Cadillac engine sharing with other divisions of GM

[dado]

How would you guys feel if top engine in Cadillac top model wasn't a same engine as the one in Corvette rather it was engine coming from other manufacturer, for example Lotus, or engine made just for Cadillac?

Reading about new Lotus models i came across this article "New engine from Lotus". In text there is explanation why there are thinking about their own v8

Bahar also revealed that customer reaction to the new Esprit being powered by a Toyota V8, as was originally planned, was behind the decision.

“In the mind of sports-car enthusiasts, Toyota power might not be good enough,” he said.

But the final decision on whether Lotus will green light the cash for engine development will be taken at the end of January. “The decision then will be purely financial,” said Bahar.

Could Cadillac face the same problem in near future? If there will be luxury RWD sedan above CTS maybe potential buyers will think that the engine from Corvette, Chevrolet RWD sedan , some pickup truck or SUV, is not good enough for top model Cadillac?

I'm not saying here DOHC is better than CIB engine or something like that. But i'm saying that maybe GM could develop engine that is different enough in buyer's eyes. It can be version based on GEN 5 but different displacement than the engine in corvette, truck etc., corvette, truck etc. Mabe cam in cam design just for Cadillac engine. Make it diferent enough. Or GM could buy V8 from Lotus. Or even invest in development of new V8 with Lotus and have version of this new v8 for top end Cadillac.

Edited December 16, 2010 by dado

[Carguy]

I would love a Cadillac exclusive V8 engine. Due to the snob appeal of the competitors DOHC V8's that would be the most likely answer for Cadillac. So with that why not do DOHC heads for the small block with DI and a next gen AFM system using the next gen block? This could be unique from the Chevrolet truck/car SB's OHV configuration and also be a premium GMC Denali package opt along with a higher performance opt Corvette model. With a 5.5L 425HP version as the opt non V engine in the next CTS and a more powerful 6.0L version for the top end Cadillac sedan model this could work.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Carguy

[Drew Dowdell]

Put Cam In Cam SOHC heads onto the 5.5 small block.

[Carguy]

Put Cam In Cam SOHC heads onto the 5.5 small block.

Interesting idea!!

[Drew Dowdell]

I like it for being both technologically advanced AND something that sets it apart from what everyone else is doing AND offering a performance advantage.

[FAPTurbo]

Yeah but it'll still be terrible because it won't be paired to a twenty speed 'ZF' transmission made from the recycled sheetmetal of five Sonata Turbo's. So obviously GM fails, and should not bother making Cadillac compete with anything over 25K.

[Carguy]

I could see an entire line of Cadillac exclusive engines with Cam-in-Cam SOHC heads using AFM and DI. Take the still built 3.9L ohv 60 degree V6 and replace the heads with these and according intake. Use that to replace the 3.6L HFV6 in Cadillac's lineup then do a SB based 4.9L V8 C-in-C SOHC and then a larger 5.9L V8 version for premium Cadillac models. A unique New CADILLAC Engine line using mostly existing components to save cost. Let the 3.0-3.6L HFV6 be used for Chevrolet and Buick models allowing Cadillac something unique to offer!

CTS. 3.9L 330HP Cam-in-Cam SOHC V6 std.

4.9L 400HP C-in-C-----SOHC V8 opt.

XTS 3.9L 330HP C-in-C-----SOHC V6.

Replacement

STS 3.9L 330HP C-in-C-----SOHC V6 std.

4.9L 400HP C-in-C-----SOHC V8 opt.

STS

Plus/LWB

4.9L 400HP C-in-C-----SOHC V8 std.

5.9L 475HP C-in-C-----SOHC V8 opt.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Carguy

[dwightlooi]

I look at it differently. I don't think the Caddy V8 should try to ilk out another 20~30 horses over the Corvette engine. I mean really, whatever the Corvette engine puts out, it'll be "enough".

What I'll like to see is additional features that enhances refinement in the Caddy engine. This can be a balance shaft in the oil pan. It can be an acoustic skirt around the block -- a perforated honeycomb sandwich like those used in the engine casing of commercial turbofan engines comes to mind. It can be a dual length intake. Or, even something simple like switching from a composite intake assembly to a cast magnesium or aluminum one (metal ones are quieter).

Also, the engine should -- dressed up or not -- look different from the Corvette version.

[Carguy]

I look at it differently. I don't think the Caddy V8 should try to ilk out another 20~30 horses over the Corvette engine. I mean really, whatever the Corvette engine puts out, it'll be "enough".

