XTS Spy Shots

[z28luvr01]

clicky

Actually doesn't look bad. Love the wheels. This clearly isn't going after the blue hair DTS crowd.

[Drew Dowdell]

I like what I see so far.

[Camino LS6]

Insufficient data to give a meaningful response.

Sure hope it improves on the showcar.

[Intrepidation]

Those wheels look familiar. I approve.

Interior looks to be very, very nice.

[Northstar]

I think this car needs to be a Buick, but perhaps that change will take place when a real S-Class fighter is made in the future.

[Robert Hall]

Weak FWD proportions, unfortunately. Nose is too short w/ the short wheel to door distance. I guess this is just filler until they build a real flagship.

[hyperv6]

I have nothing bad to say yet. Too much is covered to be fair. The wheels are cool.

I just wonder what kind of power we will see here and how appealing it will be to buyers.

[ZL-1]

I like the overall theme of the interior. But even without seeing the finished products, I am 1005 sure I'd pick the ATS over this car.

EDIT - The wheels do look nice!

Edited March 11, 2011 by ZL-1

[Croc]

I don't get this car, and I don't get why it's a Cadillac. We already have a LaCrosse...do we need a "big" Cadillac too?? Muddled brand positioning.

[ocnblu]

Right now the best looking Epsilon II car is the SAAB 9-5, so Cadillac has a ways to go to improve on that car's road presence. I hope this car has some more width built in than the LaCrosse. It's not bad looking so far, but I hope the front overhang is not as pronounced and droopy as the SRX in an effort to make up for the tiny front door-to-wheel gap. And a giant trunk would be appreciated. Interior looks very promising from here.

[frogger]

With tires that low profile it needs less wheel gap but it's still early going.

[smk4565]

Looks like a big, sensory deprivation tank with sizable overhangs. The interior shape is a bit similar to the DTS, but with the A/C vents on top of the center stack. The wheels are probably just for the test car, unlikely that wheels like that with low profile tires would be fitted on a car like this. This car looks DTS size, with a more upright front end and the grille looks STS-like. So far I see a car for 70 year olds.

when a real S-Class fighter is made in the future.

IF.

[hyperv6]

Well this car can not be comnpared to the LaCrosse. It will feature content and items not available in a Buick. Nor would Buick be able to offer the same items at a similar price to their line of cars. I think the content of this car will set it appart from anything Buick will have. I expect to see items in this car not seen on any other GM or competitor cars.

Also from the photos [i know it is hard to judge from a photo] the car appears longer and wider than the Buick There is no reason GM could not stretch the platform is both ways. It does have some flexibility.

I do like the dash as it screams Cadillac in a very nice way. It has a modern art deco look about it like Harley Earl would would to if he was still around.

[ocnblu]

I like the echos of the Cadillac crest shape in the dash, nice attitude.

[smk4565]

Well this car can not be comnpared to the LaCrosse. It will feature content and items not available in a Buick. Nor would Buick be able to offer the same items at a similar price to their line of cars. I think the content of this car will set it appart from anything Buick will have. I expect to see items in this car not seen on any other GM or competitor cars.

The same could be said about the Escalade and Tahoe. The content and price point is different, but underneath it is the same. LaCrosse/XTS is just like a modernized version of Lucerne/DTS. Improved version of an old formula, but not the path to save Cadillac.

[Croc]

I'd rather have a large flagship Buick that offers all of these features for $60k, with a proper large RWD Cadillac with the creme de la creme at $80-$110k

[pow]

I think I'll prefer the Saab version, but this will probably sell exponentially better.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Looks like the rear deck is longer...

[Robert Hall]

I wonder if this will be on the same short wheelbase as the LaCrosse, or get a longer wheelbase?

Edited March 12, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

it has been said more than once that ESP II is a longer wheelbase, including by Welburn. This has been posted here repeatedly.

What I don't care for as much is the taller side glass vs. the concept. It may just be the height of the beltline tho.

Too much camo to tell much of anything.

[§carlet §wordfish]

I'm with the "too much camo to say anything meaningful" peeps.

[CSpec]

The interior looks pretty nice, but I suspect this car will be fairly lame.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm very curious about what power train it will use.

[Chris_Doane]

I'm very curious about what power train it will use.

3.6L base, TT V6 for upmarket. Some sort of hybrid in there as well.

[William Maley]

I'm with the "too much camo to say anything meaningful" peeps.

