So tired of Chinese-made garbage

[Camino LS6]

Is it the law over there that everything they make has to be defective junk?

Today's frustrations:

- Brand new defective fluorescent bulb

- Plastic-cased flourescent starters that twist apart as they are installed

- Those same starters 6 months later that crumble to pieces due to degraded plastic and so require dismantling the light fixture to remove the remains.

Thanks loads, Walmart!

We have to find a way to eliminate this junk from our market.

Edited January 4, 2011 by Camino LS6

[CSpec]

People said the same about Japan years ago, but they are now rightly known for high quality precision manufacturing. South Korea is making that transition nicely, and China will do the same.

[Camino LS6]

So what?

The point is that greed has flooded our market with defective or dangerous garbage to the exclusion of any worthwhile products.

The lack of quality needs to come back to haunt the Chinese, they build nothing worth buying.

[regfootball]

To the exclusion of worthwhile products is exactly the case.

It would be nice if we had more choices. All some of us want is a choice!

[Intrepidation]

I will go out of my way and pay more for something Made in USA.

You can find things, it takes some searching. Problem is there isn't always a choice, like say with small appliances. Or TVs.

[Camino LS6]

Exactly Reg, it is that lack of choice which hands the license to China to be downright criminal in their business dealings.

Entities like Walmart are complicit in this, of course.

[Satty]

Take the extra time and money to shop anyplace but Walmart, you'll be glad you did.

[Camino LS6]

Oh, I don't shop there Satty.

But that doesn't mean that the effects of their policies don't impact my choices where I do shop.

I've never made a purchase in a Walmart, and never intend to.

Edited January 4, 2011 by Camino LS6

[Cory Wolfe]

My modem has been freezing up and rebooting, causing my connection to cut in and out... Made in China.

[FAPTurbo]

My modem has been freezing up and rebooting, causing my connection to cut in and out... Made in China.

Oddly, MY made in China computer parts including my router don't have those problems.

Change your damn firmware.

[regfootball]

rich fat old white guy who is an exec, board member etc of nearly all companies pretty much dictates that all our sht is made in china so he can continue to make 6 figures or 7 figures while his employees in the US make min. and the nice folks in china can make 25 cents an hour or whatever.

[balthazar]

Even chinese cardboard is substandard.

[pow]

The Chinese can make great, high-quality stuff... just not at the prices Wal-Mart demands.

[Camino LS6]

The Chinese can make great, high-quality stuff... just not at the prices Wal-Mart demands.

Maybe they can, but they don't.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm surprised at you Camino. CSpec tells me that those products make you feel richer because you can buy more of them.

[Camino LS6]

I'm surprised at you Camino. CSpec tells me that those products make you feel richer because you can buy more of them.

[pow]

Maybe they can, but they don't.

The Audi A6L they make there is pretty awesome. My MacBook has been the most reliable computer I've had. I think it's more the brand or company than country of assembly.

[Croc]

Actually I think it has most to do with how good the dim sum is in the factory canteen. Nasty dumplings = nauseous workers who just don't give a f@#k.

[FAPTurbo]

The Audi A6L they make there is pretty awesome. My MacBook has been the most reliable computer I've had. I think it's more the brand or company than country of assembly.

Bingo. If the company wants the best quality, they'll get it.

[balthazar]

I think it's possible to get quality out of China, there are some examples of it, but to --for example-- consciously put human waste in cooking lard is some kind of frightening, zombie mindset... and the sheer scope & regularity of this sort of intentional practice where people & animals are knowingly sickened and killed for money via food supply is beyond comparison in modern times & civilized societies.

[Robert Hall]

I think it's possible to get quality out of China, there are some examples of it, but to --for example-- consciously put human waste in cooking lard is some kind of frightening, zombie mindset...

Same kind of thing would happen here without the FDA and other agencies..of course, some small government/ pro-business believers want to eliminate such regulation..

On topic, though, there is a wide range of product quality coming out of China, as from any market probably...some stuff cheap and nasty and poorly made, and others not so much..electronic gadgets I have that were assembled in China seem to have held up fine..

Edited January 5, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

^ Riiiiight; because before the FDA/ et al, the sh!t was oozing out of cooking materials on U.S. store shelves.

You seem quite unaware that there are MARKED differences in cultures around the world, and that that INCLUDES commercial cultures.

Edited January 5, 2011 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

^ Riiiiight; because before the FDA/ et al, the sh!t was oozing out of cooking materials on U.S. store shelves.

