CAR AND DRIVER $15,000 COMPACTS

[regfootball]

1. Fit

2. Versa

3. Rio

4. Yaris

5. Accent

6. Caliber

7. Reno

07 Aveo was not available for test

Edited April 1, 2006 by regfootball

[regfootball]

0-60/5-60/qtrmile/0-100/observed trip mpg

1. Fit 8.7/9.6/16.7/31.1/35

2. Versa 9.4/10.1/17.0/30.7/28

3. Rio 9.9/10.5/17.3/37.0/30

4. Yaris 8.9/9.5/17.0/30.8/36

5. Accent 10.2/10.8/17.4/32.0/30

6. Caliber 9.7/10.4/17.4/30.6/28

7. Reno 8.7/9.6/16.9/33.1/28

Edited April 1, 2006 by regfootball

[Guest lance armstrong's Testicles]

toyota is gay, they got owned by a f@#king KIA

TOYOTA GOT OWNED BY KIA LOL

[regfootball]

they were just so so on the Yaris. They were all over the Fit, because it won because of its sporty handling basically. I get that mpg is a big part of these cars, but for example, on the Fit, another 30-40 hp would be nice to go with its sport handling. What's the point of good handling if you don't have power to go along with it? So if i lose 3 mpg in return for more fun and power, i can do that.

BTW the 07 Camry Hybrid tested at 37mpg combine on Road and Tracks test and beats all of these crackerboxes.

Edited April 1, 2006 by regfootball

[Cory Wolfe]

Reg... the Fit was the fastest to 60 as well as in the quarter mile. Combine that with its sporty handling and excellent MPG, I don't see what you could possibly complain about. More power? It doesn't need it, obviously. If it did, it wouldn't have been the fastest. Does that make any sense to you what-so-ever? And don't give me any bull about it only being at high RPMs. I know you all too well, by now... Yeah, I got this issue in the mail, and if you compare the RPMs... the redline and where the most hp/torque is made, the Honda isn't close to needing the highest amount of RPMs. In fact, the Caliber called for higher RPMs. Imagine that. Also, even though it was the smallest in exterior dimensions, it bested alot of others in interior dimenions. Not to mention that, personally, it's styled the best. Bland, but not ugly like the others...

[bobo]

On paper, the Caliber looks good, but in real life, the Fit looks much better. The Caliber just seems like a cheap car with tough-looking styling. I even like the Yaris more than the Caliber now. In C/D's review, the point spread is high:

1. Honda Fit 228 (out of 250)

2. Nissan Versa 203

3. Kia Rio5 188

4. Toyota Yaris 185

5. Hyundai Accent 176

6. Dodge Caliber 161

7. Suzuki Reno 160

[regfootball]

Reg... the Fit was the fastest to 60 as well as in the quarter mile. Combine that with its sporty handling and excellent MPG, I don't see what you could possibly complain about. More power? It doesn't need it, obviously. If it did, it wouldn't have been the fastest. Does that make any sense to you what-so-ever? And don't give me any bull about it only being at high RPMs. I know you all too well, by now... Yeah, I got this issue in the mail, and if you compare the RPMs... the redline and where the most hp/torque is made, the Honda isn't close to needing the highest amount of RPMs. In fact, the Caliber called for higher RPMs. Imagine that. Also, even though it was the smallest in exterior dimensions, it bested alot of others in interior dimenions. Not to mention that, personally, it's styled the best. Bland, but not ugly like the others...

my prizm weighed as much as the fit but had btter times and more power (125hp) but yet was inadequate for all the types of driving I and most people do. 8.7=too slow

It currently cute and trendy for the road to be sold now with little crackerboxes because gas went up so much last year. Go back 5-10 years ago when everyone decided they needed large SUV's. Now its just an SUV backlash + high gas prices. The small car thing is just a reaction to the SUV and high gas prices. No one really wants cars like this long term. Inevitably it will cycle around again and most folks will remember the middle (mid sized vehicles) is where they want to be. Real usable power on freeways and interstates, adequate passenger and cargo space, and long term durability and good crash safety.

