Biggest Car Flops of the past 15 years - C&G Edition - Nomination thread

[Drew Dowdell]

Biggest Car Flops of the past 15 years - C&G Edition

That yahoo article posted earlier was so bad, I felt that we should close the thread and show them how it's done. So have at it C&Gers, submit your nominations for the biggest car flops of the past 15 years.

[Camino LS6]

Well, your "poster child rates highly on my list. At one point I referred to it as the ugliest car in history - then something worse came along.

On opposite ends of the scale I nominate the Smart car and the Maybach.

Utter flops.

[Z-06]

Acura ZDX. BMW X6 and 5GT.

[Robert Hall]

Lincoln blackwood and mark LT..

Wouldn't consider smart or maybach as flops considering how long they have been around.

[balthazar]

VW "phaeton".

Wondering how close the equus is going to approach that, too.

[Croc]

Wouldn't consider smart or maybach as flops considering how long they have been around.

I wouldn't consider Smart a flop considering how many I see occasionally. FAR outnumbers the Aztek, Envoy XUV, SSR, XLR and TrailBlazer EXT/Envoy XL combined!!

Now Maybach? That's flop territory. I have seen maybe one in LA. In 7 years. I see more Crossfires in a month.

Serious nomination: Chrysler Sebring (last gen)

...in fact just nominate pretty much the entire Mopar lineup of the past 6 years or so, excepting of course the 300.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Croc

[Camino LS6]

I watched the local Benz store waste a ton of money on a new building to sell Maybachs, they might have sold 3 before they threw-in the towel. For their next trick, they decided to sell Smarts using the same building. The result? They bailed after selling maybe a dozen or so. This all happened in the space of, at most, 18 months. They now sell used cars there.

I see a Smart maybe once every three months, and a Maybach never. Yet I see Ferraris, Bentleys, and Maseratis almost every day.

Both are flops.

[Croc]

I watched the local Benz store waste a ton of money on a new building to sell Maybachs, they might have sold 3 before they threw-in the towel. For their next trick, they decided to sell Smarts using the same building. The result? They bailed after selling maybe a dozen or so. This all happened in the space of, at most, 18 months. They now sell used cars there.

I see a Smart maybe once every three months, and a Maybach never. Yet I see Ferraris, Bentleys, and Maseratis almost every day.

Both are flops.

Smart flopped in your local market. Yet again you can't imagine that things aren't uniformly the same across the nation as compared to your little burg. You also can't imagine a world that isn't 100% dependent on driving somewhere every day.

[Robert Hall]

IMO a flop is something that came and went in a short period of time...like the Blackwood, Subaru Baja, or Chevy SSR. (I wouldn't classify the Kappas or G8 as flops, as their premature demise was due to larger corporate issues rather than poor sales).

Smart and Maybach have both been around a long time and are still being sold worldwide, and a high-end luxo car like the Maybach is intentionally low volume. I see at least 2-3 Smarts a week...I've seen a couple Maybachs in Scottsdale and in Las Vegas (hotel limos) but thats about it..

[Camino LS6]

I watched the local Benz store waste a ton of money on a new building to sell Maybachs, they might have sold 3 before they threw-in the towel. For their next trick, they decided to sell Smarts using the same building. The result? They bailed after selling maybe a dozen or so. This all happened in the space of, at most, 18 months. They now sell used cars there.

I see a Smart maybe once every three months, and a Maybach never. Yet I see Ferraris, Bentleys, and Maseratis almost every day.

Both are flops.

Smart flopped in your local market. Yet again you can't imagine that things aren't uniformly the same across the nation as compared to your little burg. You also can't imagine a world that isn't 100% dependent on driving somewhere every day.

And you can't post without being rude and insulting.

Philly is a sizeable market, they'd be here if they sold.

[Camino LS6]

IMO a flop is something that came and went in a short period of time...like the Blackwood, Subaru Baja, or Chevy SSR. (I wouldn't classify the Kappas or G8 as flops, as their premature demise was due to larger corporate issues rather than poor sales).

