Black Tuesday

[evok]

... and face the fact that I know how to sell cars.

Buickman

To GM employees, retirees, and relatives with access to GM discounts, that I will grant.

Saving GM - NFW

[ShadowDog]

As per the link given to me: http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A.../603290389/1148

It also is another signal to the United Auto Workers that everyone at GM is sharing in the automaker's drive to downsize and lower costs.

Common sense dictates they don't give a crap at the negotiating table.

GM plans to close or scale down about a dozen facilities and slash 30,000 hourly jobs by 2008. In addition, it has struck deals with the UAW to shave $1 billion from its $5.6 billion annual health care tab and to pare its blue-collar work force by offering buyouts to 113,000 North American factory workers.

Ooo, feel the sting. Unfortunately, that's a great number of jobs, and a whole lot of money spent just to get rid of said jobs. I suppose the benefit works out to there being a re-organized labour structure that will no longer include paying someone to sit in a chair and stare at the wall while they 'claim' to offer transition support. Like I figured, it'll get worse before it gets better.

While I feel for those laid off, I don't exactly worry about them if they have full pay and benefits for a few months, never mind over a year. Those folks I don't worry about at all. Those having only been employeed for a short time, well, let's hope they pick up something quick since the gravy train just got tipped over.

As for the issue of the politics and scandal, I ask if more than half-a-dozen people in this world really care? Crap, did I just open the door to discussion on conspiracy theory? Can I just offer to pull the pin on that side-car and steer hard left? Please? If that continues folks, I suggest some of its participants go into politics, where everything else that nobody who really counts in this world cares about is discussed.

Edited March 29, 2006 by ShadowDog

[Guest Josh]

Lets not resort to personal attatcks at all on anybody. This is not about who sells the most Buicks, or who has a good relationship with whom. It's about the GM job cuts and only about the GM job cuts.

[Drew Dowdell]

Lets not resort to personal attatcks at all on anybody. This is not about who sells the most Buicks, or who has a good relationship with whom. It's about the GM job cuts and only about the GM job cuts.

[The O.C.]

Not to mention, everybody that is/was let go does not have to turn their vehicles in. They get to use them for as much as a few weeks.

Where did you hear THAT?

That's NEVER been policy at GM (or any other company I'm familiar with that has company cars.) Too much liability.....

I'm more inclined to believe Evok's reports of taxis waiting outside the offices....

[The O.C.]

Why is it that I never hear anyone say leaving the automotive industry was the worst move they have ever made?  SE Michigan is in big trouble.

It's not leaving the "automotive industry" that has been a good thing.....for many of us, leaving GM (and Ford, etc.) has been THE good thing.

I quit GM in 1999 after that last big reorganization where they got rid of the divisional sales & marketing groups (when I went from a Buick employee....to an employee servicing ALL GM divisions.)

I've stayed in the automotive industry ever since.....(albeit here in southern California, not MI) and my career is going better than ever....!

BOY of boy did I make a GOOD decision way back in 1999.......I could see the writing on the WALL....!

[The O.C.]

Save the unsubstantiated claims and face the fact that I know how to sell cars.

Buickman

......yeah......Buicks.......in Flint.....

[Guest buickman]

Well my friend, do not forget I learned the business in New York where I worked for 14 years before coming to Flint. Also, I have consulted dealers nationwide who have seen resulting success. Too bad Mr Wagoner wouldn't at least try Return to Greatness. There is no cost involved and it would work to actually lower expenses.

Just imagine... what if I'm right? Profits. no need to sell GMAC, strengthening dealers, motivated employees, secure retirees, etc... And you think Wagoner has a clue? All he knows is cut, cut, cut. Hell, he can't even provide a simple earnings guidance or guarantee the financials are correct!

Buickman

[CaddyXLR-V]

Well my friend, do not forget I learned the business in New York where I worked for 14 years before coming to Flint. Also, I have consulted dealers nationwide who have seen resulting success. Too bad Mr Wagoner wouldn't at least try Return to Greatness. There is no cost involved and it would work to actually lower expenses.