If anything in crackerboxes like this shows the need for more speed to avoid accidents.

Edited April 2, 2006 by regfootball

[siegen]

the need for more speed to avoid accidents.

[enzl]

my prizm weighed as much as the fit but had btter times and more power (125hp) but yet was inadequate for all the types of driving I and most people do.    8.7=too slow

It currently cute and trendy for the road to be sold now with little crackerboxes because gas went up so much last year.  Go back 5-10 years ago when everyone decided they needed large SUV's.  Now its just an SUV backlash + high gas prices.  The small car thing is just a reaction to the SUV and high gas prices.  No one really wants cars like this long term. Inevitably it will cycle around again and most folks will remember the middle (mid sized vehicles) is where they want to be.  Real usable power on freeways and interstates, adequate passenger and cargo space, and long term durability and good crash safety.

If anything in crackerboxes like this shows the need for more speed to avoid accidents.

...sounds like you don't use these vehicles as intended....short, city centered journeys...they sell these kinds of vehicles in Europe, they share the roads with plenty of Trucks and larger cars...The quality and quantity of choice amazed me when I read the article...

[regfootball]

...sounds like you don't use these vehicles as intended....short, city centered journeys...they sell these kinds of vehicles in Europe, they share the roads with plenty of Trucks and larger cars...The quality and quantity of choice amazed me when I read the article...

if your just driving from your overpriced little urban 'loft' LOL.....to the grocery store in the suburb once a week (because everyone knows there are no supermarkets in the hood) then sure, if you never go over 50mph and never venture onto an interstate or freeway then yeah you can likely get by with one of these deals

Edited April 3, 2006 by regfootball

[Flybrian]

On the down side, the Reno bottomed out dead last. On the up side, now more than twenty-seven people will be aware of the Reno.

Suzuki should put this in the 'win' column.

[enzl]

if your just driving from your overpriced little urban 'loft' LOL.....to the grocery store in the suburb once a week (because everyone knows there are no supermarkets in the hood) then sure, if you never go over 50mph and never venture onto an interstate or freeway then yeah you can likely get by with one of these deals

I'm assuming that's some sort of put-down for city-dwellers. It's hard to take that too personally from an individual who doesn't know the difference between your and you're....perhaps the quality of schooling in your 'hood' is to blame?

The cars are designed for occassional highway use (just like in Europe, Japan, etc...)...or from your home to the mall...the implication being that they may not be a good choice for a single vehicle family- sorry, I'll point out the obvious for your sake from now on.

[ToniCipriani]

Wonder why they didn't test a Cobalt value package...

But sort of expected for the Yaris. It isn't that much changed from the old one.

Edited April 3, 2006 by ToniCipriani

[Variance]

FYI, I bought the magazine if anyone wants specifics.

[regfootball]

I'm assuming that's some sort of put-down for city-dwellers. It's hard to take that too personally from an individual who doesn't know the difference between your and you're....perhaps the quality of schooling in your 'hood' is to blame?

The cars are designed for occassional highway use (just like in Europe, Japan, etc...)...or from your home to the mall...the implication being that they may not be a good choice for a single vehicle family- sorry, I'll point out the obvious for your sake from now on.

let me take the opportunity to point out then just how many Americans drive buttloads of miles every day and on rural interstates and high speed in town freeways. On horribly beat up roads and in an extreme hot and cold temps. About 3 or 4 hard MN winters on frozen potholes and that Fit is toast, I bet.

I bet the majority of Americans are averaging at least 18,000 hard miles a year on their cars or more. Aside from my wife I know of at least 4 others off the top of my head who exceed the 25,000 a year my wife is racking up. My one buddy is pacing 30k a year on the used Volvo he bought. Another buddy has racked up over 45,000 in 18 months on his Astro (which by the way is getting quite beat).

you hit it on the mark 'occasional highway use'. i.e. its an 'occasional car'. in that light, 109hp is fine, its more than the lawn mower. Oh wait, the neighbors forced you to get a reel mower....hmmmmm.