Smart and Maybach have both been around a long time and are still being sold worldwide, and a high-end luxo car like the Maybach is intentionally low volume. I see at least 2-3 Smarts a week...I've seen a couple Maybachs in Scottsdale and in Las Vegas (hotel limos) but thats about it..

In the case of the SSR, it actually lasted longer than planned - it was only supposed to be a three year run.

[FAPTurbo]

Chevrolet SSR. A 1950's GMC pickup mated with a New Beetle, and had a child that was below average in many ways, including sales.

I'm beginning to think that the Aztec was simply ahead of the curve. Had it been released a year or two ago with some different design considerations, it may actually have done well.

[Drew Dowdell]

SMART was selling so well that Roger Penski threw in the towel and handed distribution rights back to MB.

[smk4565]

Flop is different than bad car, the Sebring is a bad car, but not a flop. Biggest flops I'd say are:

Lincoln Blackwood

Lincoln Mark LT

Pontiac Aztec

Ford Excursion (massive environmental backlash also)

Ford Thunderbird (perhaps a collectable now, but has less market life than the Lincoln LS and Jag S-type)

Buick Terrezza

Saturn Relay

Saturn Astra

Pontiac GTO

Cadillac Catera

Ford Freestyle

Ford Five Hundred

But I think the Lincoln Blackwood I have to put #1, that thing was pointless and didn't sell at all.

[William Maley]

Honda Ridgeline - A car based pickup with a trunk and Honda's reliability... You would think it would sell. Even with the Motor Trend Truck of the Year, it didn't

Pontiac GTO would be on my short list as well..

[Intrepidation]

Subaru Tribeca.

[Lamar]

The first Honda Insight. At this rate, the current Honda Insight. I rarely see them around now.

Speaking of which, the BMW 5 Series GT. Only ever seen one on the road... ever.

Of course, the obligatory VW Phaeton vote... but it seems to have found life rebodied as an entry-level Bentley.

Would we count the Ford Aspire as a flop?

[Blake Noble]

Serious nomination: Chrysler Sebring (last gen)

...in fact just nominate pretty much the entire Mopar lineup of the past 6 years or so, excepting of course the 300.

The Charger is a flop? Rriiigggghhhhhtttttt.

Now, granted, ChryCo did have some flops during the Daimler era. The Jeep Compass would be the other poster child for this (the other horse has been beaten so bad, I won't bother mentioning it). But the Charger has done well, the Avenger has faired better than the, well, you know, the Wrangler has always sold well as with the Grand Cherokee ... Do I have to go on?

I think the Smart Fortwo is a flop. Perhaps not in sales, but in final execution. It only seats two, has a three-cylinder engine, and yet it can barely muster a better combined mpg rating than a Cruze Eco. Yeah, it's a glorified golf cart without any merit or benefit.

[Robert Hall]

I don't think I'd call the Ridgeline a flop...it's been around 6 years, and I see a reasonable number of them around..

For Smarts, now the ForFour was a flop..was on sale in Europe for only 26 months.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Justin Bimmer]

Um, this is easy. Chevrolet Impala, Toyota Camary, Honda Accord, Volkswagen Beetle, Ford F-Series

[PurdueGuy]

Saturn Ion - it sold reasonably well, but when you consider that the last year of sales of the 12 year old S-Series sold more than any year of the Ion that replaced it, that's a bit of a flop.

Saturn Astra - it didn't sell reasonably well, and only sold a fraction of what the Ion sold. When GM decides to skip a model year entirely because there are too many of the previous model year on the lots, that's a pretty bad sign.

[Croc]

SMART was selling so well that Roger Penski threw in the towel and handed distribution rights back to MB.

I don't want to belabor the point, but in certain markets they sell reasonably well. Certain markets being those with high fuel prices and limited parking. I'm guessing they do OK in NYC as well, yea?