Just imagine... what if I'm right? Profits. no need to sell GMAC, strengthening dealers, motivated employees, secure retirees, etc... And you think Wagoner has a clue? All he knows is cut, cut, cut. Hell, he can't even provide a simple earnings guidance or guarantee the financials are correct!

Buickman

lol you remind me of those infomercials selling miracle products. Just take this one little pill and you will lose 300lbs. I guarantee it. It can actually save you money. I think you are a great salesman, you even convinced yourself to believe that.

How about giving us the solution to GMs real troubles, like having costs that are double what its competitors costs are? Why can much smaller competitors still make money, even though GM does more than double the volume? Obviously GMs trouble is not volume. And I dont care what plan you come up with about some crazy marketing scheme, it will not get GM a 35% marketshare. The only way to do that would be amazing, and class leading products, without increasing their prices. I'm sorry, but that would take drastically lower costs, something your miracle plan does not address.

Plants would need to be closed even if GM were not losing marketshare, it's called becoming more efficient. How else can Toyota make half the cars GM does but still only have around 1/5 the workers, if not less?

Or would you be in favor of throwing away all computers just to have a team of workers figure out equations on their own? Hey more workers it must be a good thing right?

[Guest Josh]

You cannot justify why GM's troubles are double what they are when the company themselves gave tours of their plants to the Japs in the early 90's and late 90's then went to the UAW and said "The Japenese are coming, they are the new threat to us" yet sat by and did NOTHING about it.

How can you explain mismanagement throughout the late 80's early 90's and hell, the entire 90's leading right up until the early 2000's? You can't explain it, you can't explain stupidity.

GM preached years and years ago that the Japanese were coming, they knew what was about to hit them but....what was done?

You can't answer that, but I can. Nothing was done.

If you can, then answer me this.

What did GM do from 1990 up until 2000 to change their fate they face today?

[CaddyXLR-V]

You cannot justify why GM's troubles are double what they are when the company themselves gave tours of their plants to the Japs in the early 90's and late 90's then went to the UAW and said "The Japenese are coming, they are the new threat to us" yet sat by and did NOTHING about it.

How can you explain mismanagement throughout the late 80's early 90's and hell, the entire 90's leading right up until the early 2000's? You can't explain it, you can't explain stupidity.

GM preached years and years ago that the Japanese were coming, they knew what was about to hit them but....what was done?

You can't answer that, but I can. Nothing was done.

If you can, then answer me this.

What did GM do from 1990 up until 2000 to change their fate they face today?

Nothing. So the big question now is, what now? It would have been a much, much easier task to fix 15 years ago. But nothing was done. So continue to do nothing, or force everyone to accept change? You cant change the past, it's over and done with. GM has been digging itself a hole for the past 30 years. For that reason alone I give Wagoner props being able to make any positive changes at all. And to have vehicles like the GMT-900s get past the bean counters would be no small feat either.

[Guest Josh]

You give Wagoner props, yet GM has had to restate earnings for every year under his watch, most down and more damaging.

Can I manage your finances for five years?

Rick Wagoner has done nothing. At all. To help General Motors in it's current situation.

I am willing to bet the Board has made the decision to make the cuts that are now being announced while Rick is the downfall guy for them. He won't last longer than the summer of 2006. He will be gone.

You say that tantalizing product is the only thing that will save General Motors.

I've seen tantalizing product that has been put on hold and ultimately cancelled that would silence the critics. However, it was never produced or shown the light of day.

After all, the Velite initially debuted in what year as a concept? We're likely to see it in 2010.

How's that for execution?

[daves87rs]

Where did you hear THAT?

That's NEVER been policy at GM (or any other company I'm familiar with that has company cars.)  Too much liability.....

I'm more inclined to believe Evok's reports of taxis waiting outside the offices....

THat's kinda what I was thinking....

[CaddyXLR-V]

You give Wagoner props, yet GM has had to restate earnings for every year under his watch, most down and more damaging.

