I *REALLY* dislike censorship

[ellives]

Ya know... just because you don't agree with him, PLEASE Mr. Flybrian, let's let the community manage the unruly. Closing a topic is unnecessary and rude. As soon as they user community gets a wiff of this, they'll be gone quicker than Ralph Nader on a bad suspension design.

Edited April 7, 2006 by ellives

[Flybrian]

Ellives,

I assume you're referring to this thread started by Buickman.

In the course of less than one hour, five of the six responses to the original post showed general disdain for the topic. Besides being an unclear and repretative rehash of other threads - something that could've simply been added to one of the many existing discussions on Rick Wagoner - four different members made their feelings clear.

My experience tells that if such a discussion is off to such a start so quickly, it can only degenerate into what most of the other Buickman threads have become.

So, no, not censorship; merely nipping something in the bud.

[tmp]

Actually I thought he was right to close it. Having read the WSJ articles, I thought the basic premise was weak, and the comment of "where's Donald Trump" (the man who bankrupted a casino) was laughable.

[Guest buickman]

censorship.

[Variance]

censorship.

You've been free to have your say in plenty of threads. I haven't seen anyone deleting your posts left and right. That would be censorship. Fly was keeping order. Big difference.

[Robert Hall]

You've been free to have your say in plenty of threads. I haven't seen anyone deleting your posts left and right. That would be censorship. Fly was keeping order. Big difference.

Well, this is a private forum with moderators and rules of conduct...I wouldn't expect free speech here.. therefore, I wouldn't label it censorship.

[Guest Josh]

I like to think that were many of us reside (America) you have the freedom of choice. The freedom of speech, and the freedom to not read a thread by an individual if you chose not to.

I do not believe in stopping a discussion based on a handful of posts who have repeadedtly attacked Dollinger.

That said. While I don't care who is right or who is wrong, I do think people have the choice of instead of reading his "drivel" as people reference it, to please not[/i] read it.

Now, I am going to watch "God Of War" who some how reminds me an awful lot of Robert S. "Steve" Miller.

[the_yellow_dart]

I must say, I do find the overall management of this website by all involved (not just Fly) to be a little paranoid - conclusions are jumped to rather easily and hastily. I still don't understand why Josh caught so much flack for a misunderstanding. Honestly. It's the internet. Some misunderstandings and misinformation are kind of expected. Everybody just needs to chill!!

[Guest Josh]

I still don't understand why Josh caught so much flack for a misunderstanding. Honestly. It's the internet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because apparently I have to please and suck up to everybody here that pays my bills.

Futhermore, this is part of the reason I do not call the shots on the site. I try to enjoy myself and the only reasonable way to do that is to be care free and stress free.

[Flybrian]

Josh's voluntary resignation isn't really realted to this it all, though I'm sure it can be discussed in some other format.

Regarding this, again, this is not censorship. The post remains open for all to read/see and comment on in an existing thread that deals with the Wagoner discussion. To be honest, much of what has been posted by Buickman is more on the side of self-promotion rather than information. That, by the way, was the reason why he originally left the site voluntarily, citing he didn't have time for us 'idiots' or some such verbage.

[Guest buickman]

Actually I did flip out a bit after the repeated unwarranted personal attacks by Wag's Dogs. After a short while I re-entered, issued an apology and jumped back into discussions. Most members here are constructive, if opinionated, and I feel a bond has developed and even some respect where previously we jabbed each other on occasion. Again, my purpose is the Return to Greatness that I know will increase sales and lower expenses. There is absolutely no logical explanation why "Red Ink Rick" prevented implementation after I reached agreement with LaNaive, other than his desire to move offshore and control distribution while eliminating legacy costs. He has misled small investors and caused irrepairable harm to families and communities across America by his Creed of Greed. He's really not that incompetent, it's corruption he exemplifies and capitalism to which he has given a bad name. Meanwhile Fly, you really should reopen the Malice in Motorland thread. In my opinion the closing was premature.

Buickman

[Guest buickman]

Here is a copy of the letter sent this evening to Mr. Edward Lapham, Executive Editor of the Automotive News:

Dear Ed,

I understand the same shameful desparate measure is to appear in your publication. Actually, I thought Harris was a bit smarter than this. He is making himself, and other members of management, look silly and foolish. Perhaps he is rushed by a desire to add value to his options before the bottom falls out, and it will.