Ditto, camo is covering too much to for me give a thought about this..

One thing, When I walk into a Cadillac dealer, will I be able to order the XTS with the camo pkg?

[Z-06]

I'm very curious about what power train it will use.

3.6L base, TT V6 for upmarket. Some sort of hybrid in there as well.

3.6 Gen 2? Which V6 TT?

[Chris_Doane]

3.6 Gen 2?

Don't know.

Which V6 TT?

3.0L

[hyperv6]

3.6 Gen 2?

Don't know.

Which V6 TT?

3.0L

I had not heard day TT but it I was hoping they would at least offer the 3.0 TT or what ever TT they would have at release. This would have much more appeal for a buyer in this class. It also makes sense of the Brembo's on the front. With AWD it may be a intersting package.

Can you give us any idea how much larger this car is over the Buick? I suspect it is longer and a little wider from what you can see.

[Chris_Doane]

Can you give us any idea how much larger this car is over the Buick?

Nope. I have yet to see one in person.

[smk4565]

I also think the 3.6 V6 out of the Lacrosse and eAssist or hybrid option. I could see them in the second model year offering a turbo V6 on the AWD version to compete with the MKS ecoboost. Although I think the demographic buying this car doesn't care that much about speed, unless they are looking to get people trading in 300C's.

[loki]

i know the..3rd? pic is taken low, but, ugh, very high rear. what is it with limiting the rear view?

[deftonesfan867]

Looks like a big, sensory deprivation tank with sizable overhangs. The interior shape is a bit similar to the DTS, but with the A/C vents on top of the center stack. The wheels are probably just for the test car, unlikely that wheels like that with low profile tires would be fitted on a car like this. This car looks DTS size, with a more upright front end and the grille looks STS-like. So far I see a car for 70 year olds.

when a real S-Class fighter is made in the future.

IF.

Yes because a car made for old folks will have Brembo brakes on it...

Do you ever grow tired of talking out of your ass or have you just learned to accept your limited intelligence?

[ocnblu]

I hope to be pleasantly surprised by this car when it is finished and in the showrooms. It's happened to me before. The Buick Verano, for example, was meh in the China photos, but wow in the US ones.

I guess the XTS will not be a complete post-bankruptcy car for Cadillac, as Epsilon II was coming through before, but maybe they've made enough changes that it'll show in a car unfettered by financial doldrums within the corporation.

I'm going to mellow out about the XTS because I have faith this is not a flagship for the brand, but a car targeted at a certain customer with money to spend. Nothing wrong with that.

[z28luvr01]

If you look at the lengths of the doors - the car appears to be significantly longer than the LaCrosse, and probably bigger inside than what could be achieved by the current Sigma.

I honetly see this car as a transition vehicle for Cadillac - one that paves the way for a true flagship. This will retain some but not all of the traditional DTS customers, but will also pick up new customers that the DTS could only dream about, espcially if Caddy dials in the handling/steering/etc to be anywhere close to its rear drive competitione.

[hyperv6]

To help judge size based on things we know in the photos how large they are this car leaves me with the impression that it may be similar to the size of as a new Taurus. That also would place it similar in size as the Lincoln.

The hood and trunk will get lower as they are padded. The rear deck lid is using a light spoiler on the rear edge that looks similar to the CTS V coupes light. The cover is held up for that.

I think most will be fine with this car. I know there will be things that we all would like that it will not get but it will still be a great improvment over the present DTS and in many ways the STS. This is not the flagship so it is not the ultimate Caddy, yet it still will be a very good car for many in this price class.

I too felt the new small Buick was a silly little car but was shock at how nice it really is. Just something about seeing a car in person that brings the reality of what it is home that a photo let alone a camo photo just can't do. GM is not going to home run every car but the good solid hit do add up to runs in the end.

[Drew Dowdell]

I was really hoping for the 2-mode as the default engine for this car. It would be something that sets it apart from most of the other big-lux

[ocnblu]

Is there evidence that luxury buyers are interested in hybrids? Lexus is the (semi) luxury brand that googles "hybrid" the most in my mind, and we've seen some failure there.

[Drew Dowdell]

Is there evidence that luxury buyers are interested in hybrids? Lexus is the (semi) luxury brand that googles "hybrid" the most in my mind, and we've seen some failure there.

