The Leaking Wiki

[Blake Noble]

Disclaimer: I know the highly volatile, political nature of this topic.

Please, move it if it gets out of hand. I only ask that someone makes sure I still have access to the thread as it continues.

After work tonight, I went out to eat with a few co-workers. Eventually the small talk settled on the topic of WikiLeaks, something which I had been keeping tabs on, but eventually lost the time to keep track of.

I write this post beyond exhausted, so forgive me for any non-cohesive statements. I will clarify them upon respectful request at any time further on in the thread.

Tonight, I gave myself a crash course on the topic/issue/what have you to refresh my memory on it while also reinforming myself.

I do support whistleblowers and the ilk in face of what can only be described as feckless corruption. The cause is justifiable, the price is never too high. We need people in our global society who will highlight and pinpoint the flaws of any major group or organization and inform people, like you and I, of the lies they propagate.

It's because of these people we are able to fully realize our mistakes and not repeat them and to make positive changes that bode well for our future.

However, I can also see the threat that has been imposed, which has left me with mixed feelings about this whole thing.

Concerning WikiLeaks, with every new chunk of sensitive information it releases, our own government looks less and less appealing and favorable and far more corrupt, and I can certainly say that this is very true on a global scale. We have not, in all honesty, been looked kindly upon during recent times and this is doing further damage to our diplomatic relationships with other countries. The Collateral Murder video, the Cable leak, the documents on our recent Middle Eastern wars ... it doesn't matter which leak you pick out of the group, none of it looks well on our government.

In turn, it doesn't look well on us, the average U.S citizens. As the saying goes, a few bad apples spoil the whole barrel.

I hate to think about the consequences you and I might would have to pay because we have cockroaches calling the shots in office.

For the record, someone should be impeached for instructing our diplomats to engage in espionage.

Another interesting observation I've noticed concerning : Julian Assange seems to have been releasing recent, major leaks in what seems like reverse chronological order. The Iraq War leak ... to the Afghan War leak ... it seems the releases are working backwards. If that's the case, well ... hmmmm ...

[vonVeezelsnider]

it seems the releases are working backwards. If that's the case, well ... hmmmm ...

I don't even want to think about that...

The positive that I *do* see out of the cable leaks, is that it shows behind that behind the scenes, despite the lack of polish, diplomacy *is* working. Sometimes that can be comforting in an age of uncertainty. China being cool with a unified Korean peninsula under Seoul should make everybody breathe just a little easier.

Also, Canadians, in addition to having an 'inferiority complex', also never forget. Anything.

[Croc]

I'm pretty ambivalent on wikiLeaks as well.

[ZL-1]

Disclaimer: I know the highly volatile, political nature of this topic.

^this

I do, however, have two comments:

1. Let's see if people will still be so happy about this 'hero of the truth against bad governments and corporations' the day some idiot detonates a dirty bomb somewhere thanks to $h! like this.

2. It is unbeliveable how stuff like this leaks: the responsibility for those leaks is not Assange's it's the US and other governments/corporations/etc.

Edited December 20, 2010 by ZL-1

[Camino LS6]

It is unbeliveable how stuff like this leaks: the responsibility for those leaks is not Assange's it's the US and other governments/corporations/etc.

This point is key.

Heads should roll over this aspect of the Wikileaks affair.

The damage to US relations with other nations is something we will not see, and I expect that it will be significant.

In time, the content of the leaks will be of less consequence than the simple fact that the leaks were permitted to happen in the first place.

We will be spending a great deal of time restoring trust around the world.

[Croc]

This point is key.

Heads should roll over this aspect of the Wikileaks affair.

The damage to US relations with other nations is something we will not see, and I expect that it will be significant.

In time, the content of the leaks will be of less consequence than the simple fact that the leaks were permitted to happen in the first place.

We will be spending a great deal of time restoring trust around the world.

Ehhhh...despite all the hand-wringing in American media, many of my acquaintances around the globe (including some in the Middle East) have told me that international reaction is more akin to a yawn than anything else. I'm not really worried about it. Honestly, is any of this that much of a surprise to anyone?? It wasn't to me.

[Blake Noble]

This also seems to drive something else home (directly or indirectly, I'm not sure): people seem to be growing increasingly dissatisfied with the job the current majority party is doing in Washington. Indeed our populace wasn't too happy with the rumblings going on with the current minority party before the last round of elections.

If neither party is working correctly enough for us to feel secure, then what's the answer?