You seem quite unaware that there are MARKED differences in cultures around the world, and that that INCLUDED commercial cultures.

I'm aware of there are differences in cultures, but I don't trust companies in this country any more than companies in China... companies are inherently corrupt and will cut corners, etc to make a profit and thus must be regulated, esp. where safety is concerned.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm aware of there are differences in cultures, but I don't trust companies in this country any more than companies in China... companies are inherently corrupt and will cut corners, etc to make a profit and thus must be regulated, esp. where safety is concerned.

<a href="http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-01-03/" title="Dilbert.com"><img src="http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/100000/00000/9000/600/109699/109699.strip.gif" border="0" alt="Dilbert.com" /></a>

[Blake Noble]

This is a game we play a lot in the industry I'm heavily involved in right now. The rules are simple: is the first guitar fake? The bottom photo is the real deal.

No cheating. The answer might surprise you.

I will add that my disdain for the flooding of Chinese-made products in our market is just as massive as anybody else's here. I will also add, though, that since I've played and tried out one of these "Fibson" guitars, it's shaken me a bit. See, Gibson guitars are very hit and miss right now, in some instances even worse than when the company was owned by cement giant Norlin during the late '60s, '70s, and early '80s. Quality isn't very good, traditional and proven designs are being changed for the worse, and new designs are pointless and insulting. These fake guitars are sometimes better than the real deal, which is very disturbing, and can be had for about the price of an Epiphone guitar (which, ironically, some of the Chinese plants that are building Epiphone guitars for Gibson are also building these fakes, a horrible practice that is burning Gibson raw), sometimes even less.

[balthazar]

I'm aware of there are differences in cultures, but I don't trust companies in this country any more than companies in China...

Yet you don't seem to trust companies in China that will coat children's toys with lead in 2010, when it's been effectively banned in the U.S. (in housepaint for example) since 1970 ANY LESS, either. If you can see that, you sure don't convey that.

Ideals are fine in the absence of facts. However, these scenarios did not happen at the same time in history, with the same base of knowledge, but generations apart with volumes of information readily available. Again; at what point did a U.S. company intentionally put human sh!t into cooking lard ??? (Let me guess: no answer there, again.) This is not accidental, it is not unknowning, it is INTENTIONAL, and it cannot legitimately be explained, equalized or excused. These are not inbred neanderthal zombies running things in china, they're not building computers with sharpened sticks in grass huts, it's not the year 1000 over there. Get real.

[pow]

Yet you don't seem to trust companies in China that will coat children's toys with lead in 2010, when it's been effectively banned in the U.S. (in housepaint for example) since 1970 ANY LESS, either. If you can see that, you sure don't convey that.

Ideals are fine in the absence of facts. However, these scenarios did not happen at the same time in history, with the same base of knowledge, but generations apart with volumes of information readily available. Again; at what point did a U.S. company intentionally put human sh!t into cooking lard ??? (Let me guess: no answer there, again.) This is not accidental, it is not unknowning, it is INTENTIONAL, and it cannot legitimately be explained, equalized or excused. These are not inbred neanderthal zombies running things in china, they're not building computers with sharpened sticks in grass huts, it's not the year 1000 over there. Get real.

There are examples of this all around the world. Ford chose to pinch pennies and knowingly manufactured a vehicle, the Pinto, that would explode when rear ended. Ford knew they should have made Explorer roofs stronger, but they figured at $200,000 per human life, it wasn't worth it. On the subject of food, been to a modern slaughterhouse lately? In a USDA study, 78.6% of factory ground beef contained microbes spread by fecal matter. Why? There is $h! in your Big Mac.

[Camino LS6]

The simple truth is that China's business practices are the most criminal in history. They have zero respect for intellectual property, use forced labor, intentionally produce poisoned food and medicine - all for the sake of a few more pennies. Any country that intentionally builds dangerous toys, poisoned medicine and pet food, and counterfeits everything under the sun, cannot be trusted at all.

No, what China does is not what "any other country" does, it is the most extreme example among all countries.

But none of that is the worst part.

The worst part is the complicity of our own corporations (such as Walmart), who knowingly look the other way.

The result is an evil reality.

[CSpec]

The Audi A6L they make there is pretty awesome. My MacBook has been the most reliable computer I've had. I think it's more the brand or company than country of assembly.

This.

There are examples of this all around the world. Ford chose to pinch pennies and knowingly manufactured a vehicle, the Pinto, that would explode when rear ended.