[balthazar]

2010 sales for the smart were off by 60% from 2009.

The sprinter handily outsells it.

Dec 2010 volume was only 570 units.

It would do far better if it got -say- 70 MPG instead of a measly 36 combined.

For the size of it, the mileage stinks.

[loki]

not ot make anyone mad, but saturn as a whole. it has a fabulous car with the SKY... but as a brand, overall. it didn't make the test with only the sky being truly remember-able.

[SAmadei]

SMART was selling so well that Roger Penski threw in the towel and handed distribution rights back to MB.

I don't want to belabor the point, but in certain markets they sell reasonably well. Certain markets being those with high fuel prices and limited parking. I'm guessing they do OK in NYC as well, yea?

Not really. I see about as many Smarts in South Jersey as I saw in NYC.

The Smarts had crazy pent-up demand and it took forever for Smart to get units here. But by the time cars were here, word of mouth about the iffy transmission and the economy diving into the crapper just killed it. The people on the waiting list cancelled and the demand was gone. I'm really surprised Mercedes didn't fix the transmission immediately... after all, the European version has a decent transmission.

I still want one... assuming I'm back in NYC in the future... as I'm a street parker. But I think one of the reasons that it didn't catch on in NYC is that many Manhattan residents are well off enough that they pay for parking wherever they go. And some initial PR deals for cheaper Smart parking ended, the fact is that parking a Smart is just as expensive as parking a normal car. Also, the Smart really needs start-stop for sitting in traffic.

At this point, the Smart is a flop in the US.

As for the GTO... it was not a flop in sales... remember the GTO had a 18K ceiling for yearly sales... and it sold at 75% of that... not bad considering there was no marketing. If the GTO was a flop, then so was the Solstice. The GTO averaged 13K a year, the Solstice 11K... but the Solstice required a lot more design and engineering. If the GTO was a flop in outward appearance and execution... well, then everything GM built since 2010 is a flop.

I'd agree the Blackwood was a flop... as was the Marauder. I think the MKZ and MKT are bigger flops than the Mark LT... at least the Mark LT uses F-150 parts.

Edited May 11, 2011 by SAmadei

[regfootball]

Dodgefan makes a great point with the Tribeca.

i look at smk's list and that's like 1/2 my fleet from the last decade. If i include the Astra i verbally agreed next to last day Sept 2008 only to go to work the next day and catch wind of pending layoffs.

Flops should somewhat be judged by happy owners. Myself and at least 3 others i know personally who owned azteks loved em aside from the looks. The flop was maybe GM's marketing dept over estimating sales.....

Edited May 11, 2011 by regfootball

[Croc]

Subaru Tribeca.

Good call, though that actually was a pretty nice Xover!! I easily could have been happy with one...

[Brougham-Holiday]

In no particular order:

Pontiac Aztec- universally hated by nearly everyone and a symbol of GM's perverted view of what a new Pontiac should be.

Chrysler Sebring (2007-2010)- Chrysler takes America's favorite convertible and trashes it. The build a sedan that embodies everything wrong with Detroit as the company is sliding into the abyss.

Smart - Nobody can sell more than a couple dozen in their market before be people question why anyone would buy one.

Saturn Astra - GM's costly experiment to bring a competitive small car here from Europe. They give a car that is ready to be redesigned in it's home markets to a US division that built its reputation of cheep (cheeper than this) small cars. The car was too old and too expensive to be an entry level Saturn.

Pontiac G3 - The car Pontiac enthusiast lose sleep over at night. An awful car, rebadged to give Pontiac owners one last kick in the gut before killing the brand.

Lincoln Blackwood/etc- There simply were not enough farm owning pimps to make this a viable product. That might not be a bad

thing.

Honda Accord Crosstour - Seriously.....Honda you had mojo and its gone.....so far gone.