What I'll like to see is additional features that enhances refinement in the Caddy engine. This can be a balance shaft in the oil pan. It can be an acoustic skirt around the block -- a perforated honeycomb sandwich like those used in the engine casing of commercial turbofan engines comes to mind. It can be a dual length intake. Or, even something simple like switching from a composite intake assembly to a cast magnesium or aluminum one (metal ones are quieter).

Also, the engine should -- dressed up or not -- look different from the Corvette version.

I dont disagree with you on the power front and I would like your refinements on my proposed Cadillac engine lineup above. It seems Cadillac needs something unique from other GM brands to be premium in scope and image!

[regfootball]

I am all for a Lotus and Caddy joint venture clean sheet DOHC engine for Cadillac application. No recycled truck motors for Caddy.

[hyperv6]

As I have seen the Cadillac issue on engines. If you want people to pay more you need to give them more.

Just dropping in a Vette engine as is would not be enough for the high line cars. You may get away with it in the ATS and CTS but if they plan to to bigger, better and more expensive car they need to improve things a little just from a marketing point alone.

The ATS and CTS can share with other GM lines but even there I would like to see at least dome changes in the engine dress up.

The larger and more expensive larger cars need to be given something exculsive. If they want to go the Small block route give the engines a little more power. The more HP is not a threat to the Vette as they will still be moving 2 tons or better.

Now in a Flagship car it had better be something special if you going to claim World Class and expect someone to plunk down 6 figures plus.

You can still use the small block but it better not be just a hold over from the Caprice wagon or even the SS sedan. Holden has some real nice limted engines in the HSV line or even something Cadillac can make and share with the HSV line. Either way this needs to be a limited special SBC if it is a flagship.

Or they can broker a deal for a DOHC engine with another MFG. Something shared with the other MFG. We already have had Chevys with Honda engines and Hondas with Buicks etc. How about A Bently W engine packing some real HP. In the future with limited engines and other cars most of these small MFG like BMW, Aston and Lotus will need dance partners for development funds. They need to spread the cost out. This is a good time to make a good partnership with some of these people and share cost to make special cars.

But to put in just a stock Vette engine into a car and charge a lot of money for is silly. You can buy a used Police car in a year or two when a department sells off a used Caprice and get the same thing. Though the back seat may not be as comfortable.

This is one of the Problems Pontiac faced in the later years with the Trans Am vs Z28. The Trans Am should have offered a few more ponies under the hood for the extra price they charges. All we got were Pop Up headlamps and red dash lights.

It is not a sin to base an engine off the Chevy but it is total failure to offer the identical engine unchanged in a much higher priced Cadillac. If you want to convince your car is better than anyone else in class then make the damn thing better.

In this class many People know the differance between $hit and Shineola.

Edited December 16, 2010 by hyperv6

[balthazar]

Yea- I never could understand the move to put a toyoyo 4-banger in a Lotus. Image-wise, that's a LCD in a HCD.

To follow it up with a proposed toyoyo V-8 flagship?? No way

Cadillac needs to build it's own motors, and one co-engineered with Lotus is not going to gain any traction in Cadillac's segment, IMO.

[smk4565]

I think the 3.6 V6 could use some refinement, that would help Cadillac and the other brands as well. I don't see a problem with lower end Cadillac's sharing engines, especially when in a Cadillac it makes 304 hp and in a Buick 280. As you go up the price ladder though, you do have to offer more than what's in a Chevy. If Cadillac doesn't make their own unique engine (like when they had the Northstar) I'd rather see Cadillac buy engines off AMG than use Corvette engines.

I'd like to see a V12, why stop at V8. And to appease the greenies, a 300 hp/50 mpg hybrid-diesel drivetrain.

[hyperv6]

Hmmm!

I believe GM is going to work with Ilmor again in Indy car engines. How about a joint effort with them to build a special engine for the flag ship and other high end Cadillac's. This way it has a racing heritage and a company that is noted for low volume high performance engineering.

I am sure Roger Penske would be more than happy to help since I believe is still the largest Cadillac dealer in the world and has tight control on Ilmor.

They could even tie this into the world speed Challange with the CTS V and a special edition in the like of a AMG Black.

Edited December 17, 2010 by hyperv6

[balthazar]

Buying complete engines from your competition is admitting engineering defeat.

[dwightlooi]

For the Flagship, I have always been a proponent of doing a 7.2 liter V12 based on the 3.6 DI V6, but with a new double length block casting and crankshaft...