Can I manage your finances for five years?

Rick Wagoner has done nothing. At all. To help General Motors in it's current situation.

I am willing to be the Board has made the decision to make the cuts that are now being announced while Rick is the downfall guy for them. He won't last longer than the summer of 2006. He will be gone.

You say that tantalizing product is the only thing that will save General Motors.

I've seen tantalizing product that has been put on hold and ultimately cancelled that would silence the critics. However, it was never produced or shown the lite of day.

After all, the Velite initially debuted in what year as a concept? We're likely to see it in 2010.

How's that for execution?

Ok I admit, I havent really paid attention to the financial side lately. I give him props for making GM run as one big company, and not lots of little companies, which IMO, should have been done a very long time ago. All of the future vehicles coming out under his watch seem to be very promising, and it seems he has taken the right steps to have more attention paid to the details. I wouldn't imagine that it would be an easy task to fix 30 years of previous mistakes, and I dont expect everything to be fixed overnight.

[daves87rs]

You cannot justify why GM's troubles are double what they are when the company themselves gave tours of their plants to the Japs in the early 90's and late 90's then went to the UAW and said "The Japenese are coming, they are the new threat to us" yet sat by and did NOTHING about it.

How can you explain mismanagement throughout the late 80's early 90's and hell, the entire 90's leading right up until the early 2000's? You can't explain it, you can't explain stupidity.

GM preached years and years ago that the Japanese were coming, they knew what was about to hit them but....what was done?

You can't answer that, but I can. Nothing was done.

If you can, then answer me this.

What did GM do from 1990 up until 2000 to change their fate they face today?

1. Too big.

2. Too stupid.

3. Too old school.

You know what they say about changing with the times.......

[daves87rs]

You give Wagoner props, yet GM has had to restate earnings for every year under his watch, most down and more damaging.

Can I manage your finances for five years?

Rick Wagoner has done nothing. At all. To help General Motors in it's current situation.

I am willing to bet the Board has made the decision to make the cuts that are now being announced while Rick is the downfall guy for them. He won't last longer than the summer of 2006. He will be gone.

You say that tantalizing product is the only thing that will save General Motors.

I've seen tantalizing product that has been put on hold and ultimately cancelled that would silence the critics. However, it was never produced or shown the light of day.

After all, the Velite initially debuted in what year as a concept? We're likely to see it in 2010.

How's that for execution?

Josh, you forget that Rick has pretty much walked into this.

This was a train wreck LONG in the making...

I agree he isn't going to last long...But they really need to shred managment,

period.

Makes me wonder if Mr. K could actually do a better job. At least there would finally be some major shake ups....

The issue is that Yes, they could push the product...and it means Change-and pushing these GM employees to their limit if they want to have a job at GM....

[daves87rs]

You cannot justify why GM's troubles are double what they are when the company themselves gave tours of their plants to the Japs in the early 90's and late 90's then went to the UAW and said "The Japenese are coming, they are the new threat to us" yet sat by and did NOTHING about it.

How can you explain mismanagement throughout the late 80's early 90's and hell, the entire 90's leading right up until the early 2000's? You can't explain it, you can't explain stupidity.

GM preached years and years ago that the Japanese were coming, they knew what was about to hit them but....what was done?

You can't answer that, but I can. Nothing was done.

If you can, then answer me this.

What did GM do from 1990 up until 2000 to change their fate they face today?

NOT KILL THE OLD SCHOOL MANAGEMENT......

[Guest Josh]

I'm not one to say that Buickman is right or wrong. All I'm saying is.......it's pretty obvious that status quo is not getting the job done and hasnt since the 90's.

I don't want to hear about 30+ years of mistakes being overdone. It's not 30+ years, it's at best 10 years of mistakes being ignored because the money was "there" (or so we all thought) from GMAC.

To go back under Ricks watch and restate earnings from 2000 on up is some serious business. It's the next Enron waiting to happen.

I'll gladly challenge anybody from General Motors to dispute it. Not some "industry insider" sitting in an office behind a username and an online identity.