GM's Redesigned MiniVans (2005)- Trying to find one that didn't start life as a fleet vehicle is a proverbial needle in a haystack. Good thing they only lasted a couple of years...Pontiac, Buick, and Saturn already had enough trouble finding customers without these things.

Chrysler Crossfire- Who knew customers didn't want an old Mercedes with bad Chrysler styling...I'm sure Chrysler dealers love servicing these things since parts are hard to find and they share nothing with other Pentastars.

Cadillac STS- Caddy built a competitive Sports-luxury sedan but everyone had stopped paying attention after 20 years of FWD Sevilles.

[smk4565]

I think to be a flop, the car has to be a one and done model cycle. So cars like the Sebring though terrible, had multiple generations, and the 200 replaced it, but is basically the same. Much like the Ion was around a long time and replaced the SL/SC cars. I think to be a real flop that has to be no second generation or close copy. So I'd look to cars like the Aztec, Cadillac XLR, Thunderbird, Blackwood, etc. These were cars that were on market for 2-5 years, sold in limited numbers, then cancelled with no replacement.

Ridgeline and Subaru Tribeca saw redesigns or second generations, I think the Smart will stick around. Mercury Maruarder was really a trim level of the Grand Marquis which sold well.

Chrysler Crossfire is a good one and done car. Cars like the Catera, Astra and GTO fell short of sales expectations. I think the grand champion is the Lincoln Blackwood though, they sold like 700 in a whole year.

[Croc]

Cadillac STS- Caddy built a competitive Sports-luxury sedan but everyone had stopped paying attention after 20 years of FWD Sevilles ran out of money by the time it came to designing the interior.

FTFY

Edited May 12, 2011 by Croc

[PurdueGuy]

not ot make anyone mad, but saturn as a whole. it has a fabulous car with the SKY... but as a brand, overall. it didn't make the test with only the sky being truly remember-able.

I can't see any way that the S-Series could be considered a flop. Consider the following sales volume numbers:

Chevy Cobalt:

2004 4,959

2005 212,667

2006 211,450

2007 200,621

2008 188,045

2009 104,724

2010 97,376

Saturn S-Series:

1991 48,629

1992 169,959

1993 244,621

1994 267,518

1995 302,988

1996 294,198

1997 314,992

1998 219,765

1999 275,633

2000 169,866

2001 117,842

2002 ?

Not only did the S-Series handily outsell the Cobalt, it did so without being whored out to rental companies, and without customers haggling the price down, and incentives were generally pretty limited.

[Drew Dowdell]

Purdue with numbers FTW.

[67impss]

not ot make anyone mad, but saturn as a whole. it has a fabulous car with the SKY... but as a brand, overall. it didn't make the test with only the sky being truly remember-able.

I can't see any way that the S-Series could be considered a flop. Consider the following sales volume numbers:

Chevy Cobalt:

2004 4,959

2005 212,667

2006 211,450

2007 200,621

2008 188,045

2009 104,724

2010 97,376

Saturn S-Series:

1991 48,629

1992 169,959

1993 244,621

1994 267,518

1995 302,988

1996 294,198

1997 314,992

1998 219,765

1999 275,633

2000 169,866

2001 117,842

2002 ?

Not only did the S-Series handily outsell the Cobalt, it did so without being whored out to rental companies, and without customers haggling the price down, and incentives were generally pretty limited.

So they sold some S series, that still didn't put food on the table "Analysts estimate that Saturn has lost as much as $20 billion over the last 24 years." NY Times 2009

Business Day

[Intrepidation]

Subaru Tribeca.

Good call, though that actually was a pretty nice Xover!! I easily could have been happy with one...

It was a good crossover with a really nice interior, but the exterior killed it, and when they redid the exterior, they made it from polarizing/ugly to bland. I think by then the damage had been done and a bland car doesn't make up for an ugly car.

