Small change to the Politics section

[Drew Dowdell]

Since the Politics section seems to be the most active forum on the website right now... and it's not related to automotive news... a small restriction has been put in place.

In order to enter the Politics forum, you must make at least 5 posts in any other forum in the previous 24 hours before you will be permitted to post in Politics.

No one, not even myself nor the other Admins are exempted from this rule.

This also presumes that you already have access to Politics.

-DD

[§carlet §wordfish]

I think this will be good for our collective blood pressure.

[Satty]

Have you considered making C&G a political forum with an automotive section?

[Drew Dowdell]

Yes.

[Satty]

Actually an open politics forum could drive traffic up to the auto boards, but as the last couple years have shown, some people can't keep theory political bias in check and it spills over into the other sections.

[Drew Dowdell]

I considered many different things for C&G recently since very few people are posting anymore.

[Satty]

There isn't much in the way it discussion anymore, every thread seems to follow the same formula, the same half dozen or so people post the most predictable things and that's about it. New members seem to be non-existent. I'm thinking it has a least a little to do with cars becoming a secondary concern to even the most diehard car fans due to economic stress. It can't help that most of the news the last few years has been about the books instead of the cars.

[Intrepidation]

I don't think its that enthusiasts have given up. I mean look at smaller forums like LHF, which mainly discuss one platform. They have less than 1/4 the members we do yet there's always discussions, not only about our cars but about what's happening in the automotive industry, news, and so on.

For whatever reason people don't seem to post here. And maybe it is because the same 10 or so people are basically regurgitating the same opinions in every thread and there's no fresh opinions. I don't know. It sure would be nice to see new posts and different thoughts, insights, and opinions.

[Satty]

Our core membership became a bit divided during election '08 and some people seem to be clinging to the Us vs. Them mentality

[Justin Bimmer]

I'm trying to post more. Trial has been hardcore.

[Intrepidation]

Well certainly personal lives make an impact. I know Drew's swamped with work and I barely have the energy to stay up after a 10 hour day at work. There's just so little time.

But even so...it goes deeper than that.

[Croc]

There isn't much in the way it discussion anymore, every thread seems to follow the same formula, the same half dozen or so people post the most predictable things and that's about it. New members seem to be non-existent. I'm thinking it has a least a little to do with cars becoming a secondary concern to even the most diehard car fans due to economic stress. It can't help that most of the news the last few years has been about the books instead of the cars.

I have to agree with this. I would say that yes, every thread follows a formula: news is posted, most members are excited, then smk posts and a mini-flame war erupts, then certain old-timers post their negative, doom-and-gloom posts and essentially kill the thread after childishly nitpicking whatever to death. It gets old.

Our core membership became a bit divided during election '08 and some people seem to be clinging to the Us vs. Them mentality

Eh...I think Pontiac had more to do with it. There are, IMO only two partisan hacks on this board. I may disagree with regfootball, but he at least makes some sense some of the time.

[loki]

the variety of makes and models has dwindled....in the last year.

maybe it is the lack of new blood that has made this place stale.

[Z-06]

Good move there. I was really getting tired of the political talks going on. We come here for car information, politics can be found somewhere else on the web.

[siegen]

I don't post 5 times/24 hours very often, if at all. My lifetime average is 1.51/day. :[

I've noticed posting has declined. I haven't posted as much over the last year or so. I've been mostly dispassionate about cars during this time. All I can think about now is trading-in my car for something that I will have more confidence in. This spring likely. Can't wait to test drive '12 Civic Si. Maybe if I get it I will post more Honda propaganda and livin' things up a bit. ;]

[ocnblu]

Well I come in for a while in the morning and a while in the evening, during the work week. Weekends I spend a bit more time here. I wasn't here atall last evening, and there were two pages of new stuff to peruse this a.m., since yesterday a.m., not too bad, imo.

And I agree with Z-06. I am content to be locked out of Politics.