I am just basically pointing out how we are NOT Europe. Fine if they bring it over as is then, just realize we are spread out a lot more and in order to keep up with traffic that is frequently 15mph over posted limits.....well, you get the picture.

the extra 20hp you need to get out of the way before the Excursion T bones you may indeed be neccessary someday.

It certainly wouldn't hurt Honda to adapt to our market and at least pump up the hp a little as an option. then at least the car is usable for more than just trips to the psychiatrist down the street.

I do commend Honda for making the handling sport oriented, its quite welcome in this segment. Sure, if the fit is a 10,000 mile a year car or is your second or third car, then its a good deal. I am just saying all this attention on this class right now is not because this is what people actually want continually, its because of a large upturn in gas prices.

Edited April 4, 2006 by regfootball

[CSpec]

I bet the majority of Americans are averaging at least 18,000 hard miles a year on their cars or more.

It's actually about 13,000.

[siegen]

let me take the opportunity to point out then just how many Americans drive buttloads of miles every day and on rural interstates and high speed in town freeways.  On horribly beat up roads and in an extreme hot and cold temps.  About 3 or 4 hard MN winters on frozen potholes and that Fit is toast, I bet.

What makes you think this car won't be able to handle what any ordinary Escort or Civic already has for the last several decades? This car isn't some milk carton, it weighs in above 2400 lbs (2551 for the 5sp Auto Sport model). It's not going to fly away in the wind or break a control arm the first pot hole it goes over.

you hit it on the mark 'occasional highway use'.  i.e. its an 'occasional car'.  in that light, 109hp is fine

So a car has to have a lot of horsepower to be a regular use car? Is it possible that this car can accelerate adequately as is? Did you know a peak HP number doesn't tell everything about a car?

It certainly wouldn't hurt Honda to adapt to our market and at least pump up the hp a little

They did.

[regfootball]

It's actually about 13,000.

source then, please

[Intrepidation]

let me take the opportunity to point out then just how many Americans drive buttloads of miles every day and on rural interstates and high speed in town freeways.  On horribly beat up roads and in an extreme hot and cold temps.  About 3 or 4 hard MN winters on frozen potholes and that Fit is toast, I bet.

I bet the majority of Americans are averaging at least 18,000 hard miles a year on their cars or more.  Aside from my wife I know of at least 4 others off the top of my head who exceed the 25,000  a year my wife is racking up.  My one buddy is pacing 30k a year on the used Volvo he bought.  Another buddy has racked up over 45,000 in 18 months on his Astro (which by the way is getting quite beat).

you hit it on the mark 'occasional highway use'.  i.e. its an 'occasional car'.  in that light, 109hp is fine, its more than the lawn mower.  Oh wait, the neighbors forced you to get a reel mower....hmmmmm.

I am just basically pointing out how we are NOT Europe.  Fine if they bring it over as is then, just realize we are spread out a lot more and in order to keep up with traffic that is frequently 15mph over posted limits.....well, you get the picture.

the extra 20hp you need to get out of the way before the Excursion T bones you may indeed be neccessary someday.

It certainly wouldn't hurt Honda to adapt to our market and at least pump up the hp a little as an option.  then at least the car is usable for more than just trips to the psychiatrist down the street.

I do commend Honda for making the handling sport oriented, its quite welcome in this segment.  Sure, if the fit is a 10,000 mile a year car or is your second or third car, then its a good deal.  I am just saying all this attention on this class right now is not because this is what people actually want continually, its because of a large upturn in gas prices.

I'm not sure if you happen to think it's just the Fit or all small cars will, for example, break a control arm on the first pothole they hit, can't do more than 10k miles a year, won't survive a couple winters, are all underpowered, and can't keep up with highway traffic. I got news for ya: they can and do.