[PurdueGuy]

So they sold some S series, that still didn't put food on the table "Analysts estimate that Saturn has lost as much as $20 billion over the last 24 years." NY Times 2009

Business Day

You really want to get into this? Fine.

GM was divided on whether to support Saturn from day 1. In spite of major resistance & complaints from a number of people inside GM, Saturn got funded well to get off to a good start, and their first product, the S-Series, was a hit. Some major areas of success include:

a) Impressive sales, especially considering a small number of dealerships

b) Brand loyalty among the industry's highest

c) Better efficiency through worker involvement, made possible by their unique agreement with the UAW

d) High quality ratings

e) No haggle selling meant controlled & restricted discounts on vehicles

f) Major import buyer conversion - many buyers of Saturns wouldn't have touched other GM products with a 10ft pole

For the first ten years or so, Saturn was wildly successful in all but one area - profit - because:

a) small car profit margins suck

b) Saturn was carrying a very, very large overhead with the Spring Hill facility. I can't find the production capacity estimate, but for as many S-Series as they were building, it was still only a fraction of what the factory was capable of.

For all Saturn's success, GM cut off funding before Saturn could take the next steps needed to become profitable. Funds weren't made available for a true Saturn-designed midsize, so along came the Opel Vectra based L-Series, which, while not a total flop by the terms of this thread, was far from a raging success either. On top of that, Saturn couldn't spread the fixed cost of the Spring Hill facility further with the L-Series, as parent GM forced them to produce it in Wilmington instead. The Ion continued the trend of parent GM meddling, and the writing was on the wall, as a hit was replaced with lukewarm sales. The Vue saw mild success, but not enough to turn around the downward trend forced upon the brand by parent GM.

Saturn didn't flop, GM poisoned and starved it in its infancy. And of course many managers and fans of other GM brands were more than happy to see it.

[Intrepidation]

Rondo

Borrego - One year only SUV. Doesn't get much worse than that.

[Camino LS6]

Saturn was a fiasco from the start to the finish, but that wasn't a traditional flop (as in a bad, or maligned, or slow selling car). What it was was a massive over-reach by GM in which it doomed both the Saturn brand as well as its other brands simultaneously.

There were some great aspects to the brand, but the whole venture was an ill-conceived blunder that cut GM to the bone. And it was a self-inflicted wound.

All of that said, calling any Saturn a flop ( with the possible exception of the ION), sort of misses the story.

I don't think I'd name a single Saturn to this list.

[William Maley]

Rondo

Borrego - One year only SUV. Doesn't get much worse than that.

I forgot about those two.. Good choices

[GMTruckGuy74]

My vote would be for teh Honda Ridgeline... only 1 generation and due to die soon

And btw, here's some interesting news...

Ford F-150 SVT Raptor Outsold Honda Ridgeline in April 2011

Despite gas prices being at their highest point since July 2008, sales of the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor high-speed desert runner reached record levels in April.

Ford sold 1,183 Raptor pickup trucks last month, according to Ford SVT spokesman Henry Platt. That's 231 more than the 952 Ridgeline midsize pickups that Honda sold in April.

Yes, this is like comparing apples to oranges, but Honda had hopes of selling about 50,000 trucks per year when the Ridgeline came to market in 2005 for the 2006 model year. Both trucks appeal to niche buyers, and they've both raced in the Baja 1000 — the Ridgeline even won its class.

The 6.2-liter V-8 Raptor is EPA-rated at 11/14 mpg city/highway, while the 3.5-liter V-6 Ridgeline is rated at 15/20 mpg. It appears that fun outweighs frugality, at least for the Raptor.

Eighty percent of Raptor sales were the new SuperCrew model, and black was the most popular color, Platt said.

Let's hope this sales news is seen by General Motors, which is still dithering whether to build its own off-road pickup based on its all-new Heavy Duty truck chassis, as previewed in last year's GMC Sierra All Terrain HD concept.

Chrysler has started sales of its bolt-on Mopar Ram Runner off-road suspension kit for the Ram 1500.

