Thaaat'll leave a mark

[Drew Dowdell]

[Drew Dowdell]

Another View:

[SAmadei]

Its called Cadillac One.

Anyway, that's really scary.

I'm shocked that the Secret Service was not aware of the limo's limitations in this aspect... especially since limos are well known to get high centered. I'm also very surprised that the Secret Service driver did not gun it a little more to have enough momentum to get it over the hump... it appeared to me to almost make it. I do not want to think of how this could have turned out if this occurred at an embassy in a politically hotter part of the world than Ireland... Sure the agent following the limo could have attempted to push it... but that limo probably outweighs the big GM SUV.

Edit: I thought that was a SUV behind it... what is that? Another Cadillac One? To my knowledge only one exists... unless that is one of the older limos... but it doesn't look like one. Seeing the US flag on it, it still could have attempted a push if this was an emergency.

Sure, its funny... but it just has severe security implications.

I also question if mechanical failure is to blame... in the second video, that tire is pushed into the fender pretty hard considering the weigh of the limo is sitting on the body.

I guess the next limo really will sport 28" bling rims and an Air Ride adjustable suspension.

Edited May 23, 2011 by SAmadei

[Drew Dowdell]

I watched that second video again and I think it was actually a security mechanism that accidentally went off and the limo went into crouch mode at exactly the wrong time.

It looks like it dived onto the concrete rather then getting high centered.

[Robert Hall]

I watched that second video again and I think it was actually a security mechanism that accidentally went off and the limo went into crouch mode at exactly the wrong time.

It looks like it dived onto the concrete rather then getting high centered.

Hmmm..or the air suspension failed...that round thing in the second pic looks like one of those popup security bollards they have at some locations...maybe it popped up.

Maybe they should build the next limo off an Escalade w/ height-adjustable suspension...

[Drew Dowdell]

Failing air suspensions don't "suck" wheels up.

[SAmadei]

I watched that second video again and I think it was actually a security mechanism that accidentally went off and the limo went into crouch mode at exactly the wrong time.

I'm not sure how crouching would be that beneficial... unless its an anti-tornado feature. LOL. I assume the car has some sort of air suspension... perhaps when the body dragged, it popped an air line.

It looks like it dived onto the concrete rather then getting high centered.

It does. Bizarre. Hardly anything in the news about it... just that he abandoned the "the Beast" for another car.

[SAmadei]

Failing air suspensions don't "suck" wheels up.

The wheels didn't pull off the ground... gravity crushed the car down on them. Certainly could happen if there was a sudden pressure loss.

[Drew Dowdell]

Crouching is to prevent something from getting under it from the side or the front. Also provides better safety (because of the cage around the occupants) if someone is intent on ramming it and a collision is unavoidable.

[§carlet §wordfish]

I thought the current Cadillac One had Escalade headlights. Are they still using the old ones?

[Robert Hall]

I thought the current Cadillac One had Escalade headlights. Are they still using the old ones?

Probably for external travel like this, they use one of the older ones...

[SAmadei]

Crouching is to prevent something from getting under it from the side or the front. Also provides better safety (because of the cage around the occupants) if someone is intent on ramming it and a collision is unavoidable.

If a collision is unavoidable, you want to hit the other vehicle with the beefiest parts... the bumpers, not relatively flimsy sheetmetal above it, regardless of the armor added. Typically going high works better, assuming you are trying to avoid flipping it. Going low suffers risking the other vehicle hitting the cage directly and also having some crush damage... could the attacked vehicle continue driving if the attacking vehicle was parked on top of it? In any case, crouching while driving would cause the vehicle to drag on the ground, risking losing control.

Crouching would not stop a forklift or bulldozer from getting under the vehicle, as the seal would never be complete. I imagine plenty of things could still be thrown under a crouched car... it is simply better to drive away from threats like that.

Which brings my to the first rule of car security: keep moving... crouching is not moving. A vehicle stopped will eventually be compromised regardless of armor.

My final point about crouching is that it is hardly a good security feature if it can't be immediately uncrouched... but that's just my armchair quarterback's opinion of the situation.

I'm going to stop there before the black helicopters are dispatched.

