last One

This week, the final Cadillac DTS rolled off the assembly line at the Detroit-Hamtramck plant. The DTS, draped in black paint ends two eras for the crest; the use of the De Ville nameplate and Northstar V8.

The last DTS will be heading off to Nicola Bulgari's collection of vehicles. Bulgari, the vice chairman of the luxury goods firm that bears his family’s name is also a avid collector of cars. His collection includes more than a dozen Cadillac vehicles, including two 1940s limousines used by the Vatican for the Papal motorcade and two Cadillac BLS sedans sold in Europe.

“I like the DTS because it’s a great sedan. It’s the last of an era. I thought it would be wonderful to own the last Northstar in a DTS. It’s one of the best engines ever designed – reliable and a performer,” said Bulgari in a press release.

Press Release is Below

Cadillac DTS Awaits Place in Bulgari Collection

Italian luxury goods executive buys last DTS from Detroit-Hamtramck

2011-05-27

DETROIT -- Nicola Bulgari, an avid car collector and vice chairman of the Bulgari luxury goods firm, prefers not to dwell on the sheer number of automobiles in his car collection.

“Is it important?” Bulgari asked. “Is it the number or the quality that matters? It’s the quality.”

Bulgari buys each car for a reason, not just to expand his collection. So when he heard Cadillac was ending production of the DTS luxury sedan, Bulgari knew he wanted the last one off the line.

Introduced for the 2006 model year, the DTS is a significant automobile, primarily because of the Northstar V-8 engine under its hood, Bulgari said. The last DTS, made this week at General Motors’ Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly Plant, is now headed for Bulgari’s collection.

“I like the DTS because it’s a great sedan,” Bulgari said. “It’s the last of an era. I thought it would be wonderful to own the last Northstar in a DTS. It’s one of the best engines ever designed – reliable and a performer.”

For decades, the DTS and its predecessor, the DeVille, have anchored Cadillac’s spot in the large luxury car market. Last year, the DTS outsold all other large luxury cars in the United States, topping the Mercedes-Benz S-Class, BMW 7-Series, Lexus LS430 and Lincoln Town Car. A version of the DTS also served as the U.S. president’s limousine until 2009, when it was replaced by a new Cadillac presidential limousine.

The last DTS will join an illustrious line of automobiles in Bulgari’s collection, which he houses at facilities in Rome and Allentown, Pa. The grandson of a silversmith who opened a jewelry shop in Rome in 1884, Nicola Bulgari has helped the company grow into a global network of 293 stores selling high-end jewelry, watches, leather goods, perfumes and fashion accessories.

Bulgari developed his passion for automobiles, particularly American automobiles, as a child growing up in post-World War II Italy. He remembers seeing U.S. soldiers and dignitaries driving all makes and models of American automobiles through the streets of Rome. His collection includes every GM model made in 1941, the year he was born.

“It’s something that goes back a long time,” Bulgari said. “It started when I was 5 or 6 years old. It cultivated an incredible passion that has grown and gotten more sophisticated as I’ve come to understand the history better.”

When he was 25, Bulgari bought his first Cadillac – a 1938 Cadillac V-16 Town Car. With its smooth, powerful engine, the Cadillac V-16 is considered by most experts as one of the finest automobiles of all time. Bulgari has sold his V-16 but said he would add another to his collection if he found the right one.

“It was quite an experience to drive that car because the quality was second to none,” Bulgari said. “The suspension design, the power, the engine… Everything was built with extraordinary quality.”

Bulgari’s collection includes plenty of other Cadillacs and LaSalles, a companion brand for Cadillac from 1927 to 1940. His collection of classic cars includes:

1932 Cadillac 355B V-12 Fleetwood Limousine

1934 Cadillac Model 355B Series 20 Sedan

1934 LaSalle Coupe

1940 LaSalle Convertible Coupe

1940 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Sedan

1941 Cadillac Series 61 Sedanette

1947 Cadillac Model 7533 Limousine

1949 Cadillac Model 7533 Limousine

1949 Cadillac Convertible Coupe

1954 Cadillac Series 54-62 Fleetwood Sedan

1970 Cadillac Coupe DeVille

The 1947 and 1949 limousines were used by the Vatican as part of the Pope’s motorcade. In addition to the classic cars, Bulgari is a fan of contemporary Cadillacs. He owns a 2007 Cadillac BLS Sedan and 2009 Cadillac BLS Wagon, both part of a short-lived nameplate for the European market.

