Where, Oh Where Did The Pontiac Owners Go?

[ZL-1]

The G8 had rebates, but your right, most Pontiacs only virtue was cheapness. You were marked down because Pontiac is still a sore subject for a few people who thought of the brand as a sacred cow. If you're interested you can read some of the old threads in the Pontiac forum, they get contentious. Also, look for the EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!! Thread in the lounge, its locked but still good for a laugh.

Why did you have to remind us of that thread? Rememebering that always brings up a sense of........ Exactly: EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!eleventy-billion

[Satty]

The G8 had rebates, but your right, most Pontiacs only virtue was cheapness. You were marked down because Pontiac is still a sore subject for a few people who thought of the brand as a sacred cow. If you're interested you can read some of the old threads in the Pontiac forum, they get contentious. Also, look for the EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!! Thread in the lounge, its locked but still good for a laugh.

Why did you have to remind us of that thread? Rememebering that always brings up a sense of........ Exactly: EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!eleventy-billion

Because epic thread was epic.

[Croc]

GRANDMA EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(click to enlarge)

Edited March 17, 2011 by Croc

[Drew Dowdell]

[Camino LS6]

Bottom line: The narrow appeal that GM offered with Pontiac was further diminished by killing Pontiac, and none of what was good about the brand has been replaced.

Net result?

GM fades from my radar screen.

Wish it was otherwise.

[balthazar]

I have to agree with most of SAmdei's general rant- and just about all of you are north of me in size. It's not so much 'fitting' in a given car, it's the ability to move around some. Seat bolsters are great for canyon-carving, but you are forced to sit in one position. Consoles are 'sporty' and hold all your junk, but they're intrusive and inhibit knee room. Laid-back windshields are great for CAFE-dynamics, but it brings the angle up even with your head, and once inside, the tumblehome is just beyond your ear.

My knees get stiff (movie theater- aisle seat only), and I need to flex during longer drives. Some of the vintage stuff I drove in the past was GREAT in this manner- more vertical glass, higher roofline, no hulking console, more overall ROOM. I prefer it. Modern 'mid-sized' cars without a doubt will keep me in trucks for the foreseeable future.

[ZL-1]

[ZL-1]

Because epic thread was epic.

Aha! I see! Epic EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!eleventy-billion

[hyperv6]

I have to agree with most of SAmdei's general rant- and just about all of you are north of me in size. It's not so much 'fitting' in a given car, it's the ability to move around some. Seat bolsters are great for canyon-carving, but you are forced to sit in one position. Consoles are 'sporty' and hold all your junk, but they're intrusive and inhibit knee room. Laid-back windshields are great for CAFE-dynamics, but it brings the angle up even with your head, and once inside, the tumblehome is just beyond your ear.

My knees get stiff (movie theater- aisle seat only), and I need to flex during longer drives. Some of the vintage stuff I drove in the past was GREAT in this manner- more vertical glass, higher roofline, no hulking console, more overall ROOM. I prefer it. Modern 'mid-sized' cars without a doubt will keep me in trucks for the foreseeable future.

I was in a new SHO the other day. While it is a faily large interior the dash and console made me claustrophobic. While no were as bad as a H1 Hummer it did give me that same ffeeling. I am right at 6' and under 200 pounds. I can't imagine anyone larger feeling good in the front seat of that car.

[hyperv6]

I see I got some negative number for saying that people bought pontiacs because they were cheap? Let me guess, the 40,000 G8s that sold retail with no rebates completely outweighs the 500,000 G6es sold with $5,000 on the hood?

Don't sweat the votes. You are correct many were sold with great rebates. I had G8 here advertised in the paper at $23,800. The G6 were fire sale price to the point I had 3 non GM owning co workers buy them based on price. They walked away from Ford and Toyota because they got more car for less money.

The price on the G8 almost made me move but I worried about resale with the loss of Pontiac or if Chevy got it later. So far resale is really good on them.

[Intrepidation]

For the record, I'm 6'4" and 400 and change... not Andre by a longshot, but I'm closer than you guys apparently. I am very broad at the shoulder and have around 81" of reach. I'm more torso, with somewhat shorter legs (still long, though)... if my legs were in in a normal average ratio to my torso, I'd be roughly 6'9 6'10". I certainly can stand to lose some weight, but the gut disappears at roughly 325, so I'm husky, not super flabby. I'm also somewhat claustrophobic if I'm in a space which limits my limb movement.

I don't consider myself to be freakishly large... cars USED to be designed for people my size.

The problem here is unlike you guys, I was not conditioned on modern, small cars. My cars historically have been large '60s and '70s or '80s B-bods... which I fit in fine. I can move around in these cars... swing my arms around if need be, adjust my position, etc. Bonneville, DTS, Concorde, GP coupe are all tightish, but acceptable.

Apparently, you guys are used to being in a tight car and considering it comfortable. I don't.

"Comfort" to me is simply not fitting into the car. I "fit" in a Mini. I "fit" in a Corolla... but it usually entails sitting slouched, crooked or unable to belt myself without hanging out the door. However, simply fitting is not comfortable. Driving the Corolla involves having my right leg in a convoluted position that aggravates my right knee and ankle. Getting in and out of the car is a major project of folding arms, legs and torso. I have to sit so far reclined I cannot use the arm rest, instead I have to angle over the passenger due to the B-pillar protrusion.

I'm getting too old to drive an car in a uncomfortable position for long periods.

Also, its nice to be able to enjoy the luxury of having a passenger behind me... thats why I bought that seat, right? Few people can sit behind me in any car.