I hope soon that we see more political parties make it to office to balance things out. We still mainly have two parties running this circus while we have dozens of other, equal ideological parties trying to get into power that repeatedly get shot down. Why? Well, the first reason is only one word that starts with "m" and ends with "y" ...

[Croc]

Truthfully, the polls really show huge dissatisfaction with the Republican party, and general dissatisfaction with Congress, mainly for not doing enough (which happened due to lack of Presidential leadership and caving to GOP obstructionism). Why those prevailing sentiments turned to gains for Republicans in Congress? Probably had more to do with "I'm pissed so I'm voting for the other guy" more than anything else.

[Camino LS6]

I think that there is a shift coming that both parties are not prepared for.

[SoCalCTS]

I think Julian ASSange is a self serving fool. The stuff he is leaking isn't Earthshaking. He is doing this just to embarass the US government. he's not a whistleblower. He's an extortionist. He hides under freedom of the press but when others chose to exercise their own freedom by not processing his bank accounts, he acts like a spoiled child.

I think whoever gave the data to him should be tried for Treason. That might make people think twice about betraying their own government.

oh and everyone knows Canadians have an inferiority complex... j/k.

[Croc]

I think Julian ASSange is a self serving fool. The stuff he is leaking isn't Earthshaking. He is doing this just to embarass the US government. he's not a whistleblower. He's an extortionist. He hides under freedom of the press but when others chose to exercise their own freedom by not processing his bank accounts, he acts like a spoiled child.

I think whoever gave the data to him should be tried for Treason. That might make people think twice about betraying their own government.

oh and everyone knows Canadians have an inferiority complex... j/k.

If he's an extortionist, what is he trying to gain? I can't for the life of me determine what he's trying to get out of this for personal gain.

Now, where do you draw the line on "betraying their own government"? I mean let's be real here, any Nazi who refused to participate in the Holocaust was betraying his government. Governments are not infallible, and they do authorize bad things from time to time. Where does one draw the line?

Do the leaks make the US Government look bad, or did the US Government do things of questionable ethics/legality that made itself look bad?

I don't know what it is with the DC folks, but they have yet to grasp the concept that in this age, secrets don't stay secret for long. Far better to operate on the up-and-up than to have to rely on people keeping quiet in order to save face.

[Camino LS6]

I believe that the soldier who leaked it to Assange is in custody - and may well be charged,

[siegen]

The stuff he is leaking isn't Earthshaking.

I haven't read up too much on the leaks, but I did watch the video showing our gunship shooting down a dozen Iraqis. I watched the full, unedited version, mostly in disbelief and constantly having to remind myself that this wasn't Call of Duty. To hear how eager and trigger-happy our soldiers were, and how readily they gunned the people down, left me sick to my stomach.

I know that a lot of the stuff that was released is pretty pointless. Minor embarrassment at best. But occasionally there is something that I consider to be very important for people to know and act on. The leaked video really should send a signal to those in charge that the way our soldiers engage in combat needs to change. Our soldiers are how Iraqis view America as a whole, since they are the only bit of America they are exposed to. If they don't trust our soldiers to not accidentally shoot them, how are we supposed to win the hearts and minds of the people?

It only damages our reputation if we don't act on it and change policy.

[SAmadei]

I believe that the soldier who leaked it to Assange is in custody - and may well be charged,

Well, that soldier only leaked a small bit of footage, and was acting as a whisleblower, considering how outrageous the footage is. That soldier has lost his career and likely his freedom and/or life bringing that footage to light.

The rest of the Wikileak stuff, if I understand correctly, comes from other sources.

Of course, its all a moot point leaking it now... while he has not leaked all his info, he has already released an encrypted version of the data, in case something happens to him, a decryption code would be leaked to unlock it. Well, at this point, regardless if that key is released or not, SOMEONE out there will crack the code... it may not be in 5 years or 50... but it will happen. Pandora's box is completely open, but more don't know it yet.

I'm with Ron Paul on this one, so far... more government transparency could have prevented this. By making everything top secret, they have less resources left to protect our true secrets.

[Croc]

Just a minor point of clarification, that full, unedited video showed both innocent people being gunned down as well as two Reuters employees the government had tried to cover-up by lying that the US didn't gun them down. I am in full support of THIS being leaked.

The diplomacy stuff? Eh, I'm a little torn on some of it, but most of it has proven to be innocuous. Most of the "gaffes" could have easily been avoided had our diplomats been far more professional in their internal communications.

