2012 Buick Verano Official Release

[Northstar]

I really don't see the point of this car. It's a slightly nicer Cruze? For what price? Regal money? Then what's the point of the Regal? And it doesn't offer much better MPG than the Regal, so that's not a selling point either.

So you either get the Cruze with better MPG or the Regal with more space. I don't think anyone would classify the Regal as "too big" either.

I do like the front end of the Verano better than the Regal, but other than that I don't see how it's "better" in any area.

[regfootball]

in serious study of the side profiles of the Cruze and Verona, it appears to me that the greenhouse profile and side character line of the two cars are pretty close to if not identical.

the door cut outs and window glass in the doors seem identical or close to it. of course the vernao has the shaping on the lower part of the door. That's just skin though. The crash structure must be the exact same, almost.

the glass aft of the c pillar is different on the verano, that coupled with the really different rear deck is what differentiates the car on the aft end. If you continue the arch of the back window glass down to the beltline you'd have the same triangle of black like they have on the cruze.

In similar fashion, its either identical or close to it the starting point of the chrome trim and cutout for the glazing at the a-pillar and beltline. Where on the cruze there is a small opaque triangle in front of the door frame and mirror, this is where they pushed the door frame back a little up top to create the glass triangle. So part of the area that the glass triangle occupies is in the same spot as some blacked out trim on the cruze. Otherwise, the area that is glass is created with the frame pushed back. The arc of the greenhouse and area defined mostly as the window cutout if more than likely identical or close to it on both cars aside from the triangle treatment up front and the rearmost side window in back.

Another item that looks the same to me is the piece that frames the foglights, the chromey accent fill in panel and circular cutout for the foglight looks damn identical. Scary good design if they have the two incredibly distinctive front ends and yet manage to recycle those lower fill in parts like that.

GM was more clever about sharing the love and rebadging here than immediately meets the eye. I always wondered why the Vurano had the same arbitrary side sweep that all cars have now....and until you really study it does it kind of seem its really not all that different than what is on the Cruze.

I wonder how the Cadillac version will look. Maybe this really is the new ATS

Edited January 7, 2011 by regfootball

[Satty]

I don't find anything objectionable here, it seems like a reasonable entry level Buick. I'd still take a Regal, but certainly wouldn't blame anyone for saving a few bucks and a couple inches of driveway for the Verano.

[hyperv6]

Sure they can, and have for years, and do now.

Sorry but todays economic of scale will prevent that.

You already are seeing Opels with modest changes to become Buicks so I would not hold my breath for major engineering changes in the new world car market. Unless a car sells in great numbers like a Silverado they will not make a car for one market anymore. Each model will have to be able to be adapted to other markets to survive.

Times have changed and it is either adapt or die.

[NOS2006]

iffy - E e-brake. is this becoming common?

I believe so. The CTS has it also.

[Camino LS6]

The trend is strongly in favor of the "one world car". One Focus, one Cruze, etc. You'll have to learn to live with bland designs that are appealing in all cultures. Verano fits that bill nicely.

Umm, no.

I have to do no such thing.

[Camino LS6]

Sorry but todays economic of scale will prevent that.

You already are seeing Opels with modest changes to become Buicks so I would not hold my breath for major engineering changes in the new world car market. Unless a car sells in great numbers like a Silverado they will not make a car for one market anymore. Each model will have to be able to be adapted to other markets to survive.

Times have changed and it is either adapt or die.

Die?

I think not.

For the masses that might be just fine, but no such "world cars" will ever separate me from my money.

No clown-nosed euro safety mobiles for me , thanks.

I they want to sell me a car, it will have to set itself apart from the pack. There is simply no way that I would ever lay out new car money for "world car" that has so many compromises.

[z28luvr01]

I'm still of the belief that, at least in the case of the Verano, they could have still satisfied the regulations and come up with a better solution to where the hood, fenders, doors, and windshield intersect. It's kind of a shame because, other than that issue, I think it's a really sharp little car and it would be a good option for people who don't want a bigger car yet want to step up from their Cobalt, Civic, Corolla, etc.