Surprising cars:

Mini. Passenger side wasn't bad... driver's side seat track is slightly more forward, which hurts the rearward travel... and crunches my legs painfully.

Smart car. Fit fine. Its not that small of a car, because its a two-door and have no space wasting, useless rear seat.

Sunfire coupe. Seat track and recline is awful, but at least climbing out of car is not a folding struggle.

Problem cars:

The F'ing Corolla. Looking forward to GF buying something else... but its better than similar sized domestics. Usually don't have to drive this abomination. I am currently looking into fabricating hardware to shift the seat tracks rearward. Since this car has no real trunk, anytime we have to put something large in the back seat, I no longer can recline and I have to tilt over towards the other front seat occupant... hence shoulder in their face.

Focus. Got out and preferred the Corolla.

G6 sedan. Dreadful. Repeatedly smashed controls while trying to reach around interior. Was most comfortable driving with the top of my head out the open sunroof.

Malibu. Same as G6... returned to rental office for DTS.

Solstice. Got wedged after being egged on and required 3-4 people to help get me out. Will not retry that.

Grand Prix, Impala. Have to sit canted towards center of car due to lack of seat travel, B pillar and forced height.

G8. Driver's seat painfully tight. Passenger seat, I could not occupy due to limited seat travel. GTO had similar problems. This is simply bad engineering, just like the Impala/GP.

M3. Damaged steering wheel tilt mechanism while trying to get leg under wheel while not smashing head on roof. Hit rev limiter trying to get out. Unable to steer car at 10 and 2 without hitting elbows into window/door/passenger... this was a problem, as it was enforced by the instructor. I recall there being some other major issues, though.

Camaro. Major headroom problems. Adjusting seat still required reclining... and was not comfortable with regard to the steering wheel distance.

Mustang. Had to sit somewhat sideways, which drove knees into center console, due to me being a passenger in a stick car. Professional race driver didn't like me encroaching on his space due high speed maneuvers on the track.

I complain about car sizing only because we have LOST the luxury of space, and soon NO car will be comfortable to me. Cars have gotten taller and, longer in wheelbase, and yet still headroom has shrunk, seat tracks don't go back far enough, and back seats have become a joke. My feeling is that cars are being designed to women's proportions... who like to sit higher and closer to the wheel... unfortunately, its easier for a small person to fit in a large car than the opposite.

I owned a `71 Sedan Deville briefly. It was so large outside it had its own zip code. You could land aircraft on its hood. Cars don't get much larger than that. It was a neat car but has nothing on comfort compared to my car.

The seats in my car are supportive and extremely comfortable, the front seat goes so far back that its actually a bit too far for my legs all the way back, and even so I can sit behind myself and my knees are nowhere near the back of the front seat. Sure a bench seat lets you move around (especially when the road starts to bend, whether you want to or not), but truly good seats won't make you uncomfortable if you sit in the same position. The pedals are right where they should be, the steering is well weighted and has feedback. Sure there's a certain novelty to overboosted steering so light you can turn it with your pinky, but on a curvy road I want something quick, precise, well weighted, and has feedback. In fact the only thing that would make it better would be if the steering wheel telescoped so could bring it a bit closer to me and had infinite tilt adjustments VS the 5 or so stepped ones.

Hell, I remember that `76 (IIRC) LeSabre I looked after for a bit before FlyBrian bought it. Despite its massive size The seats couldn't go far back enough for me to be comfortable.

I can get plenty comfortable in a smaller car, the difference is the people in back suffer VS in my Intrepid or say a Charger. But then I don't normally haul more than myself and a passenger, so I wouldn't need to be concerned about size. If I need to haul, more people around I already have a big car. That's how I look at it.

[Croc]

Heh, if center consoles will lead the crusade against the American obesity epidemic, they can't be that bad now can they?

[Satty]

Heh, if center consoles will lead the crusade against the American obesity epidemic, they can't be that bad now can they?

So true

[SAmadei]

I owned a `71 Sedan Deville briefly. It was so large outside it had its own zip code. You could land aircraft on its hood. Cars don't get much larger than that. It was a neat car but has nothing on comfort compared to my car.

Snip!

Hell, I remember that `76 (IIRC) LeSabre I looked after for a bit before FlyBrian bought it. Despite its massive size The seats couldn't go far back enough for me to be comfortable.

Some people free "comfort" is a sculpted seat, which most near makes have. My rear is a size too large (and not cushy enough to make up for it) to work with the average sculpting. I like the one size fits all of bench seats.

Also, you are riding a '71 decades after it came out... I imagine the seating materials' characteristics have changed over the years.

As for the '76, well, not everything is a winner, regardless of size. Its been commented many times that the downsized '77-on B-bods actually had better space than the fuselage '71-'76 models.

I can get plenty comfortable in a smaller car, the difference is the people in back suffer VS in my Intrepid or say a Charger. But then I don't normally haul more than myself and a passenger, so I wouldn't need to be concerned about size. If I need to haul, more people around I already have a big car. That's how I look at it.

Well, you do have a big car. Think you can keep it forever? I mean, we're all optimistic that we can, but doing so it sometimes difficult. What will you replace it with if FIAT shrinks the Charger/300 further? GM has nothing to compare to the Chrysler LX cars.

Personally, I felt the LH's were a tad tight... except the LHS/Concorde.

[Lamar]

Personally, I felt the LH's were a tad tight... except the LHS/Concorde.

Really? I thought my wife's old Intrepid had the most spacious back seat of any sedan I ever sat in. And that's with the driver's seat positioned where I like it (read: almost all the way back).