Bulgari also owns a 2009 XLR-V Coupe equipped with a special Bulgari speedometer, a 2010 CTS Wagon and 2009 CTS-V Sedan.

“Of the three, the Sedan, Coupe and Wagon, the Wagon stands out in front of all the competition,” Bulgari said. “It makes the competition look ludicrous.”

The CTS-V Sedan is among the best cars in the world for providing both function and performance, Bulgari said. Italian sports cars are nice, he said, but they aren’t practical The CTS-V Sedan, Wagon and Coupe all feature a 556-horsepower supercharged V-8 and a Magnetic Ride Control suspension system that can read and react to the road 1,000 times a second. They also have back seats.

“I have news for you with a V,” Bulgari said. “I want to see some Ferrari or Lamborghini on the road and I will give him a lesson. They’ll never expect it.”

Bulgari said he looks forward to driving the DTS. He likes to drive his cars, not just put them away as museum pieces. He’s also looking forward to future automobiles from Cadillac. A long-time buyer of GM vehicles and friend of Ed Welburn, GM’s vice president of Global Design, Bulgari closely follows the company’s products.

Although timing has not been determined, Cadillac plans to add a car larger than the CTS. Cadillac showed an XTS Platinum Concept car at the 2010 North American International Auto Show, providing an indication of the brand’s direction.

“I’ve seen the XTS Concept,” Bulgari said. “I know it’s superior. The DTS was a great sedan for its time, but it’s a different world, a new period. It’s time for something different.”

[daves87rs]

Cool...

[ponchoman49]

Sad. One of the last traditional impressive looking Cadillacs. I'm sure if GM spent a few bucks on a 6 speed automatic, next gen Northstar V8 and suspension/interior upgrades this car could easily have lived many more years. Expect it's replacement to have V6 only power, greater curbweight, less interior width and room and a smaller trunk.

[ocnblu]

Mr. Bulgari has good taste in Cadillacs. The DTS is the last Cadillac to have that special mystique... big, powerful, serene, authoritative. Regal in stature. It's like Cadillac's foundation is gone. Truly a sad development.

[riviera74]

Sad. One of the last traditional impressive looking Cadillacs. I'm sure if GM spent a few bucks on a 6 speed automatic, next gen Northstar V8 and suspension/interior upgrades this car could easily have lived many more years. Expect it's replacement to have V6 only power, greater curbweight, less interior width and room and a smaller trunk.

Other than lack of RWD, I agree. The XTS needs to be lighter and better than the outgoing DTS. Ideally, the XTS should be the next-generation Lucerne, since production of that car ends next week. Those FWD G-bodies were only meant to have 4 speed automatics since they first debuted in 1985. Six-speed transmissions are larger, so GM would have to alter the platform somewhat for a six-speed to fit. As for the next-generation Northstar V8, GM had the Ultra V8 but shelved it for reasons unknown or unclear.

Cadillac deserves a real RWD flagship NOW!

[vonVeezelsnider]

Take a look at the XTS in the light of day... I say it looks pretty good. While I do agree that there needs to be a proper S-Class fighting Cadillac, I'm sure they'll sell more of these than they did DTSs.

[ocnblu]

I never had a problem with the XTS front and rear 3/4 view, my issue with the car is the stumpy hood. Since the relief of knowing it is not meant to be a flagship for the brand, I am OK with it, as long as it is as unique as possible on the LWB EpsII chassis.

[vonVeezelsnider]

I never had a problem with the XTS front and rear 3/4 view, my issue with the car is the stumpy hood. Since the relief of knowing it is not meant to be a flagship for the brand, I am OK with it, as long as it is as unique as possible on the LWB EpsII chassis.