I'm thinking of the future. It's going to be 12 to 18 months before this thing is released. If we have a sustained period of $3.60+ a gallon gasoline, a no compromises hybrid like the 2-mode could gain some real traction in the market.

After a week of driving the Volt, I am convinced that electric as the primary motive power is the future. In a car like this where silence is golden, it's a no-brainer.

[ocnblu]

Well, thinking of the past, and the last time we had $4 gasoline, luxury hybrids were available, yet it was chintzy hybrids, like the Prius, that sold well. Someone correct me please if I am wrong, but I don't believe luxury hybrids picked up much in sales then. In fact, through this whole economic downturn, real luxury cars have sold comparatively well, illustrating the insulation richer people generally enjoy during recession... while middle class and poorer folks reel, finding it necessary to change their habits.

Edited March 13, 2011 by ocnblu

[smk4565]

Hybrid on the base model would drive the price up too much. And there may be some in the older demographic that get confused by the "electronic mumbo jumbo." And they've probably looked at hybrid vs regular sales of the Escalade, MKZ, Lexus GS, RX, etc and found that most buyers still opt for the gas only version. Problem with hybrids on luxury cars is hybrids often take 5-7 years to pay back, and many people lease luxury cars for 3 years.

[Drew Dowdell]

Well, thinking of the past, and the last time we had $4 gasoline, luxury hybrids were available, yet it was chintzy hybrids, like the Prius, that sold well. Someone correct me please if I am wrong, but I don't believe luxury hybrids picked up much in sales then. In fact, through this whole economic downturn, real luxury cars have sold comparatively well, illustrating the insulation richer people generally enjoy during recession... while middle class and poorer folks reel, finding it necessary to change their habits.

The RX-H does a decent business. The LS-H and the Escalade Hybrid sell terrible because there is a huge price premium (and in the case of the Lexus, an insufficient boost in fuel economy) over their regular model.

Gas prices could go to $5.00 a gallon and the Lexus HS200SEVIIWEvb - whatever - hybrid would still sell mediocre because it doesn't have a luxury feel but it does have a luxury price.

The one to watch is the MKZ Hybrid. When you offer people the choice of engines with no cost difference like Lincoln is doing, 24% are picking the hybrid model. The Hybrid isn't available in AWD form, so if you remove AWD sales (because not having AWD could be a deal breaker for some people) the percentage of FWD Hybrid v. FWD Gas goes even higher.

However, Lincoln F-ed up the experiment by offering incentives on the MKZ, but only for the gas model. The incentives are enough that you can lease a gas model for $100 a month less than the hybrid.

[ocnblu]

The gas model is the most desirable. Even with price parity, the hybrid asks the customer to pay a hellish price for complexity (I cannot imagine paying for some of these systems if they go bad out of warranty, the car becomes throwaway post warranty) and environmental harm due to mining. I believe we have enough oil to last us, and these price spikes are artificial, politically motivated (not by our president in particular, but worldwide). Conservation of oil, not abandonment of oil is the secret. Tapping some of our own resources. A plug-in hybrid still consumes energy indirectly through the power companies, a lot of which burn coal, or ruin the environment in other ways, like damming rivers. Sun and wind. Cover your factory roofs with solar panels, your hills with windmills above the trees. Why not.

Edited March 13, 2011 by ocnblu

[Drew Dowdell]

The gas model is the most desirable. Even with price parity, the hybrid asks the customer to pay a hellish price for complexity (I cannot imagine paying for some of these systems if they go bad out of warranty, the car becomes throwaway post warranty) and environmental harm due to mining. I believe we have enough oil to last us, and these price spikes are artificial, politically motivated (not by our president in particular, but worldwide). Conservation of oil, not abandonment of oil is the secret. Tapping some of our own resources. A plug-in hybrid still consumes energy indirectly through the power companies, a lot of which burn coal, or ruin the environment in other ways, like damming rivers. Sun and wind. Cover your factory roofs with solar panels, your hills with windmills above the trees. Why not.

Electric is the ultimate flex fuel.

[hyperv6]

I don't see Hybrids going into the future so much as a sales ploy as in the past. I see it as a way to keep offering larger comfortable cars while still improving fleet CAFE for the MFG who wants to give the people the kind of car they really want.

As a MPG sales ploy they are a failure as owners of these cars just don't care as much as most other owners. With luxury cars it is not so much about MPG for the owners but more about better MPG for Cadillac. If they can make the technology seemless as so the owners don't really notice it will work.

