Let's say

[ocnblu]

Let's have a poll about this question and see where things land. Go!

Edited February 22, 2011 by ocnblu

[FAPTurbo]

Power my way is cheap, and I love bleeding edge technology. So if I were purchasing a new vehicle or motorcycle this year, it'd be electric.

[frogger]

Until high rise units in my area sell with charging capabilities for cars I will be sticking with fuel. It's no big deal for now I still spend less than 2% of gross income on fuel. Next car will probably be my last fossil fuel car though if infrastructure and battery tech advances well.

[§carlet §wordfish]

I like the idea of only having to buy a fraction of the gas I do now (which is about 10 gallons a week). I'd love to have a Karma, but I think I'd be happy with a Volt as well.

[Drew Dowdell]

After driving the Volt for a week, my answer is easy.. and it's already being discussed as a future purchase we like it that much.

[Intrepidation]

If money were no object, the Karma. Love everything about it, especially how it looks.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Strictly speaking you have a better palette of choices with Fossil fuel vehicles, the second that this is the case for electric cars, the decision changes.

Edited February 23, 2011 by vonVeezelsnider

[Croc]

If I didn't have to park on the street, Volt. But I do, so it would have to be fossil fuel. Sometimes I can't have it all, believe it or not...

[Turbojett]

right now, I'll stick with the good ol' Otto Cycle Internal Combustion engine. Electric is still far too new a technology for cars, though I must admit, it's making great strides in coming into its own. Perhaps when it become more contemporary.

[daves87rs]

I could go Volt.

[ocnblu]

I see no less than the Porsche CEO states he believes we are pretty near over the wave of excitement for electric propulsion, and his company forecasts a much lower vibrating electric market penetration (5%) than other forecasters (20%) by 2020.

I love Porsche.

[§carlet §wordfish]

Why are you so dead-set against electric cars?

[ocnblu]

Because I love and wholly prefer the sound and feel of internal combustion. Not to mention the completely practical and basic considerations of infrastructure, serviceability and purchase price relative to return. There really is no contest. Volt comes closest to being a real car... but the price v. return ratio is too high even with government assistance. I do not think I am being irrational.

[balthazar]

Electrics not for me. If they had been in production alongside IC since the dawn of the industry, I'd rethink the answer. Right now they're too unproven, esp long-term ownership expenses.

And the rethinking assumes there's a reasonable, and fitting my needs, choice available AND there's a readily available recharging option outside my garage. If it's a puddlejumper with no charging infrastructure, forget it.

Edited February 24, 2011 by balthazar

[Croc]

Because I love and wholly prefer the sound and feel of internal combustion. Not to mention the completely practical and basic considerations of infrastructure, serviceability and purchase price relative to return. There really is no contest. Volt comes closest to being a real car... but the price v. return ratio is too high even with government assistance. I do not think I am being irrational.

Um, think about the principle of economies of scale. By your logic, no one should have bought a personal computer in the 1980s because they only had limited functions and cost so damn much. Look at us now--had computers not caught on by early adopters, we'd be further behind now.

Also, there are some people who care about the environment enough that they don't mind paying more simply to stick it to the oil companies in the form of using hardly any/zero gasoline.

[ocnblu]

So you will become a bitch for the power companies and the mining companies, who are anything but environmentally friendly. How is the electricity being generated? How are the minerals for all those batteries being extracted? Who is to say those batteries will be properly recycled when they wear out? Who is going to bring a charging station to you in the middle of Death Valley on your cross-country road trip?

Every Prius we've had at our shop goes completely dead if it sits for about 5 days waiting for parts. With no damage to the electrical system to blame it on.

Edited February 24, 2011 by ocnblu

[FAPTurbo]

Well first of all, nobody really takes an electric car to Death Valley, because an electric car is constrained to the city. But for most people, that's entirely adequate, and they'd likely be smart enough not to take their car to Death Valley anyways.

Secondly, preferring the feel of internal combustion is OK. It's just that some of us don't prioritize 'feeling.' It's all about preference.

Porsche's CEO is probably just upset about the Fisker Karma which makes the already unremarkable Panamera look even less attractive.

[ocnblu]

Every time Porsche aggravates the purists, they prove them wrong. Check the sales figures for the Panamera relative to the rest of the lineup.

I can take a fossil-fueled vehicle to Death Valley (famous locale to make a point, there are millions of other places you could not venture) if I so choose. If I can afford only one vehicle, why on Earth choose the one with built-in mobility hobbles and compromises? Goes against the very definition of the word AUTO MOBILE.

Edited February 24, 2011 by ocnblu

[§carlet §wordfish]

Internal combustion engines still depend on gasoline. When it was brand new, there weren't gas stations everywhere. But the infrastructure grew and adapted to the demand. What would happen if you ran out of gas in the middle of Death Valley? It would be no different from running out of gas in the middle of Death Valley in a range-extended EV. Either way, if you plan well it won't happen.