I agree with you about the hood, hopefully they can sort that out with the flagship model... It needs to be longer and lower, but I'm afraid with all these new pedestrian impact regulations, we're about to see more cars that look like the XTS than don't.

[riviera74]

I must admit that I actually like how the XTS looks . It is certainly NOT a flagship, since that flagship should be an XJ/7/S-class/LS460 fighter.

One question: why is this not a second-generation Buick Lucerne again ?

[ZL-1]

I must admit that I actually like how the XTS looks . It is certainly NOT a flagship, since that flagship should be an XJ/7/S-class/LS460 fighter.

One question: why is this not a second-generation Buick Lucerne again ?

I think it was Dodgefan that posted a chop of the XTS with RWD proportions; it looked great! Try and look it up in older posts; to me it is what the flagship Cadillac should look like.

[jock82]

They already have a CTS, why make this thing. As the owner of a current DTS. I have probably bought my last Cadillac. I hate the looks of this thing. Smaller, 6 cylinder engine, no thanks. (Caddy owner since 1970)

[smk4565]

The DTS's death was long overdue. That car is ancient by current luxury car standards. As is the Northstar and 4-speed auto. It was a great powertrain in the 90s, but it is 2011 now.

Perhaps what is sad, is that the Deville/DTS is dying because Cadillac was unable to keep it current or modernize it. Where as a car like a 7-series or S-class has seen generation after generation and constant improvement. The XTS looks a bit tall and slab sided to me, it also looks rather bulky. The XTS seems like another GM car that will come out, sit on the market for 6 years with no update and become stale and cancelled.

[Drew Dowdell]

They already have a CTS, why make this thing. As the owner of a current DTS. I have probably bought my last Cadillac. I hate the looks of this thing. Smaller, 6 cylinder engine, no thanks. (Caddy owner since 1970)

A V6 with 50 to 75 more horsepower than your Northstar.

I'm a big fan of the DTS, but if they get the XTS's interior anywhere close to that of the concept, it will be a knockout. It looks 100 times better in person. None of the pictures do any justice to it's size and imposing look in the when viewed in the steel.

[smk4565]

They already have a CTS, why make this thing. As the owner of a current DTS. I have probably bought my last Cadillac. I hate the looks of this thing. Smaller, 6 cylinder engine, no thanks. (Caddy owner since 1970)

A V6 with 50 to 75 more horsepower than your Northstar.

I'm a big fan of the DTS, but if they get the XTS's interior anywhere close to that of the concept, it will be a knockout. It looks 100 times better in person. None of the pictures do any justice to it's size and imposing look in the when viewed in the steel.

I don't think that V6 is going to have 350 hp. More like the 304 hp from the 2012 Impala. And even if it does have 350 hp, it will have to also have AWD or face ridiculous torque steer. AWD adds weight, and Lincoln already put a big 350 hp V6 awd sedan on sale in 2009, and hardly anyone cares about it or buys it. The 2013 XTS is a 2009 Lincoln MKS, with maybe a better interior. Even better is how the next Impala will share the platform, engine and transmission with the XTS. So that Impala-XTS is just like Taurus-MKS, that is not standard of the world.

[balthazar]

The 5-series/7-series 'twins' manage to stand on their own.

Flagships don't compete on what they share with other cars- they compete on what they offer the consumer segment.

[smk4565]

The 5-series/7-series 'twins' manage to stand on their own.

Flagships don't compete on what they share with other cars- they compete on what they offer the consumer segment.

The 7-series has a 535 hp V12, and the XTS has the front wheel drive and a 300 hp V6. What is Cadillac offering the luxury segment, that the Lincoln MKS and Acura RL (neither of which sell) already offer. The XTS is offering $30k sedan powertrain at a $50k price. All the XTS is, is an over sized (and over weight) Lexus ES350. Everyone here is quick to rip the ES350 because it is a Camary and will claim the CTS is better than the ES350 because the CTS is rear drive, sporty, unique platform, etc. Yet when Cadillac does exactly what Toyota does, it is okay and all is forgiven.