[SAmadei]

I thought the current Cadillac One had Escalade headlights. Are they still using the old ones?

Probably for external travel like this, they use one of the older ones...

This might be one of the older ones... I just assumed it was the current one. The article in the Guardian remarks that "the Beast" was stuck on a driveway ramp.

A few months ago, there was a sweet documentary about the security on one of the Discovery Channels... the President does use the newer one outside the country. It is flown in by helicopters or on big airplane transports, along with a whole bunch of backups and support vehicles. The logistics of it all are quite impressive, especially considering the Secret Service are ready to change plans at a moments notice. Its very cool stuff.

[FAPTurbo]

0:12 has the most satisfying sound, ever.

Oh yeah, that was ALL ME, by the way. Didn't get around to the whole 'bomb' thing though. I was busy checking out the Bombshells in my porncave. But yeah, death on you all and such.

[Drew Dowdell]

Crouching is to prevent something from getting under it from the side or the front. Also provides better safety (because of the cage around the occupants) if someone is intent on ramming it and a collision is unavoidable.

If a collision is unavoidable, you want to hit the other vehicle with the beefiest parts... the bumpers, not relatively flimsy sheetmetal above it, regardless of the armor added. Typically going high works better, assuming you are trying to avoid flipping it. Going low suffers risking the other vehicle hitting the cage directly and also having some crush damage... could the attacked vehicle continue driving if the attacking vehicle was parked on top of it? In any case, crouching while driving would cause the vehicle to drag on the ground, risking losing control.

Crouching would not stop a forklift or bulldozer from getting under the vehicle, as the seal would never be complete. I imagine plenty of things could still be thrown under a crouched car... it is simply better to drive away from threats like that.

Which brings my to the first rule of car security: keep moving... crouching is not moving. A vehicle stopped will eventually be compromised regardless of armor.

My final point about crouching is that it is hardly a good security feature if it can't be immediately uncrouched... but that's just my armchair quarterback's opinion of the situation.

I'm going to stop there before the black helicopters are dispatched.

It's not a forktruck that Limo 1 is concerned about., it can outrun even the fastest of fork trucks. It's propelled explosives getting under there that they want to avoid.

Crouch, survive rocket attack, un-crouch, run.

The car can withstand a rocket attack, but I'm sure that it's underbelly it it's weakest point and is also a way for an explosive to flip the car (then it really can't run).

I doubt it uses air shocks... too vulnerable to failure. Most likely it's hydraulics. It can be raised or lowered in either direction, and fairly quickly at that.

[Drew Dowdell]

You guys are right, that's not Obama's normal "Limo 1", that must be the travel one. That's the one built for George W. Bush.

Limo 1 built for Obama

Limo 1 built for George W. Bush.

[daves87rs]

Boy, that was loud.....

[SAmadei]

It's not a forktruck that Limo 1 is concerned about., it can outrun even the fastest of fork trucks. It's propelled explosives getting under there that they want to avoid.

If there is ANY gap, an RPG's explosive force open it and likely will lift the car. The limo does not have the ability to perfectly match the ground/pavement/other beneath it. If that was desired, you would need an armored, multisectioned skirt of sorts... preferably angled away from the car to deflect the force up and over the car.

Crouch, survive rocket attack, un-crouch, run.

Well, for starters, a rocket attack can't be detected until its launched... and they move fast enough that you wouldn't have time to stop the car. Second, any serious attempt would not use a single RPG... so your scenario would turn into...

Driving... Detect... Crouch... Slide... Survive Rocket Attack... Survive Rocket Attack... Survive Rocket Attack... Survive Rocket Attack... Survive Rocket Attack... ad nauseum.

How many attacks can the car survive? This is why you need to MOVE FAST.

Lets put this another way... we're not building our tanks to crouch to survive attacks. We build our tanks to go 70+ mph escaping attacks.

The car can withstand a rocket attack, but I'm sure that it's underbelly it it's weakest point and is also a way for an explosive to flip the car (then it really can't run).

No way. Assuming the designers have learned from world wide events, the underbelly is likely some of the heaviest armored. I'm sure it was designed to be able to run over mines and stuff. In general, the weakest points in an armored vehicle are at the door/window seams.