Link: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/05/ford-f-150-svt-raptor-outsold-honda-ridgeline-in-april-2011.html

Edited May 12, 2011 by GMTruckGuy74

[Potluck]

Dodge Caliber - No one thought Chrysler had it in them to fart out an economy compact that was less competitive with it's contemporary counterparts than the Neon was, but those doubters were quickly proven wrong. It is what would result if a Pontiac Aztec mated with a Dodge Omni. It counts for this contest by selling far poorer than its predecessor AND that it will be a one generation vehicle.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Potluck

[SAmadei]

Mercury Maruarder was really a trim level of the Grand Marquis which sold well.

It sold 11000 copies in 2 years. According to Wiki:

The 2003–2004 Marauder sales fell short of corporate forecasts, and after a production run of 11,052 vehicles, the Marauder was discontinued at the end of 2004; in comparison, Mercury produced 179,723 examples of its Grand Marquis counterpart during the same time.

Cars like the Catera, Astra and GTO fell short of sales expectations.

Captive imports are tricky... these all lived piggy backed on more successful carlines overseas, using spare capacity. Some, like the GTO had caps. 18K a year. Also, the GTO was going to be a 3-year run from the start... the car would not pass 2007 Air bag regs. The GTO certainly had problems in MY 2004... but GM and GM's dealers made those missteps and it cost them sales in 2004... but overall, the GTO you are calling a failure sold almost 4x as many copies as the Marauder your are calling a success.

[regfootball]

Rondo

Borrego - One year only SUV. Doesn't get much worse than that.

Does the Kia Amanti classify also?

[Camino LS6]

Mercury Maruarder was really a trim level of the Grand Marquis which sold well.

It sold 11000 copies in 2 years. According to Wiki:

The 2003–2004 Marauder sales fell short of corporate forecasts, and after a production run of 11,052 vehicles, the Marauder was discontinued at the end of 2004; in comparison, Mercury produced 179,723 examples of its Grand Marquis counterpart during the same time.

Cars like the Catera, Astra and GTO fell short of sales expectations.

Captive imports are tricky... these all lived piggy backed on more successful carlines overseas, using spare capacity. Some, like the GTO had caps. 18K a year. Also, the GTO was going to be a 3-year run from the start... the car would not pass 2007 Air bag regs. The GTO certainly had problems in MY 2004... but GM and GM's dealers made those missteps and it cost them sales in 2004... but overall, the GTO you are calling a failure sold almost 4x as many copies as the Marauder your are calling a success.

The GTO also made a profit - did Marauder?

GTO also created a very loyal and fanatic following.

For good reason, it was a great car.

[balthazar]

^ I would agree.

Unfortunately, and once again, it's a GM product; so unless it delivers crushing volume, it has to be a flop.

[Dsuupr]

Top 10 2011 products - Just because they sell a fair number, does not mean it is not a flop, in my book.

1. toyota yaris

2. VW Jetta

3. honda insight

4. acura zdx

5. lexus hs hybrid

6. toyota tundra

7. toyota venza

8. BMW X6

9. hyundai equuis

10. infiniti qx

[Camino LS6]

Top 10 2011 products - Just because they sell a fair number, does not mean it is not a flop, in my book.

1. toyota yaris

2. VW Jetta

3. honda insight

4. acura zdx

5. lexus hs hybrid

6. toyota tundra

7. toyota venza

8. BMW X6

9. hyundai equuis

10. infiniti qx

Can't be an accurate list - Tundra but no F-150?

I call BS.

Either way, wouldn't touch any of those with a ten foot pole - so point taken.

EDIT: OK, I'm dumbass - I just realized that this was your personal list of flops for 2011.

Now I feel really stupid.

Edited May 14, 2011 by Camino LS6

[Lamar]

I saw one this afternoon, and just remembered this thread.

Honda Accord Hybrid. Surprised no one mentioned it yet.