I already can't wait for the day the last XTS rolls off the line and it sees its death.

[balthazar]

7-series has a 3.0L 6-cyl <- by far the most popular choice- the same engine that's the most popular in the same-chassis 5-series. As the flagship, the 7-series should have it's own engines, or at least engine tuning if shared.

Reportedly, the 6-cyl XTS developed more HP than the 6-cyl 740's 315, but where the production spec will fall remains to be seen. '300' is NOT an official number, but 300 is well within competitive trim of 315- these cars do NOT race. The 6-cyl XTS will not compete with a V-12 7-series (that no one buys) just like the V6 S-class doesn't, either.

[Drew Dowdell]

They already have a CTS, why make this thing. As the owner of a current DTS. I have probably bought my last Cadillac. I hate the looks of this thing. Smaller, 6 cylinder engine, no thanks. (Caddy owner since 1970)

A V6 with 50 to 75 more horsepower than your Northstar.

I'm a big fan of the DTS, but if they get the XTS's interior anywhere close to that of the concept, it will be a knockout. It looks 100 times better in person. None of the pictures do any justice to it's size and imposing look in the when viewed in the steel.

I don't think that V6 is going to have 350 hp. More like the 304 hp from the 2012 Impala. And even if it does have 350 hp, it will have to also have AWD or face ridiculous torque steer. AWD adds weight, and Lincoln already put a big 350 hp V6 awd sedan on sale in 2009, and hardly anyone cares about it or buys it. The 2013 XTS is a 2009 Lincoln MKS, with maybe a better interior. Even better is how the next Impala will share the platform, engine and transmission with the XTS. So that Impala-XTS is just like Taurus-MKS, that is not standard of the world.

You can't and don't know that. GM has all but banished torque steer in their high powered FWD cars with the Hi-Per Strut. Gone. Kaput. Finished.

The Lincoln MKS, while decent of hardware, still feels like a Taurus SHO in a TUX, particularly on the interior where there is switchgear out of the F-150.

I expect that the XTS will have switch gear common to the other Cadillacs rather than Impala or Malibu.

[smk4565]

The XTS is just a DTS but fatter, with a cheaper platform and a cheaper engine. Yes that new engine may make 25 more hp than a 17 year old V8, but pretty much anyone's V6 makes more power than a V8 did in 1993. The XTS is not worthy of the wreath and crest, regardless of what they do with the engine or the interior. It isn't as good as a German full size car, or even a full size Hyundai. Cadillac is supposed to be world class, not 4 years behind Lincoln.

[Drew Dowdell]

7-series has a 3.0L 6-cyl <- by far the most popular choice- the same engine that's the most popular in the same-chassis 5-series. As the flagship, the 7-series should have it's own engines, or at least engine tuning if shared.

You're wrong Balthazar. The 7-series doesn't share an engine with the 5-series. It shares it's engine with the 1-series, 3-series, 5-series, X3, X5, X6, 5-series GT, 6-series (in Deutschland only), and Z4.

though it does get a special tune to bump it up 15 HP over it's lesser siblings.

[Drew Dowdell]

The XTS is just a DTS but fatter, with a cheaper platform and a cheaper engine. Yes that new engine may make 25 more hp than a 17 year old V8, but pretty much anyone's V6 makes more power than a V8 did in 1993. The XTS is not worthy of the wreath and crest, regardless of what they do with the engine or the interior. It isn't as good as a German full size car, or even a full size Hyundai. Cadillac is supposed to be world class, not 4 years behind Lincoln.

The Car isn't even out yet. You haven't seen any specs or anything other than the concept. Basically sit down and shut up until Cadillac releases some firm information. If Cadillac were to stay true to the concept's powertrain, that gives it a 350hp two-mode hybrid with AWD. That puts it squarely up against the A8 and S-class base powertrains in the U.S.

I'm not saying that it will be able to climb into S600 territory, but it could easily counter the LS460 and base Germans.