Loss of Pontiac did take some wind out of my sails as far as car enthusiasm goes. GM was without a plan to make up for that at other divisions and I think it was a snap decision in the midst of bankruptcy, imo, so things haven't been particularly exciting. There are some signs of life, things like the Verano Turbo and new compact truck that will garner some discussion, I'm sure. Sonic's sales intro... post-bankruptcy GM is still in the awakening stage.

[Camino LS6]

Lots of factors involved here.

I would point to the lack of interesting cars entering the market and the tighter control of information on upcoming product as root causes. That said, many other things are contibuting factors.

I do think that the 5 post minumum thing is somewhat absurd, and possibly counter-productive.

[balthazar]

I've seen other boards, for EX, use a 25 post min until you can post to their classified- which makes sense with some of the 'spammer hawkers' out there if you have a focused site, but not sure what a 5-post min until posting in politics would filter out.

[Satty]

I don't think the point is to filter anything out, but to increase posting on the other boards.

[Z-06]

Lots of factors involved here.

I would point to the lack of interesting cars entering the market and the tighter control of information on upcoming product as root causes. That said, many other things are contibuting factors.

I do think that the 5 post minumum thing is somewhat absurd, and possibly counter-productive.

Camino, I think the main reason DD is going there is because we see more posts in Political section than the automobiles. Granted that there is no excitement to be found recently in that category.

There were some great ideological threads in the section when it came to making America stronger where almost all the members agreed to a consensus. But most threads have been bickering, with nothing constructive coming out. It just feels like a bigger ax is brought to slay other person every time a post is made, making it into a Pyhrric moral victory for either side.

While people like to be rebellious, somehow when it comes to solving social and economic problems they follow rules of political game. Time has come that Democracy should be getting rid of politicians and have real "leaders", which are a rare and endangered species, stand up. We at cheers and gears are intelligent bunch and should be moving away from political restriction and affiliation while attacking a problem, which sadly is not the case as seen in the political forum and hence I support the move.

[Camino LS6]

Attempting to increase postings in other areas by limiting posting in an active area seems artificial and pointless to me. Working to create a bigger draw in the rest of the forums would be a more logical approach in my view.

It is a political time and passions run deep - that's just reality right now.

[Robert Hall]

The posting volume in the word association and car spotter threads will go up.

[Camino LS6]

The posting volume in the word association and car spotter threads will go up.

Yes, pointless posting to reach a minimum - not what I'd call a good result.

[Drew Dowdell]

We have a large draw. We have very steady traffic of 65 - 95 people online at any given time. Our posts don't reflect that level of traffic.

Politics is the "dessert" part of the site. It's there for the old members who have been visiting since the beginning to go in and debate other stuff because we already know each other. However, and I am just as guilty of this, there are some who post is politics and no where else on a given day.

No dessert until you eat your meat and potatoes.

Look at it another way Camino. Right now this site is nothing but a blog with 4 or 5 members posting new threads and then a few people commenting on them. It seems that very few are interested in helping out any more. I opened up moderator positions and 4 people stepped forward.

If we're going to continue down that path, then so be it. I'll turn C&G into a blog. The software would be free as opposed to $200 a year, the hosting would go from $100 a month to $9.00 a month, and the page views would likely remain the same making C&G nicely profitable for me.

If you're interested in keeping the automotive forums around... post in them... make new threads. But if you're not interested in posting, then I don't see any further point in continuing C&G as is.

[Camino LS6]

I did offer on the mod thing - no response there.

A re-make may in fact be in order, but dumping the forums might not be necessary.

Whenever something of note happens, we get long threads full of discussion. The problem is that not much noteworty happens much of the time. GM has been really quiet for some time now so there just isn't all that much to talk about.

Perhaps the focus on "new" stuff is too limiting, maybe a bit more of older stuff within the brand forums would wake things up. I can think of plenty of other things that could liven-up the forums.

- Remember when we did our trivia contests on a regular basis?

- Getting the design forum to be a bit more active really helps too.

- Most of all, more C&G-generated articles would make a difference.