I also seem to remember that American cars broke down all the time before China's little brother started sending us their evil wares.

[Camino LS6]

Oh boy, someone's drinking the Kool-aid.

[balthazar]

Wow: conversation over!

[Robert Hall]

The worst part is the complicity of our own corporations (such as Walmart), who knowingly look the other way.

The result is an evil reality.

It's an example of capitalism run amok..corrupt international corporations screwing over consumers and workers world wide...just the way it is.

[CSpec]

It's an example of capitalism..ruthlessly competitive and innovative international corporations enriching consumers and workers world wide...just the way it is.

Fixed.

[Drew Dowdell]

I also seem to remember that American cars broke down all the time before China's little brother started sending us their evil wares.

Japanese cars were utter &#036;h&#33;boxes in the 70s and even into the early 80's. It wasn't until the 1992 Camry that Toyota finally was able to produce a car that didn't turn to a pile of rust after one north east winter. There was a 70's Corolla in my family that was the first new car purchase for that person. It lasted 8 months because some wire in the dash shorted out, caught fire, and consumed the whole vehicle. The car that was traded for the Corolla was a used Corvair who's only offense was very leaky windows during hard Florida rain storms.

The only difference between the &#036;h&#33;boxes the Japanese built and the &#036;h&#33;boxes the domestics built was generally the cost. By the mid-80s the Japanese had equalized with the domestics on cost and finally wrote a big enough check to Consumer Reports to get some "recommended" ratings.... (from the same company that "recommended" the Dodge Dart.)

Toyota made it all of one generation of Camry before they started taking the short cuts that lead to the situation they are in today.

Conversely, the Cadillac that is considered the worst for reliability, the 8-6-4, was simply the victim of being a product ahead of it's time, was pulled off the market in less than a year, and owners were offered replacement engines. Cadillac has been punished for 30 years for that attempt to innovate. GM has cylinder deactivation available in a bunch of vehicles today, but none in a Cadillac.

To imply that the domestics wouldn't innovate without the threat of competition from imports ignores history:

Airbags - General Motors

Crash Test Dummy - General Motors

Front Wheel Drive - General Motors

Variable Displacement Engine - General Motors

The Mini-van - Chrysler

Unibody across an entire lineup - Chrysler

The modern unibody SUV - AMC

Electronic Fuel Injection - Attempted by AMC first, but Chrysler got it on sale first - 9 years before it was available on any German cars.

4-wheel ABS - Chrysler Imperial - 7 years before Mercedes introduced it on the S-class

A V8 with self preservation mode - General Motors

Mercedes took the Airbag (from Oldsmobile), the 3-point belt (from Volvo), and ABS (from Chrysler), added a belt pre-tensioner that was tied to the airbag trigger, and then claimed to have invented the whole system.

Even in some things that weren't really "innovations" the domestics have been ahead in some of their offerings:

The Oldsmobile Quad-4 was a DOHC 4-cylinder offered on the mass market while Toyota and Honda were still running SOHC 4-cylinders. It was also capable of 180hp in 1990, the Accord didn't exceed that power rating in a 4-cylinder until 2008. The Camry still hasn't.

It took Toyota until 2004 to exceed the power rating of the 1989 GM 3.4 DOHC engine.

GM made ABS standard on even it's small cars, but had to back off when the rest of the market didn't follow and was able to sell cars at lower cost without ABS.

Ford started "aero" craze with the original Taurus. We look on that era with disdain today, but back then, in the words of Joe Biden, it was "A big f-ing deal!".

[Croc]

^ Riiiiight; because before the FDA/ et al, the sh!t was oozing out of cooking materials on U.S. store shelves.

You seem quite unaware that there are MARKED differences in cultures around the world, and that that INCLUDES commercial cultures.

Um, did you not ever read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair? Did you not hear about the Salmonella egg recalls of 2010?

[balthazar]

You are really equating salmonella, a naturally occurring bacteria of over 1000 strains that the food handling industry fights on a minute-by-minute basis, to HUMAN feces in cooking lard?

And The Jungle was published in 1906, the chinese examples are from 100 years later. Again, unless china is somehow stuck in a bubble in the year 1000, these things are NO LONGER excusable.

Edited January 5, 2011 by balthazar

[CSpec]

And The Jungle was published in 1906, the chinese examples are from 100 years later. Again, unless china is somehow stuck in a bubble in the year 1000, these things are NO LONGER excusable.

On a per capita GDP basis, China is where the US was in about 1925.