[balthazar]

7-series has a 3.0L 6-cyl <- by far the most popular choice- the same engine that's the most popular in the same-chassis 5-series. As the flagship, the 7-series should have it's own engines, or at least engine tuning if shared.

You're wrong Balthazar. The 7-series doesn't share an engine with the 5-series. It shares it's engine with the 1-series, 3-series, 5-series, X3, X5, X6, 5-series GT, 6-series (in Deutschland only), and Z4. though it does get a special tune to bump it up 15 HP over it's lesser siblings.

Oooooo, a whole 15 HP to differentiate it from the entry-level 1 series flop. Nice separation from the bottom of the barrel to the top. Way to craft a flagship.

[Robert Hall]

The XTS is just a DTS but fatter, with a cheaper platform and a cheaper engine. Yes that new engine may make 25 more hp than a 17 year old V8, but pretty much anyone's V6 makes more power than a V8 did in 1993. The XTS is not worthy of the wreath and crest, regardless of what they do with the engine or the interior. It isn't as good as a German full size car, or even a full size Hyundai. Cadillac is supposed to be world class, not 4 years behind Lincoln.

The Car isn't even out yet. You haven't seen any specs or anything other than the concept. Basically sit down and shut up until Cadillac releases some firm information. If Cadillac were to stay true to the concept's powertrain, that gives it a 350hp two-mode hybrid with AWD. That puts it squarely up against the A8 and S-class base powertrains in the U.S.

I'm not saying that it will be able to climb into S600 territory, but it could easily counter the LS460 and base Germans.

It is Epsilon II, though, isn't it? A mainstream FWD platform can't compete w/ the serious RWD Germans or the LS...

Anyway, the XTS should be a nice competitor for the MKs and Lexus ES, which follow the same formula--premium brand model using a mainstream FWD platform...fine for volume, not good for anything prestigious or luxurious.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

The XTS is just a DTS but fatter, with a cheaper platform and a cheaper engine. Yes that new engine may make 25 more hp than a 17 year old V8, but pretty much anyone's V6 makes more power than a V8 did in 1993. The XTS is not worthy of the wreath and crest, regardless of what they do with the engine or the interior. It isn't as good as a German full size car, or even a full size Hyundai. Cadillac is supposed to be world class, not 4 years behind Lincoln.

The Car isn't even out yet. You haven't seen any specs or anything other than the concept. Basically sit down and shut up until Cadillac releases some firm information. If Cadillac were to stay true to the concept's powertrain, that gives it a 350hp two-mode hybrid with AWD. That puts it squarely up against the A8 and S-class base powertrains in the U.S.

I'm not saying that it will be able to climb into S600 territory, but it could easily counter the LS460 and base Germans.

It is Epsilon II, though, isn't it? A mainstream FWD platform can't compete w/ the serious RWD Germans or the LS...

Anyway, the XTS should be a nice competitor for the MKs and Lexus ES, which follow the same formula--premium brand model using a mainstream FWD platform...fine for volume, not good for anything prestigious or luxurious.

The A8 is just a goosed up version of the A4... the entire Audi lineup is just mainstream FWD cars.

I don't get what "mainstream" has anything to do with well... anything. The Zeta platform may not be mainstream here, but it certainly is in AU. It was running with the 5-series in handling. Is it's performance somehow lessened just because it happens to share a showroom with a Daewoo Lacetti?

I'm not claiming the XTS is Cadillac flagship worthy, nor that there will ever be a V-series.... but the Buick Lacrosse is already an excellent FWD handler, just using that as a base and throwing more Cadillac technology like magnetic ride control and AWD will push the car well over the capabilities of most drivers anyway.

[Justin Bimmer]

The car will win buyers with it's features and comfort. Those exterior photos in the daylight prove that it has high class written all over it. Just wait and see, there will be some people here with hat in hand!

[smk4565]

The Car isn't even out yet. You haven't seen any specs or anything other than the concept. Basically sit down and shut up until Cadillac releases some firm information. If Cadillac were to stay true to the concept's powertrain, that gives it a 350hp two-mode hybrid with AWD. That puts it squarely up against the A8 and S-class base powertrains in the U.S.