A GM employee to come and state why this has been happening and for so long.

Were they surviving on "borrowed time?"

Did they think it would all "work itself out?"

Was there the thought that the U.S. Goverment would bail them out?

You don't go some 5 years with accounting errors then in one quarter Q4 "uncover" it all.

It doesn't work that way.

[daves87rs]

Nothing. So the big question now is, what now? It would have been a much, much easier task to fix 15 years ago. But nothing was done. So continue to do nothing, or force everyone to accept change? You cant change the past, it's over and done with. GM has been digging itself a hole for the past 30 years. For that reason alone I give Wagoner props being able to make any positive changes at all. And to have vehicles like the GMT-900s get past the bean counters would be no small feat either.

Doesn't matter now. And they need major changes, regardless whether the employees are going to like it or not...

If they don't...someone needs to welcome them back to the real world....

Wagner can't just hope for a small dent or two....

[daves87rs]

I'm not one to say that Buickman is right or wrong. All I'm saying is.......it's pretty obvious that status quo is not getting the job done and hasnt since the 90's.

I don't want to hear about 30+ years of mistakes being overdone. It's not 30+ years, it's at best 10 years of mistakes being ignored because the money was "there" (or so we all thought) from GMAC.

To go back under Ricks watch and restate earnings from 2000 on up is some serious business. It's the next Enron waiting to happen.

I'll gladly challenge anybody from General Motors to dispute it. Not some "industry insider" sitting in an office behind a username and an online identity.

A GM employee to come and state why this has been happening and for so long.

Were they surviving on "borrowed time?"

Did they think it would all "work itself out?"

Was there the thought that the U.S. Goverment would bail them out?

You don't go some 5 years with accounting errors then in one quarter Q4 "uncover" it all.

It doesn't work that way.

It's simple Josh-it's called too stupid and dragging their feel.

They had a chance in the early 90s to make some changes, but they backed down to the UAW, and had no plan of action at all.

And they still haven't had one for years.....

[RJB]

Jerry York will be the next chairman...HA!! Well at least thats the new rumor going around that people are starting. You never know though what might happen with the boat rocking right now. 8 more people next week that I have close contact with will be next, hell maybe even me! I did hear though that it will most likely be more salary workers.

The problem is with GM is reaction time or lack of reaction time to the market and way way too much redtape to get things going. I can tell you firsthand of the endless nonsensical meetings. 'Well we didn't get anything accomplished in that meeting so we are going to have another one in an hour...' 'well that meeting didn't work either so tomorrow first thing, we are having another meeting to get this finalized'. It never ends!! My dad has been retired for about 10-12(I can't remember exactly) years from GM and they would not let him retire then(now would be different) because he had to sit in budget meetings that did not pertain to him once he was gone. It really pissed him off everyday when he went in. He loved GM too and it was his life, but he left with a little resentment and bitterness for what they did.

[Guest buickman]

In 1992 GM's Board ousted Stemple and brought a new team to lead GM, Jack Smith and the then 39 year old chief financial officer, Rick Wagoner. Tell me he hasn't been at the top? That is 14 years ago. He has been responsible for North American Operations and lost share every year. The only question is when he will be held accountable? Look at yesterday's New York Times. There is a picture from 1992 with Jack Smith at the podium. Sittiing next to him are Bill Hoglund, Louis Hughes, Harry Pearce, and "Red Ink Rick". The man has been pulled through the ranks with the goal of the top spot. He did nothing to warrant the position, in fact many I know say he was horrible as head of purchasing. He was groomed and paraded and given the position to ultimately close US production, eliminate dealers, move offshore. When one understands the Creed of Greed practiced by capitalist gone bad, the reluctance of the Board of Destructors becomes obvious. That my friends is THE REASON they refuse Return to Greatness.