[FAPTurbo]

Because some people don't do trips like that. Some people have second vehicles that let them do that. Some people will take a bus. Other people will rent a car or camper for the trip.

Your cons ≠ other people's cons. You're not in the target market for an electric car. Your price vs return ratio is not the same as another person's.

Be happy that electric vehicles are becoming viable. They will be what saves the automobile from a pod-car future.

[Robert Hall]

I have no reason to go to Death Valley (just another effing desert), but I'd rent a car before heading out there...wouldn't drive my own car there.

If I buy a car in 2012, it will likely be RWD w/ a V8, the way I like it.

[Lamar]

I vote fossil fuel.

I take a lot of interstate road trips, and no electric car will fit my needs in that respect. Not as soon as 2012, anyway.

[daves87rs]

Because some people don't do trips like that. Some people have second vehicles that let them do that. Some people will take a bus. Other people will rent a car or camper for the trip.

Your cons ≠ other people's cons. You're not in the target market for an electric car. Your price vs return ratio is not the same as another person's.

Be happy that electric vehicles are becoming viable. They will be what saves the automobile from a pod-car future.

Pretty good point.

[Blake Noble]

forecasts a much lower vibrating electric market penetration

... yeah.

[pow]

Everyone has their own reasons. In CA, air pollution in urban areas is responsible for 19,000 annual premature deaths and 280,000 annual cases of asthma. I grew up with asthma and my non-smoking grandfather succumbed to lung cancer - his office was right in front of a (diesel) bus stop. I've seen firsthand how poorer communities who live near major freeways have a far greater concentration of lung disease. For these personal reasons, I'll do what I can to reduce the amount of PM and other localized emissions into the air.

From a purely individual, consumer point of view, I've driven both the Leaf and Volt and I love their refinement and silky smooth operation. They make driving calmer and less stressful. Range isn't an issue for me because I rarely drive over 100 miles in one sitting. The Leaf doesn't appeal to me, and the Volt is quite expensive, but it seems the dashing Focus Electric would suit me just fine.

[Croc]

They make driving calmer and less stressful.

OK now I love these things and the potential behind them, but c'mon--my driving a Volt isn't going to make slower traffic suddenly keep right on the Harbor Fwy. nor will the immigrants start using turn signals, drive faster than 25mph, and/or move when the light turns green. And they for sure won't keep the rain away from Cahuenga Pass.

[Drew Dowdell]

I vote fossil fuel.

I take a lot of interstate road trips, and no electric car will fit my needs in that respect. Not as soon as 2012, anyway.

What car are you driving that has more than a 350 mile range?

[Drew Dowdell]

OK now I love these things and the potential behind them, but c'mon--my driving a Volt isn't going to make slower traffic suddenly keep right on the Harbor Fwy. nor will the immigrants start using turn signals, drive faster than 25mph, and/or move when the light turns green. And they for sure won't keep the rain away from Cahuenga Pass.

In the Volt, because of the "game" of trying to get the most EV miles, you tend to drive slower, accelerate slower, etc. The Volt can move when you need it to, but there is a shift in mentality.... at least at first.

[Camino LS6]

The Volt is an amazing piece of work, but electric cars are likely never to give me what I want in a car or truck, so I'll stick with internal combustion.

I would, however, like to see the fuels change.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Camino LS6

[Lamar]

What car are you driving that has more than a 350 mile range?

My last long trip was from Brodnax, VA to Athens, GA (coming back from Christmas vacation). 400something miles, didn't stop for gas until I got back to Athens. It was in the Bonneville.

[Robert Hall]

My Jeep theoretically has a 350 mile range, but I don't think I've ever gone that many miles w/ out fill up.

I don't recall the specifics, but IIRC the '04 Impala I drove from San Jose to Denver back in '04 had a great range....

[vonVeezelsnider]

I don't recall the specifics, but IIRC the '04 Impala I drove from San Jose to Denver back in '04 had a great range....

The last long trip I took my car on, I got effectively (I stopped for gas several times to top off) 575-625 miles out of the equivalent of 68L (one tank of gas)

[Satty]

A new car won't come until I "quit being a leech and make some money" so hopefully in a couple years GM has the capacity for more Volts so there isn't a waiting list or some generous soul gives me a large amount of money for a Karma.

[Drew Dowdell]

The Volt is an amazing piece of work, but electric cars are likely never to give me what I want in a car or truck, so I'll stick with internal combustion.

I would, however, like to see the fuels change.

The Volt in sport mode is already nearly as fast as most mid-range V6es..... and that it electric vehicle version 1.0. Electric motors can be capable of torque that would make a Duramax feel wimpy, yet they can also be fast enough to power the fastest land vehicles ever made.

You don't get much more versatile than an electric motor.

The problem with electric motors for the past 100 years has been the transportation of the energy to power them. It's wasn't an issue of their power output. As battery technology continues to improve, that primary issue with electric motivation will fade away.

Never say never.