I'm not saying that it will be able to climb into S600 territory, but it could easily counter the LS460 and base Germans.

The base V6 S-class is $91,000. I don't see the XTS competing with that. There will also be the next generation S-class on sale at the time the XTS debuts, and Mercedes does have some powertrain enhancements in store.

[Robert Hall]

The A8 is just a goosed up version of the A4... the entire Audi lineup is just mainstream FWD cars.

Audi is a premium AWD brand in NA..not low/common FWD. The A8 doesn't share a platform with the mainstream transverse FWD VW platforms.

[Drew Dowdell]

The A8 is just a goosed up version of the A4... the entire Audi lineup is just mainstream FWD cars.

Audi is a premium AWD brand in NA..not low/common FWD. The A8 doesn't share a platform with the mainstream transverse FWD VW platforms.

I guess that means my '81 Toronado, Dodgefan's Intrepid, my Ex's Passat, or that Ghetto cruiser Eagle Premier I see around all the time are "premium" FWD platforms?

[Robert Hall]

The A8 is just a goosed up version of the A4... the entire Audi lineup is just mainstream FWD cars.

Audi is a premium AWD brand in NA..not low/common FWD. The A8 doesn't share a platform with the mainstream transverse FWD VW platforms.

I guess that means my '81 Toronado, Dodgefan's Intrepid, my Ex's Passat, or that Ghetto cruiser Eagle Premier I see around all the time are "premium" FWD platforms?

I was distinguishing between mainstream and premium brands..i.e. Chevy/Buick vs. Cadillac, Ford vs Lincoln, Toyota vs Lexus, VW vs Audi, etc. Though one can argue that north/south engine w/FWD is superior to the vile common transverse engine/FWD, but RWD of course trumps both...

Edited June 1, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

^ intangibles & semantics.

[Drew Dowdell]

You think any of this matters to the some 50% of BMW 1-series buyers who think their car is FWD? Or how about my female friend, who's reply when I suggested she rotate her tires was "Don't they do that on their own?"

Most people don't know what a platform is much less which way the engine is pointing.

I forgot another obviously premium FWD platform.... EVERY SUBARU EVER!

[Robert Hall]

Most people don't know what a platform is much less which way the engine is pointing.

Sad but true...but I couldn't care less what 'most people' think...I'm an automotive enthusiast/elitist, dammit!

[Drew Dowdell]

I care more about GM turning a profit and putting out a car that sells well. I think the XTS could sell well like the SRX, another car that has been blasted around here, has.

BTW, the "lame because it's FWD" SRX outsold the "new and wonderfulness because they're RWD" X3 and GLK by 1,000 and 1,600 units respectively again this month.

When will people stop buying what they want and start buying what you want them to buy!?!?

[Robert Hall]

Sales blah blah blah...Cadillac is supposed to be a luxury brand, not a volume brand. Leave the volume to the mainstream brands. Isn't luxury supposed to be about quality and exclusivity, not mass market genericism?

(where's SMK..he understands what I mean..)

Edited June 1, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[FAPTurbo]

Sales blah blah blah...Cadillac is supposed to be a luxury brand, not a volume brand. Leave the volume to the mainstream brands. Isn't luxury supposed to be about quality and exclusivity, not mass market genericism?

According to Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes: No.

[Drew Dowdell]

SRXes are selling at the same average transaction price as the German imports, so the only reason a GLK is "more exclusive" is because 1,600 fewer people plunk down the $40k average required to drive any of these three each month.

[Justin Bimmer]

Luxury

2: a condition of abundance or great ease and comfort : sumptuous environment <lived in luxury>

3a: something adding to pleasure or comfort but not absolutely necessary <one of life's luxuries>

3b : an indulgence in something that provides pleasure, satisfaction, or ease <had the luxury of rejecting a handful of job offers — Terri Minsky>

Yup, nothing about exclusivity.