My Shadow qualifies as a subcompact...it's not the turbo model so the 2.5's speedo only goes up to 85mph but that's fine for now. I take that car on 30 minute drives (an hour total) to college and from every day of the week, going 45-70 depending on how slow the traffic is in front of me (and how many cops are around ) I probably average 55mph on the trips. I take it on the highway, easily keeping up with traffic. It may not accelerate like it's on fire, but again, it does a fine job. The area I live in is full of potholes and road imperfections..and I've probably hit the vast majority of them at one point or another...but nohing has broken. And as for the "not surviving winter" bit...It's been through 17 years of New England winters...snow, ice, sleet, freezing rain, sub-zero temps, rocksalt...yeah aside from some rust on the driver's door I think it's done pretty well.

The whole point of that little story isn't to portray my Shadow as like the ubercar...just that small cars can do just fine, even the older ones. The Fit's got a 5-speed auto...2 more gears than what I've got...roomy interior, sporty handling, and more hp than my 2.5 has. I think it'll do fine. Would I buy it? nah...While the power it has is fine for most people, the 300 hp Caliber SRT-4 is what I want..plus it looks cooler than the Fit. You may think the Fit needs more power for your tastes, which is fine, cuz that's how I am...gotta have more power But at the same time it's got plenty to get the job done. Highway or city.

Edited April 4, 2006 by Dodgefan

[ToniCipriani]

The definition of compact and subcompact is different back then and now.

The Cavalier was considered both subcompact and compact at different times.

[Intrepidation]

The definition of compact and subcompact is different back then and now.

The Cavalier was considered both subcompact and compact at different times.

Still a small car. And since they through in a Caliber into the test, which I'm sure is bigger than the other cars, my point remains valid.

[frogger]

Wow best performance and fuel economy, quite the accomplishment.

It seems faster than a lot of SUV's, minivans and about as quick as most midsize sedans.. especially those built around the turn of the century.

I remember when the Civic Si was 108hp in the mid-nineties, it was a hoot to drive.

[Chicagoland]

Caliber is too big to compare to thie others. Again, glad I cancelled the rag.

[Domesticated]

Had the Aveo been present, I think it would have made the Fit look like a foolish pick for the test. It is clearly THE standard at which all these other "crackerboxes" (Love that term!) should be and will be measured. BTW, The "$h!" is just that if you don't read the Import Humping rags out there. They were probably paid off! Anyone smart person knows that the little Honda is an overpriced Aveo wannabe. And any moron who buys a $h! will realize it sooner or later that they made a poor choice.

They'll learn... In the meantime, it'll be fun blowing the Fithead weenies off the road. How's that tree taste?

[siegen]

Had the Aveo been present, I think it would have made the Fit look like a foolish pick for the test. It is clearly THE standard at which all these other "crackerboxes" (Love that term!) should be and will be measured. BTW, The "$h!" is just that if you don't read the Import Humping rags out there. They were probably paid off! Anyone smart person knows that the little Honda is an overpriced Aveo wannabe. And any moron who buys a $h! will realize it sooner or later that they made a poor choice.

They'll learn... In the meantime, it'll be fun blowing the Fithead weenies off the road. How's that tree taste?

Deep down, you know you want a Fit You can't resist!

[Northstar]

The one problem with the current Aveo is that for it's size it doesn't get very good gas mileage. However, it still is the best seller in its probably based on entry price. If the new Aveo gets comparable mileage to the Yaris and Fit, I see no reason for it not to sell even better.

[Intrepidation]

Had the Aveo been present, I think it would have made the Fit look like a foolish pick for the test. It is clearly THE standard at which all these other "crackerboxes" (Love that term!) should be and will be measured. BTW, The "$h!" is just that if you don't read the Import Humping rags out there. They were probably paid off! Anyone smart person knows that the little Honda is an overpriced Aveo wannabe. And any moron who buys a $h! will realize it sooner or later that they made a poor choice.

They'll learn... In the meantime, it'll be fun blowing the Fithead weenies off the road. How's that tree taste?

You're posts are so entertaining to read

In that marginaly faster G6 I assume? Probably 2 seconds faster...I bet you an SRT-4 would blow the doors off it

As for the Aveo...hmm I have to agree that it's at least better looking, but I doubt it handles as well...Perhaps the redesigned Aveo handles better...gotta wait for a road test on it.