Plenty of other ideas out there, I'm sure.

As for the politics forum, ther are only about a half-dozen of us who use it - so why bother with a restriction?

[Intrepidation]

Maybe our problem is that we aren't focused enough. Forums with a specific focus and direction have very active communities. LHF has about 1/3 our membership yet more than 2/3 our total posts.

Then again, what I liked about C&G and one of the reasons I joined is because I could get up to date news from around the industry (not just GM) and not have to go to 20 other sites to get it.

I agree getting the design forum going and keeping it going would help. If we keep them regular and keep advertising for it, maybe we can get some new members that way.

[Croc]

Honestly, as much "clutter" as there was with duplicates, we need regular automotive news posting here. I'd rather have too many news posts that need merging versus not enough to sustain discussion.

[ocnblu]

Yeah, where'd 98 go?

[Drew Dowdell]

The news feeder was bad for the site in multiple ways, most of them technical.

One thing we are NOT is the forum section for autoblog and that's what newfeeder turned us into.

When I put work into an original article and get 3 replies... it's a bit demotivating. MudMonster is helping out a lot and you guys should read his posts and comment.

DF... does LHforums just do an autoblog dump? What new news is there for the LH platform lately... yet they still get frequent posts.

[William Maley]

Mudmonster is helping out a lot and you guys should read his posts and comment.

Thanks DD

I know people are reading the stuff I post here on C&G, I see the view number when I check on my stuff. Every single thing I post, I'm not expecting a comment. But when someone does comment, that kind of makes my day.

[Croc]

I click on "View New Content" and rarely do I get more than a few topics showing up at a time, and the vast majority aren't news.

Until we get regular, daily original articles based on the news of the day, I honestly would prefer to have an autoblog dump. At least I'd be getting news in one stop on the net instead of multiple.

[frogger]

I think the sheer number of forum sections may overwhelm new users and lurkers who are not using tools like view new posts or don't want to post a thread in a section that hasn't had one in a month or more. IMO you could get by with one flat section for other makes and consolidate a slew of others.

I have no interest in reading or posting on politics.. Things are so polarized now it's ridiculous. The news link posts are only interesting if whomever posts them gives their opinion to stimulate discussion which doesn't get lost in too much of the article being pasted.

Just some thoughts

[Robert Hall]

I just discovered the new rule prevents you from even entering the politics forum to browse w/o the 5 posts. That is just plain stupid. I can understand restricting posting, but just viewing the forum?

[ocnblu]

Maybe another forum reorganization is called for. In agreeance with frogger, since this is still primarily a GM site, perhaps just separating the GM brands in one section, but then lumping Ford Motor Company (including Mercury), Chrysler Corporation, US startups, the Asian and European brands into one section each will cut down on fragmentation for newer users. It would simplify viewing for us hoary old dudes, too.

[A Horse With No Name]

Honestly, as much "clutter" as there was with duplicates, we need regular automotive news posting here. I'd rather have too many news posts that need merging versus not enough to sustain discussion.

I agree one hundred percent.

I just discovered the new rule prevents you from even entering the politics forum to browse w/o the 5 posts. That is just plain stupid. I can understand restricting posting, but just viewing the forum?

Stupid perhaps, but Olds has stepped up and tried to run a fantastic site so we can all come in and BS about cars. He needs our help keeping post count up so hue can keep advertisers, and stuff like the GM new car reviews where we get an actual car from GM to test...

Keep writing boys....

[Drew Dowdell]

if it's really that difficult to make 5 replies to the over 400,000 posts we have on this website (note that I'm not saying 5 worthwhile posts) before reading the politics section, then perhaps I am correct in thinking C&G's time as a forum is nearing an end.

[Intrepidation]

DF... does LHforums just do an autoblog dump? What new news is there for the LH platform lately... yet they still get frequent posts.

I guess? People will repost news and link to the source, usually from AB or IL. For example, a thread about the Infiniti Etherea Concept is on its 3rd page, as is the Cruze VS Focus thread I posted.