[CSpec]

I really don't see the point of this car. It's a slightly nicer Cruze? For what price? Regal money? Then what's the point of the Regal? And it doesn't offer much better MPG than the Regal, so that's not a selling point either.

I think this may be a CAFE move.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Honestly, I think I prefer the Regal.

[Z-06]

Reg, a question for you. How do you find the rear leg room for the previous generation TSX?

[Intrepidation]

Die?

I think not.

For the masses that might be just fine, but no such "world cars" will ever separate me from my money.

No clown-nosed euro safety mobiles for me , thanks.

I they want to sell me a car, it will have to set itself apart from the pack. There is simply no way that I would ever lay out new car money for "world car" that has so many compromises.

Well right off the bat I can think of at least 7 cars that were designed for the US market first, and of those at least 3 of them meet most of your criteria for buying car, and one that meets them all (besides having a bed).

[balthazar]

The more and more electronic this & airbag that & passive this & avoidance that only increases my desire to put a mid-'60s car back on the road, with REAL trunk space & REAL interior room & REAL visibility & REAL durability. I could have one rebuitl for FAR less than the entry-level price for this segment and that savings would pay for the MPG deficiency for a decade, easy. I don't need or want the latest electronic distraction, in-dash NNAAVV, etc etc etc - modern sh!t is really pointing up the need for a new Minimalist Car that allows the driver to concentrate on DRIVING (which would address most of what had been discussed in tangents in this thread).

Verano looks nice from the pics, but it still seems to me the segments are slowly contracting towards each other, with less & less distinction on so many levels. I would have to see this side-by-side with a Regal. And with the contracting in spending still commonplace, I DO see this car -quiet & with decent features- competing 'outside' it's price class.

[SoCalCTS]

Don't assume the Verano will have the nice plastic and nice interior. Cart before the horse. I won't believe this as an upscale car until I see it. GM still doesn't consistently deliver knockout interiors. Until you see a truly excellent interior in execution, it's just a tarted up Cruze. The horrific looking plood in the photos and US assembly and sourcing lead me to believe you won't get anything bordering Audi quality inside this thing.

Thank you. The thing that holds back the Regal is the cheap looking black, gray and faux metal interior. The Verano has a chance as long as they keep the woodgrain and darker brown leather.

[Drew Dowdell]

Thank you. The thing that holds back the Regal is the cheap looking black, gray and faux metal interior. The Verano has a chance as long as they keep the woodgrain and darker brown leather.

What are you talking about? The interior in the Regal is a major step forward and very much on par with equal priced Germans.

[balthazar]

The horrific looking plood in the photos and US assembly and sourcing lead me to believe you won't get anything bordering Audi quality inside this thing.

-- -- -- -- --

If we need to channel 'Grand Am' anywhere... And is that an exposed cigarette lighter, on the console, in 2011? Sure you can plug junk in there... but there's still a cigarette emblem on it. How does everyone like that 'slide-in' rectangular NAV unit- nice integration, eh? Eh??

Drab, depressing & cheap-looking interior. Typically audi : overhype and WAY under deliver.

Edited January 7, 2011 by balthazar

[Intrepidation]

To be fair, the A3 is getting long in the tooth. It'd be more accurate to compare the A4's interior.

[Drew Dowdell]

My last A6 rental didn't even have a CD player.....

[Camino LS6]

Well right off the bat I can think of at least 7 cars that were designed for the US market first, and of those at least 3 of them meet most of your criteria for buying car, and one that meets them all (besides having a bed).

That's just the point, DF. I want cars like that to continue - that's why I get so vocal when someone says that I "have to" adapt to the new world order of cars.

I refuse entirely.

[balthazar]

^ God that's awful. Separate console & dash... still? I do like the 1970 horizontal dash, esp with the circular gauges behind a completely random-shaped cutout. Dash panel reminds me of this:

Hazard lamps button afterthought, much? Nice retro '90 doorpanels, too.