Name: Cadillac Symphony V12

Type: 60 deg V12

Valvetrain: Chain Driven DOHC 48-valve; Dual VVT

Construction: Aluminum block and heads

Fuel Injection: Direct Gasoline Injection

Bore x Stroke: 94 x 85.6 mm

Capacity: 7128 cc

Bore Center: 103 mm

Compression ratio: 11.3:1

Power Output: 600 hp @ 6200 rpm

Torque Output: 550 lb @ 4800 rpm

Maximum Engine Speed: 6200 rpm

Fuel Grade: 91 Octane (Recommended); 87 Octane (Required)

Transmission: GM Hydramatic 6L90 (6-speed Automatic)

Differential: 149hp Rear Differential Motor/Generator*

Fuel Economy: 16 mpg (City) / 22 mpg (Hwy) (5300 lbs Cadillac Flagship)

* Derived from Chevy Volt Main Propulsion Motor. Provides an additional 273 lb-ft @ 0 mph and 149 hp at 70 mph. Energy supplied by and recovers to a 4 kWh Li-Ion Battery Pack. In Eco Mode, the motor can provide electric only propulsion at low throttle for up to 5 miles.

Edited December 17, 2010 by dwightlooi

[ZL-1]

I am all for a Lotus and Caddy joint venture clean sheet DOHC engine for Cadillac application.

I'd like to see that happen; Lotus has immense engineering know-how. And they are looking into developing their own V8 so partnering with someone elsemight create enough volume to make it a good project.

[hyperv6]

Buying complete engines from your competition is admitting engineering defeat.

No one complained that Lotus designed the 80's ZR1 and Merc Marine built it.

While a V12 is cool I am not sure if that is the right way to go. GM needs to avoid the mistakes Benz made with the Maybach. I would hate to see GM have to offer the rebates that were offered on the Maybach. $30,000. More is not alway the solution.

I have never been a fan of graftying two engines into one. Not many great engines in history have been created that way. I am not saying they can't do it but it is difficult to get it right vs a pourpose built V12. The Slant 4 Pontiac sounded like a good idea at one time too. So did the 4.3 V6 and it was never close to right till they got the balance shafts into it.

GM needs to look at the best and most advanced engines and come up with something that is as good and does not reak of a cop out grafting and mending of a truck or Malibu engine.

To do this right GM and someone else[Lotus, BMW, Ilmore, Cosworth or other independent company] need to partner to develope this jointly. Then they can work to make it in low Volume at a profit. The engine in the flag ship is like a part of a cake. You screw up the frosting the cake no matter how good it is sucks.

[dado]

No one complained that Lotus designed the 80's ZR1 and Merc Marine built it.

That is cool looking engine -Lt 5

Question is-if there will be new Lotus v8 engine what kind of engine will it be. Will it be a v8 with small displacement and hp at high rpm (since it would be an engine for sport car not 2+ tonne luxury sedan). Or if it is developed together some sort of 4.5-5.5 l v8 with capability of turbocharging for heavier sedan and natural aspired high revv engine for lighter sports car.

[regfootball]

any caddy v8 should be 4.5 to 5.0 litres.

perhaps with the ability to be modded to 6.0 litres.

a lotus and gm tie up on the v8 would add euro cred for caddy since folks in and outside the US feel GM has no ability to produce a quality motor by themselves (read:Europeans). If caddy ever wants in in Europe again they will need to have an angle like this with the euros.

[regfootball]

No one complained that Lotus designed the 80's ZR1 and Merc Marine built it.

While a V12 is cool I am not sure if that is the right way to go. GM needs to avoid the mistakes Benz made with the Maybach. I would hate to see GM have to offer the rebates that were offered on the Maybach. $30,000. More is not alway the solution.

I have never been a fan of graftying two engines into one. Not many great engines in history have been created that way. I am not saying they can't do it but it is difficult to get it right vs a pourpose built V12. The Slant 4 Pontiac sounded like a good idea at one time too. So did the 4.3 V6 and it was never close to right till they got the balance shafts into it.

GM needs to look at the best and most advanced engines and come up with something that is as good and does not reak of a cop out grafting and mending of a truck or Malibu engine.

To do this right GM and someone else[Lotus, BMW, Ilmore, Cosworth or other independent company] need to partner to develope this jointly. Then they can work to make it in low Volume at a profit. The engine in the flag ship is like a part of a cake. You screw up the frosting the cake no matter how good it is sucks.

what can sometimes be modular is combustion chamber design, and anything that can gain efficiency in manufacture. for example, a 2.5 four and 5.0 eight.thebottomendmightbedifferent,buttheupperscanbethesame.forgivememyspacebarjustquitonme.