[enzl]

Had the Aveo been present, I think it would have made the Fit look like a foolish pick for the test. It is clearly THE standard at which all these other "crackerboxes" (Love that term!) should be and will be measured. BTW, The "$h!" is just that if you don't read the Import Humping rags out there. They were probably paid off! Anyone smart person knows that the little Honda is an overpriced Aveo wannabe. And any moron who buys a $h! will realize it sooner or later that they made a poor choice.

They'll learn... In the meantime, it'll be fun blowing the Fithead weenies off the road. How's that tree taste?

Where's the LOL ?

C'mon, dude. The Fit is universally regarded as a top competitor in its segment, worldwide! (In its 5th year of production, BTW)

The Aveo isn't even a real Chevy (designed & built entirely by Daewoo, pre-GM purchase).

Let's assume it wasn't tested at all for two rreasons: '07 is much improved, current one isn't truly competitive (I should know, we sell 'em!)

[LTB51]

Where's the LOL ?

He thinks his G6 with half a dozen problems in the first year is a model of reliability instead of the lemon that it is. His view of reality seems a little "different".

C'mon, dude. The Fit is universally regarded as a top competitor in its segment, worldwide! (In its 5th year of production, BTW)

The Aveo isn't even a real Chevy (designed & built entirely by Daewoo, pre-GM purchase).

Let's assume it wasn't tested at all for two rreasons: '07 is much improved, current one isn't truly competitive (I should know, we sell 'em!)

Would the current one be any more competitive? Fuel economy doesn't seem up to par. I doubt the 0-60 or handling would be better than the Fit. Fit and finish won't be. Price is the only real advantage I can see, and I doubt that would win this competition (but it might win some buyers who just want the least expensive car they can find).

One of the items that hasn't been commented on is the level of standard safety features on the Fit is going to change this whole segment.

Edited April 13, 2006 by LTB51

[LTB51]

BTW the 07 Camry Hybrid tested at 37mpg combine on Road and Tracks test and beats all of these crackerboxes.

Don't let it out that hybrids offer very good fuel economy. It might upset some people that have bought the "We're not in the game so the game is bad" line from GM, Nissan, etc.

I'll save someone the effort and state the obvious but irrelevant point, "But they get nowhere near their EPA estimates!" and the old stand by, "That's nothing. I once had a 1980s IROC-Z that got 55 MPG one time on the highway for a stretch of 25 miles."

[Domesticated]

He thinks his G6 with half a dozen problems in the first year is a model of reliability instead of the lemon that it is.  His view of reality seems a little "different".

Would the current one be any more competitive?  Fuel economy doesn't seem up to par.  I doubt the 0-60 or handling would be better than the Fit.  Fit  and finish won't be.  Price is the only real advantage I can see, and I doubt that would win this competition (but it might win some buyers who just want the least expensive car they can find).

One of the items that hasn't been commented on is the level of standard safety features on the Fit is going to change this whole segment.

Half a dozen problems? I've mentioned 4 and I wouldn't call them problems. They are just minor neuscances and they were fixed by the boys here at the shop. The drive more than makes up for them anyways and I laugh at the posers who paid too much for their BMW's and Acura's. I'll smoke them all day long.

The Aveo would have cleaned up in this test had it been actually included. I bet C&D knew that too and made sure that the Aveo DIDN'T make it. Probably were paid by Honda to win this test

[Intrepidation]

Half a dozen problems? I've mentioned 4 and I wouldn't call them problems. They are just minor neuscances and they were fixed by the boys here at the shop. The drive more than makes up for them anyways and I laugh at the posers who paid too much for their BMW's and Acura's. I'll smoke them all day long.

The Aveo would have cleaned up in this test had it been actually included. I bet C&D knew that too and made sure that the Aveo DIDN'T make it. Probably were paid by Honda to win this test

You know for such a domestic humper, who hates anything foeign, including Koreans, you do realize the Aveo is nothing more than a Daewoo with a Chevy badge. You know a RWD BMW or RWD anything will be more fun to drive than a FWD G6 right? Hell, even the FWD SRT-4 is faster and more fun (I'll take that over a G6 anyday).