[z28luvr01]

The Volt is an amazing piece of work, but electric cars are likely never to give me what I want in a car or truck, so I'll stick with internal combustion.

I would, however, like to see the fuels change.

This. We need a multi-pronged approach. Some will have their needs best served by an electric vehicle. Some will have their needs best served by an ICE powered by alternate fuels. Either way we need to stop putting all our eggs in one basket

RE: the impact of electric cars on the grid - how about a pole with a solar panel at the top, a 110/220V plug at the bottom, and a battery somewhere in the middle? Would that be that hard to engineer, and to plop in someone's driveway/garage?

[Drew Dowdell]

My last long trip was from Brodnax, VA to Athens, GA (coming back from Christmas vacation). 400something miles, didn't stop for gas until I got back to Athens. It was in the Bonneville.

So a Volt with a 350 mile range isn't long enough?

[Turbojett]

On my last road trip, I did Orange County, CA to Oklahoma City. Stopped in for gas in Kingman, AZ (320mi); Gallup, NM (330mi); Amarillo, TX (abt. 430mi; on fumes) and finally OK City (abt. 300mi with a little under an eighth tank).

Edited February 24, 2011 by Turbojett

[Lamar]

So a Volt with a 350 mile range isn't long enough?

I prefer not stopping if I can help it.

[Drew Dowdell]

I prefer not stopping if I can help it.

Your next vehicle should be a VW diesel then.... not many cars have much more than a 350 mile range these days.

[Lamar]

Your next vehicle should be a VW diesel then.... not many cars have much more than a 350 mile range these days.

Seriously? The Taurus SHO (a car I've been looking at) has a theoretical 323-mile range... city. 470something highway.

Add to that the fact that my trip home is about 96% highway, and suddenly 350 miles nonstop doesn't seem all that great a hurdle to cross.

[Drew Dowdell]

The Volt's range varies so widely depending on the terrain you are driving over. It's expected range is 350 miles EV + gas, but for instance if I were to drive from Pittsburgh to Philly, most of the trip after Blue Mountain (the 1/3rd point) is down hill, so that 350 mile range can extend up to 500 miles.

[Lamar]

My drive is pretty flat in VA, but through NC, SC, and GA there are quite a few elevation changes. I coast all the downhill parts much like you probably do.

Seems like the Volt's range would be much greater if it were a conventional hybrid instead of a dedicated EV.

But then again, I understand that that wasn't the point of the Volt.

[Drew Dowdell]

The Volt's range would be greater if it had more than an 8.5 gallon gas tank

[Robert Hall]

So a Volt with a 350 mile range isn't long enough?

Range is not a big deal to me, I try and stop every 2 hours on any road trip anyway..

[z28luvr01]

Seriously? The Taurus SHO (a car I've been looking at) has a theoretical 323-mile range... city. 470something highway.

Add to that the fact that my trip home is about 96% highway, and suddenly 350 miles nonstop doesn't seem all that great a hurdle to cross.

That's probably more a function of the Taurus' 19 gallon gas tank which is abnormally large for a midsized front driver. 19 gal * 25 mpg = 475 miles. However, that's an expensive fillup.

[Robert Hall]

That's probably more a function of the Taurus' 19 gallon gas tank which is abnormally large for a midsized front driver. 19 gal * 25 mpg = 475 miles. However, that's an expensive fillup.

Taurus is a fullsize model..19 sounds reasonable for a fullsize. The Fusion is the midsize Ford, probably has a smaller tank.

[Lamar]

That's probably more a function of the Taurus' 19 gallon gas tank which is abnormally large for a midsized front driver. 19 gal * 25 mpg = 475 miles. However, that's an expensive fillup.

The tanks in both the Bonneville and the Maxima are 18.5 gallons. One more half gallon isn't world-ending for me.

[ocnblu]

Oldsmoboi fails to indicate the Volt's range can also be much LESS than 350 miles. And when you get somewhere, are you going to find a 120 outlet in the parking lot @ Motel 6?

[Intrepidation]

And when you get somewhere, are you going to find a 120 outlet in the parking lot @ Motel 6?

Perhaps not, but then you don't need to. Just put gas in and keep going, like a normal car.

[Drew Dowdell]

Oldsmoboi fails to indicate the Volt's range can also be much LESS than 350 miles. And when you get somewhere, are you going to find a 120 outlet in the parking lot @ Motel 6?

Uh... no. Not really. 8.5 gallons at the EPA 37mpg (which I never got anywhere near as low as that) is 314 miles in gas regeneration mode. Add in 30 miles of EV range, and you're looking at 344 miles of range.

350 miles is a safe bare minimum range for the Volt... rather easily.

Do I care if I can find a 120v outlet? I just pull around the corner to the Hess Station and fill the tank up again, for a lot less money than the $66 you'll pump into a Taurus SHO.

but since you're wondering.... the cord has about a 25 foot reach... so yeah, you probably could find an outlet for it.