Cadillac One is classified, of course, but looking on Google results in no links to crouching armored cars or anything like it. If it was a worthwhile defense, there would be armored vehicle companies advertising it.

I doubt it uses air shocks... too vulnerable to failure. Most likely it's hydraulics. It can be raised or lowered in either direction, and fairly quickly at that.

Well, we did just see a failure of some sort, didn't we? Had that been hydraulic, there would have been an fairly big spray or smoke had the spray hit something hot.

I don't see where hydraulic versus air power would that big of a difference in reliability. I've seen both break. I'm just assuming air because so many modern heavy vehicles use it when comfort is desired.

[Drew Dowdell]

No, I don't think it was a mechanical failure, I think a safety or defensive system got tripped.... basically it got activated when it shouldn't have.

[SAmadei]

Looking at further articles, it looks like the President was in another limo.

The Secret Service released a statement..

Departing the US Embassy – Dublin, the Secret Service Spare Limousine, carrying staff and support personnel only, bottomed out at the top of the driveway rendering the vehicle inoperable. Occupants were relocated into other vehicles and the motorcade departed out another exit without further incident. No injuries.

The size of our vehicles is always an issue and taken into consideration during the advance process. However, it only takes a slight miscalculation for problem like this to occur. Appropriate follow-up will be conducted.

[Drew Dowdell]

I still don't think it was a miscalculation on their part. Something failed for the wheels to be pushed up like that....it could have been mechanical or computer... but something crashed before the car did.

[caddycruiser]

I still don't think it was a miscalculation on their part. Something failed for the wheels to be pushed up like that....it could have been mechanical or computer... but something crashed before the car did.

Bottoming out/high-centering is one think. But the "poof" and instant drop of the front end was very hydraulic like. There is no reason, looking at the vehicle vs. bump, for that to happen otherwise, especially with the sound made.

At least in my opinion. Classified information, so it's hard to ever know for sure what makes that car what it is. Looks like it hit, and then because the undercarriage was hit where it was, something was triggered to drop. Still weird, but "woosh" drop.

[cletus8269]

heheh maybe this would help out...

maybe they should have opted for the turbo boost...

[Camino LS6]

That looked like a really hard hit.

If this car has torsion bar front suspension, I'd say that the torsion bars were ripped from their mounts allowing the wheels to move up into the fenderwells.

I think the limo had some serious damage underneath.

[ShadowDog]

I'm not sure if it was mentioned, but if you look at the passenger side wheel right before the moment of failure, the suspension lifts it completely off the ground and the front end slams down. That looks more like a hydraulic action took place to retract the wheels. If anything, I wonder if the operator meant to engage lift to assist ground clearance over the hump and accidentally engaged retract? In any event, I'm sure plenty of 'American girth' jokes were let loose.

[SAmadei]

Even considering the lousy quality of the video, I'd have to disagree about it coming completely off the ground. Something seems to jar the wheel, though... tough to judge what.

Its hard to predict how an "exotic" suspension like that on the limo would behave, considering its helping hold up 8 tons plus.

I still question that dropping the suspension was intentional or accidental, especially considering that if left the limo "inoperable". Balancing the idea of "giving away" a secret feature of the limo (hydraulic height adjustability) versus the showing off a possible Achilles heel of the limo and leaving the President hemmed in behind it, I would think they would choose the former... and raised it back up to get back on the road.

[ShadowDog]

Even considering the lousy quality of the video, I'd have to disagree about it coming completely off the ground. Something seems to jar the wheel, though... tough to judge what.

Its hard to predict how an "exotic" suspension like that on the limo would behave, considering its helping hold up 8 tons plus.

I still question that dropping the suspension was intentional or accidental, especially considering that if left the limo "inoperable". Balancing the idea of "giving away" a secret feature of the limo (hydraulic height adjustability) versus the showing off a possible Achilles heel of the limo and leaving the President hemmed in behind it, I would think they would choose the former... and raised it back up to get back on the road.

In any event, it would appear there was no longer the capability to correct the problem from in the cab; i.e., it broke.