[smk4565]

The main problems I see with the XTS is it doesn't fit what Cadillac claims it wants to be, doesn't improve brand image, and isn't a sustainable vehicle. The Deville sold well at one time too, and now it is dead. XTS is short term thinking and another GM stop-gap. They aren't making a car for the next 30-50 years, like Mercedes did with the E or S-class in the 1970s.

[Drew Dowdell]

The XTS certainly improves brand image over the DTS..... and I like the DTS.

[ZL-1]

The A8 is just a goosed up version of the A4...

[riviera74]

The main problems I see with the XTS is it doesn't fit what Cadillac claims it wants to be, doesn't improve brand image, and isn't a sustainable vehicle. The Deville sold well at one time too, and now it is dead. XTS is short term thinking and another GM stop-gap. They aren't making a car for the next 30-50 years, like Mercedes did with the E or S-class in the 1970s.

All true. The only problem I see with the XTS is really that it needs to be at least a Hyundai Genesis fighter, not a Taurus/Avalon fighter. A Genesis/Equus fighter would signal to all that Cadillac is actually serious about fighting in the large car luxury wars and winning them. The XTS is a nice idea. . . . . for a Buick. Who's with me on that idea?

[ehaase]

I am disappointed that Cadillac doesn't have its own full size RWD sedan, but at least the XTS looks like a Cadillac. The MKS does not look like a Lincoln. The XTS should be much more successful than the MKS.

[Drew Dowdell]

The A8 is just a goosed up version of the A4...

What's so funny? The Audi A8 is on the MLB platform with the A4

If so many on here are going to simple dismiss the XTS because it share's a few hardpoints (but not wheelbase, roofline, doors, overall length, suspension bits, drivetrain or interior) with the 2012 Malibu... then I'm free to do the same thing to the A8.

[balthazar]

The idea that RWD or FWD alone determines what is a Cadillac or what is a Buick is really bizarre.

[Drew Dowdell]

Agreed. I still don't get the Audi exemption for FWD though. Or what I'm sure will be an exemption for the coming Benz front drive A-class.

Look! It's a premium FWD platform!!!

Look! It's a premium FWD platform!

[balthazar]

You think any of this matters to the some 50% of BMW 1-series buyers who think their car is FWD?

According to BMW- that figure is 70%.

Law of averages and the typical car buyer would point to around 25% assume the same for the 3-series, is my guess.

[ZL-1]

The A8 is just a goosed up version of the A4...

What's so funny? The Audi A8 is on the MLB platform with the A4

If so many on here are going to simple dismiss the XTS because it share's a few hardpoints (but not wheelbase, roofline, doors, overall length, suspension bits, drivetrain or interior) with the 2012 Malibu... then I'm free to do the same thing to the A8.

MLB is a very loose definition of a platform, I believe, more of a component set. The A4 A5 A6 do not use aluminum space frame construction like the A8. Those cars don't actually share platforms with the A8 in the sense GM or Ford have traditionally defined platforms, or even in what GM calls architectures (even though the GM definition is closer to what the VW Group aimed at with the MLB).

In any case, the point many of us are making (implicitly) is that if XTS and ATS shared a platform no one would complain. But the A8 does not share a platfom with the Passat; it's an Audi (and eventually Bentley) thing. Another important point is that for the money GM is spending changing those Epsilon2 harpoints, etc, perhaps GM would be able to properly reskin a Holden Caprice, put in a Cadillac-level interior and have a proper RWD flagship right now instead of falling into the same "it's coming" talk we've all read for 20 years. The XTS's styling would be perfect for the proportions of LWB Zeta, and to me it's a shame to see that opportunity fly away once again.

Edited June 2, 2011 by ZL-1

[Drew Dowdell]

I hasn't flown away. It's on schedule for a 2014 model year release.

[ZL-1]

I hasn't flown away. It's on schedule for a 2014 model year release.

Given GM's track record over the last 20 or 30 years, I'll believe it when I see it.

[Drew Dowdell]

There is already a platform name and big Ed personally wanted it to happen.