From www.thetruthaboutcars.com

"The best I can do is reference Martha Mitchell. Mrs. Mitchell's husband John was the US Attorney General under Richard Nixon. Mrs. M would call Washington reporters in the middle of the night with bizarre tales of illegal activities: a secret enemies list, South American assassinations, break-ins, wiretaps, the FBI Director wearing a dress and more. By the time these reporters realized Mitchell wasn’t a crazy drunk, her husband was in jail for conspiracy, obstruction of justice and perjury. In other words, while it’s easy to dismiss Buickman’s rants as the sour fruit of a man scorned by GM’s Boy’s Club, being bitter doesn’t make a man a fool. Or, come to think of it, wrong."

Buickman

Edited March 30, 2006 by buickman

[evok]

I'm not one to say that Buickman is right or wrong. All I'm saying is.......it's pretty obvious that status quo is not getting the job done and hasnt since the 90's.

From someone that has never worked for an OEM or been involved in the auto industry, those are unsubstantiated allegations.

I don't want to hear about 30+ years of mistakes being overdone. It's not 30+ years, it's at best 10 years of mistakes being ignored because the money was "there" (or so we all thought) from GMAC.

Oh it is the mistakes of the last 30 years and the history of the last 100 that created the GM of today. Billions of dollars from GMAC and bond issues a few years ago went into the retirement obligations. If that was not done when it did, GM would not be fully funded for the next few years.

To go back under Ricks watch and restate earnings from 2000 on up is some serious business. It's the next Enron waiting to happen.

You have not even read throught the re-statements to understand what they mean or what the affect is.

I'll gladly challenge anybody from General Motors to dispute it. Not some "industry insider" sitting in an office behind a username and an online identity.  A GM employee to come and state why this has been happening and for so long.

I can say what I will from first hand experience at the General.

Were they surviving on "borrowed time?"

Did they think it would all "work itself out?"

Was there the thought that the U.S. Goverment would bail them out?

You don't go some 5 years with accounting errors then in one quarter Q4 "uncover" it all.

It doesn't work that way.

We will just have to wait and see as things unfold. It is still a little to early to speculate from my perspective. Anyone that understands what is happening is pragmatic.

[Guest Josh]

From someone that has never worked for an OEM or been involved in the auto industry, those are unsubstantiated allegations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personal attacks are not warranted or needed. Instead of using an excuse that I've never worked for an OEM (how would YOU know where my previous jobs have been, by the way?) and saying I've never involved in the auto industry (once again, something you're not so sure of) how can you say my claims are unsubstaniated?

You know, when you live in Detroit, come from a second generation UAW household, you kinda have an idea on what is going on with the company in which pays the bills.

My questions still weren't answered and GM has maintained status quo that was established in the 90's without change until as early as Q4 '05.

They saw this coming and there's no way you, or anybody else can convince me otherwise without factual evidence and not just text, but hard links to back it up.

[Flybrian]

Personal attacks are not warranted or needed.

Guys, if this is a personal attack because it questions someone's credentials...

From someone that has never worked for an OEM or been involved in the auto industry, those are unsubstantiated allegations.

Then so is this...

I'll gladly challenge anybody from General Motors to dispute it. Not some "industry insider" sitting in an office behind a username and an online identity.

Regardless of what stance you take, this is an interesting conversation. Let's not make mountains out of molehills and stick to the topic at hand.

Thanks.

[ShadowDog]

It's the next Enron waiting to happen.

From your perspective, you imply their downfall was at the hands of corruption and scandal? Enron was wasn't based on an inability to perform, it was based on the complete disregard for financial management, and lining pockets! You cannot seriously believe this is a good example to use. If GM was run like Enron, it would have been shredded apart years ago. As stated, this downturn took many years to develop, and I'm inclined to believe that the problems stated in the report are the issues at hand. While it is absolutely the responsibility of the executive management to counter against foreseen issues that would have a negative inpact on their operations, one cannot simply blanket a sole problem as the cause.