Years ago, I warned Lovejoy that unless he drastically changed the marketing he should replace his newly minted "29" pins with "24". Last summer, I forecast the spinoff of GMAC, people proclaimed I was nuts. When GMS came out and LaNeve was shining in glory, I predicted a $10 Billion loss for the year. Again, I was called crazy. Here I am with a plan to Return to Greatness which will immediately add market share while lowering expenses, and we can't even begin a partial implementation of the first twenty steps due to resistance from Wags and LaNaive.

It's a crying shame because sitting on my shelf are some guaranteed winners which I will not disclose until we do the basics. Kind of like the Lombardi movie where he says "Guys, let's start with the basics, this is a football." Max McGhee in the back of the room says "Coach, can you take it a little slower?" Well today we can't afford to take it slow. The African proverb says that each morning a gazell wakes up knowing it must outrun the speediest lion, or die. Each morning a lion wakes up knowing it must run faster than the slowest gazell, or it will starve.

Today, it's not about being the biggest, it's about being the quickest. I wait on the sidelines remembering that it has been six years since I first spoke of "The Plan - Five Points". Look what's happened since that day in Delaware when Jack Smith cut me off at the microphone as I tried to explain the "The Elephant Can Dance". Rather than witnessing a pachyderm pirouette, we are watching the end of an instinctual walk to the graveyard.

Your Friend in Flint,

Buickman

[Newbiewar]

For the Record I dont know what article this is about (but I know Jim wont let up in a friendly game of who's right and wrong), but let me clarify this forum, this site, and our reason for coming here...

i think as long as Jim is willing to have a conversation arguing the responsiblitys that should or shouldnt be taken upon management of one of the largest corperations in the world... we should take his knowledge for what its worth...

This website is about GM... what GM should do to improve itself... if you guys want to stab eachother in the heart until you hate GM, i think we are going the wrong direction. If you want to have a possitive and constructive input to what GM should or shouldnt be doing, there is a discussion allowed...

I know we all have been touched or involved with GM some how, otherwise we would not be visiting this site. I know that Some of us are ACTUALLY in the business and our lives depend on GM's management. I know that much of America depends on GM's management, including our children and our future. I know that some of us are outspoken and would like to help in some manner. This is why we purchase GM's stock, this is why we go to the Fastlane... This is why most of us will do what we can to convice our friends and family to purchase GM...

But if you want to squable about censorship... squable to the media, ask someone why GM's recall's or financial difficultys get about as much attention as monica lewinsky and clinton...

This site is about coming together to find a common goal, look at the title ^^ "Cheers and Gears fresh ideas for a better GM" So why are there so many personal attacks against dollinger? we all know what he wants, sometimes he goes about them poorly, if we want to be helpful, we should suggest corrections or how to implement his ideas in a more constructive mannor...

"Why Can't we all just get along?" - King

Edited April 7, 2006 by Newbiewar

[Croc]

Discussions are fine, repeated monologues that beat the same beat like a broken record are not.

[Guest Josh]

This site is about coming together to find a common goal, look at the title ^^ "Cheers and Gears fresh ideas for a better GM" So why are there so many personal attacks against dollinger? we all know what he wants, sometimes he goes about them poorly, if we want to be helpful, we should suggest corrections or how to implement his ideas in a more constructive mannor...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't have said it better.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Theres a difference between wanting a better GM, and coming here for self promotion. Big, big difference.

[hyperv6]

I do believe this site is a place to share and trade ideas or opinions and respect that.

I do not think we should attack someone because of their different veiw or opinion.

On the other hand if you have made your point and expresed it many times you don't need to go sticking in someones face multiple times. If you want respect you need to earn it not abuse it.

With freedom of speech come responsibility. So use it with care or lose it with abuse. This is not censoship anymore than preventing a drunk driver from getting behind the wheel of a car. You may have infringed on his right to drive but you also may have saved a life because of his abuse.

Also if you disagree on something ignore it and it will go away. The more you make of it the more it will get posted. Only your replys to what is posted keep some of these threads alive, ignore them they die!

Edited April 8, 2006 by hyperv6