As an aside, I don't think anyone who has ever been to a forum will find our structure confusing or overwhelming. If anything its easier to navigate because everything isn't just lumped together.

I don't know about other people, but I usually just default to "View New Content" anyway.

[Drew Dowdell]

A few things:

There is currently a bug with View New Content that causes people to miss new posts. I've complained to IP soft multiple times. The acknowlage the problem but wont fix it till version 3.2 is released.

It is absolutely fine to post arthicles from other sites so long as you post a relevant clip of txt, include a comment or two of your own, and a link back to the original article.

what is not ok is a full dump of another website with no comment of your own. equally bad is just a link with no text.

[Drew Dowdell]

I have removed the posting requirement for the politics section due to popular demand. Those of you who can post in politics, please remember that this site survives on posts in the automotive forums, the politics section is not indexed by Google nor is it accessible by the general public... thus does nothing to draw more interest into the site. The reason I put the limitation in, in the first place was because certain members were coming here to only post in politics.I have no problem with people posting there... just gotta pay the bills first.

[regfootball]

Attempting to increase postings in other areas by limiting posting in an active area seems artificial and pointless to me. Working to create a bigger draw in the rest of the forums would be a more logical approach in my view.

It is a political time and passions run deep - that's just reality right now.

100% correct.

it makes me upset that i cannot go in and read the political forums after a 13 or 14 hour day away to catch up on new posts there, without having to make 5 bogus posts first. in topics or boards that have no activity.

i would create topics if i had the time, for example, car and driver did a five car comparo on the new compact cars.......cruze got 4th, etc. certainly would incite a lot of discussion. but you almost gotta have someone that posts all that stuff as a full time job. I haven't had time or desire to test drive much for reviews either.

then, there is the issue that GM has no new models really. or the industry in general.

and the circus side show stuff like green cars and such.

i also think if the forums were arranged differently and you didn't have to go three deep into some of the subforums.....it's too much work and time to get in and see if there is anything new. God forbid if you are interested in 'other Japanese makes'......

there is some merit to say, post elsewhere, not just politics.....there just is a real shortage of car based news these days.....

April sales figures will be out tomorrow maybe? and yet i still am not sure i saw March's on our site yet........usually those generated posts.....

I have removed the posting requirement for the politics section due to popular demand. Those of you who can post in politics, please remember that this site survives on posts in the automotive forums, the politics section is not indexed by Google nor is it accessible by the general public... thus does nothing to draw more interest into the site. The reason I put the limitation in, in the first place was because certain members were coming here to only post in politics.I have no problem with people posting there... just gotta pay the bills first.

ah, of course i didn't read this until after i put in an earlier reply.

Edited May 3, 2011 by regfootball

[ocnblu]

I cannot seem to open up the politics section. Have I been ?

[Delta Force79]

I've been a member since 2002, but have never really been all that talkative here, which my post count will reflect. I do however visit this site daily, multiple times a day for all of my automotive news. I don't even go to Autoblog or any other blog/news sites. The one exception is Allpar, again a site I've been visiting for over 10 years. I tend to use the view new content feature to keep up to date on everything here on C&G as I find it the easiest way to browse the forums. I will say though there's some favoritism present here among certain people. I was especially ticked off to see that my What are You Listening To thread was unpinned despite the fact it still had recent activity in it, when some threads that remain stickied have been dormant for months on end. That move really made me not even want to post here at all, not because you unpinned my thread, but because of the double standard favoring those who are either forum staff or members with a larger post count. That kind of bias really hinders the desire to even want to post when you're not someone who has 15K posts under his belt.

Another possible factor in the sites overall decline may be due to older members leaving, such as Ninety Eight, and Sixty8, XP175 among others. Oracle used to be a daily active member who makes rare appearances now, leaving only the core remaining old members. As others have said there is a basic formula apparent in each thread. Those who are in favor of new cars and those in favor of the way things used to be. That argument seems to be the daily theme here, I happen to fall somewhere in the middle, but leaning towards wanting the old days back, I often find myself in agreement with guys like Camino and Balthazar, but I can also see the mindsets of people like Dodgefan among others too. It's just useless really to have to rehash these same statements day in and day out and probably is a reason some members have moved on and new ones stay away.