[FAPTurbo]

I'm with Ron Paul on this one, so far... more government transparency could have prevented this. By making everything top secret, they have less resources left to protect our true secrets.

I'm for more transparency as well. However, I know this should not be the case, because about three quarters of the world do not play ball with Western virtues, and view our desires of openness and freedom as a weakness to be exploited.

[Camino LS6]

This is the first I've heard of the video.

I saw a report that said that the soldier in question had access to the diplomatic cables and leaked those.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Camino LS6

[balthazar]

Truthfully, the polls really show huge dissatisfaction with the Republican party, and general dissatisfaction with Congress, mainly for not doing enough...

"General dissatisfaction" ?? Approval rating has been below 20% what has to be at least 5 years and the Gallup approval number released this week stands at 13%. That' goes beyond "huge" to 'cataclysmically bad'.

-- -- -- -- --

Frankly, anyone who somehow still believes the Gov is out for the interests of the people and the nation are delusional, IMO.

In other words, assume some degree of corruption (or at the very least ineptitude), and be proven (with verification) otherwise.

The more people think in this manner, the cleaner things will run.

[SoCalCTS]

If he's an extortionist, what is he trying to gain? I can't for the life of me determine what he's trying to get out of this for personal gain.

Now, where do you draw the line on "betraying their own government"? I mean let's be real here, any Nazi who refused to participate in the Holocaust was betraying his government. Governments are not infallible, and they do authorize bad things from time to time. Where does one draw the line?

Do the leaks make the US Government look bad, or did the US Government do things of questionable ethics/legality that made itself look bad?

I don't know what it is with the DC folks, but they have yet to grasp the concept that in this age, secrets don't stay secret for long. Far better to operate on the up-and-up than to have to rely on people keeping quiet in order to save face.

He's a fame monster. His gain is to become a celebrity. He is not. He's infamous.

People who leak government information during a time of war are traitors. Its cut and dry. The soldier who leaked the information could have done so in 5 or 10 years. The truth can come out later when its easier to digest. Secondly, the US government is not Nazi Germany. I dont buy into that tea party crap.

Also, Assange acts like an extortionist because he says, "if you don't realease my websites and money then I will release this encrypted data, attack a major US bank, and do DOS attacks on major US Corporations"

Assange needs to be arrested. He is not a good person.

I am a liberal. I believe in freedom of the press but Assange is nothing more than a thug. He should be arrested. His shadowy band of hackers are nothing more than a terrorist organization.

[Croc]

He's a fame monster. His gain is to become a celebrity. He is not. He's infamous.

Then that's not extortion.

People who leak government information during a time of war are traitors. Its cut and dry. The soldier who leaked the information could have done so in 5 or 10 years. The truth can come out later when its easier to digest. Secondly, the US government is not Nazi Germany. I dont buy into that tea party crap.

What Tea Party crap? I didn't compare the US Government to Nazi Germany, I challenged your assertion by applying your logic to an issue seen from the other perspective. I fail to see what's cut-and-dry. First of all, you originally said anyone who "betrays their government," now you're saying anyone who leaks government info. Which is it? Yeah, he could have waited 5 years. Meanwhile the families of the murdered Reuters employees still lack closure.

Also, Assange acts like an extortionist because he says, "if you don't realease my websites and money then I will release this encrypted data, attack a major US bank, and do DOS attacks on major US Corporations"

That's not extortion since they already cut off his funding without due cause. They violated their own TOS and as a result he is reminding them that he holds some cards too.

Assange needs to be arrested. He is not a good person.

Being an unpleasant/disagreeable/ill-intentioned person is not a crime warranting arrest.

I am a liberal. I believe in freedom of the press but Assange is nothing more than a thug. He should be arrested. His shadowy band of hackers are nothing more than a terrorist organization.

Well in two posts you clearly reveal a strong authoritarian streak demanding blind loyalty to the government without question in a time of war, you want to arrest someone because you don't like them and therefore deny them their due process, and then you play the terrorist/terrorism card...methinks you aren't as liberal as you say/think you are.

I will say, though, this little exchange has erased my ambivalence, and I am now firmly on Assange's side on this, now that I see what he's up against.

[loki]

His shadowy band of hackers are nothing more than a terrorist organization.

his? i doubt he put them up to it... meaning they are just vigilante's for a common cause. typical thought of vigilante in other circumstances, they are out for justice, but with out the justice system's approval.