As I review it, GM coasted into this mess merely by not adapting to the necessary change in order to remain competitive. I fear change to come won't be significant until the negotiations with UAW for a new collective bargaining agreement...which will likely take a long time. I might add that their current direction to focus on higher margin vehicles will help, so long as those vehicles have the design and engineering quality the public is looking for. Not everything will fall into place. This is going to take years, so you might as well pull up a chair and continue to beak about it from your perspective. Change to crawl upward will still be under development in years to come, with or without RW at the helm.

[evok]

Personal attacks are not warranted or needed. Instead of using an excuse that I've never worked for an OEM (how would YOU know where my previous jobs have been, by the way?) and saying I've never involved in the auto industry (once again, something you're not so sure of) how can you say my claims are unsubstaniated?

You know, when you live in Detroit, come from a second generation UAW household, you kinda have an idea on what is going on with the company in which pays the bills.

My questions still weren't answered and GM has maintained status quo that was established in the 90's without change until as early as Q4 '05.

They saw this coming and there's no way you, or anybody else can convince me otherwise without factual evidence and not just text, but hard links to back it up.

LOL

[Guest Josh]

The location: A tension filled board meeting at the GM world HQ in the late 90's.

Board Member #1: "Chariman, we have exhorbant costs, our Union costs are soaring, our healthcare tab is becoming increasingly enormous not to mention the increasing assault on us from foreign compettition that we shoved to the side some two years ago, sir. Changes need to be made!"

Chariman: "LOL"

[evok]

The location: A tension filled board meeting at the GM world HQ in the late 90's.

Board Member #1: "Chariman, we have exhorbant costs, our Union costs are soaring, our healthcare tab is becoming increasingly enormous not to mention the increasing assault on us from foreign compettition that we shoved to the side some two years ago, sir. Changes need to be made!"

Chariman: "LOL"

And I might add that a wise arm chair CEO, with years of living vicariously through others real world automotive experience under his belt once stated

"GM would file for Chap 11 by the end of 2005, and you can "count on it"!"

Edited March 30, 2006 by evok

[evok]

http://cartoonbox.slate.com/hottopic/?topicid=67&image=0

[Croc]

evok, i'll let you do the honors today...

[evok]

evok, i'll let you do the honors today...

))<>((

[regfootball]

Wagoner or not, here are the things the GM execs and managers will need to commit to and buy into going forward for GM to be relevent.

-commitment to shorter product cycles and faster time to market. and I'm talking new products, not refreshes. a program from start to finish will need to be 18-24 months total from start of design to hitting the sales floor. 36-42 months will be what the public will demand or even shorter, for full model cycles. trucks, maybe 48-54 months.

-product development and manufacturing costs will need to amortized based on set, shorter schedules done in response to continuous improvement and the market, not to how long the beancounters want to stretch it out. Example, 1,000,000 engines of a set design, and then boom, new design and new tooling etc. They will need to do this to keep pace with engine and manufacturing technologies. No more '3800's in new Lucernes' just to write off more tooling cost or because its cheap to make. Develop a platform, use it for a few years and share it with as many models as possible, but then, don't milk it for ten more years. Say, we'll build 2 million units off this platform, then we'll move on. all powertrains, engines, chassis and hardware should be world class and should not be downgraded or dumbed down for America.

-learn to make desirable interiors and do it. when you look at how things fit inside a VW or a Toyota and see the quality of materials and such, GM still has a ways to go even though they are improving. GM's management needs to lay down the gauntlet and really commit to becoming relevant in interiors. Fire any beancounters or execs or managers that don't get on board with this.

-extend warranties to compete with the 4/50's and 7/100's. Also improve quality in powertrains etc. overall, even though they are already doing ok there. The public perception is still way behind.

-stop putting out ugly vehicles. set the stylists free! this is where GM can do the best, because the Asians typically hamper their designers so much in order to sacrifice for the engineers.

-fix the albatross that is union labor and legacy benefits. tough issue, but competing globally means if we want to make it here, we have to make it cheaper. The car should not have to sacrifice for the high excessive labor and benefit costs. Close plants, more if needed.