The more I see of audi interiors, the less there is to like.

[Camino LS6]

I'm still of the belief that, at least in the case of the Verano, they could have still satisfied the regulations and come up with a better solution to where the hood, fenders, doors, and windshield intersect. It's kind of a shame because, other than that issue, I think it's a really sharp little car and it would be a good option for people who don't want a bigger car yet want to step up from their Cobalt, Civic, Corolla, etc.

I agree completely - they have to try harder if the car is to claim its own identity.

That said, the Verano is far from the worst offender on this front. For what it is, it is ok. Not a standout, but ok.

[Drew Dowdell]

To be fair, the A3 is getting long in the tooth. It'd be more accurate to compare the A4's interior.

Base price $32,000?

Lets add a bunch of the stuff the Verano will have.

Premium Plus Package: $3,209

DescriptionPremium Plus Package:

Description:Wheels: 8J x 17" 10-Spoke Alloy<li>Tires: P245/45R17 95H AS<li>Audi Music Interface w/iPod Cable<li>Auto-Dimming Interior Mirror w/Compass<li>Bluetooth Hands-Free Phone Interface<li>Includes preparation for mobile phone (Bluetooth) with voice dialing.<li>Chrome Trim Around Side Windows<li>Driver Information Center<li>Includes trip computer.<li>6-Step Heated Front Seats<li>HomeLink Universal Garage Door Opener<li>LED Daytime Running Lamps<li>LED Tail Lamps<li>Rain Sensor<li>Light Sensor<li>Split Folding Rear Seat Back<li>Three Zone Climate Control<li>Xenon Plus Headlights

Rear side airbags - $329

Total - $36,225

[balthazar]

But "to be fair", the A3 is $5K more than the Verano- shouldn't it's interior blow it away, period? It's not like successive generation interiors are leaps & bounds better than the previous ones, in general, and esp WRT audi. "Long in the tooth" describe audi interiors in general, but shouldn't be a crutch here.

[Drew Dowdell]

^ God that's awful. Separate console & dash... still? I do like the 1970 horizontal dash, esp with the circular gauges behind a completely random-shaped cutout. Dash panel reminds me of this:

Hazard lamps button afterthought, much? Nice retro '90 doorpanels, too.

The more I see of audi interiors, the less there is to like.

And I thought center consoles were supposed to flow into the dash these days......

[Robert Hall]

To be fair, the A3 is getting long in the tooth. It'd be more accurate to compare the A4's interior.

The A4/A5 has one of the nicest dashes in the business, IMO...no pods..nice driver-centric design..love this interior.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Intrepidation]

I like both the A4's interior and the Verano's interior. One thing I don't like about the Verano's is that the buttons all look the same and aren't really separated and grouped by function like they are in say, the LaCrosse or the A4.

I also don't like the name, Verano. It's completely forgettable, so much so I have to look back to the top of this thread to remember how its slept. I would have preferred something more recognizable.

Base price $32,000?

Lets add a bunch of the stuff the Verano will have.

Premium Plus Package: $3,209

DescriptionPremium Plus Package:

Description:Wheels: 8J x 17" 10-Spoke Alloy<li>Tires: P245/45R17 95H AS<li>Audi Music Interface w/iPod Cable<li>Auto-Dimming Interior Mirror w/Compass<li>Bluetooth Hands-Free Phone Interface<li>Includes preparation for mobile phone (Bluetooth) with voice dialing.<li>Chrome Trim Around Side Windows<li>Driver Information Center<li>Includes trip computer.<li>6-Step Heated Front Seats<li>HomeLink Universal Garage Door Opener<li>LED Daytime Running Lamps<li>LED Tail Lamps<li>Rain Sensor<li>Light Sensor<li>Split Folding Rear Seat Back<li>Three Zone Climate Control<li>Xenon Plus Headlights

Rear side airbags - $329

Total - $36,225

I mean design age the A3 is old, the interior design of the A4 is much more recent. Sheeh.