[dwightlooi]

No one complained that Lotus designed the 80's ZR1 and Merc Marine built it.

While a V12 is cool I am not sure if that is the right way to go. GM needs to avoid the mistakes Benz made with the Maybach. I would hate to see GM have to offer the rebates that were offered on the Maybach. $30,000. More is not alway the solution.

I have never been a fan of graftying two engines into one. Not many great engines in history have been created that way. I am not saying they can't do it but it is difficult to get it right vs a pourpose built V12. The Slant 4 Pontiac sounded like a good idea at one time too. So did the 4.3 V6 and it was never close to right till they got the balance shafts into it.

GM needs to look at the best and most advanced engines and come up with something that is as good and does not reak of a cop out grafting and mending of a truck or Malibu engine.

To do this right GM and someone else[Lotus, BMW, Ilmore, Cosworth or other independent company] need to partner to develope this jointly. Then they can work to make it in low Volume at a profit. The engine in the flag ship is like a part of a cake. You screw up the frosting the cake no matter how good it is sucks.

Actually, it'll be a lot easier to get it right by basing it on two Malibu V6es than to design one from the ground up. The combustion chamber, the piston shape, the rods, the valves, the valve angles, the injector locations, all of that will be known, proven quantities.

The current 312hp 3.6 liter V6 making 87.5 hp/liter on 87 octane is pretty much state of the art in terms of mass production engines. No, it is not a high strung Ferrari V12, but you don't want that in a luxury car -- it won't be refined and good luck trying to find an automatic transmission compatible with its 8300 rpm shift point.

Putting the Volt motor-generator on the rear differential along with 1/4 the Volt's battery capacity will bring the V12 to about 22 mpg (Maybe even 23~24 but I am being conservative here) in a heavy 5200 lb car. Doing so also separates the motor from the transmission such that you don't have to worry about finding a tranny that will handle both the V12's 550 lb-ft and the Electric Drive's 273 combined. That is good enough. The overwhelming fraction of Ultra Luxury buyers are not extreme tree huggers. Those that are can buy something else.

As far as perception goes, nobody is ever going to look at the V12 emblem and the 12-potter under the hood and say -- oh, that's a Malibu Engine, or that's two Malibu engines.

[hyperv6]

Well if Lotus could jointly develope a engine with GM for use in the Cadillac with Lotus making use in a sports car would make for a good marketing angle.

The real question is with the big development with the new range of cars at Lotus will they get stronger or weaker? Lutz said he feels they have a 60% ability to make it. If Lotus fails in the tough world economy it would look bad on Cadillac if they had ties to them.

On the other hand GM may be able to buy them cheap? Again.

[Carguy]

Actually, it'll be a lot easier to get it right by basing it on two Malibu V6es than to design one from the ground up. The combustion chamber, the piston shape, the rods, the valves, the valve angles, the injector locations, all of that will be known, proven quantities.

The current 312hp 3.6 liter V6 making 87.5 hp/liter on 87 octane is pretty much state of the art in terms of mass production engines. No, it is not a high strung Ferrari V12, but you don't want that in a luxury car -- it won't be refined and good luck trying to find an automatic transmission compatible with its 8300 rpm shift point.

Putting the Volt motor-generator on the rear differential along with 1/4 the Volt's battery capacity will bring the V12 to about 22 mpg (Maybe even 23~24 but I am being conservative here) in a heavy 5200 lb car. Doing so also separates the motor from the transmission such that you don't have to worry about finding a tranny that will handle both the V12's 550 lb-ft and the Electric Drive's 273 combined. That is good enough. The overwhelming fraction of Ultra Luxury buyers are not extreme tree huggers. Those that are can buy something else.

As far as perception goes, nobody is ever going to look at the V12 emblem and the 12-potter under the hood and say -- oh, that's a Malibu Engine, or that's two Malibu engines.

It worked for Aston Martin and the Ford 3.0L V6 source.

[smk4565]

I think a V12 in the 5.5-6.0 liter range (like Merc's) would be better. And add two turbos to it. You want massive low end torque out of this engine. The V8 could be in the 4.0-4.5 liter range.

[dwightlooi]

It worked for Aston Martin and the Ford 3.0L V6 source.