[Domesticated]

You know for such a domestic humper, who hates anything foeign, including Koreans, you do realize the Aveo is nothing more than a Daewoo with a Chevy badge. You know a RWD BMW or RWD anything will be more fun to drive than a FWD G6 right? Hell, even the FWD SRT-4 is faster and more fun (I'll take that over a G6 anyday).

I don't like the fact that it is built by Koreans, but in the end it helps out General Motors so I'll accept it. Besides, it helps GM get more of a strangle-hold on the rest of the world. Just like Buicks leadership in China, GM's leadership will spread farther than the US market IMO. When the rest of the worlds' Automakers are put out of business, GM's dominance will be unstoppable.

Crack open the bottles of wine boys, it's only a matter of time.

[Cory Wolfe]

Domesticated is good for one thing and one thing only... a laugh. Thanks, man... you always make me fall on the floor laughing.

[Intrepidation]

Domesticated is good for one thing and one thing only... a laugh. Thanks, man... you always make me fall on the floor laughing.

Domesticated =

[ShadowDog]

On the down side, the Reno bottomed out dead last. On the up side, now more than twenty-seven people will be aware of the Reno.

Suzuki should put this in the 'win' column.

LOL and you know what the funny thing is, by the numbers, the Reno performed better than all but the Fit outside of 0-100 and MPG ratings. The engine is reported as a 126 HP (+/-) DOHC four-banger, but is rated as 119 in Canada for the Chevy Optra5. The people on the board I frequent are up in arms of this kind of test, wondering how the car could possibly rate so low when the performance numbers are so good (by comparison). The sedan and hatchback are sold in many different makes all over the world. Hell, in China, it's a Buick!

1. Fit 8.7/9.6/16.7/31.1/35

2. Versa 9.4/10.1/17.0/30.7/28

3. Rio 9.9/10.5/17.3/37.0/30

4. Yaris 8.9/9.5/17.0/30.8/36

5. Accent 10.2/10.8/17.4/32.0/30

6. Caliber 9.7/10.4/17.4/30.6/28

7. Reno 8.7/9.6/16.9/33.1/28

Fuel mileage blows on these cars (Reno / Forenza / Optra5), I know for a fact since my wife's Optra5 averages 23 MPG US. Consumption on the highway is average, but is nowhere near as rated in the city. There are a couple minor quirks that could have been resolved without the Holden engine, but the ZF tranny is excellent. I like the interior and overall styling in general; and the car has been an extremely satisfying purchase.

It doesn't handle extremely well; however, much of that was attributed to the soft sidewall tires. We don't drive it like we stole it anyway; and accident avoidance has been put to the test, I think it passed...I mean, I didn't harm the car when that happened. Many have replaced them with stock sizing of different makes and the handling improved dramatically. Saftey is a concern, given the Forenza's poor side-impact ratings.

All things considered, it's a fine car. What makes it absolutely better than the others is reasonably subjective, IMO. Oh well, to each their own anyway.

Edited April 13, 2006 by ShadowDog

[sciguy_0504]

I kind of like the Reno but the fuel mileage does suck for what it is. I don't know if any of you noticed on the news (I saw it on Foxnews.com) but Nissan updated and lowered the Versa's MPG. I think it went from 38 to 33.

[Domesticated]

Being that Suzuki is under GM, it should have won. Even though it's Japanese it still helps us out financially. I still say the Aveo was purposely left out of the test so the others weren't totally degraded... More Auto Rag BS leaving out the real winners.

[pow]

Being that Suzuki is under GM, it should have won. Even though it's Japanese   it still helps us out financially. I still say the Aveo was purposely left out of the test so the others weren't totally degraded... More Auto Rag BS leaving out the real winners.

Damn, each post is getting more and more ridiculous.

[Mr.Krinkle]

i just traded my citation for a brand new suziki and got money back. you believe that $h!?

[The O.C.]