[balthazar]

If you like dated, pseudo-retro design with completely disharmonious shapes & lines, yes.

Shouldn't that plood in front of the passenger be flipped around, so the point is toward the outside?

You have:

a chrome-edged vent to the left,

then an amorphous untrimmed cutout around the gauges,

then back to a third shape around the screen (with a last-minute bump-out for the hazard switch), this time with a recessed lip around it.

The overall design is almost dizzying; everything is pointing this way & that.

[Robert Hall]

If you like dated, pseudo-retro design with completely disharmonious shapes & lines, yes.

I like it for it's distinctiveness...

The Verano interior looks nicely put together, but the overall design esp. the pod and center stack look like 90% of GM's recent designs and so many other cars today..homogenous and generic.

[Drew Dowdell]

I mean design age the A3 is old, the interior design of the A4 is much more recent. Sheeh.

Then shouldn't the dash flow into the console as design dictates these days?

[Robert Hall]

Then shouldn't the dash flow into the console as design dictates these days?

Why? Why should every car adhere to whatever the trend of the day is? That leads to boring genericism.

[balthazar]

Yet at the same time, invites legitimate criticism for being outdated- since FAR more people demand THE NEW!! than something unique.

Besides, it's pretty much unique in that it's poor design left behind by the the rest. Kinda like the interior equivalent of the Panther cars.

Edited January 7, 2011 by balthazar

[Intrepidation]

Why? Why should every car adhere to whatever the trend of the day is? That leads to boring genericism.

I agree, but hey if we're going to complain about it let's call the interiors of the GMT900's terrible since they do the same thing.

[Robert Hall]

Yet at the same time, invites legitimate criticism for being outdated- since FAR more people demand THE NEW!! than something unique.

Besides, it's pretty much unique in that it's poor design left behind by the the rest. Kinda like the interior equivalent of the Panther cars.

That's just your opinion that it's 'poor design'.

[balthazar]

From design standpoint, it lack cohesiveness, fluidity & balance. The 'poor' comment is more subjective, yes.

Verano shows far better harmony & flow from design/graphic & integration standards.

Materials & fit/finish are other matters.

[SoCalCTS]

What are you talking about? The interior in the Regal is a major step forward and very much on par with equal priced Germans.

Sorry but German interiors are gross unless you opt for the wood and upgraded color leather. Black and gray and matte finish is cheap and tacky looking in any kind of plastic euro sourced or domestic.

[Croc]

Sorry but German interiors are gross unless you opt for the wood and upgraded color leather. Black and gray and matte finish is cheap and tacky looking in any kind of plastic euro sourced or domestic.

Agreed.

[Chicagoland]

"Century still sold well last gen did it not?" Quite a few were sold to Avis, Alamo....etc. Near Zero profit sales do not count.

Also, too many fan-boys, who never buy new cars, expect GNX, Roadmaster, Electra, or even '53 Skylark. The Verano is a C class car, not supposed to have huge back seat. Also, the Jetta is pushing into Mid size territory, but the it plain as dishwater.

And if one wants high MPG, buy a diesel, hybrid or motorcycle. Or better yet, take subway, train, or bus.

[Camino LS6]

The real question for this car is is it competitive?

All of the factors dismissed above have bearing on that question.

[pow]

The real question for this car is is it competitive?

All of the factors dismissed above have bearing on that question.

No one knows what to compare it against. Essentially, this is a four-door version of the Astra, which means it should compete against mainstream C-segment cars like the Focus and Golf. However, because it's painted brown and has chrome all over, it's a Buick, which apparently makes it more premium than the Ford or Volkswagen. Yet you can't compare the Astra to A3 or IS, which are in a completely different league. It's stuck somewhere in between.

I think Buick can frame the Verano as a Focus and Golf competitor for those who aspire to have an Audi or Lexus but would like to save money. The trouble is, if they price the Verano too close to large mainstream family sedans, people might choose the additional space of an Accord or Sonata over the "premium" Buick badge.