Recalling a point made by a poster earlier in the thread, the Caddy Flagship needs to be an S-class or 760Li fighter. It shouldn't be a 150 cars a year Maybach. The engine needs to be economical to build. Sharing the pistons, rods, springs, lifters, valves, injectors, studs, you name it with a mass production V6 makes things cheaper. A V12 is nice, but realistically the car will also probably have a V8 sibling. To make the entry price more attractive, the electric portion can should probably be optional on the V8 models.

So the lineup will probably be:-

Cadillac STS eV12

600hp DOHC V12 + 149hp / 4kWh electric drive

Hydramatic 6L90E 6-speed Automatic Transmission

$120,000

Cadillac STS eV8

450hp Pushrod V8 + 149hp / 4kWh electric drive

Hydramatic 8L80E 8-speed Automatic Transmission

$90,000

Cadillac STS V8

450hp Pushrod V8

Hydramatic 8L80E 8-speed Automatic Transmission

$80,000

Edited December 18, 2010 by dwightlooi

[dwightlooi]

For that 500 a year halo car costing $250K, it shouldn't be the regular production flagship but a specialty model.

Cadillac Halo

COGAS-E (COmbined Gas And Steam - Electric Drive)

Primary Power Source: General Electric Gas Turbine Generator (150kW)

Secondary Power Source: General Electric Steam Turbine Generator (50kW)

Propulsion Motors: 4 x 149hp Electric Motors; two at each axle.

Battery: 4 kWh Li-Ion

Transmission: None

$250,000

Why plug into the electrical grid and buy power from the utilities companies when you can generate your own the same way they do and with close to the same efficiencies?

The Gas Turbine and Steam Turbines are about the size of a turbocharger BTW.

Edited December 18, 2010 by dwightlooi

[Z-06]

Can a turbine "breathe" easily beneath a bonnet? How are you going to control the air at lower speeds?

[dwightlooi]

Can a turbine "breathe" easily beneath a bonnet? How are you going to control the air at lower speeds?

I think that is one of the biggest misconceptions surrounding turbines -- that they need to breathe a lot of air. The fact is that a gas turbine making 200 hp breathes about the same amount of air as a piston engine making 200hp. It breathes the about 14~15 times as much air as the fuel it needs to burn to make 200hp. The difference here is that the 200hp piston engine is the size of large ice chest. The 200hp turbine is the size of a stack of 100 CDs. So... while a turbine sucks a lot of air for its size, but it does not suck more air than a comparably powerful piston engine. If your intake and filtration system can efficiently feed a 200hp V6, it can feed a 200hp gas turbine.

You don't really control the air. There is generally no throttle plate on a gas turbine engine. You control it by injecting more or less fuel just like in a diesel engine. When you put in more fuel, the engine initially runs slightly rich, but you also create more exhaust energy. This in turn spins the turbine faster and faster to supply more and more air. After a while the engine stabilize at a new equilibrium speed.

Another thing about turbines is that they are really efficient only at one narrow speed range. The reason being that their compression ratio is directly proportional to their rpms. They are quite in efficient when changing speeds or operating at a sub-optimal rpm. This is why using them in a series hybrid arrangement is perfect. You get to run them at the optimal speed or not at all. Instantaneous power demands are handled by the battery.

Edited December 18, 2010 by dwightlooi

[hyperv6]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/jay-leno/green-garage/4334674

There are other stories. It is a really cool car but even with some great help and a lot of money there is still some work to do.

[Robert Hall]

Well if Lotus could jointly develope a engine with GM for use in the Cadillac with Lotus making use in a sports car would make for a good marketing angle.

The real question is with the big development with the new range of cars at Lotus will they get stronger or weaker? Lutz said he feels they have a 60% ability to make it. If Lotus fails in the tough world economy it would look bad on Cadillac if they had ties to them.

On the other hand GM may be able to buy them cheap? Again.

I'm not sure why people keep going on about Lotus. Lotus uses Toyota engines in their cars.

[dwightlooi]

I'm not sure why people keep going on about Lotus. Lotus uses Toyota engines in their cars.

Lotus today is more a chassis and suspension tuning house than an engine builder. The Lotus Elise uses the Toyota 1.8 (2ZZ-GE) I4 engine from the Toyota Celica GTS. The Lotus Evora uses the Lexus 3.5 (2GR-FE) V6 from the ES350. Their future Esprit and Elan models will use the Lexus 5.0 (2UR-GSE) V8 from the IS-F and the Toyota 4.0 (1GR-FE) V6 from the... uh... FJ Cruiser / 4-Runner. Judging from the roadmap, it appears that they have given up on their indigenous engine program and have chosen instead to procure well funded, volume produced and reliable Toyota powerplants.