-any model should be able to be built in the US or elsewhere with little fuss, that is, flexible manufacture. common platforms and processes, global mechanicals, etc. if a plant here gets too expensive, then it should be little fuss to move production overseas to keep things in check. if we are more flexible here, then we won't need to close a plant if one model is deleted or does badly.

can't really comment on the marketing other than to say GM and Ford are not connecting with the mainstream Americans who have money. Those folks' self centered idealisms are on a new level and GM and Ford are still too caught up in the 'salt of the earth' buyers.....i.e. those who don't spend as much or as often on cars.

any execs or managers who don't buy into this? FIRE THEM ALL. get in some youth, new perspectives, people from other countries, men, women, gay, elsbian, trans, albino, Asians, Germans, Koreans, Indians, any color of skin or background, FLUSH THE TOILET and get in some folks who can GET IT DONE. Decentralize from Detroit if needed. Move to Nebraska, if needed. Move to California or Atlanta if needed. It might be time for all the GM lifers to be purged unless they can get on board with what is required to keep pace with the other makers.

Edited March 30, 2006 by regfootball

[daves87rs]

And I might add that a wise arm chair CEO, with years of living vicariously through others real world automotive experience under his belt once stated

"GM would file for Chap 11 by the end of 2005, and you can "bank on it"!"

???

[ellives]

I didn't get that one either. Who supposedly said it?

???

[97regalGS]

I didn't get that one either. Who supposedly said it?

evok believes that Josh said it.

sounds familiar to me, but i don't recall specifics.

[evok]

evok believes that Josh said it.

sounds familiar to me, but i don't recall specifics.

I don't believe:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345963

[97regalGS]

I don't believe:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345963

liar. he said "before '06" not "by end of 2005"

[gmbuoy]

I've been with GM since 1990, 1984 if you count summers, it seems to me that GM is a hell of alot different today then it was in 2002, its vastly different than 1997 and just a completely different company than it was in 1991. Now I'm not sure if the change was in me or in the company. But I do know this. The fundamental stumbling blocks we face today where planted during the 80's. Bad labor contracts(jobs bank) and bad product decisions(w-series) that have hamstrung us through the years.

For those of you kicking Rick remember he had a lot to do with Jack Smith's turn around of GM in the 90's with the GMT800 series. He approved the Cadillac turnaround. He also hired Zarella, and did the Fiat deal. Win some, lose some.

There is nobody that can steer GM through the next 18 months better than Rick. If GM is to survive Delphi needs to be settled and the jobs bank has be closed. So simple, so difficult. Any of you geniuses think you can handle Shoemaker, the Soldiers of Solidarity, the SEC, Standard and Poors, Cerberus Capital and Toyota ? I didn't think so...

[Guest buickman]

How about we simply SELL MORE CARS! Waiting in the wings with Return to Greatness.

It's a crying shame to see GM go belly up when the fix is available. Seems "Red Ink Rick" would rather go bust than try ideas from the NUMBER ONE SALESMAN IN GM HISTORY!

Buickman

Edited March 31, 2006 by buickman

[Croc]

How about we simply SELL MORE CARS!  Waiting in the wings with Return to Greatness.

Buickman

Things are a bit more complicated than that.

[Guest buickman]

Things are a bit more complicated than that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right. The powers that be are well underway in their coordinated, strategic plan to move offshore and sell on the net through factory owned distribution. This June, the truth will come to light in Wilmington:

Once more befits it that the voice of Truth,

Fearless in innocence, though leagured round

By envy and her hateful brood of hell,

Be heard amid this hall; once more befits

The patriot, whose prophetic eye so oft

Has pierced thro' faction's veil, to flash on crimes

Of deadliest import.

Buickman

[97regalGS]

How about we simply SELL MORE CARS!  Waiting in the wings with Return to Greatness.

It's a crying shame to see GM go belly up when the fix is available. Seems "Red Ink Rick" would rather go bust than try ideas from the NUMBER ONE SALESMAN IN GM HISTORY!

Buickman

why can't you go save Ford and leave GM alone!