The drive more than makes up for them anyways and I laugh at the posers who paid too much for their BMW's and Acura's. I'll smoke them all day long.

C'mon....we're not going to go THERE again are we?

I'd love for you to show me any BMW sedan that can't smoke YOUR G6......in fact, if the X3 SUV has a manual, even IT will smoke your G6.....(C&D.....7.4secs 0-60 X3 3.0 6-speed.....7.9secs G6 GT.)

AND show me any Acura (except MDX) that can't smoke your G6......

Wanna go there again? I could play this game with you ALL day long and still come ahead....

[Flybrian]

AND show me any Acura (except MDX) that can't smoke your G6......

Any Acura driven by...

[pow]

C'mon....we're not going to go THERE again are we?

I'd love for you to show me any BMW sedan that can't smoke YOUR G6......in fact, if the X3 SUV has a manual, even IT will smoke your G6.....(C&D.....7.4secs 0-60 X3 3.0 6-speed.....7.9secs G6 GT.)

AND show me any Acura (except MDX) that can't smoke your G6......

Wanna go there again?  I could play this game with you ALL day long and still come ahead....

Woa, woa, woa, don't be unreasonable now. Our 240-hp Odyssey does 0-60 in 7.5. I can't see how a lighter, 265-hp, AWD MDX can't be even quicker.

[CARBIZ]

Now is that 240 real hp., or the Honda imaginary horsepower?

[The O.C.]

Woa, woa, woa, don't be unreasonable now. Our 240-hp Odyssey does 0-60 in 7.5. I can't see how a lighter, 265-hp, AWD MDX can't be even quicker.

I don't remember what MDX does 0-60.....and since I didn't remember, I didn't wanna put a bullseye on myself for him for ANY reason......

[Mr.Krinkle]

dont forget...its not what you drive, etc.... that 3800 is a great motor especially when wound up the right way. any car with that engine, i think, can take off like nobodies business. numbers dont always tell the whole story.

[Robert Hall]

if your just driving from your overpriced little urban 'loft' LOL.....to the grocery store in the suburb once a week (because everyone knows there are no supermarkets in the hood) then sure, if you never go over 50mph and never venture onto an interstate or freeway then yeah you can likely get by with one of these deals

Nah, a BMW or SUV is for that.. (speaking from experience of living in a loft downtown but working & shopping in the 'burbs..)

Edited April 15, 2006 by moltar

[04monteintimidator]

I'd love for you to show me any BMW sedan that can't smoke YOUR G6......in fact, if the X3 SUV has a manual, even IT will smoke your G6

well that depends which one he has... if hes got the 240 horse coupe... and it performs similar to my monte... he'll smoke a 325 and a 330... ive done it... dont know about an X3 tho...

[The O.C.]

dont forget...its not what you drive, etc....  that 3800 is a great motor especially when wound up the right way. any car with that engine, i think, can take off like nobodies business. numbers dont always tell the whole story.

....WAS a great motor....

But it's ability to "take off like nobodies business" is kinda true but actually a bit over-rated....

I've told a stoplight-grandprix-story before when I had my Mazda6 company car (V6, 5-speed) and how I easily outran a late-generation Camaro 3800V6 from a dead stop.....withOUT even dumping my clutch.

I took off normally in first gear, he jumped on it....so I did then....and easily pulled past him through the gears and by the time I let off around 80, I had pulled 2-3 car lengths.

I think his was an automatic because it didn't appear he was "shifting" a manual transmission....but I know it was a 3800 because it was like the last year "base" Camaro with the "new" flush headlights, etc....

I only mention this because with my "high-revving" DOHC/multi-valve V6, I should have had more of a low-rpm, low-speed deficit compared to the "torquey" pushrod 3800V6 Camaro....

BUT the case is....my car revs so much quicker, I was up into my powerband quickly.....somewhat negating his low-end-torque advantage. AND as speeds increased, my more-high-RPM power seriously took over....where as at 70-80mph he was tapped out (relatively speaking.)

[Flybrian]

So what? You beat NOS. Feel good about yourself?