[Camino LS6]

I'd say that's part of the same question, pow.

Agree?

Edited January 7, 2011 by Camino LS6

[frogger]

The sooner the chrome rimmed pod gauges theme dies the better IMO. I almost feel like its going to be on the next Vette along with the smiliar radio and steering wheel we see in the Verano.

It will be much easier to pass judgement on this car once the pricing is out and the alternate no plood interior scheme is revealed.

[Robert Hall]

I'd say that's part of the same question, pow.

Agree?

It's a step up from the Cruze LTZ, so it's niche is for people that want a fancier, more powerful Cruze..sort of where the 2012 Mercury Tracer was supposed to be relative to the Focus had it and Mercury not been cancelled. I suppose Chrysler will have an equivalent model from whatever it replaces the Caliber with.

The name makes me think of Nissans and suburban subdivisions (there is a subdivision out here called Verrado). Not sure if their past compact names would have worked, though...Somerset maybe...Skylark, Special and Skyhawk sound dated...Century was a good midsize name that could have worked.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[67impss]

technically yes, but some lawyer and symapthetic judge etc. would conspire against the system to make it my fault. that's how society is today.

just needed to add that one more bit on that.

Sorry guys but thats been the law in Ohio for forever & a day the pedestrian has the right of way

[regfootball]

Reg, a question for you. How do you find the rear leg room for the previous generation TSX?

i hardly ever set foot in acuras. visually, it looked tight. visually, the current TSX looks more roomy.

IMO the cruze has about the same rear quarters as the current 9-3, but the 9-3's seatback is more upright like the cobalt. The Cruze has decent footspace. the ingress and egress in back is an issue on the cruze, the door opening is really restrictive. Helps crash scores, but not terribly people friendly. i assume its crappy for putting kids in car seats too.

[regfootball]

Thank you. The thing that holds back the Regal is the cheap looking black, gray and faux metal interior. The Verano has a chance as long as they keep the woodgrain and darker brown leather.

I do think the Regal's interior bits are nice. lower door plastic is cheaper in spots but it is out of sight. the plood and piano black in the Regal is fine to me IMO. The regal's leather is quite nice. Once they start making the Regal in North America I fully expect the interior to get effed up and poisoned with typical cheap bits. The leather will be decontented, the plastic will magically get crappy, and fabrics and such will go lowest bidder. the switches and controls especially the center stack will probably downgrade in feel and precision of assembly.

Although, some of the finer points inside the Cruze give me a tiny bit of hope that maybe the Regal won't get watered down.

[regfootball]

The real question for this car is is it competitive?

All of the factors dismissed above have bearing on that question.

somehow i get the feeling that the marketers at buick are targeting a bunch that will find the car competitive based upon whether it has vanity visor mirrors, a spot for the pink cell phone, and a cupholder large enough for the VENTI mocha.

that said, i think the car will handle nicely. I think the 2.4 as a base engine is a pretty solid choice and it does set up the turbo to be a real performance rig. I am going to assume the Verano with the turbo will get the Astra's bolstered seats, not the mini versions of Lucerne thrones I am seeing in these official pictures.

I really will be disappointed if Buick doesn't import the 3 and 5 door astra unharmed here to round out the compact lineup. With bolstered seats, no plood, real German smell, all that. Might even be a nice mechanism to bring a diesel to the US.

Edited January 8, 2011 by regfootball

[Intrepidation]

I just noticed that it appears to have a total of 6 portholes. Disappointing then that GM would ignore what they stand for.

[balthazar]

^ They've NEVER stood for cylinder count.

[Intrepidation]

Really? I thought they did, they certainly did on the Lucerne. So what are they, just chrome add on these days with no significance at all?

[Robert Hall]

They should stand for cylinder count...like 2 for a 4cyl, 3 for a V6, 4 for a V8.

Maybe in the '60s-70s, it was to separate the B-bodies (LeSabre) from the C-bodies (Electras) ?