But despite it, after spending 10 years of my life coming here almost daily, I would hate to see C&G fade away.

[G. David Felt]

While I do not agree with limiting a section, I can understand the reasoning, but since posting did drop off, is it possible that winter sports, bills, job hunting etc could be somewhat for the drop off. People might have stepped away to take a breather also. Seems all sites go through a drop in user activity and then people come back to it.

I think this is a temporary thing.

[Drew Dowdell]

I cannot seem to open up the politics section. Have I been ?

Politics is by request only.

[Drew Dowdell]

I've been a member since 2002, but have never really been all that talkative here, which my post count will reflect. I do however visit this site daily, multiple times a day for all of my automotive news. I don't even go to Autoblog or any other blog/news sites. The one exception is Allpar, again a site I've been visiting for over 10 years. I tend to use the view new content feature to keep up to date on everything here on C&G as I find it the easiest way to browse the forums. I will say though there's some favoritism present here among certain people. I was especially ticked off to see that my What are You Listening To thread was unpinned despite the fact it still had recent activity in it, when some threads that remain stickied have been dormant for months on end. That move really made me not even want to post here at all, not because you unpinned my thread, but because of the double standard favoring those who are either forum staff or members with a larger post count. That kind of bias really hinders the desire to even want to post when you're not someone who has 15K posts under his belt.

Another possible factor in the sites overall decline may be due to older members leaving, such as Ninety Eight, and Sixty8, XP175 among others. Oracle used to be a daily active member who makes rare appearances now, leaving only the core remaining old members. As others have said there is a basic formula apparent in each thread. Those who are in favor of new cars and those in favor of the way things used to be. That argument seems to be the daily theme here, I happen to fall somewhere in the middle, but leaning towards wanting the old days back, I often find myself in agreement with guys like Camino and Balthazar, but I can also see the mindsets of people like Dodgefan among others too. It's just useless really to have to rehash these same statements day in and day out and probably is a reason some members have moved on and new ones stay away.

But despite it, after spending 10 years of my life coming here almost daily, I would hate to see C&G fade away.

If it was me that unpinned your thread, it wasn't out of spite. I just went through and unpinned anything that didn't have activity in the past 12 months. I don't recall unpinning that one specifically.

I do my best not to be biased for or against people. There are some users here that really get on my nerves, but I don't limit their posting unless they get to trolling.

Ninety Eight stopped posting because he only wanted to post the news from other sites. His was a special case in that I wanted him to post his own thoughts and not just a copy/paste from another website. There are technical reasons behind needing that to stop. He chose to leave rather than make his own posts.

This site lives on posts. The more people post, the more other people will post, and it becomes a huge happy snowball.

[Delta Force79]

There are three threads in the Lounge that have not had a new post since October/November 2010 which are still pinned. What are you listening to was last active 2 days ago. At the time it was unpinned, I along with some other members said it should be re-pinned as it was still active. But I'm not gonna sit here and lose any sleep over it, it is just a thread, which isn't important in the scheme of things. Its the principle though. I don't see how I could be one of the annoying posters, seeing as how I rarely get involved in threads in the first place.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Delta Force79

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm always around. Just ping me or any other admin if you need something.

[dwightlooi]

Since the Politics section seems to be the most active forum on the website right now... and it's not related to automotive news... a small restriction has been put in place.

In order to enter the Politics forum, you must make at least 5 posts in any other forum in the previous 24 hours before you will be permitted to post in Politics.

No one, not even myself nor the other Admins are exempted from this rule.

This also presumes that you already have access to Politics.

-DD

I don't have access... but that is probably a good thing!

[Camino LS6]

I don't have access... but that is probably a good thing!

I don't know, could be interesting.