Spindle Nut

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

As some of you know, I recently did my first brake job on the Mustang.

I pulled the spindle nut to replace the rotors and then re-installed the spindle nut.

Here's the catch: I merely tightened the spindle nut with a socket set instead of a torque wrench. I did this by letting a friend hold the socket and wrench and me almost standing on it. (literally) I'm 330lbs, so that's probably a lot of pressure. The official number is 258 ft/lbs.

So, should I pull the wheels off and use a torque wrench on the nuts? I can't get a straight answer from anyone. One mechanic says that EVERYTHING needs to be torqued, another mechanic and a guy at the parts house says just hand tighten everything.

[Drew Dowdell]

If the instructions from Ford say 258 ft-lb, then that's what you should do.

I found that when Ford calls for specific torque, they mean that specific torque... no more, no less.

[z28luvr01]

Well I'd immediately throw out the advice of the guy who says just to hand tighten it. I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks that hand tightening a spindle nut is sufficient.

Ford has a spec like that for a reason. If you have to, just go out and borrow a torque wrench from AutoZone for free.

[Satty]

I'm with Z. Any auto parts place worth a damn will loan you a torque wrench, better safe than sorry.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Well I'd immediately throw out the advice of the guy who says just to hand tighten it. I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks that hand tightening a spindle nut is sufficient.

Ford has a spec like that for a reason. If you have to, just go out and borrow a torque wrench from AutoZone for free.

Better yet, I've even heard some people say that the nut shouldn't be tightened at all. (a.k.a. "Back it off a bit")

I had planned to torque it, but it was a rush job and I didn't have a wrench. In the discussions/process of taking the wheels off again to tighten everything down, this 'great debate' came up.

On a related note, I've read a lot of horror stories of caliper bracket bolts backing out or flat out breaking and causing a lot of damage on Rangers and Exploders. Since the Mustang system is basically the same, that sent up some red flags to me as well. I found out that some manuals recommend replacing the caliper bracket bolts every time new pads are installed. I don't really buy that, but I'm definitely going to keep an eye on them, probably checking them each oil change.

Edited March 23, 2011 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[SAmadei]

If you have the torque wrench and a specific number, I'd torque it right... especially on something that is non-trivial (10 in-lbs? WTF, really GM?) and on a component that is going to take abuse.

Edit: I'm surprised that Ford is using a permanently packed bearing (hence the high torque... packable bearings are usually fairly loose with a cotter pin), but didn't think enough to make the rotors removable without removing the spindle nut.

Edited March 23, 2011 by SAmadei

[balthazar]

Better yet, I've even heard some people say that the nut shouldn't be tightened at all. (a.k.a. "Back it off a bit")

This instruction is for conventional caged bearings. Torque to spec, then back it off to the very next slot you can install the cotter pin, rather than make it tighter. You can't back off from a non-tightened nut.

[fightingbee]

On a related note, I've read a lot of horror stories of caliper bracket bolts backing out or flat out breaking and causing a lot of damage on Rangers and Exploders. Since the Mustang system is basically the same, that sent up some red flags to me as well. I found out that some manuals recommend replacing the caliper bracket bolts every time new pads are installed. I don't really buy that, but I'm definitely going to keep an eye on them, probably checking them each oil change.

The new bolts likely just have that pre-applied threadlocker stuff on to them. I think I would just clean them well and apply some new red grade threadlocker if you're real concerned about them.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

If you have the torque wrench and a specific number, I'd torque it right... especially on something that is non-trivial (10 in-lbs? WTF, really GM?) and on a component that is going to take abuse.

Edit: I'm surprised that Ford is using a permanently packed bearing (hence the high torque... packable bearings are usually fairly loose with a cotter pin), but didn't think enough to make the rotors removable without removing the spindle nut.

Interesting you bring that up...

Supposedly, the 2001 model year brought 'floating rotors' to the Mustang. So I was sure that I wouldn't have to remove the spindle nut. Come to find out; I was wrong. I guess maybe some of the later builds or maybe the 02s have that set up (?)

But hey, lets face it. The Mod Mustang (99-04) is basically a modified Fox Body, so the technology at it's core is antique, LOL.

Edited March 24, 2011 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

On a related note, I've read a lot of horror stories of caliper bracket bolts backing out or flat out breaking and causing a lot of damage on Rangers and Exploders. Since the Mustang system is basically the same, that sent up some red flags to me as well. I found out that some manuals recommend replacing the caliper bracket bolts every time new pads are installed. I don't really buy that, but I'm definitely going to keep an eye on them, probably checking them each oil change.

The new bolts likely just have that pre-applied threadlocker stuff on to them. I think I would just clean them well and apply some new red grade threadlocker if you're real concerned about them.

That was my plan. The bolts looked really good, so I figured they were fine. I can't help but be a worrier though, it's my nature.

[Intrepidation]

You should always torque nuts and bolts to the manufacturers specifications. Under or over torquing can cause serious problems.

The only thing I hand tighten is spark plugs, everything else is to spec.

[balthazar]

>>"The new bolts likely just have that pre-applied threadlocker stuff on to them."<<

'Threadlocker' compounds usually result in absurdly low TRQ specs. Was talking to a mechanic friend- he asked me what I thought (I forget which engine fasteners) would be torqued to. I guesstimated 200, but he said the factory spec with loctite was 19. May have been head bolts. While the mechanical assurance is valid, I suspect the proliferation of loctite compounds also shook out somewhere on the assembly time balance sheet.

[SAmadei]

>>"The new bolts likely just have that pre-applied threadlocker stuff on to them."<<

'Threadlocker' compounds usually result in absurdly low TRQ specs. Was talking to a mechanic friend- he asked me what I thought (I forget which engine fasteners) would be torqued to. I guesstimated 200, but he said the factory spec with loctite was 19. May have been head bolts. While the mechanical assurance is valid, I suspect the proliferation of loctite compounds also shook out somewhere on the assembly time balance sheet.

Well, keep in mind that threadlockers are essentially glue, and many cure anaerobically... so as soon as enough oxygen is mashed out of the threads, the compound cures... and further tightening is going to weaken the bond. Even with threadlockers that don't cure anaerobically, it can take some time to get some fasteners torqued up to 200+ ft/lbs... and the time and heat generated make it a race to bonding time. So in either case, I'm sure this results in the lower than expected torque values.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

So today I took the car apart again and put some super duper red thread lock on all the caliper and caliper bracket bolts. I'm still going to check them periodically because I don't trust them.

As for the spindle nuts; I couldn't get the wrench to break at all. I guess I just don't have the muscle to get 250 ft/lbs of torque on the nut. (Safely... I mean, I could wail on it and risk effing something up, but it was a $100 deposit for the wrench alone) All the same, the nut is still tight as hell. The only thing I can think is to maybe find someone with an air wrench.

It sucks that I'm having to do all of this in Charlotte where I have virtually no tools and few contacts.

I've already put probably over 200 miles on the car since the brake job itself and tightening the nuts.

Edited March 24, 2011 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[SAmadei]

As for the spindle nuts; I couldn't get the wrench to break at all. I guess I just don't have the muscle to get 250 ft/lbs of torque on the nut. (Safely... I mean, I could wail on it and risk effing something up, but it was a $100 deposit for the wrench alone) All the same, the nut is still tight as hell. The only thing I can think is to maybe find someone with an air wrench.

A good air wrench will get it off... but is no good to put it back on. Edit: Put on with an accurate torque.

I would get a length of pipe to put over the torque wrench. This will help your mechanical advantage without damaging the tool (assuming you aren't putting 1000+ ft-lbs on it.)

Edited March 24, 2011 by SAmadei