As CAFE goes up it will be more and more difficult to offer large powerful cars without some kind of help.

[caddycruiser]

Likey.

From the other forum, expect the latest updated version of the 3.6L, the Twin Turbo 3.0L, and 2-mode Hybrid.

FWD/AWD, etc. if detailed correctly, named correctly, and marketed, it should sell. Despite what many of us think about the current SRX, it wasn't until the current model that people actually got interested and started buying them in droves. This car with power, AWD, etc. hopefully will do similarly, the only question being price. Lots of Tech, styling many who have seen still proclaim is stunning despite what it may seen in camo, and AWD, V6, turbo V6, etc.

Shall see. Like.

[ocnblu]

To hyper: then CAFE should be reexamined. 30 mpg fleet average is high enough, and these calculation loopholes that give some companies a competitive advantage need to be locked shut. Let the market pick up where government leaves off.

Getting back to the Cadillac XTS and its powertrain, I like the idea of the 3.6L being standard, with V6 TT and hybrid powertrains as options. Forcing a hybrid powertrain on luxury customers is suicide, imo.

Edited March 13, 2011 by ocnblu

[smk4565]

I agree with oncblu's last 2 posts. I think hyper is right also that hybrids have been used as a bit of a sales ploy. But luxury buyers for the most part aren't as concerned with fuel economy. Plus look at the demographic that Cadillac and Lexus go for, the baby boomers and older living in big houses with big electric and gas bills. This isn't a generation particularly concerned with environmental impact. Gen X and Gen Y on the other hand for the most part don't car about the McMansions and are more into living "green" and urban lifestyle and less is more and all that.

I think hybrid, diesel, electric would play better with 20 and 30 somethings rather than 60+ years old, and the XTS is a 60+ year old kind of car. Cadillac is better off putting their hybrid, diesel, electric technology into an ATS rather than an XTS.

[Drew Dowdell]

Electric gives you maximum torque at zero RPM. It's that kind of thrust that will make hybrids more viable in future and electrics the future. It's only a matter of time.... and I say that entirely from my experience in electric vehicle 1.0 Volt.

[hyperv6]

To hyper: then CAFE should be reexamined. 30 mpg fleet average is high enough, and these calculation loopholes that give some companies a competitive advantage need to be locked shut. Let the market pick up where government leaves off.

Getting back to the Cadillac XTS and its powertrain, I like the idea of the 3.6L being standard, with V6 TT and hybrid powertrains as options. Forcing a hybrid powertrain on luxury customers is suicide, imo.

No argument there. Companies that make Large luxury or perfromace cars and small economy cars have a great advantage over companies that just make larger luxury cars. This is why we see cars like the Verano being tried. It is also why Aston Martin is now making a Toyota based small car. The way the rules are written it is a mess. I see little chance of it changing as the goverment is now.

Given the rules they have to work in building cars today is like building a car with one hand tied behind you back. You meet the goverments needs and you lose customers. You build a car to fit the customers wants you lose CAFE. The trucks are in the same place too. There is no easy out other than either finding a ways to change the rules or building these Frankenstein system. Right now the odd systems are easier than changing the goverment rules.

I expect the 3.6 would be standard and a TT v6 as a option on a Platinum edition.

The Hybird system is not suicide as at at least they can build a car that will work for most. The other choice is smaller cars with even smaller engines to meet CAFE. That is Suicide.

This is why for years we have heard auto leaders say raising the gas tax would be more self regulating and make it easier to give the people what they want. But what elected official is going to call for a large gas tax increase let alone one where gas is already near or at $4.

[hyperv6]

Electric gives you maximum torque at zero RPM. It's that kind of thrust that will make hybrids more viable in future and electrics the future. It's only a matter of time.... and I say that entirely from my experience in electric vehicle 1.0 Volt.

I have only drive a few of these newer system so I am not up on the latest like on the new LaCrosse. I do find the systems that shut off at lights a little annoying [just my take]. But as time rolls on I think they will make and find systems that will work well and most people will never know they are there. It is kind of like the 8-6-4 Cadillac. It was a mess but today the same idea works and you really can't tell what it is doing. I have many miles with the Chevy truck and Camaro with this system.

I think we will see a lot of things tried by a despereate industry. If gas remains high buyers will also be more accpeting.

The real issues is as things get even more complicated how we we repair these cars and afford to keep them running. The day is coming there will be few cars over 10 years old on the road.