[Croc]

You're right. The powers that be are well underway in their coordinated, strategic plan to move offshore and sell on the net through factory owned distribution.  This June, the truth will come to light in Wilmington:

Once more befits it that the voice of Truth,

Fearless in innocence, though leagured round

By envy and her hateful brood of hell,

Be heard amid this hall; once more befits

The patriot, whose prophetic eye so oft

Has pierced thro' faction's veil, to flash on crimes

Of deadliest import.

Buickman

Wow, you typed that poem up pretty quickly!

Wilmington? Ummmmm no. You really are very ignorant of the way this industry works. You should stick to discussing what you know: Buick LaCrosses and Patsy Lou kickbacks...erm..."commissions."

[Guest buickman]

What I know is that Wagoner is a crook who is going down. He is secure in the confines of the Board and institutional investors. However, misleading the small fish is a crime for which he must answer. No plan for bankruptcy? What the hell is the foolproof pension? Some surprises for "RedInk Rick". It would be better for him to resign than face the coming music.

Buickman

[Petra]

You're right. The powers that be are well underway in their coordinated, strategic plan to move offshore and sell on the net through factory owned distribution.

...Because heaven forbid a corporation in a Capitalistic society should do something that would increase their profits, while simultaneously benefiting their customers! No, we can't have that, can we?

Speaking of profits: I'm sure, if given the chance, you could go out there and increase sales by, let's say, 10%. But at what cost? How low would you have to go in pricing to be able to sell that many cars? And, if GM has to sell cars so cheaply that they cannot make a profit, how does that help GM? Heck, they already sell some models for a loss... the only thing keeping their automotive operations from going totally tits-up are those big, juicy, high profit margin SUVs. What GM needs is to get more from fewer sales, not less from more sales!

[Guest buickman]

How about more sales with less expense. It's called effective marketing utilizing proven techniques rather than proven ineffective Red Tag Sales.

Billy Durant.........Buickman

Charles Nash.......Buickman

Walter Chrysler...Buickman

Charles Mott........Buickman

Harlow Curtice.....Buickman

These men knew the business. What GM needs is someone who understands the car business and return the pencil pushers to the back office.

Jim Dollinger........Buickman

Edited March 31, 2006 by buickman

[Guest Josh]

So I was off by a year.

I anticipated Delphi to happen much, much earlier but obviously it did not.

[daves87rs]

How about we simply SELL MORE CARS!  Waiting in the wings with Return to Greatness.

It's a crying shame to see GM go belly up when the fix is available. Seems "Red Ink Rick" would rather go bust than try ideas from the NUMBER ONE SALESMAN IN GM HISTORY!

Buickman

Mmm..no.

We need better cars, not more cars.

Unless you really want to sell piles of s**t....

[regfootball]

You're right. The powers that be are well underway in their coordinated, strategic plan to move offshore and sell on the net through factory owned distribution.  This June, the truth will come to light in Wilmington:

Once more befits it that the voice of Truth,

Fearless in innocence, though leagured round

By envy and her hateful brood of hell,

Be heard amid this hall; once more befits

The patriot, whose prophetic eye so oft

Has pierced thro' faction's veil, to flash on crimes

Of deadliest import.

Buickman

it would be nice not to have to vist a dealership to get a car. most folks can't stand going to one, anyways. I'm all for purchasing factory direct. All I want to do is test drive it. I don't want to have some dude who sits and smokes outside in the lot ask me all sorts of useless questions and then harass me about what i should like and what i should not like. I want to drive the car and talk to the man in charge of the money. I want the best deal on the table right now, I've only got 15 minutes to discuss it. I'm not going to 'bring the kids'.

Imagine a world where you simply go check out some keys to test drive a demo model with no hassle, and then order your car to the specs you want, and boom, its there a couple days later, delivered to your door. No having to pad Denny Hecker's or the Luther's pockets. that would be nice. Think of all the prime real estate that could be redeveloped for real uses like housing and such, rather than big open wastelands of cars rotting on dealer lots.

Edited March 31, 2006 by regfootball