[Croc]

You are really equating salmonella, a naturally occurring bacteria of over 1000 strains that the food handling industry fights on a minute-by-minute basis, to HUMAN feces in cooking lard?

And The Jungle was published in 1906, the chinese examples are from 100 years later. Again, unless china is somehow stuck in a bubble in the year 1000, these things are NO LONGER excusable.

Yeah, I am. Did you not notice the conditions leading to the eggs being contaminated? Willful negligence of safety in the food supply is willful negligence of safety in the food supply, whether or not the scare comes from sensationalist human feces, or less headline-grabbing salmonella--be in denial all you want, but that salmonella didn't just "happen" to contaminate every supermarket in America like those feces didn't just "happen" to appear in the lard.

The Jungle was published in 1906, in the heart of the industrial revolution, prior to the FDA, and frankly illustrates these American cultural values that you somehow seem to think are superior to the Chinese values when it comes to making stuff and selling it for money.

[Camino LS6]

Really?

You think the values are on a par?

Seriously?

[Drew Dowdell]

China has mobile execution vans for the speedy processing of the condemned and the harvesting of their organs for the black market.

We have capital punishment here too, but at least we have due process to go along with it.

You don't think there is a bit of a "values" difference there?

[balthazar]

On a per capita GDP basis, China is where the US was in about 1925.

Completely immaterial. Knowledge is plentiful and well-documented. Everyone has access to it.

Drugs are recalled all the time for adverse affects on people, even with initial FDA testing & approval. Often, time & expanded sampling reveals the shortcomings and products are changed/banned.

The shortcomings of lead, esp in children's goods, is entirely documented. The very tangible difference here is the span of time- China lacing children's goods with lead goes beyond the ignorance & limited testing of the 1950s and get right into willful assault & chargeable murder in 2010.

China is not a stone-age society, ignorance is not at play here. We must stop making & accepting excuses.

If the U.S. wasn't so indebted to china right now, I believe the repercussions would be markedly different.

[CSpec]

If the U.S. wasn't so indebted to china right now, I believe the repercussions would be markedly different.

China owns 6% of the world supply of US debt.

And yes, China is a stone age society compared to the US. Google some images.

[pow]

Culture and values ≠ Government

Otherwise you'd be seeing the same $h! coming out of the ROC. The appalling work conditions in the PRC and the substandard products coming out of the PRC have more to do with government corruption, lack of regulation, greed from business leaders both from within and outside, and poverty. Most Chinese are still closed to the outside world and only recently have they started opening up. Give time for some reforms to occur, and I think you'll see a drastic difference, or at least in terms of product quality / safety and workers conditions.

Edited January 5, 2011 by pow

[Camino LS6]

Culture and values ≠ Government

Otherwise you'd be seeing the same $h! coming out of the ROC. The appalling work conditions in the PRC and the substandard products coming out of the PRC have more to do with government corruption, lack of regulation, greed from business leaders both from within and outside, and poverty. Most Chinese are still closed to the outside world and only recently have they started opening up. Give time for some reforms to occur, and I think you'll see a drastic difference, or at least in terms of product quality / safety and workers conditions.

I have no argument with any of that. The current reality is another story, however.

[Croc]

Really?

You think the values are on a par?

Seriously?

Back then? Yea. Read The Jungle. China is RIGHT THERE in the same place. Don't forget about the Chinese immigrants who died building the transcontinental railroad. Or the women who died in the Triangle Shirt Factory fire. China is less than a century behind us...but at equivalent places, we're no different. Watch in another 20 years...wonder if China's greed-based crimes will be white collar mortgage fraud?

[CSpec]

Back then? Yea. Read The Jungle. China is RIGHT THERE in the same place. Don't forget about the Chinese immigrants who died building the transcontinental railroad. Or the women who died in the Triangle Shirt Factory fire. China is less than a century behind us...but at equivalent places, we're no different. Watch in another 20 years...wonder if China's greed-based crimes will be white collar mortgage fraud?

Yep, exactly. Japan went through the same process.

[Croc]

Yep, exactly. Japan went through the same process.

Yes it did...you're correct.

[Camino LS6]

Again, so what?

It is 2011, not 1911.

What they are doing is not excusable, it's criminal.

[A Horse With No Name]

Again, so what?

It is 2011, not 1911.

What they are doing is not excusable, it's criminal.

Could not agree with you more, my friend.

[daves87rs]

It's interesting, that is for sure...