That's not a bad thing. It's probably the smart thing to do. But, it doesn't make them a good engine builder to partner with. If you are look for low volume engine help, Yamaha might be a better choice. Traditionally, they had worked for Ford and Volvo, but as a 3rd party contractor I doubt there is any legal or ethical loyalty to speak of.

[hyperv6]

I'm not sure why people keep going on about Lotus. Lotus uses Toyota engines in their cars.

There are two Lotus.

One is Lotus cars and the other is Lotus engineering. GM owned the engineering part. They work together but are run as two different companies the last I saw.

Kind of like Porsche Engineering and Porsche cars. They also do outside engineering work for many companies. Porsche has done a lot of work for GM we seldom hear about. The 1988 Fiero front suspension often claimed to been Lotus designed was really GM designed and tuned by Porsche Engineering. Pontiac had to remove the tail lights from the two 2.9 Turbo Fieros they built. They both lite up to say Porsche Eater across the back. Many today try to sell emblems that state the Fiero suspension was Lotus which is a false statment.

Even my LNF Turbo Ecotec has a great deal of Lotus engineering work done to it. They did a lot of work with the heads other aspects of the engine.

When GM owned Lotus Engineering the branch that did the ZR1 engine many companies stopped using them because they were affraid they may share things with GM. They never did but GM sold them since they were not getting a lot of outside buisness and needed the money.

There also really one more Lotus too. The racing branch owned by the Chapman family. They kept the rights to the team seperate from the other two branches. Today there has been a legal fight between two Lotus racing teams and the one that race last year is being replaced with the new team. They are the ones we see in F1 and Indy.

The whole Lotus thing has been a mess for years.

Lotus is only using Toyota engines not as they are reliable, affordable, light and affordable. Often Lotus has never used a full in house engine. They have made use of GM, Ford, Renault Toyota, Isuzu, Coworth and others. They would take these engines and juice them up a bit but seldom built one from scratch.

Same goes for other parts. They have used Toyota tail lights, GM airbags and other bits for years too.

I think if they went to Lotus to make an engine a V8 Chevy reworkd by Lotus with a TT turbo or such would make a exclusive engine for GM and Lotus could put it in one of their cars too. I would rather have a clean sheet engine but one has to be realistic dollar wise too. Just if they use a Chevy V8 it need to be much different than even the ZR1 and only used and offered by Cadillac at GM. It had better not be found in any other GM car.

Edited December 18, 2010 by hyperv6

[dado]

Some news from Lotus. If they are getting those numbers i wouldn't mind seeing those engines in Cadillac

New v8 and v6

So far, details given involve V8s ranging from 4.0-4.8L as well as V6s to the tune of 3.0-3.5L. But oh yes, just remember the turbo trend, Lotus plans to be apart of that too while also developing naturally aspirated version. Already Lotus says that their new V8 is 130lbs lighter than Lexus’s IS-F V8 and insiders announced that their 4.8L version is already capable of 550-600hp, which will debut in the new Esprit R. Their V6 is ready for 350hp in N/A guise and 500 in turbo.

I'm curious. How much weight does 2UR-GSE from lexus has?? Maybe 200-210 kg? So this new v8 from Lotus weight around 160-170 kg. Lighter than LS3. Don't now if Gen V will be lighter than gen IV.

[hyperv6]

Some news from Lotus. If they are getting those numbers i wouldn't mind seeing those engines in Cadillac

New v8 and v6

So far, details given involve V8s ranging from 4.0-4.8L as well as V6s to the tune of 3.0-3.5L. But oh yes, just remember the turbo trend, Lotus plans to be apart of that too while also developing naturally aspirated version. Already Lotus says that their new V8 is 130lbs lighter than Lexus’s IS-F V8 and insiders announced that their 4.8L version is already capable of 550-600hp, which will debut in the new Esprit R. Their V6 is ready for 350hp in N/A guise and 500 in turbo.

I'm curious. How much weight does 2UR-GSE from lexus has?? Maybe 200-210 kg? So this new v8 from Lotus weight around 160-170 kg. Lighter than LS3. Don't now if Gen V will be lighter than gen IV.

I think with pending CAFe rules we will see weigh cuts in all engines. Heck they are even making the Ecotec lighter and smaller so the V8 should see similar weight reductions.

In the future everything will have to be lighter, smaller or both.